Thai-born Harvard dentist accused of welching on multi-million baht scholarship debt to Mahidol

[kartman]

Maybe this is all planned don't want to return to Thailand and take a pay cut, don't want to pay 30 million baht cause a storm on social media about the poor guarantors get the loan down to the origional 10mil (according to another paper already done)when the dust has settled pay off the guarantors Bingo book a holiday flight to Thailand

[Maestro]

Removed a troll post.

[ridkun]

Slowly I start believing all honest Thais would fit in one bus. (10 seater that is)

Honest Thais just don't make it to the headlines as often.

[Ks45672]

Slowly I start believing all honest Thais would fit in one bus. (10 seater that is)

Honest Thais just don't make it to the headlines as often.

Honest taxi drivers do.... They get tons of publicity....

[Artisi]

She must be earning enough to pay it off now surely.

Pay your debts lady, you wouldn't be where you are today without that scholarship.

There is a serious problem in the above and the serious problem is language.

Obviously this affair was compiled using the Thai language.

In my working life in many foreign countries in the world my contracts always were compiled in the international business language English with a side Note: that in case of legal involvement with local court(s) the local language (its name) would prevail.

In this case the English word Scholarship is freely used.

Based on my studies (decades ago) J.D. International Law there is a fast difference ... scholarships vs. Loans...

Scholarships are monies given to study and at times include a requirement to work for the institution as an academic.

Student loans are contracts to borrow money to study and are paid back either by cash or by working for the company / govt etc.

In the above what is the case here?

Never came across in my studies of a scholarship being "guaranteed" with cash by third parties, particularly individuals. This is quite strange.

Padej said Dolrudee has only sent back USD-50,000 (THB-1.78 million) for the four guarantors to split between them.

Supposedly the scholarship in question had been granted on condition that the Harvard instructor would return to work at the Mahidol University for a period that was three times the length of her studies at the US University. A normal procedure.

As she did not return, she owed the Thai university triple the amount of her tuition with a fine, which totaled over THB-30 million. The representative said.

Looks like a lesson for Prince Mahidol University in choosing scholars carefully and anticipating the things which might go wrong. Doubt very much care was taken in interviewing and character assessing the scholar. And we can see very little attention was given to tying down the legal and financial aspects of the loan/scholarship. Lazy work by the guarantors who are now holding the bag for not doing their job as guarantors.

Also a good lesson for monetary donors to institutes of Higher Learning (Universities) not to just drop the loot on the desk of the Rector of the Higher Learning Institute and leave it up to her/him to write the donors wishes how to use the donation.

Sorry, a long winded response to a simple already explained problem, nothing to do with language, misunderstanding or any other excuse, she is simply reneging on a standard acceptable condition used probably thousands of times previously by Thai students. Simple outcome is - she is just an a_hole....

[Barontt]

According to her Google+ profile, this is where the kind hearted Dr. Dolrudee has her apartment:

https://goo.gl/2PVQo4

Her estimated annual income is $500,000 to $1 million:

http://www.manta.com/c/mbs5kb3/jumlongras-dolrudee-dds

That seems so much higher than what dentists usually make.

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Dentist/Salary

From several sources I saw, the average is about $125,000 or therabouts. The $500,000 - $1,000,000 is probably gross receipts for the entire dental clinic. Maybe it has other dentists practicing there as well.

[oldsailor35]

I was always told, be very wary of lending money to any Thai as they don't think that you want it back.

[rchapstick]

According to her Google+ profile, this is where the kind hearted Dr. Dolrudee has her apartment:

https://goo.gl/2PVQo4

Her estimated annual income is $500,000 to $1 million:

http://www.manta.com/c/mbs5kb3/jumlongras-dolrudee-dds

That seems so much higher than what dentists usually make.

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Dentist/Salary

From several sources I saw, the average is about $125,000 or therabouts. The $500,000 - $1,000,000 is probably gross receipts for the entire dental clinic. Maybe it has other dentists practicing there as well.

The link from manta.com says that the annual estimated REVENUE is $500k - $1mm, with 1-4 employees. Pretty wide guess. Obviously a very small practice.

And she's an "instructor" at Harvard. The puts her pretty much at the bottom of the totem pole. No six figure salary there.

No way Harvard gets involved in this dispute. Not unless US media picks it up. And so far its all quiet on that front.

