“Good guys in, bad guys out”, says Thailand Immigration chief

[ToS2014]

"...complete with a cartoon video which whilst informative..." Maybe this was intended to all the IO's so that clarity could be gleaned in the new rule(s). I've never seen a collective bunch of adults enjoying cartoons as much as the current populace does.

[Youaredoomed]

I bet that pervy peado 'Buddhist Scholar' they nabbed up in Chiang Mai recently had all his paperwork in order......

[dageurreotype]

Since the Erawan shrine bombing in August, Thai Imm has tightened screws. Unfortunately, they don't quite get it right - about who are the good guys and who are bad. It's like the Thai propensity to think all white-skinned Europeans speak English well, and therefore should be considered good English teachers. I met two guys, a Finn and a Frenchman who had scored good jobs at Bkk's best U, teaching English. Neither could speak worth a damn, but the people hiring didn't know or didn't care.

Here's how that applies to the most recent screw-tightening by the Junta: They think farang who aren't overtly polite or who are casual in their attire are baddies, and similarly think farang who dress well and/or have classy Thai girlfriends/wives accompany them to visa renewals, are fine. They can't see through the glossy image to see the substance.

'Since the Erawan shrine bombing in August, Thai Imm has tightened screws.' Have been ordered to 'tighten screws' but then hit upon it being simply another idea to extort more bribes'. That's more like it

[dageurreotype]

Will these new rules have any effect for the hardened existing over stayers?

Most have over stayed for a reason, usually not having proof of funds to get an extension.

If they don't have money, then how can they pay the fine, return home to get the correct Visa, then deposit funds in a Thai bank.

I think most will chance their arm and continue to remain in the hope of never being caught.

A particular case in mind is a German guy I know who came to Thailand 30 years ago on a Tourist Visa, got married, and never returned home.

He has no income other than a little money his elderly parents send him and his wife earns. His passport expired years ago.

He doesn't have any options, so I doubt the new rules will have any effect to his situation.

I'll bet there are a few in exactly the same situation.

I don't really care what happens to guys like this...let him live his little life as far as I'm concerned. He's made his bed and if he's happy in it fine. I also won't have any sympathy for him if he ever gets found out, for whatever reason, and ends up spending his days in IDC in Bangkok if his elderly parents can't or won't bail him out.

And this old guy's situation impacts on your life, how? exactly?

[surfinglife]

I'm guessing the 500 Baht per day is still in play for people who overstay a few days

That's what I'm thinking, too, despite the option the authorities have. I just can't imagine threatening a tourist with a five year ban for overstaying a week.

Why not? There is absolutely no reason why anybody should overstay. If a tourist wants to stay a week longer he can go to Immigration and get it formalised, can't he?

[Valentine]

There seems to be a lot of discussion on people being 'unintentional' overstayers, down on their luck, can't pay the B20,000 overstay fine, can't afford to replace an expired passport, can't afford a visa/renewal/border run, or can't afford the fare home.

These are EXACTLY the people Thailand doesn't need, or want. They are not spending as tourists normally do. What little they spend to survive is not worth having in the Thai economy, so get rid of them.

If you owned a hotel/restaurant, would you prefer to have guests who spend up big on food and drink every night, or those who buy a fried noodles and share a small Leo between three?

Of what possible value can somebody who can't afford a B20,000 fine or ticket home be to Thailand? Allow him to stay because of his cultural input?

It's easy to comply. Their rules may not be what you think they should be, or would like them to be, but they are the rules.

Your sense of compassion is underwhelming. There may be people like that who originally spent big as they had good jobs, married a local girl, had a family, but now fallen on hard times. Do they now become criminals & uprooted from a loving family because they are now forced to live cheaply?

[OMGImInPattaya]

Will these new rules have any effect for the hardened existing over stayers?

Most have over stayed for a reason, usually not having proof of funds to get an extension.

If they don't have money, then how can they pay the fine, return home to get the correct Visa, then deposit funds in a Thai bank.

I think most will chance their arm and continue to remain in the hope of never being caught.

A particular case in mind is a German guy I know who came to Thailand 30 years ago on a Tourist Visa, got married, and never returned home.

He has no income other than a little money his elderly parents send him and his wife earns. His passport expired years ago.

He doesn't have any options, so I doubt the new rules will have any effect to his situation.

