New shower wiring. Is this right?

[emanphoto]

We've been having our house completely redone from electrical to paint and tonight I was walking about checking things and noticed the electrical work on this shower.

I took a couple pix to illustrate. Shouldn't they have cut a channel in the wall, run conduit to the exit point and then let the tilers do their thing, THEN mount the heater directly over the wire exit point?

I know anything goes here so it's not unexpected to see wires but our electrician has been doing decent work up to this point. I don't like seeing wires in a shower. ☹

Is it right to have a shower heater set up like this?

Thanks for any input.

[KunMatt]

When we had our house built all of the wiring was run inside conduits in the wall.

I'm betting that Thailand has no legal safety issue with your wiring but it looks like trash and for a new build was completely unnecessary unless you added it on late in the build without telling the electrician or tilers?

[55Jay]

Mine is typical Thai after the fact like this.

Separate issue - is that 3 wires with an earth ground, or just the normal two wires?

[sunnyjim5]

How many wires are there ?

If just two it is a potentially lethal installation.

[Mojomor]

The photos suggest 2 wires. Not correct. The installation has to be earthed.

[Jdietz]

Though not very unsafe, it's just bad work, and the adhesive strip will detach itself after a few showers. Wires are sturdy enough to keep the whole shebang from falling to the ground though.

Couple of issues:

- No ground wire.

-- it looks like the shower unit has an ELCB (please test if it works before showering) so that is at least safe-ish

-- you do want a second ELCB at the other end of the wires, so if a wire detaches you won't get a wallop from it

If you want to have this embedded in the wall you should have double insulated wire running in a pipe, otherwise rotten insulation will electrify the walls..

But definitely could've been worse...

[BKKdreaming]

...

OK.....how would you wire this one to be safe ?

this style is very Popular in Central america , Fame in Brazil makes them,

but other than making sure you have a proper ground how would you wire it ?

Does it need a ground-fault circuit interrupter, or GFCI ?

[hhgz]

" Shouldn't they have cut a channel in the wall, run conduit to the exit point and then let the tilers do their thing, THEN mount the heater directly over the wire exit point?"

Yes they should have.

[Crossy]

...

OK.....how would you wire this one to be safe ?

this style is very Popular in Central america , Fame in Brazil makes them,

but other than making sure you have a proper ground how would you wire it ?

Does it need a ground-fault circuit interrupter, or GFCI ?

Welllll. I don't think that would ever be safe, popular or not. Including a 10mA RCD (GFCI) in the circuit would reduce (but not eliminate) the possibility of death.

I've seen some other interesting electrical ideas from South America including a power cable that can actually be run under the wallpaper. Great for adding a power outlet without digging up the wall, sadly not proof against thumb tacks let alone nails or screws

[Crossy]

Back to our OP, please post a photo of the heater with the lid off (turn off the breaker first).

[emanphoto]

Ok will get off cover with help. Here are some wire close ups

[emanphoto]

The house is grounded but for some reason he f'ed up here and took the lazy way out. Here is other shower waiting for the heater.

[emanphoto]

A little more clarity for the above foto as it's still early for me.

The house is grounded but for some reason he f'ed up where the heater is installed and took the lazy way out. This shot shows the other shower waiting for the heater. He seems to have gotten this one right.

[emanphoto]

A couple more shots as background. Our panel and the conduit running to the ground.

[RedQualia]

Looks like it's probably grounded OK. I mean, there does appear to be a ground wire, but pic with cover off would help to verify that.

In answer to your other questions, yes -- they should have cut grooves or channels into the walls before doing the tile and stone work. That doesn't much matter. They messed up, so you pay to have it done over the right way. Standard way it works here, I guess. And I definitely would have them do it over, the right way, now. A couple of extra pieces of tile won't break the bank and I assume that style of tile/stone is still readily available. Really, you should have extra pieces of tile/stone stored away somewhere. In a few months or years, that particular style/color of tile probably won't be available anymore.

The other thing that looks a bit odd to me is that the water heater is jammed all the way into the corner... Against the next wall. I would tend to think it should be out from the corner a bit, maybe 10-30cm, depending on where the shower nozzle will be hung.

