“Good guys in, bad guys out”, says Thailand Immigration chief

[elviajero]

Had jspill and his mates not taken the piss out of the system in increasing numbers over recent years

This seems to be about not liking digital nomads or the young, as your sentiment on overstay matches that on other related topics.

I think you'll find overstayers are overwhelmingly Africans who struggle to get visas, Laotians / Cambodians who do jobs Thais don't want to do, and western pensioners in Issan who are tired of the travelling for border runs and don't have 800k for a retirement visa.

Some things immigration does need to do:

Create a visa type for digital nomads. Certain types of digital nomads can be good for the economy. Someone who wants to base themselves out of Thailand but who travels frequently is probably better for the local economy than many expats working in Thailand. Obviously they should have some safeguards in place to keep out guys making $27 a month on eBay calling themselves digital nomads (like proof of company registration in another country, proof of income, etc) but overall I think this would be good for Thailand.

Clarify the country's policy on working online. Many expats who come live in Thailand either do consulting work, trade stocks/commodities, and other types of online-only jobs where their income is not, technically, being derived inside of Thailand. As such, it's questionable whether they need work permits and even if they wanted to apply for a work permit, how would they even go about doing so?

Again, many of these people do benefit the economy and they would be more likely to create jobs in Thailand if there was a clear mechanism for them to live in Thailand legally. Someone who isn't even sure if what they're doing is technically legal isn't going to start hiring personal assistants and other staff if doing so will make them a target for immigration.

As long as the government can keep it's hands off and not try to make them file for business licenses and whatever stupid stuff they can think of to milk the cow, this could be very beneficial for Thailand.

I don't understand why DN's think they should be singled out for special treatment. If Thailand is going to open the doors to foreigners to run businesses here it should be for all and not just the special few who believe their ability to work anywhere means they can work anywhere.

[jspill]

I don't understand why DN's think they should be singled out for special treatment. If Thailand is going to open the doors to foreigners to run businesses here it should be for all and not just the special few who believe their ability to work anywhere means they can work anywhere.

They aren't asking to be singled out for special treatment, they just point out that it would make sense if at some point something like Germany's freelancer visa was introduced. They aren't a special few, Forbes predicted half of us will be internet freelancers by 2020. Anyone can do it.

Then they could pay taxes, follow the letter of the law strictly, and it'd reduce overstaying. Isn't that what you want? If you still wouldn't support that, then really I suspect your primary motivation is just not wanting an influx of young foreigners living here.

[digibum]

Had jspill and his mates not taken the piss out of the system in increasing numbers over recent years

This seems to be about not liking digital nomads or the young, as your sentiment on overstay matches that on other related topics.

I think you'll find overstayers are overwhelmingly Africans who struggle to get visas, Laotians / Cambodians who do jobs Thais don't want to do, and western pensioners in Issan who are tired of the travelling for border runs and don't have 800k for a retirement visa.

Some things immigration does need to do:

Create a visa type for digital nomads. Certain types of digital nomads can be good for the economy. Someone who wants to base themselves out of Thailand but who travels frequently is probably better for the local economy than many expats working in Thailand. Obviously they should have some safeguards in place to keep out guys making $27 a month on eBay calling themselves digital nomads (like proof of company registration in another country, proof of income, etc) but overall I think this would be good for Thailand.

Clarify the country's policy on working online. Many expats who come live in Thailand either do consulting work, trade stocks/commodities, and other types of online-only jobs where their income is not, technically, being derived inside of Thailand. As such, it's questionable whether they need work permits and even if they wanted to apply for a work permit, how would they even go about doing so?

Again, many of these people do benefit the economy and they would be more likely to create jobs in Thailand if there was a clear mechanism for them to live in Thailand legally. Someone who isn't even sure if what they're doing is technically legal isn't going to start hiring personal assistants and other staff if doing so will make them a target for immigration.

