Lawyers Council to appeal Koh Tao convicts’ death sentence

[TheLobster]

From the judgment report:

'According to the CCTV footage, the Second Deceased was found walking into the AC Bar with her friends at 00.15 hrs, whereas the Second Deceased walked into the AC Bar at 02.08.37 hrs. Thereafter, both Deceased were never found walking out of the Bar until their bodies were found.'

I am led to believe that the B2 were elsewhere.

Edited January 26, 2016 by TheLobster

[Scouse123]

A few pointers.

There is a right of automatic appeal in a death penalty case. Most other cases, but not all,only if they feel the courts time is being deliberately wasted and the facts are overwhelming is it turned down. I can remember an instance of this when an Iranian appealed his sentence on a cheating case years gone by and using a false passport.

He was caught on CCTV clearly with the passport attempting a large card purchase with a gold shop.He was using a false passport in an attempt to provide credibility to a large expensive purchase. When it came to court he tried to claim it wasn't him but they had video footage and rejected his leave to appeal to a higher court, so they can refuse leave to appeal but not as far as I know, in capital murder cases, certainly not in one like this.

It must be noted that if certain points are raised, a complete retrial can be ordered if procedures are found not to have been followed, this usually takes place when extreme pressure has been exerted, however, Thailand is looking for this to go away and as some have rightly pointed out, the powers-that-be have decided this case before it even went to a court. Too many guns are going to lose face, too much money has changed hands and too much corruption has taken place and they are not going to allow it to happen by backtracking now.

With regards to the appeals court, there will be no further evidence put forward. The defence must find fault with the evidence already submitted and registered in court record at the time. This takes place on a daily basis by the judge speaking into a recording device all points of the case he deems necessary, if they are not in court record, he deems them not necessary and it depends on the powers of persuasion of the defence lawyers to get it in the court record on the day there.

In the appeals procedure, the boys will not be summoned to court and will not be required to give any further evidence.There is not an appeals judge, there is a faceless, nameless committee of judges. These judges do not sit every day nor every week. This case can be put before the committee and a couple of pages read and then remarks put on file and it is then placed at the bottom of the pile, the next case comes into view on top of the pile and so on.This procedure goes on and on with many many cases and a huge backlog.This is why a verdict can take years and years.The initial judges reading the case may be completely different to those deciding it. However, this is their system and that's it, fair or not.

The next the boys will hear of this case is when they are summoned to court to ' hear the verdict ' of the appeals court and be given a copy of the verdict and reasons for the decision and it will have three judges names and signatures attached to it. The judge reading this verdict will not be one of the judges who decided it.

Moving to the ' boys in shackles ' statement on here by a poster. This is true because they have been convicted so they will be placed in leg irons which they do live and sleep in and are not removed for a period of time. I am unsure slightly on this point because ' Colin Marin ' author off ' Welcome to Hell ' was required to wear them for a year. He was convicted of murder. However, the judge viewed he ' accepted guilt at the police station ' and gave him about 19 years later reduced to 14 years or thereabouts but that is not similar to this apart from it being a murder case.He did accept guilt but tried to retract later and stated they had placed plastic bags over his head and tortured him. This was not accepted by the judge but his sentenced was reduced because the judge said he admitted it in the police station. You see, this again, was a case of a judge ' selectively choosing evidence he felt was relevant to the case.When the boys retracted their statements, it was said ' it didn't matter what was said at the police station, it only mattered what was said in court!!!!

These boys differ somewhat as they have been given death sentence, so will be segregated from mainstream prisoners and I am not certain if after a period, their chains will be removed, I think they will remove the shackles because this case is not concluded and the appeals are not finished, so it isn't over.

The defence lawyers have asked for easy access to lawyers and Embassy / family visits they be moved to Bangkok. Therefore, if granted which I think it will be, ( no reason not to appear fair now, they have already found them guilty and the authorities can hold this up as to how fair they are being to the unfortunate migrant workers ) they will be moved to Bangkok remand prison, or Klong prem Men's prison which now has a section. for death sentence prisoners because Bang Kwaang was overly full ) or to Bang Kwaang if there is space. It all depends on how easy or difficult the authorities want to be. They will always find a way to justify any decision they make regards where they house these boys.

