Yingluck appears at first hearing of rice pledging scheme trial

[robblok]

Junta lovers have a topic in which they can finally dump steam!

And the fanatical PTP and red shirt supporters are nowhere to be seen because its hard to defend this mess. All their arguments have been destroyed before so they no longer try.

Well if your post #4 is destroying an argument, i dont suppose you ever got close to the school debating team

He was also nowhere to be seen after the countless scandals in the past months where uniform men were involved....

Guess you can't read.. I have actually posted in one of the Park scandals that refunding bribes and relabeling them as donations is like robbing a bank and giving the money back and acting like no crime has been committed.

But hey don't let the fact that I hate corruption on all sides come in the way of a good personal attack, when you can't refute the facts I posted about the failings of the rice scam.

[Skywalker69]

Junta lovers have a topic in which they can finally dump steam!

And the fanatical PTP and red shirt supporters are nowhere to be seen because its hard to defend this mess. All their arguments have been destroyed before so they no longer try.

Well if your post #4 is destroying an argument, i dont suppose you ever got close to the school debating team

He was also nowhere to be seen after the countless scandals in the past months where uniform men were involved....

This thread is about Yingluck and the rice scheme. So tell us what good did the Yingluck Government do for the Thai pelope? They lowerd the company taxes, but what did they do for the poor people of Thailand?

[Baerboxer]

Corruption may be happened like any other welfare schemes in the world. Even British and American wasting lot of money for Agricultural,Education and Health care subsidies.

But this is one of the best schemes for Thailand to distribute the wealth the rural agricultural community never enjoyed same status as Bangkokians. It may be mismanaged, but helped Thailand to produce plenty of rice for the world. That made the less hungry world.

If this scheme is property implemented every Thai will economically benefit. I have seen many rural could able to buy pickup trucks of their own, and build their houses after this scheme is implemented.

Sad that it has been given political color and one of the good schemes is removed.

You are joking right? Satire?

Or are you genuinely so out of touch with how the scheme actually worked and how little ever went to the poor. A scheme for producing more wealth for the chosen ones who supported the Shin clan. All touted as self financing, not a budgeted government subsidy, on the premise Thailand could control a world commodity. The problems simply became worse and worse as the corruption escalated and the schemes Chair did bugger all about anything, not even bothering to attend any meetings.

Could you provide details of all those rural Thais you've seen who were able to buy pick up trucks and build houses as a direct result of this scheme?

[SOTIRIOS]

...I don't see hundreds.....

...but anyway....recall how they say she gained support in the first place....$$$.....

...I guess the rice scheme was to recoup some of that $$$....

[Baerboxer]

This thread is about Yingluck and the rice scheme. So tell us what good did the Yingluck Government do for the Thai pelope? They lowerd the company taxes, but what did they do for the poor people of Thailand?

They lied and cheated them, same as all previous incarnations of her brother's family owned political vehicles.

But, hey, they won elections, so they are allowed to do whatever they want and everyone should simply believe their blatant and contradictory lies. Well, according to the Shin fans that is.

[lucky11]

Corruption may be happened like any other welfare schemes in the world. Even British and American wasting lot of money for Agricultural,Education and Health care subsidies.

But this is one of the best schemes for Thailand to distribute the wealth the rural agricultural community never enjoyed same status as Bangkokians. It may be mismanaged, but helped Thailand to produce plenty of rice for the world. That made the less hungry world.

If this scheme is property implemented every Thai will economically benefit. I have seen many rural could able to buy pickup trucks of their own, and build their houses after this scheme is implemented.

Sad that it has been given political color and one of the good schemes is removed.

Is this a parody piece, or are you being serious?

[Baerboxer]

Guaranteed slanderous comments today from the people that have been mysteriously quiet as of late. But now that Yingluck is in the news.

Doesn't change her negligence though, does it?

Or do you think never attending a meeting, ignoring all warnings of the corruption and mismanagement, failing to produce any accounts or demonstrate any real financial management and repeatedly lying (or speaking from ignorance if you take a kind view) are acceptable?

[marinediscoking]

I can only see about 12 people--4 camera men, 4 rich well dressed ladies with 2 bunches of roses-2 body guards, 2 passers by.

Where were all the rice farmers wives, OTOP stall holders, Mushroom growers, and managers of all the top fashion shops.

Hundreds What a load of BULL.

Sorry to burst your hate bubble. Taken outside the courthouse today.