As long as the government can keep it's hands off and not try to make them file for business licenses and whatever stupid stuff they can think of to milk the cow, this could be very beneficial for Thailand.

I don't understand why DN's think they should be singled out for special treatment. If Thailand is going to open the doors to foreigners to run businesses here it should be for all and not just the special few who believe their ability to work anywhere means they can work anywhere.

I guess I don't understand what you mean by Thailand not being open for all. Maybe you can explain that better.

In the meantime, I'll take a crack at what I think you might mean. Are you comparing Joe Expat who owns a restaurant with Digital Nomad and wondering why DN should get special treatment?

If that is your question, my answer is that because DN doesn't derive any income from inside of Thailand. If he's not conducting trade in the country and his business entity is not Thai registered (i.e. he's not paying Thai taxes) then I think it creates a special circumstance that current immigration laws have not anticipated or adapted to.

That's why I also say that Thailand should better define what working in Thailand actually means. If you are on holiday and answer an email from your boss or a customer back in the US, are you illegally working in Thailand? Many lawyers say that you are not but that's not because it's been clearly defined under Thai law.

Also that is why I think there should be a distinction between a digital nomad and a digital worker. A digital nomad, by my definition, has no intent to immigrate to Thailand. They are more like a long-term tourist. If they can show sufficient income, give them a 1 year or 2 year visa to live in Thailand as long as they spend no more than 8 months a year in country.

On the other hand, a digital worker is immigrating to Thailand and simply has a job which he can perform online. If that is what they are doing then they should register a business in Thailand and apply for a work permit like everyone else working in Thailand. Of course, the immigration laws need to be updated to lose the Thai employee requirement for these types of businesses.

Bottom line is that more and more people are able to work remotely and countries with a low cost of living, like Thailand, have an opportunity to welcome these types of expats in a way that is beneficial to all parties.

[elviajero]

I don't understand why DN's think they should be singled out for special treatment. If Thailand is going to open the doors to foreigners to run businesses here it should be for all and not just the special few who believe their ability to work anywhere means they can work anywhere.

They aren't asking to be singled out for special treatment, they just point out that it would make sense if at some point something like Germany's freelancer visa was introduced. They aren't a special few, Forbes predicted half of us will be internet freelancers by 2020. Anyone can do it.

Then they could pay taxes, follow the letter of the law strictly, and it'd reduce overstaying. Isn't that what you want? If you still wouldn't support that, then really I suspect your primary motivation is just not wanting an influx of young foreigners living here.

They often are asking to be singled out and @digibum is proof in point. "Some things immigration does need to do: Create a visa type for digital nomads."

The German Freelancer visa is not just for DN's but any foreigner wanting to run an appropriate business.

I have absolutely no objection to DN's having a legal way to work and pay taxes. But DN's should also consider those foreigners that live here and can't legally help their wives/girlfriends run businesses or set up in business themselves. So my point is that DN's should not expect preferential treatment and have no more right to work here than anyone else. I believe any change to foreigners working rights should include the many rather than the few. Do you not think that is fair?

I also have nothing against the young coming here. The problem is that Thailand does, which is evident in the visas/extensions of stay they offer.

[balo]

How about rewards for good guys? How about granting a foreigner who has worked and lived here for more than 10 years, paid taxes, learned the language, invested here, married a Thai, raised a family, etc. in Thailand a citizenship without the need of running through that flimsy and rather questionable process of applying for residency and to then eventually win (and pay 250k for it) the lottery and get citizenship after an undetermined "waiting period"??? Oh wait, that would required logical thinking and empathy for minorities... wrong country... shoite...

Not possible , you are not a Thai even if you live here most of your life. And never will be.

[SiSePuede419]

Why would a DN want to base out of Thailand?

I interviewed with a company located in America and they wanted to fly me in for an interview.

When they found out I was "based" out of Thailand, the in-person interview was cancelled.

They did instead a Skype interview. I did not get the job.

I feel, had I been based out of America, I would have got the interview and maybe the job.

