How Much Does It Take?

[bodypaul]

I'm thinking of retiring to LOS when I reach 50 early next year. How much would it take to live comfortably in Thailand bearing in mind that I don't need to live in a palace nor do I want to live in a backpacker's hostel? BKK or one of the Islands would be fine to live .... don't like village life as I am a townie! I think that the safer option would be to rent somewhere so I would want a two bedroom condo in a reasonable location!

Thanks in anticipation!

[think_too_mut]

I'm thinking of retiring to LOS when I reach 50 early next year. How much would it take to live comfortably in Thailand bearing in mind that I don't need to live in a palace nor do I want to live in a backpacker's hostel? BKK or one of the Islands would be fine to live .... don't like village life as I am a townie! I think that the safer option would be to rent somewhere so I would want a two bedroom condo in a reasonable location!

Thanks in anticipation!

What would give you at least 40B per month?

550K US in a bank, if u can get 4% interest and live on that, means 40K baht per month, if all is ok. That's the vanilla. Never sick, not a big drinker, scarce sanuk...

Less than 40K is more than fine upcountry when all other things are sorted out. In BKK, could be a struggle.

[TizMe]

TTM,

If can pass the Baht in Bank test for your visa each year (800,000 bht if your single or 400,000 if your married to a Thai), then you should be able to live reasonably comfortable.

If you cant pass the BiB test then even if you can live on less, the Thai Govt says that you are not welcome to stay.

Tiz

[Jeepz]

think too mut~

Just doing a math check here. 550k @ 4% interest should return 22k per year. Since the baht is roughly 40 per 1 (okay 39 now) your 40k baht per month is roughly a grand a month and at 4% interest requires a 300k investment. Now taxes is a consideration, but less so if that is all you are getting as income. Same for health insurance and so on.

bodypaul~

I have not moved to LOS yet, so please take my info in that light. I have been researching pretty much the same question. Advice varies. Some of it depends on where you live, Bkk being more expensive than Pattaya or Chiang Mai, how you live, and what your support network is (Thai girl friend/wife).

Most of the people I've talked to put it at 50 to 65 thousand baht a month for a generally pleasant lifestyle in a fairly nice place. I'm not talking luxury apartments in a western sense, you can spend 30 - 40k baht per month on one of those or more.

When getting info from others it is always hard to know what is "okay" or "nice" since that really varies from person to person. The more you require western food and living, the more you will spend. If you adapt to Thai food, street vendors, and so on, the less you spend.

And it will cost more at first. That has been my experience anytime I've moved someplace new. It takes awhile for you to learn the ropes of your new home turf. Where the cheap "good" eats are, where to shop, what you really enjoy for recreation. So usually you end up throwing a larger chunk of change at it until you get settled in and locate the places that work for you and your income level.

Jeepz

[Thaiquila]

Seconding on the faulty math about 4 percent of 550K USD.

I am almost in this boat, planning to try to live on a certain amount of moolah in LOS on retirement visa.

Obviously, everyone has different needs. The most common serious financial threats are health related and sex worker related, so no plan, no matter how much you have is void of risk.

Anyway:

most financial literature says 5 percent draw on a nest egg is pretty safe; safe defined as the goal of never running out of money before you die

future inflation and exchange rate variances need to be considered, and so does estimated life expectancy. For example, if you think there is a good chance you will live another 30 years, inflation could kill, 10 years, much less of a concern

inflation can be addressed by putting as much as half of your assets in world stock markets; over time they do historically better than bonds, so there is the growth part of your pool; of course, there is much more short term risk with doing this, so it is a very personal decision

interest rate trends are up! this can be very good for retirees. It hasn't happened yet, but lets say in a few years you can safely get 7 percent return in GNMA bonds. well, 7 percent sounds pretty good, and implies that you safely draw even more then 5 percent from your nest egg

So personally with the way things are going, for the modest life you describe, I think you probably do not need as much as 550K USD.

[Basher]

350,000 pounds was my figure when the dollar - pound was $1.6 to the quid, so all above failing maths are right as far as I can see

Bash

[Jeepz]

Basher~

You've managed to confuse the issue (and/or me) again. When did the pound enter the equation? Think Too Mut mentioned USD (United States Dollars) in his example. I didn't specify USD (bad me) because my point was about his math and I just continued assuming a USD base. Three hundred thousand USD should return twelve thousand USD at four percent per annum. That is the One thousand USD or roughly Forty Thousand baht figure per month.

Five Hundred Fifty thousand dollars at the same return rate would be in the Twenty Two thousand USD area.

Now, 300k British Pounds converted to American Dollars at the exchange rate of 1.60 dollar per pound will be 480k USD. In the ball park of the 550k that Think Too Mut mentioned, except he never ever mentioned British Pounds.

Lifestyle-wise, I'd rather have your 300k British Pounds in the bank, but sadly, that's not going to happen in my lifetime. So it goes. My guess based on the info I've gleaned from ThaiVisa and other boards is that 1500 USD per month (money in hand) is a good working estimate of what it would take to live in Thailand.

