Phuket property glut?

[sebastion]

there is no doubt there is a property glut in Phuket in spite of what some posters here say as they obviously have a vested interest in saying so

they like to talk things up ( probably in the hope of getting a naive newcomer to sign a buying contract )

too much overbuilding , poor infrastructure , no rule of law , daily hazards unknown in the west , many many more - but we who live here know the truth

my neighbors have several nice beach side properties to rent ...1 bedroom unoccupied 8 months...2 bedroom unoccupied 7 months...3 bedroom unoccupied 13 months - another neighbor let her 3 bedroom to a teacher family with a 20% rent discount & 15% discount on water, electric & internet...but some here persist in continually talking up the market here.. they have their reasons but there is such a thing as " look out of the window " economics ,,,so look out the window & see reality

i just came back from a swim at the beach ~ it's only a 5-6 minute walk away, plus I also have a nice swimming pool here & a roomy place ~ all for a very reasonable rent....so why buy !

the $$$ I don't spend on property ownership here is far better employed making real money protected by rule of law in a jurisdiction where justice prevails so like NKMan I prefer to sleep peacefully at night knowing I've invested smartly

but if you want to gamble it's your choice

I think you failed to read the replies.

Nobody is disagreeing about the property slump in Phuket but most, like me bought when prices were low 10-12 years ago.

We arent affected by the slump due to the fact prices have risen for the land alone.

If i tried to sell my properties for 30% more than i paid its still under market value.

Stop trying to bang home your agenda when nobody is disagreeing. We get your point already.

[Renter]

sounds as though you'd have been better off investing in a jurisdiction similar to where I'm profitably invested

[phuketandsee]

A glut now? Wait and see what happens when/if serious civil strife breaks out? Doom and gloom? You better believe it.

Edited January 6, 2016 by phuketandsee

[LivinginKata]

A glut now? Wait and see what happens when/if serious civil strife breaks out? Doom and gloom? You better believe it.

I have no doubt about. After the red/yellow strife a few years ago I restructured our finances well away from Thailand. We could leave Thailand immediately and live well in another SE Asia country. Singapore would be my first choice ...

[Renter]

Yes..... phuketandsee & LivinginKata-----this is something we shouldn't ignore

anything is possible in this crazy world

should something like this ever happen undoubtedly the "Phuket property spruikers" who keep surfacing here will tell us all........it's a great BUYING opportunity

[LivinginKata]

Yes..... phuketandsee & LivinginKata-----this is something we shouldn't ignore

anything is possible in this crazy world

should something like this ever happen undoubtedly the "Phuket property spruikers" who keep surfacing here will tell us all........it's a great BUYING opportunity

Spruikers ... I had to Google that ---> https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/spruiker

[phuketandsee]

Come the revolution the spruikers will be the first for the chop

[Renter]

" spruiker " it's a word my Australian friend used ( he's since relocated to Vietnam )

He was a condo owner here for 3 years & did manage to make a small profit on his property

[KarenBravo]

I made profit three ways when I sold property.

Rent saved.

Capital appreciation.

Exchange rate.

[phuketrichard]

i made a ton when i sold as i brought my land when the baht was 50!!!

sold it the baht was 32

rent free for 9 years

land value went from 1 rai at 800,000 to 5 million/!!

[KarenBravo]

i made a ton when i sold as i brought my land when the baht was 50!!!

sold it the baht was 32

rent free for 9 years

land value went from 1 rai at 800,000 to 5 million/!!

Whoa! That post is not going to make you very popular with quite a few posters.

[LivinginKata]

i made a ton when i sold as i brought my land when the baht was 50!!!

sold it the baht was 32

rent free for 9 years

land value went from 1 rai at 800,000 to 5 million/!!

I guess you are talking US$. I have not faired so well with exchange rates. When I settled here and transferred my swag money the rate was 36 baht to the GBP. It's never been near that again. Those that transferred in the late 90s got 90 baht to the GBP (and 50 to the US$). So am still down on that FX front, mind you I have done well on land appreciation, so it balances out (and more).

You can't say land went from x grand to x million, much depends on the location and year. In Patong our lands are worth 10 times more over 17 years. Kata only double over only 7 years. The land prices saturated about 5 years ago. I see then being static for a long time, even going down for a quick sale.

