Safety Switch tripping...

[bankruatsteve]

^As opposed to "regulated countries"? Perhaps you could name one of those? Or better yet, disappear from this forum.

[samuijimmy]

Wow! A simple question and everyone gets on the bandwagon.... It's why I hate starting new topics on this forum....

Thank you to those with something constructive to say

No tripping today, but I think from my own deduction the source of the problem is the one outdoor plug where rain water could run in coming down the wall, so I put silicon around the box to seal it...The box has a flip lid to cover the plug holes when not in use)....

Time will tell if that works!

[bankruatsteve]

Sounds like you found it.

BTW: THIS forum IMO gets a lot less BS than others. So, don't hesitate to post for that reason.

[sandmike]

SJ ... if that socket was the problem, then it would be worth opening the cover and giving a good spray of WD40 over the terminals too ... every little helps ...

[Crossy]

Wow! A simple question and everyone gets on the bandwagon.... It's why I hate starting new topics on this forum....

Thank you to those with something constructive to say

No tripping today, but I think from my own deduction the source of the problem is the one outdoor plug where rain water could run in coming down the wall, so I put silicon around the box to seal it...The box has a flip lid to cover the plug holes when not in use)....

Time will tell if that works!

We did go somewhat off-topic, but much of the discussion is relevant and important to our lives (and keeping them and those of our loved-ones intact) so nothing significant has been removed.

I prefer to discuss and adjust rather than delete, delete, delete.

Hopefully you have located the source, all you have to do now is keep it dry.

[beerzy]

Ok, I am qualified to talk on this subject...don't touch the 6 milliampere setting as this should not be tripping.... Oh great you have earth connected to the power points but still be careful as it probably runs to a pit and when the ground dries the earth isn't therew and this is common in tropica;l climates.....Also, do you have the earth test on installation although a favourite trick of sparkies in darwin was to pee before they then measured connectivity to the earth....maybe get the electrician to check this too.

now lets look at what happened exactly when the incident happened....I have experienced a refridgerator, a hotwater system and an iron all trip an ELB....so that may give you a start as to where to look as if appliances are polder they can trip the ELB. Hope this helps a little but please let the sparkie sort this out but check the appliances first as he might charge you a callout... don't let him adjust the ELB to 20 mah and ask him for an earth reading but be carefull as he may water the ground first.

[bankruatsteve]

Jeez - where are you all coming from? ^no it can't. ^^My observation is that the RCD was set to 10ma. Whatever. 30ma is the common setting. And, there have been a couple posts relating ground wiring in circuit to RCD function - there is none. Please read the pinned topics before claiming ridiculous "facts".

[beerzy]

What the fridge freezer has is a water tray right under the electrics....

[bankruatsteve]

There's not much "electrics" inside a typical fridge. Sounds like transam is proud to have a defective fridge and/or "solution" for fixing the problem - which, if condition actually exists - could result in fire or worse some day. Cheers.

[SiSePuede419]

"Many heating devices can leak when they are on. e.g.;- Iron, shower water heater, clothes dryer, hot water system, ballast transformers in florescent lights, Low voltage transformers in halogen lights. Pumps, I.R. sensor lights, door bell as someone said, touch sensitive bed lamps, the anti frost heating elements in the fridge shell, etc."

I don't understand why you think this is "normal".

I would say all those products have improper grounding in their design/manufacturing.

There should be no current "leaking" from your hot wire to the return.

[beerzy]

"Many heating devices can leak when they are on. e.g.;- Iron, shower water heater, clothes dryer, hot water system, ballast transformers in florescent lights, Low voltage transformers in halogen lights. Pumps, I.R. sensor lights, door bell as someone said, touch sensitive bed lamps, the anti frost heating elements in the fridge shell, etc."

I don't understand why you think this is "normal".

I would say all those products have improper grounding in their design/manufacturing.

There should be no current "leaking" from your hot wire to the return.

You say "I would say all those products have improper grounding in their design/manufacturing" I say Not at all...Appliances around water can leak occaisionally.. he said only 3 times so het needs to ID the appliance that turns on and get that checked. always by a qualifie sparkie.

abouyt the fridge well the hearting coil and water near the motor can trigger this type of event.

Edited January 30, 2016 by beerzy

[orpheus454]

Random tripping of RCDs / RCBOs can be a nightmare to diagnose.

Less so if you have individual RCDs on each circuit.

Not too expensive these days.

[SiSePuede419]

"Appliances around water can leak occaisionally."

Not if they are designed and manufactured properly.

Any "leakage" from an AC hot wire to an AC return wire is due to a problem -somewhere- and is not "normal".

But I'm just an Electrical Engineer, what do I know about Electrical circuit design...

555

[JAS21]

orpheus454, on 30 Jan 2016 - 22:15, said:

Crossy, on 30 Jan 2016 - 11:19, said:

Random tripping of RCDs / RCBOs can be a nightmare to diagnose.