I'll bet there are a few in exactly the same situation.

I don't really care what happens to guys like this...let him live his little life as far as I'm concerned. He's made his bed and if he's happy in it fine. I also won't have any sympathy for him if he ever gets found out, for whatever reason, and ends up spending his days in IDC in Bangkok if his elderly parents can't or won't bail him out.

And this old guy's situation impacts on your life, how? exactly?

Always had a little trouble with reading comprehension I guess...that's what I said: [L]let him live his little life as far as I'm concerned. He's made his bed and if he's happy in it fine. It has no direct affect on me, other than the general negative impression of foreigners the authorities get when they apprehend overstayers, that's why I said let him be if he's content with living in the shadows.

[OMGImInPattaya]

There seems to be a lot of discussion on people being 'unintentional' overstayers, down on their luck, can't pay the B20,000 overstay fine, can't afford to replace an expired passport, can't afford a visa/renewal/border run, or can't afford the fare home.

These are EXACTLY the people Thailand doesn't need, or want. They are not spending as tourists normally do. What little they spend to survive is not worth having in the Thai economy, so get rid of them.

If you owned a hotel/restaurant, would you prefer to have guests who spend up big on food and drink every night, or those who buy a fried noodles and share a small Leo between three?

Of what possible value can somebody who can't afford a B20,000 fine or ticket home be to Thailand? Allow him to stay because of his cultural input?

It's easy to comply. Their rules may not be what you think they should be, or would like them to be, but they are the rules.

Your sense of compassion is underwhelming. There may be people like that who originally spent big as they had good jobs, married a local girl, had a family, but now fallen on hard times. Do they now become criminals & uprooted from a loving family because they are now forced to live cheaply?

"Compassion" is over-rated...look where it got the Germans.

[mgjackson69]

Will these new rules have any effect for the hardened existing over stayers?

Most have over stayed for a reason, usually not having proof of funds to get an extension.

If they don't have money, then how can they pay the fine, return home to get the correct Visa, then deposit funds in a Thai bank.

I think most will chance their arm and continue to remain in the hope of never being caught.

A particular case in mind is a German guy I know who came to Thailand 30 years ago on a Tourist Visa, got married, and never returned home.

He has no income other than a little money his elderly parents send him and his wife earns. His passport expired years ago.

He doesn't have any options, so I doubt the new rules will have any effect to his situation.

I'll bet there are a few in exactly the same situation.

I don't really care what happens to guys like this...let him live his little life as far as I'm concerned. He's made his bed and if he's happy in it fine. I also won't have any sympathy for him if he ever gets found out, for whatever reason, and ends up spending his days in IDC in Bangkok if his elderly parents can't or won't bail him out.

And this old guy's situation impacts on your life, how? exactly?

The poster never said the old guy's situation impacted his life.

He said he does not care what happens to guys like this...

I am of the same mind. If that old guy manages to stay in country in his current situation for the rest of his life, so be it.

By the same token, if he gets caught, I am not going feel any sympathy for him, nor waste one second worrying about him.

[TheKnave]

Meanwhile.....Cambodia begs: "Please ramp up the abuse of Thailand's farangs, so we can have the overflow." Perhaps the most dense, obtuse immigration in the developing world. Someone PLEASE explain to them that you DO NOT grow an economy by abusing your cash cows.

The cash cow are real tourists that stay an average of 10 days. People that overstay are overstaying for a reason, they either have problems (no money), working illegally or wanted back home. Anyone that wants to live in Thailand can get a visa.

May we quote you at our immigration office visit:

"ericthai, a genius of note, says that anyone who wants to live in Thailand can get a visa. Please be so kind as to issue mine now. Thank you."

From what orifice did you pull this gem?

Consider any 30 year old, self-supporting, single person, not desirous of employment in Thailand. He/she would like to stay in Thailand. What visa applies?

As for overstayers being no good, that is only recent propaganda. For years, overstaying was a minor offense, punishable by a small fine. Suddenly, its a big deal. Why? Because the people at the top need a scapegoat to deflect attention from their own misdeeds. The idea that overstayers are somehow responsible for major crime is ludicrous. If I were a successful criminal, I would NEVER overstay. I would just enter legally, do my crimes, exit, and repeat as desired.