Yeah, big benefit of a DM "basing" out of LOS.

They don't suspect you're unhinged, they know it.

555

[sjaak327]

How a thread like this always bring out the holier than though types, amusing.

Whilst I agree somewhat that for most people, preventing overstay is perfectly feasible, there are people where this is not the case for various reasons. Some of these people are in situations where their children would be severely affected by a possible ban from one of their parents.

And those situations cannot be that unlikely, considering I personally know a few Lao people that are in this situation, for now they use a certain technique that still seems to work, and with a bit of luck, continues to work past march of this year.

The original article a year or so back, talked about around 70K cases out of over 26 million arrivals, this indicates to me that overstaying remains a very small problem and the vast majority of people visiting Thailand do not overstay at all.

It boggles the mind how someone who does not 'turn him or herself in' could be subjected to a five year ban for even a small overstay. Truly draconian, has no sense of justice in relation to the crime and opens up a whole avenue of tea money possibilities for this country's fine law enforcement agencies.

Unfortunately, not for the people in children situations, as their financial situations don't allow to obtain a non immigrant O, let alone pay any tea money to prevent a lengthy ban.

Here is to hoping a few genuine tourist get caught up in this and they make such a hassle out of it, that people say up yours to Thailand as a holiday destination, that will quickly but surely return normalcy to the overstay regulations.

[digibum]

I don't understand why DN's think they should be singled out for special treatment. If Thailand is going to open the doors to foreigners to run businesses here it should be for all and not just the special few who believe their ability to work anywhere means they can work anywhere.

They aren't asking to be singled out for special treatment, they just point out that it would make sense if at some point something like Germany's freelancer visa was introduced. They aren't a special few, Forbes predicted half of us will be internet freelancers by 2020. Anyone can do it.

Then they could pay taxes, follow the letter of the law strictly, and it'd reduce overstaying. Isn't that what you want? If you still wouldn't support that, then really I suspect your primary motivation is just not wanting an influx of young foreigners living here.

They often are asking to be singled out and @digibum is proof in point. "Some things immigration does need to do: Create a visa type for digital nomads."

The German Freelancer visa is not just for DN's but any foreigner wanting to run an appropriate business.

I have absolutely no objection to DN's having a legal way to work and pay taxes. But DN's should also consider those foreigners that live here and can't legally help their wives/girlfriends run businesses or set up in business themselves. So my point is that DN's should not expect preferential treatment and have no more right to work here than anyone else. I believe any change to foreigners working rights should include the many rather than the few. Do you not think that is fair?

I also have nothing against the young coming here. The problem is that Thailand does, which is evident in the visas/extensions of stay they offer.

I think you may be misrepresenting what I said. Creating a new type of visa that recognizes the realities of today's world does not also prevent Thai immigration from making other immigration reforms.

I know TiT and all but if we're just blue skying ideas, really, the solution is to overhaul the core immigration policy. I don't disagree with harsh penalties for those that violate immigration laws. After all, they are laws and you can't claim that you're law abiding guest in Thailand while simultaneously in violation of immigration laws.

However, the laws should be reformed to take into account people with legitimate reasons to stay in the country. DN's are just one group. Business owners who operate their businesses only during high season are another.

But not every sob story needs to be covered. Helping your girlfriend run her business, IMHO, isn't really a legitimate reason to be working in Thailand. As far as I know, no country on this planet recognizes "girlfriend" as a legal relationship status (common law marriages aside).

Likewise, being a parent to a Thai child shouldn't grant you some magical immigration status. Foreigners would be knocking up Thai women left and right if that were the case.

Any overhaul of the immigration policies should be fair but you still have to draw the line somewhere and you have to be aware of the unintended consequences (i.e. knocking up Thai women to have an anchor baby).

Even then, some people are going to fall into grey areas and such but at least the vast, vast majority of people who want to live and work in Thailand legitimately, and who contribute to society have an opportunity to do so legally.

