UK Benefits Farce.

[7by7]

1) Not paying tax and/or NICs is not necessarily a crime. It depends on circumstances; not earning enough for example.

2) No A&E department will turn an emergency away; but may tell someone who strolls in with with a minor, non emergency problem to go and see their GP instead.

Initial treatment in an A&E department is free to all; but any follow up treatment is chargeable unless one is eligible for free treatment; e.g. a (legal) UK resident. Though admittedly not all hospitals are as thorough in checking this as they should be.

Anyone presenting themselves at an A&E department is asked for their details; name, address, name of GP at least. It may very well raise doubts if the patient is unable to provide these; doubts which cause the staff to contact the police or other authority.

But even if some illegals on the run from the authorities are getting free A&E treatment if ill without getting reported to the authorities, it is a gross exaggeration to say that this means half a million lost illegals in the UK are "milking....(the system)."

3) As shown, obtaining settlement for extended family members is next to impossible.

We have looked into this for my wife's twin sister, including seeking advice from a professional. My own research and the advice of that professional shows that she does not meet the strict eligibility requirements listed above. So it's not worth paying the £2141 application fee only to be refused.

Yes, £2141. For each extended family member. Even were it possible, it's expensive. A fee way over cost, based on UKVI's own figures. A nice little earner for the Treasury.

So jpinx, if you know of any loopholes which mean she can come to the UK to live with us, particularly any which will avoid paying a £2141 fee, I will be very glad to hear of them.

Plus, of course, the loopholes which mean she'll be supported by the state once she's here.

Edited January 7, 2016 by 7by7

[jpinx]

Illegal immigrants who are already in the country are well-known to share an identity with a legal counterpart. So first thing you can do is possibly double the numbers of immigrants in the "system". There's lots more, but not material to be broadcast on a public forum.

[loppylugs1]

Until the issuance of ID cards,illegals will always find ways around any barriers,food banks for one will keep them fed,but it is crime that is what they will descend to, to support themselves,shoplifting burglary,muggings,anything to keep themselves afloat

Looking at those..... in Calais,is there any reason to believe that any one of them is capable of meaningful work,just scum,through and through

[jpinx]

Until the issuance of ID cards,illegals will always find ways around any barriers,food banks for one will keep them fed,but it is crime that is what they will descend to, to support themselves,shoplifting burglary,muggings,anything to keep themselves afloat

Looking at those..... in Calais,is there any reason to believe that any one of them is capable of meaningful work,just scum,through and through

I'll not tar them all with the same brush, but even a cursory glance at the information available from the various "support agencies" shows an ugly picture. I am very sorry for the genuine cases -- they are caught up in a horrible messy situation and I hope their cases are treated sympathetically.

[jpinx]

1) Not paying tax and/or NICs is not necessarily a crime. It depends on circumstances; not earning enough for example.

2) No A&E department will turn an emergency away; but may tell someone who strolls in with with a minor, non emergency problem to go and see their GP instead.

Initial treatment in an A&E department is free to all; but any follow up treatment is chargeable unless one is eligible for free treatment; e.g. a (legal) UK resident. Though admittedly not all hospitals are as thorough in checking this as they should be.

Anyone presenting themselves at an A&E department is asked for their details; name, address, name of GP at least. It may very well raise doubts if the patient is unable to provide these; doubts which cause the staff to contact the police or other authority.

But even if some illegals on the run from the authorities are getting free A&E treatment if ill without getting reported to the authorities, it is a gross exaggeration to say that this means half a million lost illegals in the UK are "milking....(the system)."

3) As shown, obtaining settlement for extended family members is next to impossible.

We have looked into this for my wife's twin sister, including seeking advice from a professional. My own research and the advice of that professional shows that she does not meet the strict eligibility requirements listed above. So it's not worth paying the £2141 application fee only to be refused.

Yes, £2141. For each extended family member. Even were it possible, it's expensive. A fee way over cost, based on UKVI's own figures. A nice little earner for the Treasury.