[ridkun]

Slowly I start believing all honest Thais would fit in one bus. (10 seater that is)

Honest Thais just don't make it to the headlines as often.

Honest taxi drivers do.... They get tons of publicity....

Giving stuff back to the owner is not the only way to be honest person. There are tons of people who are just honest in general, like those who pay off their student loans in due time or comply to the scholarship condition. Those people never get recognised by the media, only those at two extreme sides got publicity.

[scorecard]

Slowly I start believing all honest Thais would fit in one bus. (10 seater that is)

Honest Thais just don't make it to the headlines as often.

Honest taxi drivers do.... They get tons of publicity....

Giving stuff back to the owner is not the only way to be honest person. There are tons of people who are just honest in general, like those who pay off their student loans in due time or comply to the scholarship condition. Those people never get recognised by the media, only those at two extreme sides got publicity.

Just wondering how much effort there has been by the media to push this lady for some comment and ask her what she intends to do to relief the severe financial hardship she has caused to the guarantors.

Another approach could be to let her know that if she doesn't come forward with some comment and some money the media will put pressure on her parents or brothers / sisters for a comment.

It would also be interesting for the media to approach her husband and push him for a comment, perhaps even ask him if he's going to do the right thing and repay the money.

[Maestro]

Removed a nonsensical post.

[Dan5]

Slowly I start believing all honest Thais would fit in one bus. (10 seater that is)

How many Thais do you actually know? 1? 0? I have a lot of Thai friends and find them to be every bit as honest as Americans. And they wouldn't fit in a 20 person bus. But I guess you aren't unusual on this forum. A lot of people in that just hang around with other farangs and bash Thaus.

[casualbiker]

Slowly I start believing all honest Thais would fit in one bus. (10 seater that is)

How many Thais do you actually know? 1? 0? I have a lot of Thai friends and find them to be every bit as honest as Americans. And they wouldn't fit in a 20 person bus. But I guess you aren't unusual on this forum. A lot of people in that just hang around with other farangs and bash Thaus.

Would you lend any one of your 21 friends a million baht, repayable over 10 years?

[scorecard]

Slowly I start believing all honest Thais would fit in one bus. (10 seater that is)

How many Thais do you actually know? 1? 0? I have a lot of Thai friends and find them to be every bit as honest as Americans. And they wouldn't fit in a 20 person bus. But I guess you aren't unusual on this forum. A lot of people in that just hang around with other farangs and bash Thaus.

Would you lend any one of your 21 friends a million baht, repayable over 10 years?

On the other hand, would you lend 200Baht - 20,000Baht or whatever to every farang you meet in Thailand?

[Bluespunk]

Slowly I start believing all honest Thais would fit in one bus. (10 seater that is)

How many Thais do you actually know? 1? 0? I have a lot of Thai friends and find them to be every bit as honest as Americans. And they wouldn't fit in a 20 person bus. But I guess you aren't unusual on this forum. A lot of people in that just hang around with other farangs and bash Thaus.

I've met Thaus and he's a lovely chap.

I wouldn't harm a hair on his head, never mind bash him.

His brother appolothaus on the other hand is a right #*#$.

Edited February 2, 2016 by Bluespunk

[tolsti]

I have always understood that a scholarship was a reward, free of cost to the awardee, to enable a pretty damn clever but possibly from a from a family who couldn't afford the cost of advanced tuition to be able to get on in this world of privilege. It was never funded by individuals but rather by funds developed by the educational establishments. Some of these are now receiving bad publicity from former and current pupils and alumni. Have a look at the Rhodes Scholarship issue. People who have paid nothing to receive a world class education and are now kicking off!!

[scorecard]

Slowly I start believing all honest Thais would fit in one bus. (10 seater that is)

How many Thais do you actually know? 1? 0? I have a lot of Thai friends and find them to be every bit as honest as Americans. And they wouldn't fit in a 20 person bus. But I guess you aren't unusual on this forum. A lot of people in that just hang around with other farangs and bash Thaus.

I've met Thaus and he's a lovely chap.

I wouldn't harm a hair on his head, never mind bash him.

His brother appolothaus on the other hand is a right #*#$.

I have a Thau setting on my microwave, very user friendly.

[NeoDinosaw]

Posts on this topic so far have concentrated on the despicable behaviour of Dr DJ. But I suspect that Harvard University share a large measure of her guilt in this matter.