Either way, they are better there than being held in the South of Thailand with Muslim terrorists, bombers, and various other misfits down there. If they were segregated in the South, it could have been by request of lawyers or to keep them away from a lot of the crazed guys in that prison. They also will have access to good hospital facilities in Bangkok as the medical corrections facility is adjacent to Klong Prem.

I do not want to predict, I am also firmly on the side of belief that these guys have been well and truly stitched up but I think until it all dies down the Thais, being a belligerent bunch will not move on this decision as at the moment they view it as being challenged and their authority in Thailand being challenged. We then will all be treated to a few verses of ' It's an internal affair ', this is ' Thai law ' and all the rest of the xenophobic and nationalistic bile they like to spew out,even though their justice, law courts, and system falls disgustingly below international standards.

I think the best we can hope for is that they be transferred after a period of time back to serve their sentence in Myanmar, on the pretext of fostering good relations with a neighbouring Asian nation or a special case and released on some spurious health or compassionate grounds when it is no longer a headline.

Makes many of us puke, but there you go. I don't honestly see another way. The authorities are not going to back down.

Edited January 26, 2016 by Scouse123

[PaPiPuPePo]

A few pointers.

There is a right of automatic appeal in a death penalty case. Most other cases, but not all,only if they feel the courts time is being deliberately wasted and the facts are overwhelming is it turned down. I can remember an instance of this when an Iranian appealed his sentence on a cheating case years gone by and using a false passport.

He was caught on CCTV clearly with the passport attempting a large card purchase with a gold shop.He was using a false passport in an attempt to provide credibility to a large expensive purchase. When it came to court he tried to claim it wasn't him but they had video footage and rejected his leave to appeal to a higher court, so they can refuse leave to appeal but not as far as I know, in capital murder cases, certainly not in one like this.

It must be noted that if certain points are raised, a complete retrial can be ordered if procedures are found not to have been followed, this usually takes place when extreme pressure has been exerted, however, Thailand is looking for this to go away and as some have rightly pointed out, the powers-that-be have decided this case before it even went to a court. Too many guns are going to lose face, too much money has changed hands and too much corruption has taken place and they are not going to allow it to happen by backtracking now.

With regards to the appeals court, there will be no further evidence put forward. The defence must find fault with the evidence already submitted and registered in court record at the time. This takes place on a daily basis by the judge speaking into a recording device all points of the case he deems necessary, if they are not in court record, he deems them not necessary and it depends on the powers of persuasion of the defence lawyers to get it in the court record on the day there.

In the appeals procedure, the boys will not be summoned to court and will not be required to give any further evidence.There is not an appeals judge, there is a faceless, nameless committee of judges. These judges do not sit every day nor every week. This case can be put before the committee and a couple of pages read and then remarks put on file and it is then placed at the bottom of the pile, the next case comes into view on top of the pile and so on.This procedure goes on and on with many many cases and a huge backlog.This is why a verdict can take years and years.The initial judges reading the case may be completely different to those deciding it. However, this is their system and that's it, fair or not.

The next the boys will hear of this case is when they are summoned to court to ' hear the verdict ' of the appeals court and be given a copy of the verdict and reasons for the decision and it will have three judges names and signatures attached to it. The judge reading this verdict will not be one of the judges who decided it.

Moving to the ' boys in shackles ' statement on here by a poster. This is true because they have been convicted so they will be placed in leg irons which they do live and sleep in and are not removed for a period of time. I am unsure slightly on this point because ' Colin Marin ' author off ' Welcome to Hell ' was required to wear them for a year. He was convicted of murder. However, the judge viewed he ' accepted guilt at the police station ' and gave him about 19 years later reduced to 14 years or thereabouts but that is not similar to this apart from it being a murder case.He did accept guilt but tried to retract later and stated they had placed plastic bags over his head and tortured him. This was not accepted by the judge but his sentenced was reduced because the judge said he admitted it in the police station. You see, this again, was a case of a judge ' selectively choosing evidence he felt was relevant to the case.When the boys retracted their statements, it was said ' it didn't matter what was said at the police station, it only mattered what was said in court!!!!