So jpinx, if you know of any loopholes which mean she can come to the UK to live with us, particularly any which will avoid paying a £2141 fee, I will be very glad to hear of them.

Plus, of course, the loopholes which mean she'll be supported by the state once she's here.

*Twin* sister ??? You've got it made

[7by7]

jpinx,

Your ridiculous, insulting reply above proves that you know nothing about the loopholes you claim exist, and that they exist only in your imagination and the imagination of those others who moan about immigration without actually checking the facts.

Of course the government doesn't help when it panders to the perception of the public, perceptions fed by the Mail and similar media, by promising to crack down on the imagined abuses of the system by immigrants rather than educating the public about the reality.

Edited January 8, 2016 by 7by7

[7by7]

See my previous posts above.

[jpinx]

jpinx,

Your ridiculous, insulting reply above proves that you know nothing about the loopholes you claim exist, and that they exist only in your imagination and the imagination of those others who moan about immigration without actually checking the facts.

Of course the government doesn't help when it panders to the perception of the public, perceptions fed by the Mail and similar media, by promising to crack down on the imagined abuses of the system by immigrants rather than educating the public about the reality.

No insult was intended -- merely a reference to the methods used by other, less-scrupulous individuals who would not hesitate to "import" the twin sister and share an identity. If you are unaware of the sheer numbers of identity thefts involved, I can only supply you with some easily googled results on the numbers involved. These are restricted to identity thefts which have been reported -- goodness knows how many more there are.

http://www.actionfraud.police.uk/Identity_fraud_continues_to_rise_with_4_million_victims_in_UK_alone

[jpinx]

jpinx,

Your ridiculous, insulting reply above proves that you know nothing about the loopholes you claim exist, and that they exist only in your imagination and the imagination of those others who moan about immigration without actually checking the facts.

Of course the government doesn't help when it panders to the perception of the public, perceptions fed by the Mail and similar media, by promising to crack down on the imagined abuses of the system by immigrants rather than educating the public about the reality.

What's the reality then, tell all...?

The reality is over 4 million identities reported stolen, many more have gone unreported. The checks in place to confirm someone's identity are insufficient to unmask the users of well-prepared fake ID's complete with an NI number, for which immigrants are happy to pay, in the same way as they paid for their illegal passage into the country. Talk to anyone who has experience of places like the Calais camp and they will tell you of the "agents" selling a "package" of tickets and an ID to get into and established in UK. Once they are in there is no waiting period, their ID is already good and they just claim what they need.

No-one in the ghettos will talk about this, but if it is not true - why do the numbers not tally?

In case you are unaware of just how big an industry it is, check out the reference to the forums in this piece...

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-32890979

Edited January 8, 2016 by jpinx

[SgtRock]

Identity theft of dead babies has been going on from the 70's.

Might have been earlier, just going on what I know.

[Liquorice]

1) Not paying tax and/or NICs is not necessarily a crime. It depends on circumstances; not earning enough for example.

2) No A&E department will turn an emergency away; but may tell someone who strolls in with with a minor, non emergency problem to go and see their GP instead.

Initial treatment in an A&E department is free to all; but any follow up treatment is chargeable unless one is eligible for free treatment; e.g. a (legal) UK resident. Though admittedly not all hospitals are as thorough in checking this as they should be.

Anyone presenting themselves at an A&E department is asked for their details; name, address, name of GP at least. It may very well raise doubts if the patient is unable to provide these; doubts which cause the staff to contact the police or other authority.

But even if some illegals on the run from the authorities are getting free A&E treatment if ill without getting reported to the authorities, it is a gross exaggeration to say that this means half a million lost illegals in the UK are "milking....(the system)."

3) As shown, obtaining settlement for extended family members is next to impossible.

We have looked into this for my wife's twin sister, including seeking advice from a professional. My own research and the advice of that professional shows that she does not meet the strict eligibility requirements listed above. So it's not worth paying the £2141 application fee only to be refused.

Yes, £2141. For each extended family member. Even were it possible, it's expensive. A fee way over cost, based on UKVI's own figures. A nice little earner for the Treasury.

