The Koh Tao verdict and Myanmar migrant worker misery

[webfact]

The Koh Tao Verdict and Myanmar Migrant Worker Misery
By David Scott Mathieson


Protesters hold pictures of Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, in front of the Thai embassy in Yangon Dec. 25. Photo: Soe Zeya Tun / Reuters

YANGON —The death sentences handed down to two Myanmar migrant workers by a Thai court on Christmas Eve ignited widespread condemnation in Myanmar.

Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, both 22, were convicted of the murder of British tourists David Miller and Hannah Witheridge on the Thai resort island of Koh Tao in September 2014. The police investigation and proceedings were widely criticized for serious shortcomings, including allegations of police torture to extract initial confessions which the Thai authorities refused to investigate seriously. Forensic experts from Thailand and Australia have raised serious questions about DNA evidence linked to the rape of Witheridge, on which the prosecution relied heavily. Defense lawyers have said they will appeal the decision.

The verdict sparked calls for a review of the case by senior officials in Myanmar, including by the military commander in chief Senior General Min Aung Hlaing and Myanmar’s ambassador in Bangkok. Protests in Myanmar quickly grew outside the Thai embassy in Yangon, where a petition of 25,000 signatures was presented last week, and at protests at major land border-crossings between the two countries. Anger at the verdict spread throughout social media, and the ultra-nationalist Buddhist group Ma Ba Tha staged anti-Thailand protests in Yangon.

Myanmar Migrants in Thailand

The case highlighted the poor treatment faced by over two million Myanmar migrant workers in Thailand. Thai police, government officials and employers have been implicated in a system of pervasive abuse that includes killings, beatings, human trafficking and mistreatment of workers in the offshore fishing industry, food processing factories, plantations and farms, garment and other light industry factories, and even the lucrative tourism sector. These abuses have been documented by Human Rights Watch and others for decades.

Full story: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1452771335&typecate=06&section=


-- Khaosod English 2016-01-15

[Raymonddiaz]

Thailand has a population based on casts.it has first,second,and third class citizens.the same applies to foreigners living here. Myanmar and Cambodian people are at the bottom of the list.

[greenchair]

Migrant worker rights and the Koh Tao case are two separate issues. Human rights groups are using the Koh Tao case as a spring board to get their organisations free press coverage and increase donations to a charity that a year ago received few donations.

Similarly the Koh Tao camp use the plight of the migrant workers as a means to avoid scrutiny of the testimony and other evidences against Wei Phyo. Namely that by self admission, he was meters from the crime at 1am, he left belongings meters from the crime, he went back to the scene at 5am to retrieve belongings and he had possession of the murderered victims phone that he could not explain satisfactorily. When asked to explain these anomalies in detail the answer is. ..

A. I was so drunk I can't remember.

B. We are poor abused migrant workers, our rights have not been respected.

What about Hannah's rights? ?

[Oziex1]

They had the right to a fair trial they didn't get it.

[alant]

Thailand has a population based on casts.it has first,second,and third class citizens.the same applies to foreigners living here. Myanmar and Cambodian people are at the bottom of the list.

After Farangs???

[phitsanulokjohn]

The police investigation and proceedings were widely criticized for serious shortcomings.

I think we all know this is a gross understatement.

[greenchair]

Yes, and Wei Phyo's testimony and evidences against him have been widely camouflaged in efforts to discredit the police findings.

[duckmandon]

The only way to know exactly what happened on that beach that night is known by the 2 Brits who died & the murderer or murderers. We can speculate as much as possible & the only way to find the truth is to have a fair trial with irrevocable evidence. This didn't happen so it puts doubt in every ones mind. Did they or didn't they. We may never know. Hopefully when the appeal (if it happens) starts, the world will see justice in one form or another is served.

[DM07]

Yes, and Wei Phyo's testimony and evidences against him have been widely camouflaged in efforts to discredit the police findings.

Let it go, dude!

The verdict was almost solely based on the DNA "evidence"!

No one really cares for your little BS- story and no one could "discredit" the police work, because it was not credible...ever!

[somo]

Yes, and Wei Phyo's testimony and evidences against him have been widely camouflaged in efforts to discredit the police findings.

Let it go, dude!

The verdict was almost solely based on the DNA "evidence"!

No one really cares for your little BS- story and no one could "discredit" the police work, because it was not credible...ever!

What DNA evidence? None was presented. All the police said was that they remembered seeing some but it has since been lost.

[Norvid 1950]

The whole investigation, allegations, mistreatment of the accused, police stories with no ending, withholding the evidence from the defense team, strange findings, wrong DNA tests, lack of DNA samples, blocked DNA specialists from testifying in court, etc, etc, and now treating sister of the killed sibling.