[phuketrichard]

....and value went from 1 rai at 800,000 to 5 million/!!

you can't say land went from x grand to x million, much depends on the location and year.

My land in Kamala, brought in 1999 sold in 2009

[LivinginKata]

....and value went from 1 rai at 800,000 to 5 million/!!

you can't say land went from x grand to x million, much depends on the location and year.

My land in Kamala, brought in 1999 sold in 2009

You sold at the very best time/year ...

[Pinot]

Its exactly because of Pinot's point of view, shared by many here, that property ownership can make sense. Plenty want to come here, retire here and enjoy while "by God no, never invest anything"'; so the few that do can ha, realize nice rental income from those very naysayers. The key is to have a special and quiet place, not just a me too, "nie houe". In time that very bunch will have their ah ever so "safe" assets taxed back in their foreign countries regardless where they live, just like the US is setting the global trend on that of late. Mind you, one of the biggest property bust of all times was cooked up right in the US not so long ago.

I see many single family rental properties around me that are currently empty. I've never seen that before this time of year. Empty now means they're going to be empty for the year and possibly years. No, nice rental income is no longer possible. I moved out of a 3br/2ba condo with pools, a beautiful place for 25000/mo. It's been rented for a total of about a month in the last year. Renters are scarce.

There is a tremendous glut of property and there is no reason to buy anything here.

The sad thing is there are literally 1000's of additional units in the pipeline.

You're sadly mistaken if you believe there are rental property buying opportunities in Phuket.

Everyone I know who bought here has already sold for a loss or buried under a loss and can't sell.

I rent a beautiful 2br/2ba house five minutes from the beach for 13000 baht/mo. The landlord can't do enough for us. He knows the value of a long term client and treats us accordingly. I've even made structural changes to the place, that I paid for. I'll get taken out of this place in a box. But then again, someone could put in a pig farm next door, with these zoning laws. Point is, I have the flexibility to do whatever I want at a ridiculous price. Buy a place and you're stuck.

No one is buying anything here.

13000 baht is $360/mo. I came from San Francisco. I couldn't rent a garage space for $360. What a deal renting is!

Anyone advising people to buy something in this market are realtors.

[MaeJoMTB]

i made a ton when i sold as i brought my land when the baht was 50!!!

sold it the baht was 32

rent free for 9 years

land value went from 1 rai at 800,000 to 5 million/!!

Whoa! That post is not going to make you very popular with quite a few posters.

That was then, this is now.

[KarenBravo]

i made a ton when i sold as i brought my land when the baht was 50!!!

sold it the baht was 32

rent free for 9 years

land value went from 1 rai at 800,000 to 5 million/!!

Whoa! That post is not going to make you very popular with quite a few posters.

That was then, this is now.

Yes, that is true, but, as LiK has already mentioned, many of us bought our property years ago (1999). We bought back THEN and we have no intention of buying in the NOW.

[eisfeld]

I keep an eye on all the major real estate websites for Phuket (and Thailand). I see the same properties for sale for many years. They get posted over and over and over again to make it look like they just got onto the market.

Houses advertised as brand new but I've seen them for sale for 4 years and know they are even older than that. Every single soi on the island seems to have numerous houses for sale/rent.

My landlord from who I rent also treats me very very well because they know if I move out, she'll have big trouble renting this house. She also owns the one next to me and in the past 2 years, it didn't have a tenant.

The estate has about 10% of houses for sale/rent or abandoned even though it's a fine, decent place.

I know of some Thai ladies who own some villas that they "got" from their falang husbands which are sitting for years up for sale/rent. They are not getting maintained so are slowly deteriorating. They don't want to invest 10k THB to fix them up and make them look nice to be able to rent them out. Even agents are refusing to list them...

Or other properties which are way overpriced and are asking something like 60-80k THB rent for a 3br 3bath 230sqm house with pool. They let them sit there instead of lowering the price and getting at least a bit of money back.

You want to buy land of 800sqm and build a house? That's gonna be 4-5M THB for the land plus something like 6-8M THB to build a decent house. That would take 20 years of near constant occupancy at 50-60k THB a month to recoup. And after 20 years it'll look like shit because of the building standards here.