Harvard University would have been well aware of the conditions attached to her scholarship and the attendant necessity for her to return to Thailand on completion. They would also be able to calculate the number of years that she must work in Thailand or, alternatively, pay the penalty. They would then know for how many years she was still under contract to Mahidol.

The relationship between universities sending staff for training at other universities is one which must be based on mutual trust and respect. Whilst Harvard could not force Dr DJ to return to Thailand once she gained her PhD, they should at least suggest her to do so. Harvard should not encourage her to break her contract with Mahidol, and under no circumstances should they offer her a job !

It would be interesting to know on which date Dr DJ was hired by Harvard.

It smells to me as though Harvard poached Dr DJ when she was under contract to Mahidol. They would then have not only deprived Mahidol of 20 years work from a highly trained academic, but also have profited from all the fees and other costs which Mahidol paid for her training. Shame on you Harvard !

We could make a comparisons with football teams in Europe. A club cannot even talk to a player they are interested in hiring without permission of his current club. There are massive financial penalties for doing this without permission. If they get permission to talk to the player and a deal seems probable,, the clubs would negotiate his/her transfer fee. This would also apply to a player who has been on loan to another club for one or two seasons and may wish to move.

Did Harvard discuss with Mahidol the possibility of hiring Dr DJ and enquire what monies Mahidol would require to release her from her contract ?

[mike324]

Even if she did return, how does Mahidol or her gurantor expect her to pay them back working at a Mahidol university? The salaries here are pretty low, she would probably spend mroe than half her life paying back that loan.

Looks like she is doing well for herself now in the USA, I'm sure she can pay it back slowly now.

[LannaGuy]

Even if she did return, how does Mahidol or her gurantor expect her to pay them back working at a Mahidol university? The salaries here are pretty low, she would probably spend mroe than half her life paying back that loan.

Looks like she is doing well for herself now in the USA, I'm sure she can pay it back slowly now.

did you read and understand the scholarship? if she RETURNED as promised and signed for then no money would have been requested. It was a Penalty Clause in the contract if she did not return. She is unethical and a liar but maybe Harvard can't tell the difference these days and has shut down it's 'Ethics Committee' and abandoned all hope of Corporate Governance and reputation

[LannaGuy]

Slowly I start believing all honest Thais would fit in one bus. (10 seater that is)

How many Thais do you actually know? 1? 0? I have a lot of Thai friends and find them to be every bit as honest as Americans. And they wouldn't fit in a 20 person bus. But I guess you aren't unusual on this forum. A lot of people in that just hang around with other farangs and bash Thaus.

I've met Thaus and he's a lovely chap.

I wouldn't harm a hair on his head, never mind bash him.

His brother appolothaus on the other hand is a right #*#$.

misspelling he meant 'Faust'

[ridkun]

Giving stuff back to the owner is not the only way to be honest person. There are tons of people who are just honest in general, like those who pay off their student loans in due time or comply to the scholarship condition. Those people never get recognised by the media, only those at two extreme sides got publicity.

Just wondering how much effort there has been by the media to push this lady for some comment and ask her what she intends to do to relief the severe financial hardship she has caused to the guarantors.

Another approach could be to let her know that if she doesn't come forward with some comment and some money the media will put pressure on her parents or brothers / sisters for a comment.

It would also be interesting for the media to approach her husband and push him for a comment, perhaps even ask him if he's going to do the right thing and repay the money.

I believe there were tons of emails in her mailbox now, both from media and Thai people but unfortunately U.S is too far away for Thai media to "push" her. I wonder if any media in U.S would like to pursue this.

Her relatives are quite irrelevant in the decision she made, and her husband might take this as her personal matter (and he might not know much in details). Approaching them for comments like that sounds like an intrusive move for me.

[ChidlomDweller]

Sites like "rate my professor" are used all the time by students nowadays, and you can imagine stories like this about a professor, or any professor at your university, spreading like wildfire. Not good for Harvard, so it's hard to imagine they're going to stand by small fry like her and look like ethical dwarfs themselves. To what end? To protect a thief? Especially the bit about leaving your much poorer guarantors dangling makes this completely unsavory. Imagine having to sit through lectures of this person who disgusts you as a human being.