But one of the reasons I do focus in on DNs in this discussion is that a true DN (vs. a digital worker) is likely to have higher income than the average expat and, should they eventually decide to immigrate to Thailand, can bring businesses and jobs with them.

It serves no good purpose to have sketchy immigration laws that are constantly in flux. People will stay nomads knowing that the immigration laws are too unreliable for them to commit significant financial resources to relocate their businesses or themselves.

[digibum]

Why would a DN want to base out of Thailand?

I interviewed with a company located in America and they wanted to fly me in for an interview.

When they found out I was "based" out of Thailand, the in-person interview was cancelled.

They did instead a Skype interview. I did not get the job.

I feel, had I been based out of America, I would have got the interview and maybe the job.

Yeah, big benefit of a DM "basing" out of LOS.

They don't suspect you're unhinged, they know it.

555

I think you misunderstand what a digital nomad is. Although there is no concrete definition, being a salaried employee is usually not considered to be a DN. A DN typically isn't applying for jobs. They own their own company which happens to be online (thus the digital) which allows them the freedom to be able to run their business from anywhere.

For instance, a web developer who has six Filipino employees who do the actual work, while the business owner simply markets for new business. If the business is getting most of their sales via search engine marketing, the owner really doesn't need to be physically located anywhere. He can email his staff, have conference calls, and take care of day to day issues while he travels around Europe.

Or someone who owns an Amazon FBA business with one freelancer who keeps the books for him. Other than sourcing product, and perhaps doing some online marketing, there may be very little else for the owner to do thus leaving him free to travel as they wish.

You interviewing for a job is the exact opposite of what a digital nomad is generally perceived as.

[FritsSikkink]

Why would a DN want to base out of Thailand?

I interviewed with a company located in America and they wanted to fly me in for an interview.

When they found out I was "based" out of Thailand, the in-person interview was cancelled.

They did instead a Skype interview. I did not get the job.

I feel, had I been based out of America, I would have got the interview and maybe the job.

Yeah, big benefit of a DM "basing" out of LOS.

They don't suspect you're unhinged, they know it.

555

I think you misunderstand what a digital nomad is. Although there is no concrete definition, being a salaried employee is usually not considered to be a DN. A DN typically isn't applying for jobs. They own their own company which happens to be online (thus the digital) which allows them the freedom to be able to run their business from anywhere.

For instance, a web developer who has six Filipino employees who do the actual work, while the business owner simply markets for new business. If the business is getting most of their sales via search engine marketing, the owner really doesn't need to be physically located anywhere. He can email his staff, have conference calls, and take care of day to day issues while he travels around Europe.

Or someone who owns an Amazon FBA business with one freelancer who keeps the books for him. Other than sourcing product, and perhaps doing some online marketing, there may be very little else for the owner to do thus leaving him free to travel as they wish.

You interviewing for a job is the exact opposite of what a digital nomad is generally perceived as.

no, they can't run there business from anywhere. they have to comply with the rules they are living in. technique allows them but there is more to it then that which most of them just try to deny. they want the world to adjust to what they want otherwise the start to blame everything and everyone but theirselves

[digibum]

no, they can't run there business from anywhere. they have to comply with the rules they are living in. technique allows them but there is more to it then that which most of them just try to deny. they want the world to adjust to what they want otherwise the start to blame everything and everyone but theirselves

I guess that's the elephant in the room. What constitutes work? Thai immigration, or any country's immigration, is not going to be able to tell if people are working in their country if they transact no business through that economy. If I were to be a DN and set up a company in the Philippines and decide to live part-time in Bangkok, who is ever going to know? Technically, am I even working? How am I any different than someone on legitimate vacation who happens to answer some work related emails in his hotel room?

What I'm saying is that you can ignore that and encourage the status quo, or you can recognize that the world has changed over the last few decades and establish some rules that attempt to keep up with that change.