So jpinx, if you know of any loopholes which mean she can come to the UK to live with us, particularly any which will avoid paying a £2141 fee, I will be very glad to hear of them.

Plus, of course, the loopholes which mean she'll be supported by the state once she's here.

Your correct by the written Immigration rules.

However if you seriously wanted your wife's sister to live in the UK, you find her a husband with British citizenship who meets the financial requirements.

Hundreds of Asians do this year on year. Until 4/5 years ago it was only a 2 year route to get ILR.

'Arranged marriages' are still the norm for many Asian cultures, although deemed illegal by the UK.

That doesn't stop them from providing the proof the UKBA are looking for, although that proof may be fraudulently obtained.

The UKBA may suspect fraud, but if they cannot prove it, they have to approve the Visa to avoid being called racist and discriminating.

The foreign Immigrant may not be able to claim benefits for a number of years, with the exception of Child allowance, which can be claimed by the British spouse.

The British government may have squeezed the numbers of overseas Immigrants coming to the UK and lengthened the period to which they are eligible to claim benefits, but until they leave the EU and stop being dictated to about their Immigration policies and the freedom of movement of Europeans, they will never be able to control their borders to have sufficient impact on Immigration and benefit claimants.

[7by7]

Jpinx, people do use stolen identities to claim benefits, and that, like all identity theft and fraud, is a criminal offence.

But what has that to do with the myth of loopholes which allow immigrants to legally receive benefits the rules say they are not entitled to and bring their extended families into the UK to do the same?

[jacky54]

Jpinx, people do use stolen identities to claim benefits, and that, like all identity theft and fraud, is a criminal offence.

But what has that to do with the myth of loopholes which allow immigrants to legally receive benefits the rules say they are not entitled to and bring their extended families into the UK to do the same?

According to my mate's wife, herself an illegal immigrant they do.. When the home office caught her she had a very nice council flat, a NI number and a job working for a refugee agency. Before that she had claimed under a false name. After her asylum claim was laughably granted she worked for the home office processing asylum claims, eventually gave that up as she was sick of the lies and the pressure of work, 7 days a week at one point. According to her 95% of asylum claims are fake and it's easy to claim benefits using false information. She ought to know, now she sits on her bum living off the rent from the property she bought in London with the help of 16k the housing assoc gave her for moving out, even though she was never entitled to the place as her application was illegal as she had no right to stay in the UK. This is going back 15 years but she says if anything people abusing the system is worse now.

Edited January 9, 2016 by jacky54

[7by7]

Faz,

Arranged marriages are not illegal in the UK. Forced marriages are.

Although the Primary Purpose Rule was abolished many years ago, applicants for a spouse/partner settlement visa still have to show that their relationship with their British/UK resident spouse/partner is genuine and subsisting and not a marriage of convenience.

Even so, marriages of convenience do exist and some people successfully use them to enter the UK, no one is denying that. One of the reasons for raising the residential qualifying time for ILR to five years was to combat this. Though, of course, no measure to counter visa fraud is going to be 100% successful.

ECOs decide visa applications on the evidence provided by sponsor and applicant. The onus is on applicant and sponsor to satisfy the ECO that all the requirements are met.

If they fail to do so then the application will be refused.

If the ECO has reason to believe that false representations have been made or false documents have been submitted (whether or not material to the application, whether or not to the applicant’s knowledge and irrespective of the applicant’s age or the category of visa sought), or material facts have not been disclosed. fraud then that application will be refused. Furthermore, the applicant could face a lifetime ban from the UK.

See Immigration Statistics: entry clearance visas granted outside the UK for the applications/granted/refused figures.

The EU does not dictate to the British government on immigration from outside the EEA.

The UK government alone sets the UK's immigration rules.

The EEA freedom of movement regulations and the treaties which led to them are a different matter.

BTW, approx. 1.5 million British citizens use those regulations to live in other EEA countries.