The Thai public are mostly unaware of Immigration rules, and couldn't care less about overstayers - at least until the junta started whipping them to a xenophobic lather...

Please...

Agree with all of what you say except for the 'If I were a successful criminal, I would NEVER overstay' part. Please refer back to my post on corruption here. Do you think a criminal major/minor would not be aware of the fact that ALL officials here are bribeable? That's why there are so many of them here.

Fair point.

[boomerangutang]

Thai administrations generally have not liked farang. Don't get me wrong, they love when we come here, spend lots of money, then leave. TAT still showcase the most pricey resorts in their multi-million baht ad campaigns. There's an unmentioned reason that Thai administrations don't like farang: because we don't have a cultural taboo against complaining, and are not afraid to speak our minds (to authorities and/or in letters to the Editor, blogs like this, etc.) if something is bothersome. That's un-Thai generally, but particularly it's considered rude by Thais - to see farang criticizing their country. Hopefully, it's constructive criticism. It's human nature to criticize things, and it's often done with affection. For example: brothers and sisters criticizing each other. Or parents finding fault with their children, etc. The increasing tightening of visa rules is a manifestation of the Thai mind-set which can't handle any criticism.

What's the alternative? #1 ease requirements, particularly for native English speakers who are eager and able to teach/tudor English. but also for others, like farang married to Thai women, both of whom are trying valiantly to make it work out for the best for them and their kids. Also, why make it difficult for middle-aged farang (married and unmarried) who most often bring in lots of spending money from outside Thailand. ....and others.

Thailand, you're not going to lose your cultural heritage by enabling farang to stay here long term. If you lose cultural heritage, it's mostly Thais who are doing it. Who is building and populating the malls? Who franchises and goes to 7-11's? Who are forming rock bands in Thailand? It's all Thais. It's Thais (most often cops or army) who own most of the sex venues. It's Thais who drop/dump trash in Thai forests and streams, and who then hire earth-moving equip to level the forests and dam the rivers. It's not farang.

[TheKnave]

Meanwhile.....Cambodia begs: "Please ramp up the abuse of Thailand's farangs, so we can have the overflow." Perhaps the most dense, obtuse immigration in the developing world. Someone PLEASE explain to them that you DO NOT grow an economy by abusing your cash cows.

The cash cow are real tourists that stay an average of 10 days. People that overstay are overstaying for a reason, they either have problems (no money), working illegally or wanted back home. Anyone that wants to live in Thailand can get a visa.

May we quote you at our immigration office visit:

"ericthai, a genius of note, says that anyone who wants to live in Thailand can get a visa. Please be so kind as to issue mine now. Thank you."

From what orifice did you pull this gem?

Consider any 30 year old, self-supporting, single person, not desirous of employment in Thailand. He/she would like to stay in Thailand. What visa applies?

As for overstayers being no good, that is only recent propaganda. For years, overstaying was a minor offense, punishable by a small fine. Suddenly, its a big deal. Why? Because the people at the top need a scapegoat to deflect attention from their own misdeeds. The idea that overstayers are somehow responsible for major crime is ludicrous. If I were a successful criminal, I would NEVER overstay. I would just enter legally, do my crimes, exit, and repeat as desired.

The Thai public are mostly unaware of Immigration rules, and couldn't care less about overstayers - at least until the junta started whipping them to a xenophobic lather...

Please...

For your comment on recent propaganda guess you have not been around Thailand that long. It has been said for years and years and years by immigration if you want to stay in Thailand get the correct visa. I have a few friends that work in immigration they dont care how long you stay just get the correct visa. They feel if you are overstaying you are working illegally. That is their thinking.

As for the 30yr old that wants to stay in Thailand he has a few options such as an Investment visa or Thai elite visa.

You're right the Thai public dont care about overstayers nothing says they care now so dont know where you're getting this the junta is whipping them up.

You're out of your depth.

Believe what you want, but the 'solutions' you propose for the type of person I described (of which there are many) are silly. Investment visa? 10 million baht. Thai Elite? lol...

So you meant to say that any RICH person that wants to stay can get a visa (not that 10 million baht is a lot of money, but it's a barrier to many who could otherwise afford to stay).

Not really interested in the prejudices held by Thai Immigration Officers - I have experienced them first hand, and was not impressed. You keep listening to them, and soon you will be more Thai than anyone on your block.