[elviajero]

no, they can't run there business from anywhere. they have to comply with the rules they are living in. technique allows them but there is more to it then that which most of them just try to deny. they want the world to adjust to what they want otherwise the start to blame everything and everyone but theirselves

I guess that's the elephant in the room. What constitutes work? Thai immigration, or any country's immigration, is not going to be able to tell if people are working in their country if they transact no business through that economy. If I were to be a DN and set up a company in the Philippines and decide to live part-time in Bangkok, who is ever going to know? Technically, am I even working? How am I any different than someone on legitimate vacation who happens to answer some work related emails in his hotel room?

What I'm saying is that you can ignore that and encourage the status quo, or you can recognize that the world has changed over the last few decades and establish some rules that attempt to keep up with that change.

If you want a discussion on DN's it would be better to start a new topic because this is way off topic and the conversation will no doubt get closed down here.

In the meantime.... If you are operating a business or carrying out your occupation you are working by any definition on the planet. And Thailand's definition of work is so broad it encompasses pretty much everything. If you are in Thailand when doing that work (DN's are working) then you need permission, and there is currently no mechanism that allows that without being employed by a Thai company.

The digital age has created all sorts of opportunities but here's the reality. It doesn't matter how one spins it a DN is working and they are on Thai soil when they do it. Being physically in Thailand means they are subject to Thai law and Thai law prevents all of us woking without permission. The fact that DN's derive their income abroad is irrelevant as even voluntary and unpaid work requires permission.

It is not possible under current legislation for the MFA to issue a visa that would allow DN's or any other group to work. So even if Thailand decided to officially open the door to DN's changes in the alien working act, and possibly the immigration act, would be required.

The argument that DN's have any significance on the economy is moot. And I believe Thai authorities know the shit storm it would cause if one group of foreigners were allowed to work when thousands of others can't. Why should the guy sat at his computer in the corner of the coffee shop be allowed to work and earn a living when the husband of the Thai owner of the coffee shop can't even legally pour a cup of coffee.

The best DN's can hope for now is that immigration and the department of labour continue to turn a blind eye. The more visible DN's get the sooner action will be taken and IMO it won't end well for DN's. The only reason DN's continue to get away with it is because the MFA keep handing out tourist visas and the authorities can't practically or reasonably stop someone on a "legitimate vacation" from keeping up with work. And someone that has effectively relocated their business to Thailand is difficult to prove. Call it a loophole, but the manpower and logistics of policing and prosecuting DN's isn't practical or worth it given they don't really do any harm. They could empty the coffee shops and shared working spaces but people would just hide away in their rooms and continue.

Change is needed but it shouldn't be because of DN's. Immigration and working policy for foreigners needs revamping across the board.

[ukrules]

If this video wasn't linked directly from the official Immigration Departments website I would have thought it a spoof, like something from a comedy show.

[ukrules]

Looks like someone else has also uploaded it, it's not so private anymore.

It's not the first result, you need to scroll down to see it.

I wonder how many days it will be before it goes viral around the world before all traces of it are removed.

[digibum]

Change is needed but it shouldn't be because of DN's. Immigration and working policy for foreigners needs revamping across the board.

I think if you go back and read all of my responses, you'll find that I did say that the entire system needs to be revamped. Where I'm guessing you and I might differ (I don't know your opinion but am guessing by your responses) is that I don't think revamping necessarily means lowering the bar. Someone earlier mentioned that some foreigners with girlfriends might be impacted by these new penalties. I have no problem with that. Girlfriend is not a legal status in any country. Wife, okay. Girlfriend, sorry, the bar shouldn't be lowered to that level. On the other hand, I do think that people who operate seasonal businesses and have jumped through all of the business and other immigration hoops should have allowances made for them during the slow season.

Basically, Thai immigration law does not reflect the reality on the ground for a lot of people who are trying to go about their lives legally in Thailand. The laws should be updated in order to encourage more "good guys" to come and contribute to the Thai economy. That's all I'm really trying to get across.

