Are fresh markets a better value than Big C?

[DMC1]

The Makro fans: do you include the place on Pattaya Nua rd? I've been there a few times as its close, but am always disappointed on both quality and price. Perhaps sukhumvit is better, never been there.

I find the fresh places a bit hit and miss although love the prawns at naklua. If they're moving, they're good.

I live in between Makro Nua 'Food' and Big C Extra. More often than not we purchase our meat & veg from Makro Nua as opposed to Big C. I find Makro better quality. As someone else mentioned you notice that a lot of the customers at Makro are from local restaurants. Edited January 20, 2016 by DMC1

[abab]

On 1/15/2016 at 6:14 AM, tropo said:

I hate fresh markets and I hate Big C, but if I was forced to make a choice I would choose Big C, where prices are displayed and you can pick up and inspect everything. Buying power probably offers better deals at Big C too and the selection is far greater. It's also probably fresher at Big C than the "fresh markets" as it is air conditioned.

 

 

Far to be true it seems that prices are often cheaper at markets.

 

 

[tropo]

33 minutes ago, abab said:

 

 

Far to be true it seems that prices are often cheaper at markets.

 

 

 

Either way, I won't save much buying vegetables at markets as I don't eat enough of them to make much difference, and I eat a lot of imported fruit you can't buy at markets.

[abab]

2 minutes ago, tropo said:

Either way, I won't save much buying vegetables at markets as I don't eat enough of them to make much difference, and I eat a lot of imported fruit you can't buy at markets.

 

I don't care too and anyway always prefer frozen vegs that 90% of the time have more vitamins than market vegs.

 

But I was talking from a Thai point of view :-)

 

 

[tropo]

2 minutes ago, abab said:

 

I don't care too and anyway always prefer frozen vegs that 90% of the time have more vitamins than market vegs.

 

But I was talking from a Thai point of view :-)

 

 

 

You'll find most of the fruit & veggies sold in the supermarkets are bought by Thai people, so it's not only foreigners who prefer shopping in air-conditioned comfort. The way some present the situation here it's as though only foolish foreigners with more money than sense shop at supermarkets.

[Ahab]

Fresh markets are one of the great benefits of living in Thailand. I have always loved them. Freshly slaughtered meats (get there early) and plenty of fresh vegetables (always rinse all vegetables before eating/cooking.   Even if it is organically grown there are risks associated with them, exactly what kind of "fertilizer" do you think organic farming uses? It is $h1T and this brings the risk of ecoli bacteria, so wash organic vegetables as well. It is not that I will not shop at a large grocery store it is just that it will just not be very often.

[craigt3365]

5 hours ago, Ahab said:

Fresh markets are one of the great benefits of living in Thailand. I have always loved them. Freshly slaughtered meats (get there early) and plenty of fresh vegetables (always rinse all vegetables before eating/cooking.   Even if it is organically grown there are risks associated with them, exactly what kind of "fertilizer" do you think organic farming uses? It is $h1T and this brings the risk of ecoli bacteria, so wash organic vegetables as well. It is not that I will not shop at a large grocery store it is just that it will just not be very often.

There are lots of articles regarding the amount of pesticides in veggies here.  Even the government has issued reports about this.  Referring to fresh markets specifically.  I would think Makro would have a higher standard, but you never know.  Always soak your veggies in a solution before eating/cooking.  I've read beans are some of the worst.  Some 90% are toxic.

[jak2002003]

1 minute ago, craigt3365 said:

There are lots of articles regarding the amount of pesticides in veggies here.  Even the government has issued reports about this.  Referring to fresh markets specifically.  I would think Makro would have a higher standard, but you never know.  Always soak your veggies in a solution before eating/cooking.  I've read beans are some of the worst.  Some 90% are toxic.

Not just beans.... rice has high levels of arsenic....

 

http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm352569.htm

 

What 'solution' are you advising people to soak their vegetables and fruit in?

 

You do know that most are the pesticides and other chemicals from fertilizers etc are actually taken up by the plant roots into the flesh of the fruit and vegetables, so washing or soaking them is not going to help (it will only remove some of the residue on the vegetable skin, which in all likelihood is a very small percentage of what the vegetable contains).

 

 

[craigt3365]

9 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

Not just beans.... rice has high levels of arsenic....

 

http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm352569.htm

 

What 'solution' are you advising people to soak their vegetables and fruit in?