[NCC1701A]

in most countries, when protesters or supporters are going their thing, government counterintelligence agents will photograph the protesters to build a database of people with certain political views.

In this case, it is counter NO intelligence.

[Baerboxer]

Junta lovers have a topic in which they can finally dump steam!

People who criticize the dubious Shin clan, their cronies and their various governments that all seem to be about creating their own private kleptocracy are not automatically Junta lovers.

Anymore than Junta haters are automatically Shin admirers. But the Shin admirers love to pretend they are, because they've no way to defend the indefensible.

[smutcakes]

Junta lovers have a topic in which they can finally dump steam!

And the fanatical PTP and red shirt supporters are nowhere to be seen because its hard to defend this mess. All their arguments have been destroyed before so they no longer try.

Well if your post #4 is destroying an argument, i dont suppose you ever got close to the school debating team

I don't see you countering it with arguments but attacking the me personally.. I was taught that was ad hominem and not a good thing to do.

There is not really much point in trying to refute your points, as you or I simply do not know what is true and what is not. I dont doubt there was corruption in the scheme, but i expect there is corruption in every single civil service procument in the whole country since the begginning of time.

The thing that grinds mine and I expect many peoples gears is the fact that the justice is the country is so selective. If all corruption was punished i would be happy with Yingluck having her day in court.

[ldiablo]

@Baerboxer. I do not deny that she was a useless PM, because she was. My question was more to the point of where certain individuals have been yourself included on the topics of things like government to purchase 100000 tons of rubber from farmers or foreign investment down 78% under the Prayut regime just to name 2.

[robblok]

@Baerboxer. I do not deny that she was a useless PM, because she was. My question was more to the point of where certain individuals have been yourself included on the topics of things like government to purchase 100000 tons of rubber from farmers or foreign investment down 78% under the Prayut regime just to name 2.

I have been posting in the rubber topic that i find it stupid and just as bad as the rice program to buy up rubber above market prices (got a lot of flack for that actually). I am against those kind of agricultural subsidies always (give then something per rai and limit it to small farmers only). Also in other topics about corruption I am always against corruption no matter from who.. but it seems that certain members prefer personal attacks over going against the facts as those facts cant be denied.

[Baerboxer]

Junta lovers have a topic in which they can finally dump steam!

And the fanatical PTP and red shirt supporters are nowhere to be seen because its hard to defend this mess. All their arguments have been destroyed before so they no longer try.

Well if your post #4 is destroying an argument, i dont suppose you ever got close to the school debating team

Anything intelligent to post? Like refuting what he comment in his post 4 perhaps?

Or do you think the scheme was a great success, the poor farmers benefited and Yingluck did a magnificent job without even having to attend and chair one single meeting or produce one set of accounts?

Go on, treat us to the wisdom you think you have and demonstrate your ability to articulate all that was right in this scheme rather than trying to deflect and insult the messengers.

Perhaps you could include a cost benefit analysis?

[marinediscoking]

More from her supporters:

[ginjag]

I can only see about 12 people--4 camera men, 4 rich well dressed ladies with 2 bunches of roses-2 body guards, 2 passers by.

Where were all the rice farmers wives, OTOP stall holders, Mushroom growers, and managers of all the top fashion shops.

Hundreds What a load of BULL.

Sorry to burst your hate bubble. Taken outside the courthouse today.

All I see is a blurred propaganda photo,-------HATE ?? bubble ??? for what do I hate here for ?? I admire her stupidity for allowing her brother to manipulate his own sister into a diabolical situation.

The lady never did me any harm, but as an ex government officer I frown upon her inability to govern as sworn in to do ..

[ginjag]

More from her supporters:

Giving her RICE

[Jim walker]

Someone trying to help the rural poor farmers in Thailand ridiculous no one is poor in Bangkok plenty rice always and that is Thailand Bangkok if its not Bangkok it might as well be in Cambodia.

[Prbkk]

lovely to see that so many decent people are not intimidated and come out to wish her well...

[robblok]

There is not really much point in trying to refute your points, as you or I simply do not know what is true and what is not. I dont doubt there was corruption in the scheme, but i expect there is corruption in every single civil service procument in the whole country since the begginning of time.

The thing that grinds mine and I expect many peoples gears is the fact that the justice is the country is so selective. If all corruption was punished i would be happy with Yingluck having her day in court.

But we do know the facts..

fact is that the 800 billion was never included in the budget as it was supposed to be self financing (even though all the experts said it was impossible). In no country in the world can you take an amount equal to the health budget of the country (around 200 billion in Thailand) and keep it off books. So that is gross negligence

We also know that she was late with paying even before the street protests and we also know she made no provisions for paying when she stepped down.

