Sanders transforms into contender, still pitches revolution

[up2u2]

If Bernie goes out the problem is if you do not support Hillary (the 'anointed' one) you are effectively voting for a Republican nutter for President and JT's dreams come true.

[up2u2]

From my POV, Sanders DID get nasty and DID say stupid stuff. Publicus hit it on the head. Sanders DID alienate large parts of the DEMOCRATIC BASE, which I identify with. Doing that, he amplified the reality of his political career. He isn't really a DEMOCRAT in the first place. He only caucuses with the democrats. I'm not saying he would have been nominated if he had skipped the nastiness. Probably not. He went that way out of desperation. Understandable.

What did Bernie say? The last debate before NY Primary got fiery but only on Hillary's voting record and votes on Bills and her cuddling up to Wall Street and corporate Superpacs funding her campaign. Not nasty just pointing out the obvious. Fair comment. Hillary is no shrinking violet.

[Jingthing]

From my POV, Sanders DID get nasty and DID say stupid stuff. Publicus hit it on the head. Sanders DID alienate large parts of the DEMOCRATIC BASE, which I identify with. Doing that, he amplified the reality of his political career. He isn't really a DEMOCRAT in the first place. He only caucuses with the democrats. I'm not saying he would have been nominated if he had skipped the nastiness. Probably not. He went that way out of desperation. Understandable.

What did Bernie say? The last debate before NY Primary got fiery but only on Hillary's voting record and votes on Bills and her cuddling up to Wall Street and corporate Superpacs funding her campaign. Not nasty just pointing out the obvious. Fair comment. Hillary is no shrinking violet.

Not interested in getting into it.

He lost and going into details about what he said to alienate base democrats is just academic masturbation at this point.

[sgtsabai]

That is because the only people that even think he got nasty are empress Clinton shills. At the same time they refuse to recognize how nasty her "campaign" has been from the git-go. Win loose or draw, Clinton and her ilk will face a new world in the future. The young people have awakened, unlike the rest of the sheeple-found their hind feet, and if the DINO's shut them down the so-called Democrat Party is DOA. Good!

[Jingthing]

I tune out anyone who uses the IDIOTIC term sheeple.

Next ...

[Jingthing]

Here are some ideas on how the Bernie supporters can make something positive about this LOSS:

http://forward.com/news/339471/5-paths-forward-for-bernie-sanders-after-another-bruising-defeat-none-lead/?attribution=home-hero-item-text-1

Don’t Leave the Party

In order to play a role in future Democratic politics, Sanders will have to prove in the upcoming months that he can bring hundreds of thousands of supporters out not only to his own rallies, but also to the polling stations on Election Day. And that he can make sure they vote for the Democratic nominee.

[sgtsabai]

Up to you, sheeple. The glove seems to fit.

[HenryB]

Some people have made a thing about Bernie being a Jew but only about 10 percent of Americans say they wouldn't vote for someone just based on being a Jew.

But he has too MUCH BIGGER political problems.

A very large percentage of Americans will never vote for an atheist.

Also, a very large percentage of Americans will never vote for socialist.

Bernie recently "came out" as not associating himself with religiosity which is short of saying he's an atheist, but it's close enough.

People, forget this guy.

It's hopeless!

Those two things are simply insurmountable going into the general election, if he's nominated.

Bernie is closer to a Commie than a Socialist. Funny many Jews consider Bernie a Christian like his wife and Brother admit to be

I think the only Jews who consider Bernie a Jew are ones that do not believe in God.

Yes I am Jewish Believe in God and consider Bernie a Christian Commie

[Jingthing]

Some people have made a thing about Bernie being a Jew but only about 10 percent of Americans say they wouldn't vote for someone just based on being a Jew.

But he has too MUCH BIGGER political problems.

A very large percentage of Americans will never vote for an atheist.

Also, a very large percentage of Americans will never vote for socialist.

Bernie recently "came out" as not associating himself with religiosity which is short of saying he's an atheist, but it's close enough.

People, forget this guy.

It's hopeless!

Those two things are simply insurmountable going into the general election, if he's nominated.