If you want nicer lifestyle with extra nice serviced apartment, dining out an nice restaurants often, really good looking long term/short term girl friend(s), and occasional jaunts overseas, you will have to dial up that number substantially.

If you are happy with pleasant but not top notch apartment or house (depending on where you settle), local foodstuffs, local food vendors, somewhat more average girl friend (or less frequent short time sweeties) and limited jaunts out of Thailand, the 1500 USD (825 British Pounds) per month should get you by. It will do a bit better if you are outside Bangkok. As I said, this is not based on my living there, just on what I've read here and elsewhere from folks that are.

Jeepz

[think_too_mut]

350,000 pounds was my figure when the dollar - pound was $1.6 to the quid, so all above failing maths are right as far as I can see

Bash

Sorry, don't hold me for the wrong calculation (got distracted and just back to the board now), if 300K is than even better.

[bodypaul]

Thanks for the replies so far!!! ..... KEEP 'EM coming!!

[mbkudu]

If you want the official rundown on all this related stuff go to the Royal Thai Embassy website. It's pretty clear.

[Basher]

350,000 pounds was my figure when the dollar - pound was $1.6 to the quid, so all above failing maths are right as far as I can see

Bash

I was only commenting I wasn't calculating, sorry to confuse, Whiskey and no sex got the better of me....

Even after 12 years my numb mind still has to see what things look like in pounds, I get paid in dollars so I am weening myself off the quid.... slowly

Bash

[Jeepz]

bodypaul~

What mbkudu said is right. My numbers are rough estimate of living requirements, not government requirements. If you follow the board and info posts on ThaiVisa you will see that the governments "requirements" for living long term here. Note that they are in a state of flux, particularly in how they are interpreted.

Given just what I've seen here, it will be a cold day somewhere very hot before I'll park 800,000 baht in a non-interest bearing account with a Thai bank for the distinction of living in LOS. That doesn't mean I won't give moving to Thailand a try, but I'll be very careful about how much I'll commit to making it happen. No way that I'll get twenty thousand dollars buried in Thailand that I would have a hard time moving out of country if I had to at some point down the road.

Also, anyone/everyone is invited to take my estimates over the coals. Particularly folks currently residing in Thailand. This is a repetitive topic here and on other boards. But one that holds my interest as well as most every other newbie or wannabe expat.

On another Not-To-Be-Named board, I saw a youngish guy that has spent two months so far in Bangkok. He is aiming for a monthly outflow of one thousand to twelve hundred dollars a month. He has been going through two thousand a month at a steady click so far. But he noted he hasn't been trying to curb his spending at this point. Now he was living in an apartment that is far cheaper than I would expect to pay (6k baht). But he had other expenses that were higher than I would expect to spend personally (20k baht: school/entertaiment). So I guess that sort of balances out. My guess is that figuring a 10 - 15k baht apartment and not much for entertainment, you'd be just over the 1000 - 1200 dollar mark using his experience. He eats at the street vendors fairly often, doesn't require frequent trips to store for western food or restaurants for same. But entertainment would have to be added to that figure, so it depends on how often you wanted to see a flick, go out for a bit of social uhmm intercourse, or whatever.

I've seen others make claims for living on 25k baht to 40k baht at various websites. Most folks commenting on them said that those were very optimistic budgets (in the sense of getting by on that little). But it does depend on the deals you find in terms of a place to live, what you need to get by, and so forth. I doubt that living in the city, with a semblance of western lifestyle/comforts, that you can do it anywhere near 25k baht and maybe even 40k baht.

Jeepz

[Boon Mee]

Concur with the aforementioned figure of around 65K Baht per mo. to live comfortably. That's with everything paid for ahead of time e.g. house, truck, and the funds resting in a Thai bank to hold your visa.

[joebuzzard]

if u can get 4% interest and live on that, means 40K baht per month, if all is ok.

Where can I get that 4%?

[londonguy]

Why not just live on the capital. I reckon if I were to retire on 500,000 sterling.... it would take me decaades to spend it all.....

[Thaiquila]

if u can get 4% interest and live on that,  means 40K baht per month, if all is ok.

Where can I get that 4%?

That is a more complicated question than it sounds.

You indicate you are interested in interest income only, and no capital appreciation potential.

So you want some kind of bond or bond funds.

You can easily get 4 percent on fixed income bond investments; the issue here is whether to use bond funds or actual fixed bond instruments.

If you are willing to tie up all the investment capital for a number of years (my guess is between 5 and 10?), you can get 4 with the guarantee of no fluctation in the asset value of the investment (but of course no access to the capital).

Depends on what country you are in as to the mechanics of buying these things.

Bond funds are dodgy right now because interest rates are at near historic lows, so if you buy into the fund, the net asset value will definitely go down (estimated between 5 and 10 percent), BUT the interest rate will go up, so that would balance it.

You can get even more wise and use the LADDERED approach to buy fixed asset bonds. That way, bonds are regularly coming due, so you buy a new one at the current (higher) rate.

It seems like a pretty confusing time, investment-wise. Stocks seem higher than they can support, and bond asset values will go down. Really rich people are on heavily in cash, on the sidelines.