Who is moving to Phuket to buy properties like that? Certainly not families who want to work here and raise kids. Retired guys? Not many that have that kind of cash. Rich guys who just need to park their wealth somewhere? There are some indeed but these people have much better choices in other countries with rule of law.

Before a lot of russians used to buy here. They're gone. Westeners increasingly are doubtful of the future of Phuket - with good reason.

All those condos? They are either near a beach and target the rental for tourists market. Good luck getting those 3-5M THB back in condo rentals in a reasonable timeframe.

Or they target the working middle class like D Condo in Kathu. Even at 1.2-1.5M THB you'd need to rent them near constantly for 10 years at 10k THB per month. The target audience doesn't have that kinda money for the most part. They have salaries of 10-15k THB.

Hence many are for sale/rent.

If there was rule of law and you could be certain that you wont lose your property and not have to worry about visa nonsense or civil war, I'm sure they'd find buyers. But it's not the case unfortunately. Guys with cash can go to HongKong, Singapore or a numerous other places.

I spend most of my time here. I have the cash to buy properties. But I won't do as it's just a silly thing to do right now unless you really want to live here in the long term and don't care much. If things go south considerably more I'm out in a heartbeat.

I do have seen some successful properties being built the past years. But they are far and few between.

It's gonna be interesting to watch the next 5 years unfold. I honestly can't tell what'll happen to the property market but my gut feeling is that it wont make a miraculous comeback.

There is a slight glut, yes. But even without the glut of new properties the market is dysfunctional.

[NamKangMan]

i made a ton when i sold as i brought my land when the baht was 50!!!

sold it the baht was 32

rent free for 9 years

land value went from 1 rai at 800,000 to 5 million/!!

Whoa! That post is not going to make you very popular with quite a few posters.

That was then, this is now.

Yes, that is true, but, as LiK has already mentioned, many of us bought our property years ago (1999). We bought back THEN and we have no intention of buying in the NOW.

"and we have no intention of buying in the NOW." - so, perhaps you could tell us why you would not buy "NOW."

Considering most readers of this forum were not considering buying property on Phuket 20 years ago, the "NOW" just might be a little more relative to them than the "THEN."

[Pinot]

I keep an eye on all the major real estate websites for Phuket (and Thailand). I see the same properties for sale for many years. They get posted over and over and over again to make it look like they just got onto the market.

Houses advertised as brand new but I've seen them for sale for 4 years and know they are even older than that. Every single soi on the island seems to have numerous houses for sale/rent.

My landlord from who I rent also treats me very very well because they know if I move out, she'll have big trouble renting this house. She also owns the one next to me and in the past 2 years, it didn't have a tenant.

The estate has about 10% of houses for sale/rent or abandoned even though it's a fine, decent place.

I know of some Thai ladies who own some villas that they "got" from their falang husbands which are sitting for years up for sale/rent. They are not getting maintained so are slowly deteriorating. They don't want to invest 10k THB to fix them up and make them look nice to be able to rent them out. Even agents are refusing to list them...

Or other properties which are way overpriced and are asking something like 60-80k THB rent for a 3br 3bath 230sqm house with pool. They let them sit there instead of lowering the price and getting at least a bit of money back.

You want to buy land of 800sqm and build a house? That's gonna be 4-5M THB for the land plus something like 6-8M THB to build a decent house. That would take 20 years of near constant occupancy at 50-60k THB a month to recoup. And after 20 years it'll look like shit because of the building standards here.

Who is moving to Phuket to buy properties like that? Certainly not families who want to work here and raise kids. Retired guys? Not many that have that kind of cash. Rich guys who just need to park their wealth somewhere? There are some indeed but these people have much better choices in other countries with rule of law.

Before a lot of russians used to buy here. They're gone. Westeners increasingly are doubtful of the future of Phuket - with good reason.

All those condos? They are either near a beach and target the rental for tourists market. Good luck getting those 3-5M THB back in condo rentals in a reasonable timeframe.

Or they target the working middle class like D Condo in Kathu. Even at 1.2-1.5M THB you'd need to rent them near constantly for 10 years at 10k THB per month. The target audience doesn't have that kinda money for the most part. They have salaries of 10-15k THB.