It might not be in the budget, but still another option would be to put the water heater under the sink and then run hot water pipes in channels in the walls to the shower, sink, etc. (It was done that way in our house). Of course at this point, putting water pipes into the walls would mean removing/replacing several more pieces of tile, and it could run into a bit more money. You would also need electricity under the sink, if that's where the water heater would be going. But again, IF putting the water pipes inside the walls is something you would prefer, now would be the time to change it, while the tile/stone is still available.

Just thoughts. Good luck to you!

[Crossy]

A thought, what's on the other side of the wall?

Any possibility of running the cable the other side then straight through into the heater?

It does indeed look to be grounded

[Jdietz]

...

OK.....how would you wire this one to be safe ?

this style is very Popular in Central america , Fame in Brazil makes them,

but other than making sure you have a proper ground how would you wire it ?

Does it need a ground-fault circuit interrupter, or GFCI ?

Welllll. I don't think that would ever be safe, popular or not. Including a 10mA RCD (GFCI) in the circuit would reduce (but not eliminate) the possibility of death.

I've seen some other interesting electrical ideas from South America including a power cable that can actually be run under the wallpaper. Great for adding a power outlet without digging up the wall, sadly not proof against thumb tacks let alone nails or screws

The only way to get this thing safe is to cut all the wires and live with cold showers.

The heating element is in direct contact with the water, every RCD will permanently trip.

This is "fine" as long as the neutral wire NEVER gets detached, in which case you'll just die.

There are so many deadly failure modes on that thing, just not using one is the preferred option. Even with cold water only the overpressure protection can blow out and become a projectile..

[Crossy]

...

OK.....how would you wire this one to be safe ?

this style is very Popular in Central america , Fame in Brazil makes them,

but other than making sure you have a proper ground how would you wire it ?

Does it need a ground-fault circuit interrupter, or GFCI ?

Welllll. I don't think that would ever be safe, popular or not. Including a 10mA RCD (GFCI) in the circuit would reduce (but not eliminate) the possibility of death.

I've seen some other interesting electrical ideas from South America including a power cable that can actually be run under the wallpaper. Great for adding a power outlet without digging up the wall, sadly not proof against thumb tacks let alone nails or screws

The only way to get this thing safe is to cut all the wires and live with cold showers.

The heating element is in direct contact with the water, every RCD will permanently trip.

This is "fine" as long as the neutral wire NEVER gets detached, in which case you'll just die.

There are so many deadly failure modes on that thing, just not using one is the preferred option. Even with cold water only the overpressure protection can blow out and become a projectile..

So, was this some sort of test? You already knew the answer so why ask the question?

I've never actually seen one of these units but from what you say I would agree.

[technologybytes]

So far, from what we can see, the OP's installation is untidy with the conduit instead of hidden wires, but there is nothing I can see to consider it unsafe.

[how241]

Looks OK...I would take a caulking gun and some waterproof caulk and seal up the hole in the ceiling. That will keep the bugs out. Also run a bead of caulk around both side of the wire conduit. Cheap and easy to do...Couldn't hurt.

[bangmai]

looks like "safe-t-cut," not grounded box. I like a separate elcb switch for each appliance. The wire entering from the side or top of the heater is standard, but it does look like a piss-poor job.

[mercman24]

as said before get it done neatly, its only a couple of tiles, and conduit the wiring

[gandalf12]

Shoddy and I am being polite. With the cable exposed before it enters the ceiling space, condensation can and will get into the conduit and go straight into the water heater. In my mind it is dangerous like that. If any of my guys did that kind of work they would b looking for another job.

[mankondang]

The OP is concerned with the safety (and the aesthetics) of an electrical installation in his new home. So keeping in the interests of safety, and with all due respect to the well intended responders, may I suggest that it would be in the interest of safety, that the responders identify their electrical installation qualifications along with their advise.

I, personnaly, would seek out the advice of a Thailand qualified electctrical installer to inspect and advise on this issue. (I say Thai qualified, as electrical regulations vary from place to place).

To practice what I preach: I hold a Bachelor Degree in Electrical Engineering...but not Thai.

Much better to be safe than sorry.