Less so if you have individual RCDs on each circuit.

Not too expensive these days.

Mr Crossy does have RCBO's on every circuit (and he has a lot of circuits) and fault finding is still a nightmare ....... but less so than just having one Safe-T-Cut. My Safe-T-Cut has direct but you can't select it anymore ....well not easily anyway. Snackbar is quite, suppose it's Changtime.

[beerzy]

"Appliances around water can leak occaisionally."

Not if they are designed and manufactured properly.

Any "leakage" from an AC hot wire to an AC return wire is due to a problem -somewhere- and is not "normal".

But I'm just an Electrical Engineer, what do I know about Electrical circuit design...

555

Hey yes thats true but my ex-wife's iron used to set our ELB off... yet she wasn't shocked.... so some older appliances are prone to a little leakage.

[Snackbar]

No reason to install an rcd on a lighting circuit.

[SiSePuede419]

"my ex-wife's iron used to set our ELB off... yet she wasn't shocked.... so some older appliances are prone to a little leakage."

You are correct. As late as 30 years ago, appliances were leakier than they are now (by design).

I'm not familiar with the type of ground fault detector circuits houses in Thailand use, but in America we use special outlets for "wet" areas, such as bathroom counter or kitchen counter outlets that have ground fault detection built in and a special button to press to reset it, if it trips.

And yes, one of the GFCI outlets I tried to install in my kitchen was "bad" and when I replaced it, it worked.

If you don't know how to safely use a voltmeter around hot electricity, then I would recommend one of these puppies to check out what you got:

http://www.electrical-online.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/GFCI-Plug-Tester.jpg

Edited January 30, 2016 by SiSePuede419

[Crossy]

And yes, one of the GFCI outlets I tried to install in my kitchen was "bad" and when I replaced it, it worked.

If you don't know how to safely use a voltmeter around hot electricity, then I would recommend one of these puppies to check out what you got:

http://www.electrical-online.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/GFCI-Plug-Tester.jpg

At least these are becoming increasingly available here, MeaTech (a branch of MEA) do one. http://www.mea.or.th/minisite/home.php?site=meatech

[Crossy]

No reason to install an rcd on a lighting circuit.

Except when ... - fill in the blanks**.

Snackbar, if I were you I would quit whilst ahead. If you are a sparks in the UK (or anywhere else) I seriously encourage you to do one of the courses on your local regulations.

** Think - TT and Class-1 or maybe 50mm (but that's a cop out)

[beerzy]

"my ex-wife's iron used to set our ELB off... yet she wasn't shocked.... so some older appliances are prone to a little leakage."

You are correct. As late as 30 years ago, appliances were leakier than they are now (by design).

I'm not familiar with the type of ground fault detector circuits houses in Thailand use, but in America we use special outlets for "wet" areas, such as bathroom counter or kitchen counter outlets that have ground fault detection built in and a special button to press to reset it, if it trips.

And yes, one of the GFCI outlets I tried to install in my kitchen was "bad" and when I replaced it, it worked.

If you don't know how to safely use a voltmeter around hot electricity, then I would recommend one of these puppies to check out what you got:

http://www.electrical-online.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/GFCI-Plug-Tester.jpg

yes completely agree with you and also it maybe the ELB is faulty but I think thats remote.

I use a brymen BT 69 digital tester as being a consultant i had to veify the work done by contracters.

But I suggest he gets the company he bought the property from to send back the electrician.

[Araiwa]

+1 on Sandmike's response, no problem setting it to up to 30mA.

If you get tripping then call your sparks, although it really shouldn't be opening even at 10mA.

Have you had rain recently? May be the damp has gotten into outside lighting or outlets.

I had the same problem. Finally I got rid of the garden lighting which was installed by the previous house owner. Problem solved.

[samuijimmy]

For those who have not read,^ the issue seems to be resolved!

I upped the the number and sealed the out side plug box... which was probably the culprit.... We will see next time it rains....

It's a rented house.... BTW... if it does happen again I will ask the land lady to send the electrician!

[Jing Joe]

"Many heating devices can leak when they are on. e.g.;- Iron, shower water heater, clothes dryer, hot water system, ballast transformers in florescent lights, Low voltage transformers in halogen lights. Pumps, I.R. sensor lights, door bell as someone said, touch sensitive bed lamps, the anti frost heating elements in the fridge shell, etc."

I don't understand why you think this is "normal".

I would say all those products have improper grounding in their design/manufacturing.

There should be no current "leaking" from your hot wire to the return.

Hi SiSePuede

Re my words "many heating devices can leak--- etc"

Sorry, I should promptly rephrase that to; "Many heating devices can be the culprits for unacceptable leaking --- etc"

I meant he should look for which one of many could it be causing the tripping.

Looks like it was the outdoor weather problem.

Cheers and thanks, you and I were really on the "same page".

Not likely many will read this but so long as no one took it was OK for devices to leak.

Edited February 9, 2016 by Jing Joe