This smells like a sewer on a hot day.

..................................................................Who will believe Thai police and Thai court now ?

[JungleBiker]

...the Koh Tao camp use the plight of the migrant workers as a means to avoid scrutiny of the testimony and other evidences against Wei Phyo. Namely that by self admission, he was meters from the crime at 1am, he left belongings meters from the crime, he went back to the scene at 5am to retrieve belongings and he had possession of the murderered victims phone that he could not explain satisfactorily. When asked to explain these anomalies in detail the answer is. ..

A. I was so drunk I can't remember.

B. We are poor abused migrant workers, our rights have not been respected.

What about Hannah's rights? ?

If he/they did witness the crime (or helped carry a body or two to the beach), what do you think would happen to them if they spoke up and said they saw NS and his henchmen murder David and Hannah (or said they were ordered to carry the bodies by NS & Co.)?

[TomJoad]

"The case highlighted the poor treatment faced by over two million Myanmar migrant workers in Thailand."

Which would have to be a drop in the bucket compared to the number of Myanmar workers who've faced poor treatment in their own country. I've been to Myanmar 4 times and seen it.

Thailand, for all its faults, isn't nearly as backwards as some of its neighbors. Everything is relative.

[SouthernMan3]

Thailand has a population based on casts.it has first,second,and third class citizens.the same applies to foreigners living here. Myanmar and Cambodian people are at the bottom of the list.

After Farangs???

Yep

[mrrizzla]

Migrant worker rights and the Koh Tao case are two separate issues. Human rights groups are using the Koh Tao case as a spring board to get their organisations free press coverage and increase donations to a charity that a year ago received few donations.

Similarly the Koh Tao camp use the plight of the migrant workers as a means to avoid scrutiny of the testimony and other evidences against Wei Phyo. Namely that by self admission, he was meters from the crime at 1am, he left belongings meters from the crime, he went back to the scene at 5am to retrieve belongings and he had possession of the murderered victims phone that he could not explain satisfactorily. When asked to explain these anomalies in detail the answer is. ..

A. I was so drunk I can't remember.

B. We are poor abused migrant workers, our rights have not been respected.

What about Hannah's rights? ?

Oh, it's you

[greenchair]

...the Koh Tao camp use the plight of the migrant workers as a means to avoid scrutiny of the testimony and other evidences against Wei Phyo. Namely that by self admission, he was meters from the crime at 1am, he left belongings meters from the crime, he went back to the scene at 5am to retrieve belongings and he had possession of the murderered victims phone that he could not explain satisfactorily. When asked to explain these anomalies in detail the answer is. ..

A. I was so drunk I can't remember.

B. We are poor abused migrant workers, our rights have not been respected.

What about Hannah's rights? ?

If he/they did witness the crime (or helped carry a body or two to the beach), what do you think would happen to them if they spoke up and said they saw NS and his henchmen murder David and Hannah (or said they were ordered to carry the bodies by NS & Co.)?

I have been hearing this a lot lately. Since by their own testimony they were there, give or take a few minor details. The excuses for these poor down trodden small angels are appalling. They were forced to rape her by mon. Someone else killed them. The dear boys stumbled onto the scene and violated hannah after she was dead. They were just observers, then someone put their dna inside hannah. It's perfectly normal to be wondering around the beach at 5am and stumble across a phone that is exactly the same make as someone that just got murdered.

Pull my other leg, it plays jingle bells. Lol.

[Bernard Flint]

The only way to know exactly what happened on that beach that night is known by the 2 Brits who died & the murderer or murderers. We can speculate as much as possible & the only way to find the truth is to have a fair trial with irrevocable evidence. This didn't happen so it puts doubt in every ones mind. Did they or didn't they. We may never know. Hopefully when the appeal (if it happens) starts, the world will see justice in one form or another is served.

No different to injustices all around the world, many people have been found guilty by a court, then years later found innocent.Lets not be thai haters, because of a possible injustice,they do get many crimes correct.

[Bernard Flint]

...the Koh Tao camp use the plight of the migrant workers as a means to avoid scrutiny of the testimony and other evidences against Wei Phyo. Namely that by self admission, he was meters from the crime at 1am, he left belongings meters from the crime, he went back to the scene at 5am to retrieve belongings and he had possession of the murderered victims phone that he could not explain satisfactorily. When asked to explain these anomalies in detail the answer is. ..

A. I was so drunk I can't remember.

B. We are poor abused migrant workers, our rights have not been respected.

What about Hannah's rights? ?