However, I'm aware that this requires a major shift in thinking in the government. They need to quit thinking about protecting Thai jobs and this fictional 0% unemployment target and realize that a restaurant owner pouring a glass of water for his guests is not endangering the Thai economy. Once they wrap their heads around that concept, the more you'll see foreigners creating more opportunities for Thais. Not as waiters or security guards or other low level jobs but in jobs where Thailand is sorely lacking in skilled people.

[seedy]

one Nonsense post removed

[FritsSikkink]

Change is needed but it shouldn't be because of DN's. Immigration and working policy for foreigners needs revamping across the board.

I think if you go back and read all of my responses, you'll find that I did say that the entire system needs to be revamped. Where I'm guessing you and I might differ (I don't know your opinion but am guessing by your responses) is that I don't think revamping necessarily means lowering the bar. Someone earlier mentioned that some foreigners with girlfriends might be impacted by these new penalties. I have no problem with that. Girlfriend is not a legal status in any country. Wife, okay. Girlfriend, sorry, the bar shouldn't be lowered to that level. On the other hand, I do think that people who operate seasonal businesses and have jumped through all of the business and other immigration hoops should have allowances made for them during the slow season.

Basically, Thai immigration law does not reflect the reality on the ground for a lot of people who are trying to go about their lives legally in Thailand. The laws should be updated in order to encourage more "good guys" to come and contribute to the Thai economy. That's all I'm really trying to get across.

However, I'm aware that this requires a major shift in thinking in the government. They need to quit thinking about protecting Thai jobs and this fictional 0% unemployment target and realize that a restaurant owner pouring a glass of water for his guests is not endangering the Thai economy. Once they wrap their heads around that concept, the more you'll see foreigners creating more opportunities for Thais. Not as waiters or security guards or other low level jobs but in jobs where Thailand is sorely lacking in skilled people.

[FritsSikkink]

Change is needed but it shouldn't be because of DN's. Immigration and working policy for foreigners needs revamping across the board.

I think if you go back and read all of my responses, you'll find that I did say that the entire system needs to be revamped. Where I'm guessing you and I might differ (I don't know your opinion but am guessing by your responses) is that I don't think revamping necessarily means lowering the bar. Someone earlier mentioned that some foreigners with girlfriends might be impacted by these new penalties. I have no problem with that. Girlfriend is not a legal status in any country. Wife, okay. Girlfriend, sorry, the bar shouldn't be lowered to that level. On the other hand, I do think that people who operate seasonal businesses and have jumped through all of the business and other immigration hoops should have allowances made for them during the slow season.

Basically, Thai immigration law does not reflect the reality on the ground for a lot of people who are trying to go about their lives legally in Thailand. The laws should be updated in order to encourage more "good guys" to come and contribute to the Thai economy. That's all I'm really trying to get across.

However, I'm aware that this requires a major shift in thinking in the government. They need to quit thinking about protecting Thai jobs and this fictional 0% unemployment target and realize that a restaurant owner pouring a glass of water for his guests is not endangering the Thai economy. Once they wrap their heads around that concept, the more you'll see foreigners creating more opportunities for Thais. Not as waiters or security guards or other low level jobs but in jobs where Thailand is sorely lacking in skilled people.

people who can't afford a visa or / and have an illegal bussines should just go. making a couple of 100's dollars/euro's playing poker all day or make a website every now and then, don't have a proper bussines but are just paid amateurs. you think you contribute to the Thai community but there are loads of people spending your monthly earnings in a day. so goodbye to you all.

[MJP]

All this for a TOURIST VISA?!!!

___________________________________________________________________________

http://www.thaiconsulatewales.org.uk/visas.htm

Multi Entry Tourist Visa - This visa allows multiple entries into Thailand with a maximum stay of 60 days on each entry and is valid for 6 months from the date of issue. Applicants are required to submit the following documents for consideration:

1. A completed application form with 2 identical professionally printed photographs (45 mm high x 35 mm wide)

2. A current passport with validity of over 6 months beyond the date of application

3. Proof of resident status in the UK or Ireland (Passport or UK/Ireland residence card) along with a photocopy

4. Original bank statement showing a balance of at least £5,000 for a minimum of 6 months or a printout with official stamp of the bank.