As for the rest, don't make me embarass you...let's just say I was in Thailand before you could find it on a map...

Cheers.

[Sutty]

Sorry but this is a thread about overstaying and the consequences of such. Not a I've been in Thailand longer than you, so you must listen and agree with me, thread.

[gandalf12]

I have been here like TheKnave for a long time and have no intention of leaving. I have always played by the rules and have never, touch wood, had a problem. Immigration have always been polite contrary to what many people here say and even with the 90 report I have never had a problem. Maybe all the moaners have problems because of their attitude. Like it or not Thailand is not your country. You should respect that and act accordingly. If they ban people with overstays in excess of 90 days good. Unless you are in hospital or too ill to travel there is no excuse apart from stupidity. If you can not travel for medical reasons immigration can be approached and something will be sorted out. This attitude I didn't have the money or I forgot is bloody stupid. It is your responsibility to make sure you have the funds to leave when the time arrives not immigration. Name one country where you can stay as long as you want without repercussions when your visa expires, and I am not talking about you in your home country. I doubt if any of you can. The over stayers are just pushing their luck as they feel they are important and the laws don't apply to them well they do and you are not important.

A day over stay is excusable. Maybe you read the departure day wrong but it is understandable. 90 days or more is not excusable and now they are clamping down on it. Good for them, good for Thailand and good for all of those who abide by the rules.

[gandalf12]

The answer is simple get a visa or a visa exemption. Good for them coming down on this now maybe the rest of us who play by the rules wont have as hard a time of it

What about asylum seekers who cannot return to their country and to whom the visas are outrageously expensive and unaffordable?

Many have paid a fortune to the people who get them in so dont use that as an excuse

[OMGImInPattaya]

The answer is simple get a visa or a visa exemption. Good for them coming down on this now maybe the rest of us who play by the rules wont have as hard a time of it

What about asylum seekers who cannot return to their country and to whom the visas are outrageously expensive and unaffordable?

Many have paid a fortune to the people who get them in so dont use that as an excuse

What about them...economic migrants call themselves "asylum seekers" and get to waltz into any country in the world and claim citizenship?

[gandalf12]

The answer is simple get a visa or a visa exemption. Good for them coming down on this now maybe the rest of us who play by the rules wont have as hard a time of it

What about asylum seekers who cannot return to their country and to whom the visas are outrageously expensive and unaffordable?

Many have paid a fortune to the people who get them in so dont use that as an excuse

What about them...economic migrants call themselves "asylum seekers" and get to waltz into any country in the world and claim citizenship?

Should be kicked out

[elviajero]

yeah yeah. Now for the obvious. What is on the law for over stays less than 90 days? The current 500 baht per day up to max of 20,000 baht? When is a judge involved if at all? A casual overstay of one or two days results in what? Threats of prosecution? Tea money shakedown? I would assume that if less than 90 days the new law doesn't specify anything and the current rules stay in effect, but I hate to assume

IMO nothing has changed in the way that overstayers will be processed if they surrender or are arrested. Like now, if someone is arrested, with less than 90 days overstay, they would be sent to court and the judge would decide the fine and any prison time. As prison time isn't normally handed out the person would just be detained until deportation. The only difference after March 20th is that on the way out of the country they will have their passport stamped with a 5 year ban.

Whether or not immigration will apply discretion in handing out a ban won't be known until after March 20th.

[retarius]

I've lost my enthusiasm for new rules from immigration. From my experience different immigration offices implement the policies differently or not at all. A sum of money may also change the rules. And the government changes its immigration rules like I change my clothes…so if you have overstayed, wait around a bit more and the 'rules' will change again tomorrow, next week, or next month, and may benefit you.

[elviajero]

Well good riddance.

That explains your bitterness and the vitriolic diatribe you hand out to those that stand up for the country they live in. This country is far from perfect, but it's been my permanent home for 20 years and I accept the bad with the good. I have no allegiance to this government or any other, and whatever government is running the show makes little or no difference to my life and I doubt it ever will.

There's enjoying Thailand, and then there's joining the 'defend Thailand from criticism at all costs and put down other farang' club.

Why do you and your mentor consider that someone who defends the decision to ban overstayers is a Thai sycophant or anti farang? Assumptions like that just demonstrate ignorance or immaturity. The bottom line is that overstayers piss off many of the 99+% of us visitors that manage to stay within the rules and we have a right to voice an opinion.