Bernie is closer to a Commie than a Socialist. Funny many Jews consider Bernie a Christian like his wife and Brother admit to be

I think the only Jews who consider Bernie a Jew are ones that do not believe in God.

Yes I am Jewish Believe in God and consider Bernie a Christian Commie

I consider him, and I think correctly, an ETHNIC Jew who currently has very little identification with his Jewishness, even the ethnic part, hostile to Israel (MUCH more than Obama), who is probably a closet atheist (not that there's anything wrong with that), and who is politically a democratic socialist and not an ideological socialist and certainly not a communist. However, I respect your right to see that differently. Cheers.

To add, of course he is a Jewish person, in the sense that he had a Jewish mother and has not formally converted to any other religion. A "good" Jew? No, he's not (neither am I).

Edited April 27, 2016 by Jingthing

[sgtsabai]

The empress will make sure he plays NO role in the future one way or the other. Clinton's play very, very dirty. After the convention he will play lip service, as he should. People like me won't vote for her come hell or high water. Jill Stein gets my vote. Not to worry, the turnip, damn computer, Trump is so hated he will never get elected. Maybe the lowest election turnout in history with everybody voting for the lessor of the most "disliked". Stinks to high heaven. I really do believe the empire is doomed.

[sgtsabai]

HB, you been smokin' a bit of the right wing wacko weed lately? Try a couple of the links I posted up above. You couldn't be further from the truth. Bernie would barely be left of center in most civilized/developed countries. My ex father in law was ethic Jewish, wouldn't darken the door of a Synagogue, flew B-17's over Germany in WWII, flew in Korea, and was Squadron Commander in Vietnam. He didn't go to church, period. I loved him.

[Publicus]

Hell will freeze over before I vote for another "Manchurian Candidate". Don't think a lot of other Bernie supporters don't feel the same way. The US is "going to hell in a hand basket" (no I'm not in anyway religious) because people like you always vote for the very, very lessor of 2 evils and are easily persuaded by "he can't win". I'm done with that. Let the chips fall where they may and we and the world will, unfortunately, reap the whirlwind. I may not live to see the result, but can only hope that good prevails over evil and Clinton is evil as are all Republicans. Our grandkids and great grandkids will be putting this mess back together for a long, long time. We didn't do a very good job.

Fear not sarge, the USA is hopeless but it is not serious or terminal.

So by all means keep a firm grip on the jackhammer, 24/7.

When the job is finished we'll have the new crew in place to fix the road to include the newest potholes left behind.

[NovaBlue05]

From my POV, Sanders DID get nasty and DID say stupid stuff. Publicus hit it on the head. Sanders DID alienate large parts of the DEMOCRATIC BASE, which I identify with. Doing that, he amplified the reality of his political career. He isn't really a DEMOCRAT in the first place. He only caucuses with the democrats. I'm not saying he would have been nominated if he had skipped the nastiness. Probably not. He went that way out of desperation. Understandable.

I thought Bernie has been incredibly cordial toward Clinton. He didn't talk about her potentially legal issues and his criticism of her being a Wall St Corporate lapdog was not only spot on but also extremely relevant to the debate considering the context of his platform.

[sgtsabai]

Publicus, while I usually respect your learned opinion, you are very, very wrong. New crew, same crew, all neocon/neoliberal, more destruction and Clinton should she be empress will not fix a damn thing. Tick tock, tick tock. Do you actually think the Republicans, who will remain in power if she is anointed empress by the not Democrat Party will allow her to do anything? Hell, nobody likes or trusts her. Well, maybe a few sheeple.

[Jingthing]

She wouldn't be my dream candidate or very many people's either.

I think she was more attractive as a candidate when she was running against Obama, but Obama was a historic phenom that nobody could have ever stopped.

There wasn't really a dream candidate running this time.

Certainly not Hillary or Bernie.

Bernie had that socialist label and his image doesn't play well on t.v.

Closer to a dream candidate might be someone like Elizabeth Warren with more experience or a YOUNGER Jerry Brown.

In other words, didn't exist this time.