[7by7]

jacky54,

So your mate married an illegal immigrant who used identity fraud to get a NI number, job, council flat etc. and, as you say, illegally abuse the system

Did he assist her in this illegal activity?

Were aware of it and if so why did you not report it to the relevant authority?

Even if any of it is true, you are talking about illegal activities, not legal loopholes.

[jacky54]

jacky54,

So your mate married an illegal immigrant who used identity fraud to get a NI number, job, council flat etc. and, as you say, illegally abuse the system

Did he assist her in this illegal activity?

Were aware of it and if so why did you not report it to the relevant authority?

Even if any of it is true, you are talking about illegal activities, not legal loopholes.

He married her as a soft liberal fool to help her stay in the country. He subsequently regrets it, but at least he did not change his religion to do so (she is a Muslim)

[jpinx]

Jpinx, people do use stolen identities to claim benefits, and that, like all identity theft and fraud, is a criminal offence.

But what has that to do with the myth of loopholes which allow immigrants to legally receive benefits the rules say they are not entitled to and bring their extended families into the UK to do the same?

ok -- I see now that we are using a different interpretation of "loophole". Looholes are NOT legal -- or, at best, are deviously devised to deliberately circumvent the laws applicable. Such activities are chased down by the taxman, but not sure how vigilant the immigation people are, especially seeing as they are pretty much swamped nowadays anyway.

For the avoidance of future confusion -- loopholes are illegal.

Edited January 9, 2016 by jpinx

[Liquorice]

Faz,

Arranged marriages are not illegal in the UK. Forced marriages are.

Although the Primary Purpose Rule was abolished many years ago, applicants for a spouse/partner settlement visa still have to show that their relationship with their British/UK resident spouse/partner is genuine and subsisting and not a marriage of convenience.

Even so, marriages of convenience do exist and some people successfully use them to enter the UK, no one is denying that. One of the reasons for raising the residential qualifying time for ILR to five years was to combat this. Though, of course, no measure to counter visa fraud is going to be 100% successful.

ECOs decide visa applications on the evidence provided by sponsor and applicant. The onus is on applicant and sponsor to satisfy the ECO that all the requirements are met.

If they fail to do so then the application will be refused.

If the ECO has reason to believe that false representations have been made or false documents have been submitted (whether or not material to the application, whether or not to the applicant’s knowledge and irrespective of the applicant’s age or the category of visa sought), or material facts have not been disclosed. fraud then that application will be refused. Furthermore, the applicant could face a lifetime ban from the UK.

See Immigration Statistics: entry clearance visas granted outside the UK for the applications/granted/refused figures.

The EU does not dictate to the British government on immigration from outside the EEA.

The UK government alone sets the UK's immigration rules.

The EEA freedom of movement regulations and the treaties which led to them are a different matter.

BTW, approx. 1.5 million British citizens use those regulations to live in other EEA countries.

'Arranged' in inverted comas because they are by all intents and purposes forced marriages. The families choose the brides and grooms in many cultures and religions. If one objects they bring shame on the family and are cast aside by the family.

In most cases the intended couple will have met once, but not stayed together. It's not difficult to falsify the proof of an genuine and subsisting relationship when you know what is being sought by the UKBA. Family and friends will unite to provide such proof.

I know all about the Immigration rules and after working in and around ethnic minorities in the UK, I know just how they circumvent the rules to continue to bring family members to the UK, including new wife's and husbands. These ethnic minorities are UK nationals by birth or naturalisation.

As British citizens they are also EU citizens.

There is the current case of Mrs Begum and her children http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/turkey/11804512/British-widow-who-left-the-UK-to-join-Isil-now-stranded-in-Turkey-and-desperate-to-come-home.html who are British citizens but being refused entry back to the UK.

They EU has already informed the British government they are illegally refusing entry to an EU citizen......watch this space.

I personally knew Mrs Begum and her family from Manchester as one of the clients of the charity I worked for.

They lived entirely on State Benefits and that is probably the real reason the UK is refusing entry, because she will have to be rehoused and benefits reinstated.