Hence many are for sale/rent.

If there was rule of law and you could be certain that you wont lose your property and not have to worry about visa nonsense or civil war, I'm sure they'd find buyers. But it's not the case unfortunately. Guys with cash can go to HongKong, Singapore or a numerous other places.

I spend most of my time here. I have the cash to buy properties. But I won't do as it's just a silly thing to do right now unless you really want to live here in the long term and don't care much. If things go south considerably more I'm out in a heartbeat.

I do have seen some successful properties being built the past years. But they are far and few between.

It's gonna be interesting to watch the next 5 years unfold. I honestly can't tell what'll happen to the property market but my gut feeling is that it wont make a miraculous comeback.

There is a slight glut, yes. But even without the glut of new properties the market is dysfunctional.

The environmental impact of all the new unneeded, unwanted construction is the really sad part of this.

At what point does lack of sales stop this environmental building disaster?

[NamKangMan]

I keep an eye on all the major real estate websites for Phuket (and Thailand). I see the same properties for sale for many years. They get posted over and over and over again to make it look like they just got onto the market.

Houses advertised as brand new but I've seen them for sale for 4 years and know they are even older than that. Every single soi on the island seems to have numerous houses for sale/rent.

My landlord from who I rent also treats me very very well because they know if I move out, she'll have big trouble renting this house. She also owns the one next to me and in the past 2 years, it didn't have a tenant.

The estate has about 10% of houses for sale/rent or abandoned even though it's a fine, decent place.

I know of some Thai ladies who own some villas that they "got" from their falang husbands which are sitting for years up for sale/rent. They are not getting maintained so are slowly deteriorating. They don't want to invest 10k THB to fix them up and make them look nice to be able to rent them out. Even agents are refusing to list them...

Or other properties which are way overpriced and are asking something like 60-80k THB rent for a 3br 3bath 230sqm house with pool. They let them sit there instead of lowering the price and getting at least a bit of money back.

You want to buy land of 800sqm and build a house? That's gonna be 4-5M THB for the land plus something like 6-8M THB to build a decent house. That would take 20 years of near constant occupancy at 50-60k THB a month to recoup. And after 20 years it'll look like shit because of the building standards here.

Who is moving to Phuket to buy properties like that? Certainly not families who want to work here and raise kids. Retired guys? Not many that have that kind of cash. Rich guys who just need to park their wealth somewhere? There are some indeed but these people have much better choices in other countries with rule of law.

Before a lot of russians used to buy here. They're gone. Westeners increasingly are doubtful of the future of Phuket - with good reason.

All those condos? They are either near a beach and target the rental for tourists market. Good luck getting those 3-5M THB back in condo rentals in a reasonable timeframe.

Or they target the working middle class like D Condo in Kathu. Even at 1.2-1.5M THB you'd need to rent them near constantly for 10 years at 10k THB per month. The target audience doesn't have that kinda money for the most part. They have salaries of 10-15k THB.

Hence many are for sale/rent.

If there was rule of law and you could be certain that you wont lose your property and not have to worry about visa nonsense or civil war, I'm sure they'd find buyers. But it's not the case unfortunately. Guys with cash can go to HongKong, Singapore or a numerous other places.

I spend most of my time here. I have the cash to buy properties. But I won't do as it's just a silly thing to do right now unless you really want to live here in the long term and don't care much. If things go south considerably more I'm out in a heartbeat.

I do have seen some successful properties being built the past years. But they are far and few between.

It's gonna be interesting to watch the next 5 years unfold. I honestly can't tell what'll happen to the property market but my gut feeling is that it wont make a miraculous comeback.

There is a slight glut, yes. But even without the glut of new properties the market is dysfunctional.

The environmental impact of all the new unneeded, unwanted construction is the really sad part of this.

At what point does lack of sales stop this environmental building disaster?

"At what point does lack of sales stop this environmental building disaster?" - as Pattaya became a city by the sea, Phuket will become an island city.

Phuket's beaches will be exploited and destroyed, the same way Pattaya Beach was some years ago.

It's the Thai way to "slash and burn" for money today, with no consideration for sustainable industries for generations to come.