5. A letter from the applicants employer (in the UK and addressed to the Royal Thai Consulate/Embassy). If you are self-employed, your self assessment and a company registration document are required.

6. A photocopy of applicants return ticket home

7. A photocopy of the hotel reservation confirmation in Thailand.

________________________________________________________________________

[SiSePuede419]

"Girlfriend is not a legal status in any country. Wife, okay. Girlfriend, sorry, the bar shouldn't be lowered to that level."

Never heard of a K-1 visa?

https://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/immigrate/family/fiance-k-1.html

Sounds legit and legal. The government is really strict that way about doing things that are legal, 555

[SiSePuede419]

All this for a TOURIST VISA?!!!

___________________________________________________________________________

http://www.thaiconsulatewales.org.uk/visas.htm

Multi Entry Tourist Visa - This visa allows multiple entries into Thailand with a maximum stay of 60 days on each entry and is valid for 6 months from the date of issue. Applicants are required to submit the following documents for consideration:

1. A completed application form with 2 identical professionally printed photographs (45 mm high x 35 mm wide)

2. A current passport with validity of over 6 months beyond the date of application

3. Proof of resident status in the UK or Ireland (Passport or UK/Ireland residence card) along with a photocopy

4. Original bank statement showing a balance of at least £5,000 for a minimum of 6 months or a printout with official stamp of the bank.

5. A letter from the applicants employer (in the UK and addressed to the Royal Thai Consulate/Embassy). If you are self-employed, your self assessment and a company registration document are required.

6. A photocopy of applicants return ticket home

7. A photocopy of the hotel reservation confirmation in Thailand.

________________________________________________________________________

Yes, I saw that, too.

But when I went to the website of a DIFFERENT LOCATION of a Thai embassy, rules #4-7 were not required.

So, i sent the application to that location and I just got back a 6 month (3 multiple entries) tourist visa.

I suspect the new rules are in "transition" and are not fully implemented yet.

[SiSePuede419]

"On the other hand, a digital worker is immigrating to Thailand and simply has a job which he can perform online."

Furthermore, this worker is using the Thai infrastructure to get their work done.

They live in a hotel that they could not afford back home. They drive on Thai roads. Use the Thai Electrical grid to power their laptops. Connect to their clients servers using the Thai internet as the gateway. They eat food at restaurants subsidized by the Thai government, all throughout the supply chain.

If I work in Arizona for a client in Colorado, I still owe Arizona income taxes for that Colorado client income, because I performed the work in Arizona, using their infrastructure.

The whiny DM types sound like entitled Libertarians who want stuff but don't like paying for it, 555

[jspill]

"On the other hand, a digital worker is immigrating to Thailand and simply has a job which he can perform online."

Furthermore, this worker is using the Thai infrastructure to get their work done.

They live in a hotel that they could not afford back home. They drive on Thai roads. Use the Thai Electrical grid to power their laptops. Connect to their clients servers using the Thai internet as the gateway. They eat food at restaurants subsidized by the Thai government, all throughout the supply chain.

If I work in Arizona for a client in Colorado, I still owe Arizona income taxes for that Colorado client income, because I performed the work in Arizona, using their infrastructure.

The whiny DM types sound like entitled Libertarians who want stuff but don't like paying for it, 555

Do retired expats pay taxes in Thailand? Married expats living on savings?

No, but they also use all those things in your post.

Only people working in Thailand are subject to income tax, DNs aren't working in Thailand. Many would like to pay taxes if online work were recognized as working in Thailand, which it isn't.

[elviajero]

Do retired expats pay taxes in Thailand? Married expats living on savings?

No, but they also use all those things in your post.