[elviajero]

What about the constant diatribe from that club like or 'digital nomads are illegals, I have the facts and you shouldn't be here', or cheering the removal of double entry tourist visas, or telling people they don't belong here if they don't have the same visa status as them.

Off topic but ........

• Anyone, DN's included, that are working without permission are illegal. It is an absolute undeniable fact that you, due to bias and self interest, won't accept. You come up with claims as to why it's a "grey area" or not illegal which are absolute nonsense, and you don't do your fellow DN's any favours. They should know the truth to be able to make an informed decision. That being; it's illegal but currently tolerated due difficulties in enforcement, and that it's better to stay under the radar. Your constant hijacking of topics to further your agenda doesn't help anyone.
• I don't recall anyone cheering at the loss of the DETV.
• I think the claim is that people that don't have a visa/extension available to them don't belong here. Another undeniable fact. Thai authorities have the right to decide who they want and provide the visas/extensions for those groups.

You really should change your mindset otherwise you will just end up a bitter old man like the man you love to like.

[Sutty]

Well good riddance.

That explains your bitterness and the vitriolic diatribe you hand out to those that stand up for the country they live in. This country is far from perfect, but it's been my permanent home for 20 years and I accept the bad with the good. I have no allegiance to this government or any other, and whatever government is running the show makes little or no difference to my life and I doubt it ever will.

There's enjoying Thailand, and then there's joining the 'defend Thailand from criticism at all costs and put down other farang' club.

Why do you and your mentor consider that someone who defends the decision to ban overstayers is a Thai sycophant or anti farang? Assumptions like that just demonstrate ignorance or immaturity. The bottom line is that overstayers piss off many of the 99+% of us visitors that manage to stay within the rules and we have a right to voice an opinion.

99%+ - 1 please don't try to vote or put me in your club.I'm not as you put it pissed off in fact I don't care at all each to there own path in life, not down to me or you or anyone to judge other people unless of course your a judge or on a jury not a kangaroo court like you have on here.

[FangFerang]

I'm perfectly legal and lecture at a university. But I',m not a good guy or a bad guy.

Will a new regulation make me straddle the border anyway?

[Jools]

A much simpler (and honest) method would be the same way that Cambodia does it. They simply tell you what it costs to stay there and you pay.....and you stay. No ninety day reports, no BS.

Just don't know why The Immigration chief does not welcome tourists on a 6 month visa without having to leave the country every 60 days one way to get tourists back to thailand!!

[elviajero]

Well good riddance.

That explains your bitterness and the vitriolic diatribe you hand out to those that stand up for the country they live in. This country is far from perfect, but it's been my permanent home for 20 years and I accept the bad with the good. I have no allegiance to this government or any other, and whatever government is running the show makes little or no difference to my life and I doubt it ever will.

There's enjoying Thailand, and then there's joining the 'defend Thailand from criticism at all costs and put down other farang' club.

Why do you and your mentor consider that someone who defends the decision to ban overstayers is a Thai sycophant or anti farang? Assumptions like that just demonstrate ignorance or immaturity. The bottom line is that overstayers piss off many of the 99+% of us visitors that manage to stay within the rules and we have a right to voice an opinion.

99%+ - 1 please don't try to vote or put me in your club.I'm not as you put it pissed off in fact I don't care at all each to there own path in life, not down to me or you or anyone to judge other people unless of course your a judge or on a jury not a kangaroo court like you have on here.

Don't worry you weren't included. I said many, not all, which is evident from every overstay thread. Enjoy your time on the fence, but be carful never to judge anyone as that would make you a hypocrite. And while your up there try and get to grips with the concept of opinion and the purpose of a forum!

[Sutty]

Well good riddance.

That explains your bitterness and the vitriolic diatribe you hand out to those that stand up for the country they live in. This country is far from perfect, but it's been my permanent home for 20 years and I accept the bad with the good. I have no allegiance to this government or any other, and whatever government is running the show makes little or no difference to my life and I doubt it ever will.

There's enjoying Thailand, and then there's joining the 'defend Thailand from criticism at all costs and put down other farang' club.