These boys differ somewhat as they have been given death sentence, so will be segregated from mainstream prisoners and I am not certain if after a period, their chains will be removed, I think they will remove the shackles because this case is not concluded and the appeals are not finished, so it isn't over.

The defence lawyers have asked for easy access to lawyers and Embassy / family visits they be moved to Bangkok. Therefore, if granted which I think it will be, ( no reason not to appear fair now, they have already found them guilty and the authorities can hold this up as to how fair they are being to the unfortunate migrant workers ) they will be moved to Bangkok remand prison, or Klong prem Men's prison which now has a section. for death sentence prisoners because Bang Kwaang was overly full ) or to Bang Kwaang if there is space. It all depends on how easy or difficult the authorities want to be. They will always find a way to justify any decision they make regards where they house these boys.

Either way, they are better there than being held in the South of Thailand with Muslim terrorists, bombers, and various other misfits down there. If they were segregated in the South, it could have been by request of lawyers or to keep them away from a lot of the crazed guys in that prison. They also will have access to good hospital facilities in Bangkok as the medical corrections facility is adjacent to Klong Prem.

I do not want to predict, I am also firmly on the side of belief that these guys have been well and truly stitched up but I think until it all dies down the Thais, being a belligerent bunch will not move on this decision as at the moment they view it as being challenged and their authority in Thailand being challenged. We then will all be treated to a few verses of ' It's an internal affair ', this is ' Thai law ' and all the rest of the xenophobic and nationalistic bile they like to spew out,even though their justice, law courts, and system falls disgustingly below international standards.

I think the best we can hope for is that they be transferred after a period of time back to serve their sentence in Myanmar, on the pretext of fostering good relations with a neighbouring Asian nation or a special case and released on some spurious health or compassionate grounds when it is no longer a headline.

Makes many of us puke, but there you go. I don't honestly see another way. The authorities are not going to back down.

Your post _almost_ makes reading through pages of trolling and hang-em-high triumphalism worth it......sorry, even such a long, well-spoken comment can't quite balance out all the dreck on the last ten pages--post again lol!

[berybert]

These criminals now have organized campaigns of propaganda to build sympathy for them, as if they are the victims. The Justice system needs to move more swiftly and if necessary the laws changed to make capital punishment faster and make appeals a shorter process.

Why are you scared the truth might come out before they are put to death ?

[PaPiPuPePo]

Nice try with the editing

Let me make it clearer for you, I’m saying that they have organized campaigns of propaganda to build sympathy for them, and obviously they can’t organize themselves, but others are organizing on their behalf.

You're just name-calling---"conspiracy," "tittle-tattle," "propaganda," such is a clear sign of a weak argument. To quote you back, "nice try though."

[boomerangutang]

The quicker they change the sentence, lock them up and throw away the key the better.

I doubt if anyone in Thailand wants this to go to gate number 3.

When you got the blood transfusion, did the docs use propalyne glycol by mistake?

[steffi]

What does it speak to exactly? It speaks to keeping them alive before proving their innocence.

I hope you all have noticed, they will appeal the death penalty.
It does not say they will appeal the verdict of guilty.
That speaks volumes.

[AleG]

Its also a mystery to me as to why Ali G and Lucy 11 are not clicking "like" on Greenchair and Stander's posts. Desertion? Second thoughts? Or just having a well deserved break?

Or maybe the weight of knowing the B2 did not do it is telling on some consciences?

I see that the Thailand Justice club is still obsessed about me.

At the moment I have better things to do than to deal with people that have spent almost a year and a half trying to put a square peg through a round hole... and blame anyone and everything else but themselves for their failure to do so.

Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo are murderous rapists, you can't deal with the loss of face for having supported them, hence the need to cuddle together in group denial.

By the way, I have never used the "Like" button, you are just projecting.

Edited January 27, 2016 by AleG

[Jai Dee]

One flame post has been removed from this thread.

[glenmohr]

I'd rather be dead than spend the rest of my life in a Thai prison.