[mbkudu]

Another option would be to invest in condos. For someone who has the money

(often retired folks do). If you bought two small condo units in central Bangkok and

rented them out, you could pull in close to 40,000 baht a month depending on how big they are. Since the money paid for them is through a Tor Tor 3, you can get your money out of the country if you sell alter. The usual rule of thumb for return

on condo rentals is about 8%, much better than a bank and hopefully the property will appreciate over time (real estate does).

[bodypaul]

It has now been revealed in the Weekly Telegraph!! Mr. Jim Francis, a 62 year old Brit married to a Thai, survives on his disability pension of 9,500 Baht (£136) a month. He reckons that the average Thai family income is 3,340 Baht (£49) a month. The government now requires expats to have either 400,000 Baht in the bank or an income of 40,000 Baht a month. That would be the minimum necessary to stay in LOS

[Stocky]

Well he certainly couldn't survive on his £136 a month in the UK

[joebuzzard]

if u can get 4% interest and live on that,  means 40K baht per month, if all is ok.

Where can I get that 4%?

That is a more complicated question than it sounds.

You indicate you are interested in interest income only, and no capital appreciation potential.

So you want some kind of bond or bond funds.

You can easily get 4 percent on fixed income bond investments; the issue here is whether to use bond funds or actual fixed bond instruments.

If you are willing to tie up all the investment capital for a number of years (my guess is between 5 and 10?), you can get 4 with the guarantee of no fluctation in the asset value of the investment (but of course no access to the capital).

Depends on what country you are in as to the mechanics of buying these things.

Bond funds are dodgy right now because interest rates are at near historic lows, so if you buy into the fund, the net asset value will definitely go down (estimated between 5 and 10 percent), BUT the interest rate will go up, so that would balance it.

You can get even more wise and use the LADDERED approach to buy fixed asset bonds. That way, bonds are regularly coming due, so you buy a new one at the current (higher) rate.

It seems like a pretty confusing time, investment-wise. Stocks seem higher than they can support, and bond asset values will go down. Really rich people are on heavily in cash, on the sidelines.

I'm 38 now and wondering if out of my 50,000-baht-a-month job in Thailand whether I'll be able to save enough to retire on in 22 years. Looks like it may be possible, if I can find the right instrument for savings.

[Simbo]

All this bickering is doing my head in. Don't you know the world is going to end next songcran, when we all drown!

[bodypaul]

Well who needs money ..... perhaps I can live off some bar girl's savings and love

[boogie]

When you mention figures of 40 to 60 k a month are you factoring in rent or not ?

[mbkudu]

if u can get 4% interest and live on that,  means 40K baht per month, if all is ok.

Where can I get that 4%?

Try ING. I think it's based in the States but last time I looked I saw a billboard at

Siam Center. They give much better interest rates than a bank because they don't

have branches with overhead to pay for. I'm pretty sure they could offer as much as 4% depending on the plan.

[thaihome]

if u can get 4% interest and live on that,  means 40K baht per month, if all is ok.

Where can I get that 4%?

Try ING. I think it's based in the States but last time I looked I saw a billboard at

Siam Center. They give much better interest rates than a bank because they don't

have branches with overhead to pay for. I'm pretty sure they could offer as much as 4% depending on the plan.

My bank offers 3.75% for 60 month CD's, that is almost 4% and it is covered by FDIC.

I think that would give about US$11K a year on US$300 without touching principle. That would be about 36K baht a month.

Is my math right?

TH

[12call]

http://www.moneyfacts.co.uk/websearch/s.asp?s=offshore

[joebuzzard]

Try ING. I think it's based in the States but last time I looked I saw a billboard at

Siam Center. They give much better interest rates than a bank because they don't

have branches with overhead to pay for. I'm pretty sure they could offer as much as 4% depending on the plan.

My bank offers 3.75% for 60 month CD's, that is almost 4% and it is covered by FDIC.

I think that would give about US$11K a year on US$300 without touching principle. That would be about 36K baht a month.

Is my math right?

TH

ING Orange is a good idea. And it looks really simple to sign up for, especially since I still have an account in the states.

TH, I'm terrible at math as well. But what's the name of your bank? Do they have online accounts?

[Boon Mee]

Well who needs money ..... perhaps I can live off some bar girl's savings and love

That's what erco's doing!

[thaihome]

TH, I'm terrible at math as well. But what's the name of your bank? Do they have online accounts?

First Internet Bank

I opened account over Internet/Fax. Main reason I opened account was they do international wire transfers with fax request and e-mail confirmation. Not cheap (US$50 each) but that is about what other banks charge and this is only one I found that would do it without going in person. They also will pull money out of another US bank account into your account (ACH) at no charge and have all the bill payment stuff. If you keep a US$500 balance there is no service charge and they pay interest (1.06%, whopee!) on the checking account.

TH

[bodypaul]

Thanks for the posts ..... I think that I will have an income of around 70,000 Baht without cutting into my equity. That will be used for luxuries and travel etc. Reading other forums I don't think it would be wise to invest in real estate in LOS as they say " Never bring to Thailand what you can't afford to lose!" Anyway thanks again for the posts