If he/they did witness the crime (or helped carry a body or two to the beach), what do you think would happen to them if they spoke up and said they saw NS and his henchmen murder David and Hannah (or said they were ordered to carry the bodies by NS & Co.)?

They could have gone back to Myanmar or work in another part of Thailand which isnt as bad as some places in the south.They face the death penbalty now, so what is different if they had spilt the beans.The more i here about this case, the more i believe they were guilty, albeit the way that the case has been handled stinks to be honest, if we all have the full facts, not just heresay.

[z42]

...the Koh Tao camp use the plight of the migrant workers as a means to avoid scrutiny of the testimony and other evidences against Wei Phyo. Namely that by self admission, he was meters from the crime at 1am, he left belongings meters from the crime, he went back to the scene at 5am to retrieve belongings and he had possession of the murderered victims phone that he could not explain satisfactorily. When asked to explain these anomalies in detail the answer is. ..

A. I was so drunk I can't remember.

B. We are poor abused migrant workers, our rights have not been respected.

What about Hannah's rights? ?

If he/they did witness the crime (or helped carry a body or two to the beach), what do you think would happen to them if they spoke up and said they saw NS and his henchmen murder David and Hannah (or said they were ordered to carry the bodies by NS & Co.)?

I have been hearing this a lot lately. Since by their own testimony they were there, give or take a few minor details. The excuses for these poor down trodden small angels are appalling. They were forced to rape her by mon. Someone else killed them. The dear boys stumbled onto the scene and violated hannah after she was dead. They were just observers, then someone put their dna inside hannah. It's perfectly normal to be wondering around the beach at 5am and stumble across a phone that is exactly the same make as someone that just got murdered.

Pull my other leg, it plays jingle bells. Lol.

And how does this latest rant not constitute trolling? Mods?

Greenchair you need to learn to differentiate between circumstancial evidence and incriminating evidence.

There has been zero incriminating evidence for anything except dropping cigarette ends on the beach and allowing a friend to throw a phone that was found into bushes.

The DNA is as yet unverified as to its actual existence, and whether it links (not matches because it physically can't) with the guys on death row.

The source material was not made available to be retested. This is highly unusual because you would have thought sperm from 2 people would be plentiful & could never be used up.

Also any photos of processes done by investigating officers weren't made available because they had "no budget" for printing.

And you believe that nonsense. Shame on you

[greenchair]

...the Koh Tao camp use the plight of the migrant workers as a means to avoid scrutiny of the testimony and other evidences against Wei Phyo. Namely that by self admission, he was meters from the crime at 1am, he left belongings meters from the crime, he went back to the scene at 5am to retrieve belongings and he had possession of the murderered victims phone that he could not explain satisfactorily. When asked to explain these anomalies in detail the answer is. ..

A. I was so drunk I can't remember.

B. We are poor abused migrant workers, our rights have not been respected.

What about Hannah's rights? ?

If he/they did witness the crime (or helped carry a body or two to the beach), what do you think would happen to them if they spoke up and said they saw NS and his henchmen murder David and Hannah (or said they were ordered to carry the bodies by NS & Co.)?

I have been hearing this a lot lately. Since by their own testimony they were there, give or take a few minor details. The excuses for these poor down trodden small angels are appalling. They were forced to rape her by mon. Someone else killed them. The dear boys stumbled onto the scene and violated hannah after she was dead. They were just observers, then someone put their dna inside hannah. It's perfectly normal to be wondering around the beach at 5am and stumble across a phone that is exactly the same make as someone that just got murdered.

Pull my other leg, it plays jingle bells. Lol.

And how does this latest rant not constitute trolling? Mods?

Greenchair you need to learn to differentiate between circumstancial evidence and incriminating evidence.

There has been zero incriminating evidence for anything except dropping cigarette ends on the beach and allowing a friend to throw a phone that was found into bushes.

The DNA is as yet unverified as to its actual existence, and whether it links (not matches because it physically can't) with the guys on death row.

The source material was not made available to be retested. This is highly unusual because you would have thought sperm from 2 people would be plentiful & could never be used up.

Also any photos of processes done by investigating officers weren't made available because they had "no budget" for printing.

And you believe that nonsense. Shame on you

Oh god, it gets worse. Not only did they miraculously find a phone that probably, possibly is not David's even though it was the same model as his. They then allowed a friend to innocently throw it / conceal it in bushes because they didn't want to be accused of the murder they had just heard about. Oh no, as if that wasn't enough already,but no, their cigarette butts were found right near the body. Pppffffftttt with all that, I don't know why the police even bothered with the dna.