Edited January 8, 2016 by NamKangMan

[LivinginKata]

"and we have no intention of buying in the NOW." - so, perhaps you could tell us why you would not buy "NOW."

Considering most readers of this forum were not considering buying property on Phuket 20 years ago, the "NOW" just might be a little more relative to them than the "THEN."

Sigh Sigh - it's obvious because the resale potential is poor to bad.

How do you know that 'most readers of this forum were not considering buying property on Phuket 20 years ago' as this forum was not started until 11/12 years ago.

I have no idea what percentage of expat would buy 20 years ago or 10 years ago. I suspect not many for all the reason you bang on about for many years. But a few of us like the idea of not renting and giving security to our Thai wives. I suspect your attitude might change if heaven forbid you even got married to a Thai. Unlikely ...

[Jimi007]

"and we have no intention of buying in the NOW." - so, perhaps you could tell us why you would not buy "NOW."

Considering most readers of this forum were not considering buying property on Phuket 20 years ago, the "NOW" just might be a little more relative to them than the "THEN."

Sigh Sigh - it's obvious because the resale potential is poor to bad.

How do you know that 'most readers of this forum were not considering buying property on Phuket 20 years ago' as this forum was not started until 11/12 years ago.

I have no idea what percentage of expat would buy 20 years ago or 10 years ago. I suspect not many for all the reason you bang on about for many years. But a few of us like the idea of not renting and giving security to our Thai wives. I suspect your attitude might change if heaven forbid you even got married to a Thai. Unlikely ...

I agree with what you're saying. I thought about buying 10 years ago, but I wasn't married then, so problematic, plus rent was and still is cheap! Same price as 10 years ago for my house. The landlord made an offer to me to buy my house a couple years ago again and said he'd put all my past rent towards the purchase price. I may take him up on that some day, but not right now. My wife is pretty covered as she owns 50 rai near the major highway just outside of the city of Sa Kaeo. Plus since we were married in California, she inherits my two houses there. She still wants to built a place out near her family in Sa Kaeo, which we may do next year. Just what I need; 4 houses, another car and more motorbikes! Oh well, life's a beach!

[NamKangMan]

"and we have no intention of buying in the NOW." - so, perhaps you could tell us why you would not buy "NOW."

Considering most readers of this forum were not considering buying property on Phuket 20 years ago, the "NOW" just might be a little more relative to them than the "THEN."

Sigh Sigh - it's obvious because the resale potential is poor to bad.

How do you know that 'most readers of this forum were not considering buying property on Phuket 20 years ago' as this forum was not started until 11/12 years ago.

I have no idea what percentage of expat would buy 20 years ago or 10 years ago. I suspect not many for all the reason you bang on about for many years. But a few of us like the idea of not renting and giving security to our Thai wives. I suspect your attitude might change if heaven forbid you even got married to a Thai. Unlikely ...

Hypothetically, if I was to remarry, and to a Thai, wouldn't I be better leaving her an asset based in the west, whether that be a property, shares, or cash, or a small portfolio of these?

You have previously posted you rearranged your financials when the Reds and Yellows kicked off. Why does civil unrest have to be the reason for holding assets offshore when there are soooo many other reasons for doing this?

Once again, no offense meant to you LIK, or others, but leaving a property on Phuket to your spouse, given the outlook that you say in your post, "the resale potential is poor to bad" - what, exactly, are you leaving her?

Serious question.

You say, "security." Sure, I agree, IF, she wants to remain residing on Phuket, then, upon her demise, it's her family's problem. If not, what use is a property to her on Phuket, in the future? It would probably be a liability, if anything.

In relation to property here 20 years ago, I was pointing out that, in my opinion, I think this thread it aimed at the "NOW" and not the "THEN" which has little relevance to the majority of readers. That said, I could be wrong, and happy to hear from readers who would like to discuss the historical value of property on Phuket.

Was there a "Phuket property glut" 20 years ago, or 12 years ago?

[NamKangMan]

"and we have no intention of buying in the NOW." - so, perhaps you could tell us why you would not buy "NOW."

Considering most readers of this forum were not considering buying property on Phuket 20 years ago, the "NOW" just might be a little more relative to them than the "THEN."