Why do you and your mentor consider that someone who defends the decision to ban overstayers is a Thai sycophant or anti farang? Assumptions like that just demonstrate ignorance or immaturity. The bottom line is that overstayers piss off many of the 99+% of us visitors that manage to stay within the rules and we have a right to voice an opinion.

99%+ - 1 please don't try to vote or put me in your club.I'm not as you put it pissed off in fact I don't care at all each to there own path in life, not down to me or you or anyone to judge other people unless of course your a judge or on a jury not a kangaroo court like you have on here.

Don't worry you weren't included. I said many, not all, which is evident from every overstay thread. Enjoy your time on the fence, but be carful never to judge anyone as that would make you a hypocrite. And while your up there try and get to grips with the concept of opinion and the purpose of a forum!

Don't be worrying about me I'll be fine I never judge people like I said not my job, funny you of all people mention concept of opinion maybe you should practise what you preach.

[Basil B]

I've lost my enthusiasm for new rules from immigration. From my experience different immigration offices implement the policies differently or not at all. A sum of money may also change the rules. And the government changes its immigration rules like I change my clothes…so if you have overstayed, wait around a bit more and the 'rules' will change again tomorrow, next week, or next month, and may benefit you.

There is no new rules...

They are just going to prevent offenders doing it again, the bannings are not dissimilar to many other countries.

[Thaidream]

There are those that like the new rules and those that don't. you can put me down as someone who does not like them for all the reasons I have previously stated. Overstays are not criminals in the sense that they have stolen someone's property or committed a capital crime. The majority of them are down on their luck. You can dislike them; feel no sympathy for them and want them thrown out but I do not feel that way and never will. I would hope people have some sympathy for those who are less well off than oneself. I have mentioned many times, ones life can change in an instant and one who has much can end up with little. Thailand has the right to do whatever it wants with its Immigration law but the video shows how misinformed Thai bureaucracy is about over-stayers. Thai law criminalizes too many things that are essentially civil matters. We can argue about this subject until the sun shines tomorrow and we will never agree on this. Most of us have our own values and see things from different perspectives. Let us agree that people everywhere no matter what their status should be treated with fairness and dignity.Most of the Immigration I have dealt with over the years have treated me that way.

[elviajero]

There are those that like the new rules and those that don't. you can put me down as someone who does not like them for all the reasons I have previously stated. Overstays are not criminals in the sense that they have stolen someone's property or committed a capital crime. The majority of them are down on their luck. You can dislike them; feel no sympathy for them and want them thrown out but I do not feel that way and never will. I would hope people have some sympathy for those who are less well off than oneself. I have mentioned many times, ones life can change in an instant and one who has much can end up with little. Thailand has the right to do whatever it wants with its Immigration law but the video shows how misinformed Thai bureaucracy is about over-stayers. Thai law criminalizes too many things that are essentially civil matters. We can argue about this subject until the sun shines tomorrow and we will never agree on this. Most of us have our own values and see things from different perspectives. Let us agree that people everywhere no matter what their status should be treated with fairness and dignity.Most of the Immigration I have dealt with over the years have treated me that way.

I agree with the majority of your comments. IMO overstayers fall in to two groups; those that can't leave and those that choose not to. I have every sympathy for those that can't leave.

The immigration video is an outrageous piece of propaganda, but at the beginning it confirms the fact that immigration are aware of the growing belief amongst visitors that overstaying is ok. Any country faced with that would rightly take action.

Anyone that believes harmless voluntary overstayers have no effect on anyone else will soon realise otherwise. Those that can't leave, that eventually get caught, are going to pay the price because of a selfish minority. Furthermore, many that can't leave before March 20th, but have the means in the future, will be forced to continue their overstay or face a long ban. It's a crappy situation brought about by people that some seem happy to defend.

I apologise for my terse response to your earlier post, I should have expressed my opinion more politely. Since that post I am pretty much in agreement with all you have written.

[aTomsLife]

I'm guessing the 500 Baht per day is still in play for people who overstay a few days

That's what I'm thinking, too, despite the option the authorities have. I just can't imagine threatening a tourist with a five year ban for overstaying a week.

Why not? There is absolutely no reason why anybody should overstay. If a tourist wants to stay a week longer he can go to Immigration and get it formalised, can't he?

Be that as it may, the punishment should fit the crime. When people speed in their cars--say 45 in a 35--we don't just go suspending their licenses for five years, right?