On another note, I can't vouch for Dentistry, but I have a US PhD myself, and in every discipline I've known it's the norm that once you get accepted into the PhD program, you get a scholarship from the university where you study. This is the first time I ever hear of someone paying for a PhD. Officially there is "tuition", but it's always covered in a scholarship package from the same university. My own university (Columbia) even did away with the scholarship application and merged it with the application for admission, because they're essentially the same thing. What the university gets in return is teaching assistants, research assistants, and reputation. It would be unthinkable for a top university not to have a PhD program, and there's no way any top university could stop giving scholarships. They compete among each other for the best students, and if they still got any students at all, they would be pathetic rich kids who couldn't make it anywhere else.

Anyway, all this to say that this raises big questions to me about the level of someone who gets a PhD through the back door like that. It's a bit like George Bush getting into Yale because his daddy was director at the CIA.

Edited February 5, 2016 by ChidlomDweller

[mike324]

Sites like "rate my professor" are used all the time by students nowadays, and you can imagine stories like this about a professor, or any professor at your university, spreading like wildfire. Not good for Harvard, so it's hard to imagine they're going to stand by small fry like her and look like ethical dwarfs themselves. To what end? To protect a thief? Especially the bit about leaving your much poorer guarantors dangling makes this completely unsavory. Imagine having to sit through lectures of this person who disgusts you as a human being.

On another note, I can't vouch for Dentistry, but I have a US PhD myself, and in every discipline I've known it's the norm that once you get accepted into the PhD program, you get a scholarship from the university where you study. This is the first time I ever hear of someone paying for a PhD. Officially there is "tuition", but it's always covered in a scholarship package from the same university. My own university (Columbia) even did away with the scholarship application and merged it with the application for admission, because they're essentially the same thing. What the university gets in return is teaching assistants, research assistants, and reputation. It would be unthinkable for a top university not to have a PhD program, and there's no way any top university could stop giving scholarships. They compete among each other for the best students, and if they still got any students at all, they would be pathetic rich kids who couldn't make it anywhere else.

Anyway, all this to say that this raises big questions to me about the level of someone who gets a PhD through the back door like that. It's a bit like George Bush getting into Yale because his daddy was director at the CIA.

Harvard's Facebook page is inundated with 1 star reviews, there are also negative reviews on yelp against this professor. Also saw someone started a reddit thread on it.

Edited February 5, 2016 by mike324

[PaullyW]

Sites like "rate my professor" are used all the time by students nowadays, and you can imagine stories like this about a professor, or any professor at your university, spreading like wildfire. Not good for Harvard, so it's hard to imagine they're going to stand by small fry like her and look like ethical dwarfs themselves. To what end? To protect a thief? Especially the bit about leaving your much poorer guarantors dangling makes this completely unsavory. Imagine having to sit through lectures of this person who disgusts you as a human being.

On another note, I can't vouch for Dentistry, but I have a US PhD myself, and in every discipline I've known it's the norm that once you get accepted into the PhD program, you get a scholarship from the university where you study. This is the first time I ever hear of someone paying for a PhD. Officially there is "tuition", but it's always covered in a scholarship package from the same university. My own university (Columbia) even did away with the scholarship application and merged it with the application for admission, because they're essentially the same thing. What the university gets in return is teaching assistants, research assistants, and reputation. It would be unthinkable for a top university not to have a PhD program, and there's no way any top university could stop giving scholarships. They compete among each other for the best students, and if they still got any students at all, they would be pathetic rich kids who couldn't make it anywhere else.

Anyway, all this to say that this raises big questions to me about the level of someone who gets a PhD through the back door like that. It's a bit like George Bush getting into Yale because his daddy was director at the CIA.

Harvard's Facebook page is induated with 1 star reviews, there are also negative reviews on yelp against this professor. Also saw someone started a reddit thread on it.

She's successful, rich and in the US. Average Americans will not be able to care less about what went on in some random 3rd world country that they cannot even point to on a map.

She will be just fine.

[mike324]

Harvard's Facebook page is induated with 1 star reviews, there are also negative reviews on yelp against this professor. Also saw someone started a reddit thread on it.

She's successful, rich and in the US. Average Americans will not be able to care less about what went on in some random 3rd world country that they cannot even point to on a map.

She will be just fine.

She will probably come out and make a public statement if the America news pick up on it.