The coming and going at the beach. Their belongings at the beach. having David's phone. The cigarettes. The strange swim. This is all from their own testimony. So all this nonsense from the 2nd defendant is a lie is it? ?

Edited January 15, 2016 by greenchair

[oldsailor35]

What really amazes me is how any court judge can be so blatantly biased , stupidly ignoring proven facts and still keep his position in any society. I cannot understand how any person who obviously knows nothing whatsoever about DNA evidence can make his decision based on DNA evidence. This has got me stuffed !

[scorecard]

"The case highlighted the poor treatment faced by over two million Myanmar migrant workers in Thailand."

Which would have to be a drop in the bucket compared to the number of Myanmar workers who've faced poor treatment in their own country. I've been to Myanmar 4 times and seen it.

Thailand, for all its faults, isn't nearly as backwards as some of its neighbors. Everything is relative.

sorry but IMHO your post is not all that relevant. Does your post mean that the conviction of the 2 Burmese boys is all OK?

[greenchair]

"The case highlighted the poor treatment faced by over two million Myanmar migrant workers in Thailand."

Which would have to be a drop in the bucket compared to the number of Myanmar workers who've faced poor treatment in their own country. I've been to Myanmar 4 times and seen it.

Thailand, for all its faults, isn't nearly as backwards as some of its neighbors. Everything is relative.

sorry but IMHO your post is not all that relevant. Does your post mean that the conviction of the 2 Burmese boys is all OK?

Obviously score you did not read the news story in its entirety.

Your post does highlight my previous post, in that there are 2 different issues here. Each issue is feeding off the other to provide benefit to their chosen cause. The Koh Tao murders have nothing to do with migrant workers rights, and vise versa.

Toad has commented on the 2nd part of the story, so his post is certainly relevant to that.

Minding my p's and q's.

Edited January 15, 2016 by greenchair

[007cableguy]

Here is a summary of her take on the court proceedings and was there to witness your all powering DNA greendoor

This is a very short summary, in lay men's terms, of exactly WHY the DNA evidence and it's alleged conclusions (by the Royal Thai Police) are scientifically, and legally, completely and utterly flawed.

1. It consists of a one page table replete with hand written amendments, date changes and data alterations. This document would NOT be admissible in any court in the UK, Australia, USA, EU, Hong Kong, Malaysia or Singapore.

2. It is NOT supported by any case notes, chain-of-custody records, nor statistics based on validated population data bases. The omission of that information is a COMPLETE abrogation of international ISO 17025 standards and would lead to a FULL audit of the police laboratory by an international accreditation agency!

3. The table has been used to match DNA components, which is an extreme oversimplification of the entire DNA process! It relies on single alleles rather than genotypes. (An allele is ONE of a pair of genes that appear in ONE part of a chromosome that help to determine heredity traits.)

4. Because there is NO statistical analysis to determine the probability of the stated frequencies in the table, it is absolutely NOT possible to determine the likelihood of the accused as being the contributors to the mixture! There, in fact, could be a VERY large number of other individuals who could NOT be ruled out as contributors!!!

5. It is, therefore, COMPLETELY erroneous (wrong) to claim a DNA match on the basis of the position of mere alleles on a DNA molecule without statistics to determine the probability!

For these reasons, it CANNOT be said (from any kind of scientific or legal standpoint) that there was a match between the DNA from the semen the police alleged to have and the DNA that was (forcibly, without consent or legal representation) retrieved from the two accused! Basing the conviction on COMPLETELY flawed DNA evidence has resulted in an EXTREME miscarriage of justice!

"Below is my own (heidi anna) personal recollection of events, as recalled from all court sessions, to the best of my recollection. I hereby make no claims that it is 100% accurate:

The defense team requested that the DNA be retested independently and the court finally, after much time and the trial was already well underway, agreed. The police first stated that the DNA sample was "all used up", which is-in actuality-scientifically impossible!

Then the police later (one or two days time) stated, "no, it was not all used up. we have some of the solution left." The defense team was granted permission in court to independently retest the sample and so technicians from Dr. Porntip's lab took cheek swabs from both accused boys, in court under close observation, during the court session during which Dr. Porntip testified.

BUT, what actually remained of the police's alleged DNA "evidence" to be retested was, in fact, merely the midway solution required in the actual DNA testing process itself. This midpoint solution will give an accurate profile, however, it CANNOT determine the actual ORIGINAL SOURCE of the DNA! Therefore, it will NOT show if original alleged DNA from the female decedent at the crime scene came from "semen" as the Royal Thai Police claim, or if it in fact came from oral mucosa, skin, hair, blood, saliva, cigarette butts, etc.