[Publicus]

The compulsively unrelenting Hillary bashers are constantly full of invective and venom so their nonsense spills over into other matters too.

The long and the short of it is that Bernie Sanders has transformed back into a pumpkin again. In between transformations voters in the primaries put a slipper on HRC's foot. In January Bernie will return to the Senate as the Independent he is and this time as a high profile prince of the American upper middle class and of the youthfully exuberant.

Few who support HRC post positive features of or about her because the proliferation of Clinton assassins and haters always fill subsequent pages with their severe personal bents against anything Clinton, a woman as Potus number one. The rage against HRC from the OTT crowd is indeed too much to keep apace of or to get out ahead of.

When HRC announced for Potus Bernie was a political speck. Bernie and his team have done exceedingly well to establish themselves in the campaign and to excel at it, both substantively and as a matter of style. Bernie's campaign has set America on a new course and the course is a good one. It has impacted America and the world and it has directly influenced the Democratic party, in which Bernie Sanders is a recent arrival and only a nominal one.

Simply counting delegates won in primaries or caucuses, and simply counting raw votes, HRC prevails decisively. Almost all the remaining primaries, to include those tomorrow, are for Democrats only, no Independent voters are eligible, nor are Republicans eligible to switch party affiliation to vote in the interest of their party. Bernie will do well in CA but from here to the end of the primary and caucus process the voter participation is limited to the D party base.

Consequently, Bernie is waaay behind in almost each of the five states that will hold their primaries tomorrow -- PA, MD, DE, CT, RI. I look forward to Bernie's convention speech at the end of July that will bring down the house. And btw, there will not be any third party coming out of this D party contest for the nomination.

Hillary wants Bernie's new voters and the older voters the Vermont senator drew to the polls to support him and his cause. She'd be crazy not to want or court 'em. However, from the time HRC announced last year she needed only the Obama coalition to win, the coalition of 2008 and of 2012. Nothing more than that is required. Now with Trump or Cruz and an outside possibility of Kasich, the Republican nominee will not equal, much less surpass, the Romney losing vote of 2012.

HRC does not need you or any of the other obsessive compulsive Clinton bashers who have no institutional political ties, alignment or involvement that constitutes a commitment that is consistent, regular, informed and most of all, mainstream, to include temperament.

Wow, a much better written post, because It's the real you! Congratulations!

Keep it up!

Your sword is accepted.

Or fallen on.

Not clear which just yet.

Neither. You are reading too much into it.

I was merely complimenting you on your improved writing skills. It seems that you took my advice to heart. Good for you!

I do not accept corrupt HRC and the Democratic Party. And merely calling her critics as "bashers" or "haters" or whatever fails to address their points.

By the way, I used to really like Hillary Clinton. I understand that in politics, as in any other business, sometimes it seems pragmatic to compromise one's principles. However, I think HRC has sold out far too much. Or, maybe she was really always like that and I was naive. Anyway, I think she really loves power and wealth far too much, and at the expense of the people. She has disappointed me. I do hope better women politicians can run for president.

Obviously thx.

I'm not yet used to reading your posts so I dunno how much you equally bash the Republican party or its leading candidates. I'd like to think you are at least an equal opportunity basher of political parties and candidates.

What I'm really looking forward to however to to hear you say you are an Independent in politics. That''s when the fun would really begin.

Most Independent voters fall outside of either party, not in between 'em. As in extreme. Most independent voters think the two major political parties are too moderate for 'em, which is why they're Independents.

Sure, some Independents fall between the two parties ideologically rather than outside of 'em at the extremes. Just not around here they don't.

[sgtsabai]

Bernie, for the first time in many, many years offers a clear choice about the lessor of 2 evils. I have to agree to some degree. Jerry Brown is not exactly who many thought he was. Warren in 4 yrs, possible. So far she has not only talked the talked but walked the walk. I'd certainly vote for her, if she doesn't kow tow to the DINO's. I'm a bit worried about her not endorsing Bernie. I think would have made a difference. One way or the other, Clinton will never be a 2 term empress and shouldn't even be a 1 term.