 

You do know that most are the pesticides and other chemicals from fertilizers etc are actually taken up by the plant roots into the flesh of the fruit and vegetables, so washing or soaking them is not going to help (it will only remove some of the residue on the vegetable skin, which in all likelihood is a very small percentage of what the vegetable contains).

 

 

Yes, I know soaking isn't going to help 100%.  But I've also read these fresh markets spray their produce with toxic stuff to make them last longer and stay fresh.  My wife uses some sort of veggie wash that she gets from one of the grocery stores here.  I'll try to find out more.

[Ahab]

24 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

There are lots of articles regarding the amount of pesticides in veggies here.  Even the government has issued reports about this.  Referring to fresh markets specifically.  I would think Makro would have a higher standard, but you never know.  Always soak your veggies in a solution before eating/cooking.  I've read beans are some of the worst.  Some 90% are toxic.

How many people have died after eating beans? The answer is zero. Agree that you should always rinse vegetables before cooking/eating, but your worries about pesticides and toxic beans is in my opinion slightly over the top. Which is fine, some people need to worry about things that in reality have a very low chance of ever affecting anyone's health. If I picked up a bunch of greens that smelled of pesticides I would put it down and move on, but I have never seen that.

 

To each his own.

[Ahab]

26 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

Not just beans.... rice has high levels of arsenic....

 

http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm352569.htm

 

What 'solution' are you advising people to soak their vegetables and fruit in?

 

You do know that most are the pesticides and other chemicals from fertilizers etc are actually taken up by the plant roots into the flesh of the fruit and vegetables, so washing or soaking them is not going to help (it will only remove some of the residue on the vegetable skin, which in all likelihood is a very small percentage of what the vegetable contains).

 

 

Rice has naturally occurring arsenic, which is also found in trace amounts in most well water. Not harmful for most people. The level of arsenic in the highest areas of SE Asia is measureable in parts per billion, while the safe level determined by health agencies is given in parts per million (orders of magnitude lower than the safe levels). Worry about things that matter, and this is a hint "naturally occurring arsenic in trace amounts is not one of those things".

[craigt3365]

57 minutes ago, Ahab said:

How many people have died after eating beans? The answer is zero. Agree that you should always rinse vegetables before cooking/eating, but your worries about pesticides and toxic beans is in my opinion slightly over the top. Which is fine, some people need to worry about things that in reality have a very low chance of ever affecting anyone's health. If I picked up a bunch of greens that smelled of pesticides I would put it down and move on, but I have never seen that.

 

To each his own.

Some of us do go a bit further than others regardingtrying to eat healthy. Studies have shown the dangers. Some tend to discount thses. To each his own. 

 

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/health/natural-health/pesticides/index.htm

. The risk from pesticides on conventional produce varies from very low to very high, depending on the type of produce and on the country where it’s grown. The differences can be dramatic. For instance, eating one serving of green beans from the U.S. is 200 times riskier than eating a serving of U.S.-grown broccoli.

[tropo]

2 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

Yes, I know soaking isn't going to help 100%.  But I've also read these fresh markets spray their produce with toxic stuff to make them last longer and stay fresh.  My wife uses some sort of veggie wash that she gets from one of the grocery stores here.  I'll try to find out more.

That's the biggest problem I see with fresh markets. Stall holders are to invested in their products and will try to hold on to them as long as possible. In big supermarkets they date everything - if it's over they throw it out.

 

How do you know you're not purchasing double dead meat? If the animal dies from some disease just before market, will they throw it out.

[craigt3365]

29 minutes ago, tropo said:

That's the biggest problem I see with fresh markets. Stall holders are to invested in their products and will try to hold on to them as long as possible. In big supermarkets they date everything - if it's over they throw it out.

 

How do you know you're not purchasing double dead meat? If the animal dies from some disease just before market, will they throw it out.

They had a case a few years ago of a market that was selling chickens that had died on the farm.  Yuck.  Pretty much guaranteed Makro wouldn't do that...if they knew anyway! LOL

[tropo]

1 hour ago, craigt3365 said:

They had a case a few years ago of a market that was selling chickens that had died on the farm.  Yuck.  Pretty much guaranteed Makro wouldn't do that...if they knew anyway! LOL

 

 

 

Even if they don't sell them as fresh meat, they could cook them on street carts. With the right assortment of spices, it will taste ok.