Also, the court demanded that the DNA evidence from Dr. Porntip's lab be returned to the COURT itself and NOT to the defense team!!! Thus, the results and factual information would be completely out of the defense teams hands and thereby highly susceptible to contamination / falsification. For those two reasons, the defense team then; very wisely, declined retesting.

Independent verification (and independent receipt) is another "inalienable human right", as well as a legal right, agreed upon per international standards, so, once again; the accused boys rights were severely violated.

As a licensed and board certified medical professional, very familiar with and highly experienced with legalities as well as the strict scientifically necessary procedures which MUST be adhered to during the collection of (and rigid documentation of) forensic evidence acquired from rape victims in the Emergency Room intended to be used in a legal court of law in the United States of America, I'm shocked and appalled by the disgracefully unprofessional and non-scientifically qualifying (accurate) collection and so called documentation methods utilized by members of the Royal Thai Police whilst on the crime scene, as well as every action and process of documentation of the alleged DNA evidence utilized and displayed by the Royal Thai police de facto crime scene location. It is my educated and highly experienced professional, and personal, opinion that no one can even be at all certain-in any way-that there ever actually was semen present at the crime scene.

[uptoyoumyfriend]

i think their best course of action would be if they all left koh tao and no other burmese workers would come there to replace them.

if they did , who would do the work there?

Edited January 15, 2016 by uptoyoumyfriend

[gemguy]

Migrant worker rights and the Koh Tao case are two separate issues. Human rights groups are using the Koh Tao case as a spring board to get their organisations free press coverage and increase donations to a charity that a year ago received few donations.

Similarly the Koh Tao camp use the plight of the migrant workers as a means to avoid scrutiny of the testimony and other evidences against Wei Phyo. Namely that by self admission, he was meters from the crime at 1am, he left belongings meters from the crime, he went back to the scene at 5am to retrieve belongings and he had possession of the murderered victims phone that he could not explain satisfactorily. When asked to explain these anomalies in detail the answer is. ..

A. I was so drunk I can't remember.

B. We are poor abused migrant workers, our rights have not been respected.

What about Hannah's rights? ?

OK...so what you are ultimately implying is the police and the courts are absolutely correct in their verdicts so, in effect, that means if a loved one of yours, lets say, your dearly beloved sister or brother, was brutally murdered in Thailand then you would simply accept what the Thai police tell you happened and fully agree with the courts decision and fully accept the verdict and never ever question the verdict...and just move on as if noting at all is wrong....nothing at all.

I hope you never get called to sit on a jury for a murder trial.

Cheers

[greenchair]

Cablecart, I green door have not been the one going on about the dna. I have no doubt it was collected poorly. as Jane taupin said, dna by itself is not accepted as sole evidence in criminal trials. Dna is just a piece of circumstantial evidence that must be supported by other evidences ,because as you have so clearly pointed out, it is not infallible. It is the other evidence that I like to make sure that people know about so they can form their own opinion as we were all lied to by omission. The most damning pieces of evidence being

1. They had the victims phone.

2. They left their belongings meters from the murder.

3. Their cigarette butts were at the murder scene.

4. They tried to hide the phone.

5. They went back to the scene to retrieve their belongings.

nobody believes the dna result, we just don't know .

Quite frankly the dna is nothing compared to the lame excuses made to get around all the other evidence as told by their testimony. As the judge said, their story was unbelievable .

All of the above is stated by Wei Phyo himself. God help your conscience if they were to get out of this on a technicality and repeat another horrific killing of some dear young lady on holiday.

Edited January 15, 2016 by greenchair

[z42]

GC #21

Cigarettes near a body don't prove anything, they just prove they were in the vicinity, which they freely admit (circumstantial evidence). Swimming late at night (not proof of anything untoward), finding a phone on a beach (wouldn't have been the first time this has ever happened).

There is still ZERO verifiable evidence proving murder. No motive, no fingerprints / no highly probable DNA traces on the murder weapon, no witnesses to the murders themselves. They (RTP) have only DNA which is nothing more than hearsay as the source material has gone, definitive DNA matches are an impossibility by the way.

I am not saying it is beyond the realms of possibility that the B2 killed them, but the prosecution was NOT able to prove rape / murder / theft using any solid evidence. The saying is innocent until proven guilty, the prosecution / RTP proved nothing in the trial

[phuketandsee]

Thai Murders - Local Justice On Trial

Excellent summary of the case from "The Diplomat"

http://thediplomat.c...stice-on-trial/

[FruitPudding]

omg