The corruption if proven in court will add to the charges going against her but negligence is easy to prove with her not adding such a huge amount of money to the budget. Any accountant will tell you that you will have to include things in budget when the costs clear. Now it was quite clear that it failed and how much money was used but still nothing was included in the budget.. she would have been convicted in civilized countries too for such a feat.. i can see the headlines in my country.. pm keeps an amount equal to the health budget for a year off books in fact hiding it.You can be sure that the guy would face persecution for such a mismanagement.

That is just not done and damages the fiscal discipline, its just imaginable. Just imagine Obama having a budget like that off books hiding the costs of it..

[smutcakes]

There is not really much point in trying to refute your points, as you or I simply do not know what is true and what is not. I dont doubt there was corruption in the scheme, but i expect there is corruption in every single civil service procument in the whole country since the begginning of time.

The thing that grinds mine and I expect many peoples gears is the fact that the justice is the country is so selective. If all corruption was punished i would be happy with Yingluck having her day in court.

But we do know the facts..

fact is that the 800 billion was never included in the budget as it was supposed to be self financing (even though all the experts said it was impossible). In no country in the world can you take an amount equal to the health budget of the country (around 200 billion in Thailand) and keep it off books. So that is gross negligence

We also know that she was late with paying even before the street protests and we also know she made no provisions for paying when she stepped down.

The corruption if proven in court will add to the charges going against her but negligence is easy to prove with her not adding such a huge amount of money to the budget. Any accountant will tell you that you will have to include things in budget when the costs clear. Now it was quite clear that it failed and how much money was used but still nothing was included in the budget.. she would have been convicted in civilized countries too for such a feat.. i can see the headlines in my country.. pm keeps an amount equal to the health budget for a year off books in fact hiding it.You can be sure that the guy would face persecution for such a mismanagement.

That is just not done and damages the fiscal discipline, its just imaginable. Just imagine Obama having a budget like that off books hiding the costs of it..

I am no accountant, so please can you explain exactly what you mean by 'keep it off the books' and also that this was the case here?

If this was such a clear issue why was it not raised at the time as being illegal?

[Baerboxer]

@Baerboxer. I do not deny that she was a useless PM, because she was. My question was more to the point of where certain individuals have been yourself included on the topics of things like government to purchase 100000 tons of rubber from farmers or foreign investment down 78% under the Prayut regime just to name 2.

I wasn't aware you were the person who decides who should comment on which topics.

Rubber subsidy or not, it is the governments decision, as any subsidy. But it is a subsidy, not dressed up as a self financing scheme and then ran so corrupt that most of the money was siphoned off and never reached those who it was alleged to benefit.

And, I do believe foreign investment was also down, about the same sort of % - little higher from memory, during the last year of the PTP regime. Would you invest in Thailand? PTP's bungled flood mismanagement, the growing concern about the rice scheme costs, the political uncertainty caused by the mass protests against the Amnesty whitewash bill trickery etc.

Notice some of the usual "we don't support the Shins but.........." brigade are conspicuous by their absence on certain posts. But, that is their privilege, of course.

[Baerboxer]

Corruption may be happened like any other welfare schemes in the world. Even British and American wasting lot of money for Agricultural,Education and Health care subsidies.

But this is one of the best schemes for Thailand to distribute the wealth the rural agricultural community never enjoyed same status as Bangkokians. It may be mismanaged, but helped Thailand to produce plenty of rice for the world. That made the less hungry world.

If this scheme is property implemented every Thai will economically benefit. I have seen many rural could able to buy pickup trucks of their own, and build their houses after this scheme is implemented.

Sad that it has been given political color and one of the good schemes is removed.

1) It was self financing.. not taken into the national budget but cost 800 billion.. around 200 billion per year (that is the same budget as the health budget for Thailand)

2) It did not help the small farmers at all.

3) Payments were not made and farmers killed themselves because the government could not payout because it had no money for it. They had hoped to pay it with a 2 trillion loan from China. (this was before the street protests)

4) when she stepped down she did not make any provisions for the farmers thus delaying payment even more (during the street protests)

5) there was no rotting rice according to YL.. now we know better

6) No corruption.. now know better as the commerce minister has been indited for fake G2G deals.

7) When the program blew up it helped drop the rice price even more hurting the farmers even more.