 

In the Philippines they have a public slaughter area at most big public markets where the animals need to be for 24 hours before they are slaughtered, to ensure people aren't selling dead meat. I don't know what they do here.

Edited February 15, 2017 by tropo

[bow]

Thai restaurants, including the expensive ones, get their food from the fresh markets. They do not go to big c. 

[craigt3365]

7 minutes ago, bow said:

Thai restaurants, including the expensive ones, get their food from the fresh markets. They do not go to big c. 

And the high end ones go to Makro.  I see the chefs walking around there quite often, helping to pick out the good produce, etc.

[bow]

1 minute ago, craigt3365 said:

And the high end ones go to Makro.  I see the chefs walking around there quite often, helping to pick out the good produce, etc.

True, for some stuff, not the basic things. 

[craigt3365]

14 minutes ago, bow said:

True, for some stuff, not the basic things. 

I'm at the big Makro store here in Pattaya at least once a week.  I see the big restaurants there with trucks to take the stuff back. I'd say a bit more than basics.  I've yet to see a chef in uniform at a fresh market.

[jak2002003]

7 hours ago, Ahab said:

Rice has naturally occurring arsenic, which is also found in trace amounts in most well water. Not harmful for most people. The level of arsenic in the highest areas of SE Asia is measureable in parts per billion, while the safe level determined by health agencies is given in parts per million (orders of magnitude lower than the safe levels). Worry about things that matter, and this is a hint "naturally occurring arsenic in trace amounts is not one of those things".

Arsenic levels in rice is a SERIOUS CONCERN and does matter.  It's a serious concern for millions of people who rely on rice as a staple part of their diet... which includes here in Thailand. 

 

The levels in rice are far higher than would occur naturally and the problem is getting worse as arsenic levels in the environment are increasing due to human activities...... from rice being grown in contaminated water with artificially high levels of arsenic from pesticides, fertilizers, leaching from rocks and the soil, industrial pollution etc. 

 

Rice accumulates a considerable amount of inorganic arsenic.. the most harmful kind. 

 

Over the years the level of arsenic accumulates in the human body... and can cause serious health problems from certain kinds of cancer, vascular disease, hypertension, heart disease and type 2 diabetes.  In children and teenagers arsenic has been linked to impaired concentration and learning difficulties, reduced intelligence and social competence. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ahab]

9 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

 

For instance, eating one serving of green beans from the U.S. is 200 times riskier than eating a serving of U.S.-grown broccoli.

My point is what does 200 times more risky mean?  I don't see people choking and dying as they eat a serving of green bean while people eating broccoli show no effects. I don't see anyone with serious health issues because they have eaten vegetables, and that is kind of my point.  OK the green beans are 200 times more risky, but this doesn't cause any effects.  No one wants to eat pesticides, but unless you live on a farm and grow your own food you may be eating trace amounts, but those trace amounts have no serious effects, and the potential effects are overblown.

[balo]

7 hours ago, bow said:

Thai restaurants, including the expensive ones, get their food from the fresh markets. They do not go to big c. 

 

They use something called a nose , they smell if it's fresh .  No need to look at expiration dates. 

 

 

 

[tropo]

8 hours ago, bow said:

Thai restaurants, including the expensive ones, get their food from the fresh markets. They do not go to big c. 

 

In Foodland they go to the refrigerators in the store to get fresh produce to cook. I'm pretty sure that most restaurants I go to have professional restaurant suppliers that deliver all their produce and don't walk around fresh markets hoping they can find something fresh and uncontaminated.

[tropo]

 

 

7 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

Arsenic levels in rice is a SERIOUS CONCERN and does matter.  It's a serious concern for millions of people who rely on rice as a staple part of their diet... which includes here in Thailand. 

 

The levels in rice are far higher than would occur naturally and the problem is getting worse as arsenic levels in the environment are increasing due to human activities...... from rice being grown in contaminated water with artificially high levels of arsenic from pesticides, fertilizers, leaching from rocks and the soil, industrial pollution etc. 

 

Rice accumulates a considerable amount of inorganic arsenic.. the most harmful kind. 

 

Over the years the level of arsenic accumulates in the human body... and can cause serious health problems from certain kinds of cancer, vascular disease, hypertension, heart disease and type 2 diabetes.  In children and teenagers arsenic has been linked to impaired concentration and learning difficulties, reduced intelligence and social competence. 