Well said Rethier:

It was reported today under the by line Teeranai Charuvastra, staff reporter, Khaosod news service, that the B2 have been continually mistreated in prison particularly with regard to being confined to their cells and being shackled 24 hours a day. This kind of treatment belongs in the dark ages and should have remained in the Dark Ages. It is now so easy to see where the general is heading. Here is hoping that the unfortunate and unlucky pair can be transferred to Bangkok without delay and then their monitoring and welfare will be much closer to the World's gaze.Shame on you Thailand

Shacked for almost 15 months now. But yet in good health and spirits so I've heard. Something is keeping them strong - guilty men would have weakened by now.

Yes well said, their general demeanour and dignity speaks for itself. Others have to shave their heads and enter a monastery.

[thaiturkey]

ZERO CONFIDENCE IN LAWYERS COUNCIL

I made a formal complaint to them concerning serious misconduct by a lawyer who frequents this site. He is also an LC official.

The complaint was "Nobbled" by his crooked friends

[evadgib]

Great post Scouse 123 but I can't see how this pair can be described as anything other than MEN.

[iReason]

I wouldn't bet on the Lawyers Council...

"Tonight the defense tore into the impartial observer from the Lawyers Council of Thailand who had sat in on the prison interview, prior to the official charging of the suspects,

accusing him of being negligent in his role because he offered Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo no advice at all, and didn’t tell them they could request legal advice."

“He said that because they had already confessed he wasn’t concerned about their rights. He appeared indifferent."

Source: http://www.heart.co.uk/essex/news/local/hannah-witheridge-murder-confessions-to-be-shown/#WUjHwwcTi3OyYoiE.99

P.S.

Thanks for acknowledging your role, JLCrab of Team B.

[jayjay78]

The defense have a difficult job ahead, overturning the conviction would be easy enough in a western court due to the dna farce but convincing the appeal judge is a different story.

The defense has some experts at its disposal such as Jane Taupin and Mark Trowell, I hope this time they will actually use them in court rather than just quoting them in the media.

Pornthip turned out to add some value but not enough, her sidekick though Worawee Waiyawuth who was supposed to be a defense witness actually did more harm to the defense than any other prosecution witness by saying that the police institute was up to international standards, that was a slam dunk for the prosecution and mentioned by the judge in his summary.

Lets hope this time Jane is called to testify.

[evadgib]

"Tonight the defense tore into the impartial observer from the Lawyers Council of Thailand who had sat in on the prison interview, prior to the official charging of the suspects,

accusing him of being negligent in his role because he offered Zaw Lin and Wei Phyo no advice at all, and didn’t tell them they could request legal advice."

There might also be some mileage in the speed(!) by which their Embassy were notified & able to assist in such a serious affair, highlighted in this key phrase from a separate example:

"Leal was not granted consular access, which -- as a foreign national -- was his right under Article 36 of the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations.

The denial of access raises concerns about whether Leal got a fair trial"

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/americas/07/08/mexico.execution.un

Edited January 27, 2016 by evadgib

[JLCrab]

<snip>

P.S.

Thanks for acknowledging your role, JLCrab of Team B.

<snip>

That's OK --what is misdirection to some can be over-their-heads to others.

[joebrown]

These criminals now have organized campaigns of propaganda to build sympathy for them, as if they are the victims. The Justice system needs to move more swiftly and if necessary the laws changed to make capital punishment faster and make appeals a shorter process.

I take it you are referring to the B2 and calling them criminals can you please show the link where they have orgainised campaigns of propaganda ?

Hold on there, Stealth. The B2 are criminals, if you can call coercing the BIB into accepting bribes a crime. Don't you recall that many Myanmar workers on KT were guilty of the same crime of asking the police to overlook their illegal status as immigrants/workers in exchange for backhanders. What's worse is the Myanmar workers' crime of renting motorcycles and then bribing the police to overlook this as well. The Myanmar workers were carrying out other dastardly activities though. Would you believe they even printed 'membership' cards to have their payments recorded by the police. Their devious ingenuity didn't stop there though, they actually had stamps (KT turtle motif) printed and stuck to the cards as physical evidence of payments!! Forgive the unintended pun, but even this criminal charge wouldn't 'stick' in a real court of justice,for obvious reasons, but it is far more believable that the actual evidence of criminal activities laid before the court in this trial.