I'm in agreement with the government, but they will be overruled by the EU courts if they persist.

I know about the reciprocal agreements between EU states and Benefits.

My son in law was stationed in Germany with the British military for many years. My daughter received Child allowance payments from both the British and German governments, even though she never made a claim in Germany. She felt guilty and complained but was told it was correct.

What a farce and absolute abuse of taxpayers money.

I'm first to agree foreign overseas nationals are entitled no recourse to public funds. But after attaining ILR they soon get British citizenship, get access to public funds, then as a British and EU national sponsor other family members to join them.

The British government may have delayed this process from 2 to 5 years for overseas Immigrants, but they cannot control the flow of European migrants who live, even limited, on the Welfare system the UK provides, which in many cases is better than their own Country.

Take Poland as an example.

Edited January 9, 2016 by Faz

[Liquorice]

jacky54,

So your mate married an illegal immigrant who used identity fraud to get a NI number, job, council flat etc. and, as you say, illegally abuse the system

Did he assist her in this illegal activity?

Were aware of it and if so why did you not report it to the relevant authority?

Even if any of it is true, you are talking about illegal activities, not legal loopholes.

Only the Job Centre will ask for proof of ID for a NI number.

If you ring DWP direct they will issue a NI number based on your name and address without any proof of ID.

Once you have a NI number, most employers don't ask for proof of status or the right to work.

Your in the system and working, easy as that.

[loppylugs1]

There are positive aspects to cultural differences,for instance honour killings. Now the CPS in the NW of the UK,fact is anywhere in the UK is stuffed with Muslims and up to a few years ago a white defendant facing a Muslim prosecutor and all white jury found it virtually impossible to gain a conviction.

Regarding honour killings the CPS in NW UK took it on themselves to focus on the honour killings issue over more pressing matters,Sanders the boss(white)CPS was kicked upstairs,but certainly there was widespread distrust over Muslim issues being brought to the front

I went on Twitter to defend their customs and practices,stating the issue was better than sliced bread,only for a chief inspector from Paddington Green cop shop intervening,yes hell and fury,Yahoo ditched me,all sorts of problems with comp,and sure Id be in court for stating the obvious if in the UK,all good stuff

[7by7]

Jpinx, people do use stolen identities to claim benefits, and that, like all identity theft and fraud, is a criminal offence.

But what has that to do with the myth of loopholes which allow immigrants to legally receive benefits the rules say they are not entitled to and bring their extended families into the UK to do the same?

ok -- I see now that we are using a different interpretation of "loophole". Looholes are NOT legal -- or, at best, are deviously devised to deliberately circumvent the laws applicable. Such activities are chased down by the taxman, but not sure how vigilant the immigation people are, especially seeing as they are pretty much swamped nowadays anyway.

For the avoidance of future confusion -- loopholes are illegal.

Collins English Dictionary:

Loophole

noun

1. an ambiguity, omission, etc, as in a law, by which one can avoid a penalty or responsibility

British English: loophole A loophole in the law is a small mistake which allows people to do something that would otherwise be illegal.

So when you talked about 'loopholes' I naturally assumed you knew what the word actually meant!

[jpinx]

Jpinx, people do use stolen identities to claim benefits, and that, like all identity theft and fraud, is a criminal offence.

But what has that to do with the myth of loopholes which allow immigrants to legally receive benefits the rules say they are not entitled to and bring their extended families into the UK to do the same?

ok -- I see now that we are using a different interpretation of "loophole". Looholes are NOT legal -- or, at best, are deviously devised to deliberately circumvent the laws applicable. Such activities are chased down by the taxman, but not sure how vigilant the immigation people are, especially seeing as they are pretty much swamped nowadays anyway.

For the avoidance of future confusion -- loopholes are illegal.

Collins English Dictionary:

Loophole

noun

1. an ambiguity, omission, etc, as in a law, by which one can avoid a penalty or responsibility

British English: loophole A loophole in the law is a small mistake which allows people to do something that would otherwise be illegal.