 

 

1

You've named most of the diseases that most people eventually die from. I think you'll be hard pressed to show any research that proves it's the arsenic in rice causing cancer, vascular disease, hypertension, heart disease and type 2 diabetes.

 

Unfortunately, hundreds of different chemicals get the distinction of causing the diseases you've named here. It could make one frightened to eat anything at all, and we'll all starve to death instead.

 

 

Edited February 15, 2017 by tropo

[abab]

6 hours ago, tropo said:

In Foodland they go to the refrigerators in the store to get fresh produce to cook. I'm pretty sure that most restaurants I go to have professional restaurant suppliers that deliver all their produce and don't walk around fresh markets hoping they can find something fresh and uncontaminated.

 

 

What do you mean ? You are dreaming that restaurants have specific better suppliers ?!

 

 

 

 

[craigt3365]

10 hours ago, Ahab said:

My point is what does 200 times more risky mean?  I don't see people choking and dying as they eat a serving of green bean while people eating broccoli show no effects. I don't see anyone with serious health issues because they have eaten vegetables, and that is kind of my point.  OK the green beans are 200 times more risky, but this doesn't cause any effects.  No one wants to eat pesticides, but unless you live on a farm and grow your own food you may be eating trace amounts, but those trace amounts have no serious effects, and the potential effects are overblown.

Kinda like saying "I don't see people dying after smoking a cigarette".  Research the long term effect of pesticides.  Silent Spring is a great book to read for education.

[jak2002003]

9 hours ago, tropo said:

 

 

You've named most of the diseases that most people eventually die from. I think you'll be hard pressed to show any research that proves it's the arsenic in rice causing cancer, vascular disease, hypertension, heart disease and type 2 diabetes.

 

Unfortunately, hundreds of different chemicals get the distinction of causing the diseases you've named here. It could make one frightened to eat anything at all, and we'll all starve to death instead.

 

 

Hard pressed er?

 

https://scholar.google.co.th/scholar?q=arsenic+rice+"''scientific+evidence''"&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi_2cXY45PSAhXJP48KHefBCf0QgQMIGDAA

[tropo]

2 hours ago, jak2002003 said:

Hard pressed er?

 

https://scholar.google.co.th/scholar?q=arsenic+rice+"''scientific+evidence''"&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi_2cXY45PSAhXJP48KHefBCf0QgQMIGDAA

 

Yeah, hard pressed. Proving there's trace arsenic in rice doesn't prove that people are dying of those general degenerative diseases (that kill most people on earth), from eating rice. The fact that people who don't eat rice at all are dying from the same diseases should give you a clue.

 

It takes a lifetime to succumb to those diseases, and you conclude it's because of the arsenic in rice?

 

It's like concluding that flies create garbage because you find them on the garbage.

[tropo]

6 hours ago, abab said:

 

 

What do you mean ? You are dreaming that restaurants have specific better suppliers ?!

 

 

1

You think I dream about fresh markets at night? LOL

 

Yes, big restaurant chains have better suppliers than local market stall holders... and get better prices too. Sure, small Thai restaurants will be going down to local markets.

 

Can you imagine the purchasing manager of MK, or Fuji going down to the local fresh markets for his veggies? LOL

Edited February 16, 2017 by tropo

[digbeth]

1 hour ago, tropo said:

You think I dream about fresh markets at night? LOL

 

Yes, big restaurant chains have better suppliers than local market stall holders... and get better prices too. Sure, small Thai restaurants will be going down to local markets.

 

Can you imagine the purchasing manager of MK, or Fuji going down to the local fresh markets for his veggies? LOL

 

Talking generally here, there are suppliers that deliver direct from their source, but most of the vegs in Thailand go through the same wholesale market

 

All the supermarket, fresh market and restaurant get their produce from the big wholesale market like Talad Thai in Pathum Thani north of Bangkok, go there at 3-4AM and you'll see all the trucks from the supermarket picking up their vegetables along with the small guys in their mobile grocery store on the back of the pick up truck

 

The difference between the Supermarket and the little guys on the back of a pickup or the market is how long they keep the vegetables for, and how they transport it from the wholesale market, 

 

Not all the vendor down your local fresh market get to drive to Bangkok and back every morning, they might get it from a middle man locally, and the more hands it pass through, the less days the goods stay fresh for... and the bigger supermarket can afford to test for pesticides and pack it in nice plastic and mark it up