[up2u2]

From my POV, Sanders DID get nasty and DID say stupid stuff. Publicus hit it on the head. Sanders DID alienate large parts of the DEMOCRATIC BASE, which I identify with. Doing that, he amplified the reality of his political career. He isn't really a DEMOCRAT in the first place. He only caucuses with the democrats. I'm not saying he would have been nominated if he had skipped the nastiness. Probably not. He went that way out of desperation. Understandable.

What did Bernie say? The last debate before NY Primary got fiery but only on Hillary's voting record and votes on Bills and her cuddling up to Wall Street and corporate Superpacs funding her campaign. Not nasty just pointing out the obvious. Fair comment. Hillary is no shrinking violet.

Not interested in getting into it.

He lost and going into details about what he said to alienate base democrats is just academic masturbation at this point.

Just the fact that you are challenging an opponent in a contest means you are going to alienate some people. I just don't see any evidence that supports your accusations that Bernie has been nasty or has engaged in personal attacks towards Hillary. They certainly ripped into each other on voting records but to me between two very experienced political candidates I think recent past history should be questioned. The fact that Hillary takes money from Wall Street and hidden money from Superpacs does raise the question as President who is she going to represent, Wall Street and secret funding from corporations through secretive Superpacs or the citizens that voted for her to represent their interests. Who is actually being alienated here? The Democratic Base or the Democrat establishment that took the Wall Street cash and the secret corporate Superpac slush fund money to bribe and 'stitch up' the nominating delegates. Is that the real problem? The Democrat establishment have taken money in advance to deliver the candidate that will effectively put legislation in place that profits corporate America and the wealthy elite and Bernie comes along and upsets the apple cart.

[Publicus]

Sanders ad hominem attacks have alienated him from the entire Democratic party base.

The primary voting we'll see first thing Wednesday morning our time here are for Democrats only. The five states have party members only primaries. No small 30-minute caucuses of first-time passionate tumbleweeds, no "open" primary states that allow Republicans to switch on primary day to vote in the Democratic party primary to suit Republicans (or vice-versa). Bernie is gonna get whacked in all five of 'em so don't wonder why at this point. Same as in New York state.

HRC is as solid with the D party voter base constituencies as Barack Obama has been in his two elections. Now HRC needs to move toward the center, as has been noted here and as everyone knows. Sanders attacks have been more than policy or institutional attacks, they have been entirely personal, ad hominem, same as the fringe nutcases around here across the board do against HRC. (Some of the fringe try to dress themselves up in Sunday go to meetin' clothing, but they fool only themselves.)

Because Bernie is an Independent in the US Senate, he's always caucused and aligned with the Democratic party in the Senate. It is the D party Senate leadership that gives Bernie committee assignments, its policy research, expertise, voting advice; the D party is Bernie's public platform in the Senate. No committee assignments, no work to do, i.e., no television coverage. If in January Bernie wants to find himself on the Agriculture Committee for a long snooze instead of on the Banking Committee raising hell, he's going to have to tighten some screws upstairs that have become loose. That's just the facts of life and in politics the facts of life can screw you before you wake up.

I disagree with you here Publicus. Bernie had to toughen up a little and take the fight to Hillary. His criticism of Hillary was based on her voting record and the question he posed was looking at that record is she really qualified to be President. Also her close association with Wall Street is she going to be effective as a President with all that 'Big end of town' sloshing about. Absolutely fair enough points to make and to describe them as 'ad hominen' personal attacks is a huge stretch. What personal attacks has Bernie made towards Hillary?

The way the DNC seems to work is people / corporations pay into a main fund and the delegate bribes are dispersed from that fund effectively blocking any challenge to the 'anointed one'. I suppose Hillary learnt from being bundled out by Obama so decided to change the game so she was guaranteed of being the nominee before she even announced her candidacy. That seems to be the deal that was struck.

One point everyone might want to keep in mind is that each political party's national committee set up everything for 2016 during 2013, after the 2012 election had concluded and the dust had settled.

The Republican party did its "autopsy" which was incredibly intended to guide Republicans toward the 2016 general election campaign and voting right up to the end goal of election day in November. The primary schedule and delegate numbers were assigned to, of all things, make it easier for a Mitt Romney type of candidate to win the 2016 nomination in a relative walk. Donald Trump blew it all up sky high.