Only people working in Thailand are subject to income tax, DNs aren't working in Thailand. Many would like to pay taxes if online work were recognized as working in Thailand, which it isn't.

A DN living in Thailand for more than 180 days a year is considered resident for tax and many are probably, if unwittingly, evading tax.

It seems to me that many like the idea of a nomadic life, but in reality have just relocated their business to Thailand.

[arunsakda]

Saw the youtube on another site. South Park style amusing animation with a catchy original rap song.

[FritsSikkink]

Do retired expats pay taxes in Thailand? Married expats living on savings?

No, but they also use all those things in your post.

Only people working in Thailand are subject to income tax, DNs aren't working in Thailand. Many would like to pay taxes if online work were recognized as working in Thailand, which it isn't.

A DN living in Thailand for more than 180 days a year is considered resident for tax and many are probably, if unwittingly, evading tax.

It seems to me that many like the idea of a nomadic life, but in reality have just relocated their business to Thailand.

because most of them don't earn enough to stay alive in their own country

[jspill]

A DN living in Thailand for more than 180 days a year is considered resident for tax and many are probably, if unwittingly, evading tax.

It seems to me that many like the idea of a nomadic life, but in reality have just relocated their business to Thailand.

because most of them don't earn enough to stay alive in their own country

One could say the same thing about many expats in Thailand, living out in the sticks of Surat Thani supporting families. In their country they'd be struggling financially - we all chose Thailand because it was a better value for money option. We're all essentially economic migrants, be proud of it instead of attacking others.

DNs aren't required to pay income tax if they're not remitting money to Thailand in the year it's earned. Thailand isn't really chasing them for it either, it'd be negligible. Seems a silly thing to get worked up about.

[simon43]

DNs aren't working in Thailand

Yawn... yes they are, yes they are, yes they are....

[hawker9000]

Meanwhile.....Cambodia begs: "Please ramp up the abuse of Thailand's farangs, so we can have the overflow." Perhaps the most dense, obtuse immigration in the developing world. Someone PLEASE explain to them that you DO NOT grow an economy by abusing your cash cows.

Not sure why you think some foreigner who is living in Thailand illegally constitutes a cash cow.

Cash cows are tourists who come, spend and go.

Not sure; well then let me help. You can start by not distorting the picture. It's not necessary to "spend & go" to be a "cash cow", though this is quite often the cry of the self-righteous. IF you're in Thailand supporting yourself with income you earned at home or somewhere else (and neither working in Thailand nor "subsisting" on the generosity of the locals), then you're injecting foreign cash into the Thai economy, which pretty much makes you a "cash cow". It's even possible to be living in the country illegally (e.g., on a long overstay or through abuse of the visa system) and still be contributing to the economy as long as the cash you're living on comes from abroad. 'Course I'm anything BUT an advocate for deliberate overstayers, who, while they may not be a drain on the economy, are still a criminal element that Thailand is well within its rights to be rid of.

It makes sense for Thailand to want to eliminate the illegitimate riff-raff. The problem is, they're trying to do it with an immigration enforcement bureaucracy that lacks consistency, predictability and professionalism. THAT'S hurting tourism, because the immigration boys are basically blinded into not being able to tell the "good guys" from the "bad guys", and spurred on by institutionalized xenophobic hysteria, impose caprice and abuse of discretion on foreigners at random. Those who ARE playing by the rules get caught up in it and are extremely resentful of the fact.

Maybe this does happen to some extent in the U.S. and elsewhere. Tourism in those countries is simply not as vulnerable to this abuse as Thailand's tourism is. Tourists will come to the US, the UK, other European destinations, and some other places, anyway. Not true of Thailand, where relatively affluent westerners have now been traded away for tight-spending Chinese and the very opposite of the "quality tourist" Thailand keeps saying it wants.

[fey]

lesser penalties for turn themselves in is a little bizarre

is it suppossed to be an example to others? i never see any figures or publicity shots on this