If you have any local knowledge on how it works here, you would know that the Burmese workers have no say in anything here. It is all set up by the local mafia and police. They just have to go along with it to exist, even on the minute wages they get.

I was relating to the situation in KT. Maybe it's different elsewhere for Burmese workers, but I doubt it. BTW, I have not visited KT, and never intend to. I'm getting too long in the tooth for all that full-mooning stuff. Nevertheless, I hear it's a great place for youth in Asia!

Edited January 27, 2016 by joebrown

[iReason]

"The Migrant Workers Rights Network (MWRN) is a membership based organisation of workers from Myanmar working across the world."

For further enquiries on means to donate to MWRN’s fundraiser or any other information, please contact:

1. Fund Administrator Ko Sein Htay - MWRN President [email protected]

+95(0)949278500/+66(0)946792478

2. Fund Advisor Mr. Andy Hall - MWRN International Affairs Advisor [email protected]

+66(0)846 119209

3. Fund Advisor Mr. Nakhon Chompuchat - Head Koh Tao Case Defense Team Lawyer

[email protected] +66(0)818 473086

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/justice-appealing-koh-tao-murder-case-convictions#/

Edited January 27, 2016 by iReason

[iReason]

[Scouse123]

I answered in another post today on TV in another thread.

It states as I said it would. that the defence is appealing the CONVICTION. If you appeal the CONVICTION, you are obviously appealing the death sentence and verdict of the court of first instance.

So greenchair it looks like the point has been clarified.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Scouse123

[boomerangutang]

The defense have a difficult job ahead, overturning the conviction would be easy enough in a western court due to the dna farce but convincing the appeal judge is a different story.

The defense has some experts at its disposal such as Jane Taupin and Mark Trowell, I hope this time they will actually use them in court rather than just quoting them in the media.

Pornthip turned out to add some value but not enough, her sidekick though Worawee Waiyawuth who was supposed to be a defense witness actually did more harm to the defense than any other prosecution witness by saying that the police institute was up to international standards, that was a slam dunk for the prosecution and mentioned by the judge in his summary.

Lets hope this time Jane is called to testify.

But do Thais in general or judicial authorities in particular want to hear what a farang has to say? From my 30 yrs experience visiting Thailand, I'd venture a combination of the following thoughts would swirl around inside a Thai person's brain when a farang is testifying:

>>> Who are they to tell us what to do. This is our country. They are guests here.

>>> We have experts here in Thailand who are as good as any experts anywhere (an echo of what the chief of police and head investigator said after NS's sham DNA stunt: "We read from the same rule book as the British experts. We won't send NS's DNA typing to the British experts because they already know we're doing a perfect job.")

>>> Farang think they're so superior. Well, we'll show them who's in charge in Thailand (I bet he wouldn't mind getting a US Green Card, though).

Kinda like Thaksin's right hand man, Purachai, after he had spearheaded a screwy morality campaign, fled to reside in New Zealand. Or the Police general who was summoned for a disciplinary hearing for intentionally skewing a murder investigation (of a pretty young farang woman) by putting forth scapegoats: He emptied his bank accounts in Thailand, and fled to Miami, where he still hides. Oh wait, he doesn't have to hide. Thai police aren't looking for him. It's a mai pen rai because he's rich and well connected.

[balo]

They are appealing the death sentence , and with all the pressure on Thailand now they will have to change the sentence , probably to lifetime.

[lucky11]

But he said all points that the lawyers will dispute are all significant that can’t be omitted, and had been said before in the first court.

So they are going with the old evidence that was omitted in the first trial - you know it makes sense, well kind of!! It almost seems that they have no defence, they are onto one big loser here in my eyes. Guilty is guilty, no question about this. Saying please sir is not going to make a jot of difference!!

Edited January 27, 2016 by lucky11

[lucky11]

They are appealing the death sentence , and with all the pressure on Thailand now they will have to change the sentence , probably to lifetime.

In reality, a death sentence is life, as they don't carry out this any more!!