So when you talked about 'loopholes' I naturally assumed you knew what the word actually meant!

Not to split hairs, but,,,

"means of evasion/avoidance, means of escape, escape clause, escape route;

ambiguity, omission, inadequacy, flaw, fault, defect, crack, inconsistency, discrepancy, shortcoming, slip.... "

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english-thesaurus/loophole

The question is whether you consider it legal to take an action by means of avoidance, which produces a result with is illegal.

[7by7]

None of the above show that taking advantage of a loophole in the law is illegal; because it isn't.

Ask Starbucks, for example!

Edited January 9, 2016 by 7by7

[jpinx]

None of the above show that taking advantage of a loophole in the law is illegal; because it isn't.

Ask Starbucks, for example!

I know what you mean - but Starbucks and others are now being investigated because the result was "illegal" (not enough tax paid).

A person being paid whatever benefit because they managed to get past a lax DHSS system is illegal -- call it a loophole or not. We're only chewing semantics here, immigrants need to be identified and processed correctly, or the result is an illegal immigrant - simple. Ask Mrs Merkel -- now having to eat her words with asylum seekers behaving badly.

[7by7]

jacky54,

So your mate married an illegal immigrant who used identity fraud to get a NI number, job, council flat etc. and, as you say, illegally abuse the system

Did he assist her in this illegal activity?

Were aware of it and if so why did you not report it to the relevant authority?

Even if any of it is true, you are talking about illegal activities, not legal loopholes.

Only the Job Centre will ask for proof of ID for a NI number.

If you ring DWP direct they will issue a NI number based on your name and address without any proof of ID.

Once you have a NI number, most employers don't ask for proof of status or the right to work.

Your in the system and working, easy as that.

Considering your claimed expertise, your ignorance of the law is astounding!

You cannot apply for a NI number at a Job Centre; you have to apply by phone.

A selection of applicants are required to attend an identity interview. I don't know the percentage; but my wife was required to attend one when she applied for hers 16 years ago.

See Apply for a National Insurance number.

All employers are legally obliged to check that all potential employees have the legal right to work in the UK, whether they have a NI number or not; see Check a job applicant's 'right to work' documents

The penalties for not carrying out this check or for employing illegal workers include a fine of £20,00o per illegal employee; see Penalties for employing illegal workers

Under the Immigration Act 2014, landlords will soon be required to carry out similar checks on their tenants; New immigration checks for agents and landlords

jpinx, Starbucks and similar have been investigated to see if the tax loopholes they exploited were legal; as far as I am aware they were at the time.

But you originally claimed that immigrants were exploiting loopholes to legally claim benefits they otherwise would not be entitled to and to legally bring their extended family into the UK. This, as has been proven, is not the case.

I have no idea what immigration law in Germany has to do with this subject. Germany and the UK have different laws, so the situation in Germany is irrelevant to that in the UK.

[jpinx]

jacky54,

So your mate married an illegal immigrant who used identity fraud to get a NI number, job, council flat etc. and, as you say, illegally abuse the system

Did he assist her in this illegal activity?

Were aware of it and if so why did you not report it to the relevant authority?

Even if any of it is true, you are talking about illegal activities, not legal loopholes.

Only the Job Centre will ask for proof of ID for a NI number.

If you ring DWP direct they will issue a NI number based on your name and address without any proof of ID.

Once you have a NI number, most employers don't ask for proof of status or the right to work.

Your in the system and working, easy as that.

Considering your claimed expertise, your ignorance of the law is astounding!

You cannot apply for a NI number at a Job Centre; you have to apply by phone.

A selection of applicants are required to attend an identity interview. I don't know the percentage; but my wife was required to attend one when she applied for hers 16 years ago.

See Apply for a National Insurance number.