Sigh Sigh - it's obvious because the resale potential is poor to bad.

How do you know that 'most readers of this forum were not considering buying property on Phuket 20 years ago' as this forum was not started until 11/12 years ago.

I have no idea what percentage of expat would buy 20 years ago or 10 years ago. I suspect not many for all the reason you bang on about for many years. But a few of us like the idea of not renting and giving security to our Thai wives. I suspect your attitude might change if heaven forbid you even got married to a Thai. Unlikely ...

I agree with what you're saying. I thought about buying 10 years ago, but I wasn't married then, so problematic, plus rent was and still is cheap! Same price as 10 years ago for my house. The landlord made an offer to me to buy my house a couple years ago again and said he'd put all my past rent towards the purchase price. I may take him up on that some day, but not right now. My wife is pretty covered as she owns 50 rai near the major highway just outside of the city of Sa Kaeo. Plus since we were married in California, she inherits my two houses there. She still wants to built a place out near her family in Sa Kaeo, which we may do next year. Just what I need; 4 houses, another car and more motorbikes! Oh well, life's a beach!

So, plenty of assets, and none of them on Phuket?

Why????

[thaistocks]

Phuket just in the past 2-3 days "Inclusion on the UNESCO Creative Cities listing for its gastronomic delights", ThaiVisa just today reports how BBC news thinks Thailand is among the 7th best places to live after retirement. Post the mega infrastructure projects completion here over the next 2 years, and the burnout of all those marginal homeowners posting here, Phuket will have a second wind. Watch see and learn.

[LivinginKata]

<snip>

In relation to property here 20 years ago, I was pointing out that, in my opinion, I think this thread it aimed at the "NOW" and not the "THEN" which has little relevance to the majority of readers. That said, I could be wrong, and happy to hear from readers who would like to discuss the historical value of property on Phuket.

Was there a "Phuket property glut" 20 years ago, or 12 years ago?

No - there was not a glut 20 years ago, not even 12 years ago - glut is much more recent, I condsider in the last 5 years.

Apologies mods - going a bit off topic now ..

Clearly you know little or nothing about the Thai thinking. My wife would not be interested in me leaving any property in the UK as she does not live or even visit there, even then my son would have a strong claim. That's why I sold my 2 UK properties years ago and helped my son buy his own home many years ago to make sure there was no inheritance legal squabble. I own nothing in the UK ... and as you would rightly state I own nothing much here in Thailand, well maybe the car title and some nonsense company shares ...

My wife has much more land and a house in her own home area (inherited from her mother). I have discussed with her what she would do with our Phuket homes on my death. I worry about that, but she is not the least worried, it will all be Ok for her. And I will be dead and doing the very long sleep ... aaaah

Edited January 8, 2016 by LivinginKata

[LivinginKata]

Phuket just in the past 2-3 days "Inclusion on the UNESCO Creative Cities listing for its gastronomic delights", ThaiVisa just today reports how BBC news thinks Thailand is among the 7th best places to live after retirement. Post the mega infrastructure projects completion here over the next 2 years, and the burnout of all those marginal homeowners posting here, Phuket will have a second wind. Watch see and learn.

A Second Wind - I very much doubt it ... and never in my life time. Too many new worlds for the newbies to explore.

[louse1953]

Because they know it would cause a huge domestic problem as most Thais are gambling addicts-in-waiting.

Gambling in Thailand is illegal for a very good reason.

They could simply do like they do in Vietnam.

No Vietnamese Nationals allow inside the casino, except staff. Problem solved.

Same Laos and maybe Cambo too.It's the Chin's they're after.

[louse1953]

Phuket just in the past 2-3 days "Inclusion on the UNESCO Creative Cities listing for its gastronomic delights", ThaiVisa just today reports how BBC news thinks Thailand is among the 7th best places to live after retirement. Post the mega infrastructure projects completion here over the next 2 years, and the burnout of all those marginal homeowners posting here, Phuket will have a second wind. Watch see and learn.

A Second Wind - I very much doubt it ... and never in my life time. Too many new worlds for the newbies to explore.

The rich and stupid have better places to go.Sex and sun only go so far.