[jayjay78]

The defense have a difficult job ahead, overturning the conviction would be easy enough in a western court due to the dna farce but convincing the appeal judge is a different story.

The defense has some experts at its disposal such as Jane Taupin and Mark Trowell, I hope this time they will actually use them in court rather than just quoting them in the media.

Pornthip turned out to add some value but not enough, her sidekick though Worawee Waiyawuth who was supposed to be a defense witness actually did more harm to the defense than any other prosecution witness by saying that the police institute was up to international standards, that was a slam dunk for the prosecution and mentioned by the judge in his summary.

Lets hope this time Jane is called to testify.

But do Thais in general or judicial authorities in particular want to hear what a farang has to say? From my 30 yrs experience visiting Thailand, I'd venture a combination of the following thoughts would swirl around inside a Thai person's brain when a farang is testifying:

>>> Who are they to tell us what to do. This is our country. They are guests here.

>>> We have experts here in Thailand who are as good as any experts anywhere (an echo of what the chief of police and head investigator said after NS's sham DNA stunt: "We read from the same rule book as the British experts. We won't send NS's DNA typing to the British experts because they already know we're doing a perfect job.")

>>> Farang think they're so superior. Well, we'll show them who's in charge in Thailand (I bet he wouldn't mind getting a US Green Card, though).

Kinda like Thaksin's right hand man, Purachai, after he had spearheaded a screwy morality campaign, fled to reside in New Zealand. Or the Police general who was summoned for a disciplinary hearing for intentionally skewing a murder investigation (of a pretty young farang woman) by putting forth scapegoats: He emptied his bank accounts in Thailand, and fled to Miami, where he still hides. Oh wait, he doesn't have to hide. Thai police aren't looking for him. It's a mai pen rai because he's rich and well connected.

The cultural complexities of having a foreign expert is a massive dilemma for the defense I know.

This would never have even made it to a Western court let alone a guilty verdict being reached because of the huge holes in the prosecution case. But being where it is then we have this travesty of justice that is now going to the appeal stage and unless the defense prepare much better for this then there is no hope.

I'm not even sure actually if the appeal stage allows witnesses or its just closed door between the lawyers, does anyone know about that?

[jayjay78]

They are appealing the death sentence , and with all the pressure on Thailand now they will have to change the sentence , probably to lifetime.

As I understand it balo, they are appealing the conviction but by default this would also include the sentence

http://www.khaosoden...=12&typecate=06

hyo Wai Lin zaw and are forced to remain in their Cell and Wear shackles 24 hours a Day, according to Nakhon Chompuchat Lawyer, Who Will He said file an Appeal of their Conviction Some time in February after being granted an Extension by the Court.

Edited January 27, 2016 by jayjay78

[Tom Cahill]

I hope you all have noticed, they will appeal the death penalty.

It does not say they will appeal the verdict of guilty.

That speaks volumes.

And they've deliberately missed the deadline. They'll try and spin it as thought they're doing them a favour. I hadn't noticed what you'd said until I read it, but you're right. Thankyou for getting in right away and making that point.

[iReason]

"Hmuu Zaw, the manager of the President’s Office, posted on Facebook Thursday that the Myanmar embassy in Thailand would assist law firms and civil society organizations, working with Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun"

“It’s not over yet, we have to do a lot of things,” he wrote in a post that was shared thousands of times."

“If it is necessary, we will appeal to the Thai King’s council.”

http://yangon.coconuts.co/2015/12/24/its-not-over-yet-myanmar-government-promises-back-koh-tao-appeal

Edited January 27, 2016 by iReason

[lucky11]

He simply whines on and on and on - I bet he's a right bore in the pub!! What a waste of space he is. Why doesn't he defend his own case and butt out of this one?

I don't think he is actually helping them, although he thinks that he is their saviour.

[jayjay78]

I hope you all have noticed, they will appeal the death penalty.

It does not say they will appeal the verdict of guilty.

That speaks volumes.

And they've deliberately missed the deadline. They'll try and spin it as thought they're doing them a favour. I hadn't noticed what you'd said until I read it, but you're right. Thankyou for getting in right away and making that point.

Making what point and what point are you trying to make?