Edited January 8, 2016 by mankondang

[biplanebluey]

looks like "safe-t-cut," not grounded box. I like a separate elcb switch for each appliance. The wire entering from the side or top of the heater is standard, but it does look like a piss-poor job.

That pipe going up to the ceiling------ I would certainly seal that as water or evaporation entering the top could give you a serious problem running down inside.

[bankruatsteve]

Well, the contractor didn't do a "professional" job bringing the wire in. The hole in the ceiling is shoddy. It would have been better to come in through the back (?) or score a channel. BUT - if that's the way it ends up, it's safe. Maybe paint the conduit making sure the paint goes to the tile and sticks the conduit - otherwise it will separate and get moldy and look terrible. If you paid a lot for this, you should have them re-do it.

[BKKdreaming]

...

OK.....how would you wire this one to be safe ?

this style is very Popular in Central america , Fame in Brazil makes them,

but other than making sure you have a proper ground how would you wire it ?

Does it need a ground-fault circuit interrupter, or GFCI ?

Welllll. I don't think that would ever be safe, popular or not. Including a 10mA RCD (GFCI) in the circuit would reduce (but not eliminate) the possibility of death.

I've seen some other interesting electrical ideas from South America including a power cable that can actually be run under the wallpaper. Great for adding a power outlet without digging up the wall, sadly not proof against thumb tacks let alone nails or screws

The only way to get this thing safe is to cut all the wires and live with cold showers.

The heating element is in direct contact with the water, every RCD will permanently trip.

This is "fine" as long as the neutral wire NEVER gets detached, in which case you'll just die.

There are so many deadly failure modes on that thing, just not using one is the preferred option. Even with cold water only the overpressure protection can blow out and become a projectile..

maybe I did not make it clear ,

I was asking how to make that "style" of heated shower head work , a NEW one not the one in the picture ,

new ones are sealed , the one in the photo looks like the top plastic got knocked off !

So anyway to make a NEW one safe ?

sorry for the confusion

[KhunBENQ]

So far, from what we can see, the OP's installation is untidy with the conduit instead of hidden wires, but there is nothing I can see to consider it unsafe.

The OP has not seen much

Indeed as written the existence of an ELCB at the heater is a must and even better to have another one at the breaker where the heater is likely being connected too (or maybe directly at the breaker box?).

Also from the pics in post #11 it looks like a ground (thick yellow cable) is connected.

I have seen much worse.

The aesthetics are disputable but still better than some broken/damaged tiles.

EDIT after browsing through the other pictures.

You have an ECLB at the breaker box, the heater has an ECLB, you have a ground wire.

I bet you are safer than 9x% of all Thai households.

Edited January 8, 2016 by KhunBENQ

[lonewolf99]

They all work for a franchise here called Bodgit & Scarper....especially if the fallang has handed over money already.

deadly installation work.

I have spent my entire life working in the oil industry on electronic and electrical systems. Only the UK, Germany, Holland, and the scandinavian countries know anything about electrical work....the rest of the planet just make a deadly mess. Any European country that has a Med coastline has poor electrics.

I lived in France in a brand new apartment with 2 double sockets behind the kitchen sink tap. ?

As for regulations in Thailand about electrical work. Just walk outside and look upwards.....or sometimes just about head height you will see regulations don't mention dangling down.

[bangmai]

They all work for a franchise here called Bodgit & Scarper....especially if the fallang has handed over money already.

deadly installation work.

I have spent my entire life working in the oil industry on electronic and electrical systems. Only the UK, Germany, Holland, and the scandinavian countries know anything about electrical work....the rest of the planet just make a deadly mess. Any European country that has a Med coastline has poor electrics.

I lived in France in a brand new apartment with 2 double sockets behind the kitchen sink tap. ?

As for regulations in Thailand about electrical work. Just walk outside and look upwards.....or sometimes just about head height you will see regulations don't mention dangling down.

Lots of big UK and German computer companies.....and the 55 miles of wire they had to rip out of the new Berlin Airport? Training purposes? Audi, BMW, Saab, and Triumph are notorious for electrical problems, Lexus has better resale value than any of them.