All employers are legally obliged to check that all potential employees have the legal right to work in the UK, whether they have a NI number or not; see Check a job applicant's 'right to work' documents

The penalties for not carrying out this check or for employing illegal workers include a fine of £20,00o per illegal employee; see Penalties for employing illegal workers

Under the Immigration Act 2014, landlords will soon be required to carry out similar checks on their tenants; New immigration checks for agents and landlords

jpinx, Starbucks and similar have been investigated to see if the tax loopholes they exploited were legal; as far as I am aware they were at the time.

But you originally claimed that immigrants were exploiting loopholes to legally claim benefits they otherwise would not be entitled to and to legally bring their extended family into the UK. This, as has been proven, is not the case.

I have no idea what immigration law in Germany has to do with this subject. Germany and the UK have different laws, so the situation in Germany is irrelevant to that in the UK.

ok -- last comment from me about loopholes . I have never said that people LEGALLY claim anything by exploiting a loophole. By it's nature, a claim made by virtue of a loophole is illegal.

It's unclear what the issue is now - we have established a difference of interpretation of the word loophole, but the fact remains that by virtue of numerous methods of avoiding the proper procedure, claims are being made and paid to people who are not entitled. If there is proof that no such situation exists it would be interesting to read the links.

[7by7]

OK, I accept that your interpretation of the word 'loophole' in this context differs from that published in every dictionary.

The fact remains that an immigrant's entitlement to public funds is extremely limited; even those from EEA countries are not entitled to as much as the general public seem to believe.

I am not disputing that benefit fraud is a problem. It is a crime and anyone who knows, or suspects that, someone is committing it can report it anonymously here,

But, as acknowledged earlier in this topic, it is not a crime restricted to immigrants, legal or otherwise. Most offenders are white British.

However, as is obvious from the OP onwards, some people here are not interested in that; they simply want to have yet another dig at immigrants in general and Muslims, British or not, in particular.

[jpinx]

OK, I accept that your interpretation of the word 'loophole' in this context differs from that published in every dictionary.

The fact remains that an immigrant's entitlement to public funds is extremely limited; even those from EEA countries are not entitled to as much as the general public seem to believe.

I am not disputing that benefit fraud is a problem. It is a crime and anyone who knows, or suspects that, someone is committing it can report it anonymously here,

But, as acknowledged earlier in this topic, it is not a crime restricted to immigrants, legal or otherwise. Most offenders are white British.

However, as is obvious from the OP onwards, some people here are not interested in that; they simply want to have yet another dig at immigrants in general and Muslims, British or not, in particular.

Please don't tar me with the bigot-brush... http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/882388-uk-benefits-farce/#entry10249172

[chiang mai]

Jpinx, people do use stolen identities to claim benefits, and that, like all identity theft and fraud, is a criminal offence.

But what has that to do with the myth of loopholes which allow immigrants to legally receive benefits the rules say they are not entitled to and bring their extended families into the UK to do the same?

According to my mate's wife, herself an illegal immigrant they do.. When the home office caught her she had a very nice council flat, a NI number and a job working for a refugee agency. Before that she had claimed under a false name. After her asylum claim was laughably granted she worked for the home office processing asylum claims, eventually gave that up as she was sick of the lies and the pressure of work, 7 days a week at one point. According to her 95% of asylum claims are fake and it's easy to claim benefits using false information. She ought to know, now she sits on her bum living off the rent from the property she bought in London with the help of 16k the housing assoc gave her for moving out, even though she was never entitled to the place as her application was illegal as she had no right to stay in the UK. This is going back 15 years but she says if anything people abusing the system is worse now.

"According to her 95% of asylum claims are fake" - as if she would know such things, and as if such things would be openly allowed, all nonsense - the bloke on the next bar stool told me it was 96.5%!

[MAJIC]

jacky54,

So your mate married an illegal immigrant who used identity fraud to get a NI number, job, council flat etc. and, as you say, illegally abuse the system

Did he assist her in this illegal activity?

Were aware of it and if so why did you not report it to the relevant authority?

Even if any of it is true, you are talking about illegal activities, not legal loopholes.

Why do people commit fraud to obtain a NI number? it's issued free on application,in a matter of weeks, and perfectly legal too.Are they illegal immigrants ?