Guess it depends what kind of glasses you look through..

bla bla blqa

You look through the junta's glasses.

Good job, parrot man , you repeated it word by word ....

And do you have any intelligent comments to refute his points?

Speaking of parrots, if the cap fits ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Jim walker]

Time the beloved peoples soldier Junta party officials came out to arrest all these people cheering Yingluck and wishing her well in her political show trial for the world to watch and take interest in the outcome of another Thai prime minister to be disposed by the Thai army. My I join your fellow cheering fans and wish you well Yingluck .

[Baerboxer]

Time the beloved peoples soldier Junta party officials came out to arrest all these people cheering Yingluck and wishing her well in her political show trial for the world to watch and take interest in the outcome of another Thai prime minister to be disposed by the Thai army. My I join your fellow cheering fans and wish you well Yingluck .

You actually think she was the real PM, made decisions, and did a good job as PM, self appointed DM and self appointed chair of the rice scheme then Jim?

Perhaps you can explain how lying, failing to attend any meetings you appointed yourself to chair and apparently not bothering to keep a single set of accounts (or be willing to reveal them publicly) isn't negligence? Yingluck's defense teams would love to know and it would help them change from repeating the same old mantras and delaying tactics.

Or have you been imbibing brother Johnnie's produce a tad too much?

[Baerboxer]

lovely to see that so many decent people are not intimidated and come out to wish her well...

for one who is intelligent, often well balanced, and I dare say a decent person, I find it odd that you defend the pretty of a very dubious clan who was no more than her criminal brother's latest stooge.

An actress, and a pretty good one on occasion, those crocodile tears; but prone to gaffaws like being caught bursting out laughing after crying without realizing the camera was still on. An accomplished liar who probably does believe their own PR that she's never ever done anything wrong ever. Had she achieved the slight of hand and got her brother back whitewashed of all convictions, outstanding court cases and charges associated with bail jumping, I dread to think what would have happened.

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

We all make wrong decisions , some larger than others , and some have consequences we just don't see at the time,

And sometimes people like this are corrupt to the core, feel that they are above the law, and need to get punished for their crimes!!!

[marinediscoking]

There is not really much point in trying to refute your points, as you or I simply do not know what is true and what is not. I dont doubt there was corruption in the scheme, but i expect there is corruption in every single civil service procument in the whole country since the begginning of time.

The thing that grinds mine and I expect many peoples gears is the fact that the justice is the country is so selective. If all corruption was punished i would be happy with Yingluck having her day in court.

But we do know the facts..

fact is that the 800 billion was never included in the budget as it was supposed to be self financing (even though all the experts said it was impossible). In no country in the world can you take an amount equal to the health budget of the country (around 200 billion in Thailand) and keep it off books. So that is gross negligence

We also know that she was late with paying even before the street protests and we also know she made no provisions for paying when she stepped down.

The corruption if proven in court will add to the charges going against her but negligence is easy to prove with her not adding such a huge amount of money to the budget. Any accountant will tell you that you will have to include things in budget when the costs clear. Now it was quite clear that it failed and how much money was used but still nothing was included in the budget.. she would have been convicted in civilized countries too for such a feat.. i can see the headlines in my country.. pm keeps an amount equal to the health budget for a year off books in fact hiding it.You can be sure that the guy would face persecution for such a mismanagement.

That is just not done and damages the fiscal discipline, its just imaginable. Just imagine Obama having a budget like that off books hiding the costs of it..

Actually the united states post office is "a self financing program" however this does not all happen. In 2012 the post office had to get $15.9 billion from the government to cover losses. Should Obama like Yingluck be tried on the same charges? I'm sure he did not go to any of the USPS meetings.

[Eric Loh]

lovely to see that so many decent people are not intimidated and come out to wish her well...

for one who is intelligent, often well balanced, and I dare say a decent person, I find it odd that you defend the pretty of a very dubious clan who was no more than her criminal brother's latest stooge.

An actress, and a pretty good one on occasion, those crocodile tears; but prone to gaffaws like being caught bursting out laughing after crying without realizing the camera was still on. An accomplished liar who probably does believe their own PR that she's never ever done anything wrong ever. Had she achieved the slight of hand and got her brother back whitewashed of all convictions, outstanding court cases and charges associated with bail jumping, I dread to think what would have happened.

You also said that she will fled like her brother and that didn't happen. Guess that puts what you wrote in the category of BS.

[LannaGuy]

lovely to see that so many decent people are not intimidated and come out to wish her well...

as do the silent millions