The Democratic party met after Barack Obama's successful 2012 reelection knowing full well who continued to be the leading candidate for the party's 2016 nomination and for the November general election. Nobody there foresaw Bernie Sanders to include Bernie Sanders himself. But here Bernie has been and here we are, i.e., with Hillary Clinton a handful of delegate votes away from her easy reach to win the nomination straight out.

In short, each party's institutional structure and organisation prepared fully and completely to fight the last war 2012 primary campaign and general election in 2016. In the case of the Institutional Republican Party, they're getting wiped out due to this war fielding new armies and new commanders and blockbuster weapons previously unknown to exist or to be imaginable. For the Institutional Democratic Party, HRC started out last year needing only the 2012 Obama coalition to win in November and this remains true. She'd be crazy not to want or to go after Bernie's voters, but that is a limited voting public to her. The Institutional Democratic Party is not at risk, and neither is the election outcome in November.

Bernie is a success, just not in this election cycle for Potus. Which means it's over for him, but not for his issues. Bernie diminishes his issues however when he personalises them, i.e., takes the ad hominem road. Bernie is incorporating into his campaign and its supporters the Republican central theme that, the more they tear down the candidate, the more voters who get turned off. The more voters who are turned off, the lower the turnout. The lower the turnout, the more Republicans win. Bernie has one foot over this line in respect of the general election. So Bernie's legacy rests with himself and whichever foot he moves now.

[sgtsabai]

I fail to understand your point. Bernie has one foot over the line? What line, the line Clinton never observed? He never tore down Clinton and he should have. He, unlike her, doesn't have to lie, cherry pick and just flat out not answer. Damn, read or listen to her answers, they aren't answers. He only had to tell the truth and didn't do it enough. No matter what he does from this point on, and I hope he stays to the bitter end. Many of those supporting his policies will simply not vote. I will, not for Hillary and in Texass my vote won't matter if it is for any Democrat or Green. All voters aren't stupid, obviously by reading some of the posts here, some are. While Clinton may still become empress, the Republicans will maintain control of Congress insuring absolute deadlock. Whereas with Bernie the Dem's would have regained the Senate and possibly the House. For another 4 years, the US will continue it's slide into a 3rd world country. This time around, not only blame the sheeple, but the corporate Democrat Party and the DINOs that support them. The writing is on the wall. http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_endgame_of_2016s_anti-establishment_politics_20160426

[helpisgood]

I fail to understand your point. Bernie has one foot over the line? What line, the line Clinton never observed? He never tore down Clinton and he should have. He, unlike her, doesn't have to lie, cherry pick and just flat out not answer. Damn, read or listen to her answers, they aren't answers. He only had to tell the truth and didn't do it enough. No matter what he does from this point on, and I hope he stays to the bitter end. Many of those supporting his policies will simply not vote. I will, not for Hillary and in Texass my vote won't matter if it is for any Democrat or Green. All voters aren't stupid, obviously by reading some of the posts here, some are. While Clinton may still become empress, the Republicans will maintain control of Congress insuring absolute deadlock. Whereas with Bernie the Dem's would have regained the Senate and possibly the House. For another 4 years, the US will continue it's slide into a 3rd world country. This time around, not only blame the sheeple, but the corporate Democrat Party and the DINOs that support them. The writing is on the wall. http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/the_endgame_of_2016s_anti-establishment_politics_20160426

Sarge,

Oh, it's a Rbt. Reich article! I almost didn't click because I am tired. This guy is one of my favorites. Thanks! He's sharp and tells it like it is.

By the way, I think he has a good point in your linked article. This next election may not be like 2008. This time, for many more voters, it's much more about being against the system. It's a different game.

If you haven't already seen it, Reich has a short article - also presented as a two-minute video - comparing Trump to Cruz:

http://robertreich.org/post/139677457615

[Jingthing]

The democratic party may indeed have a cold. Or a flu.

The republican party, on the other hand, has pancreatic cancer.

Next ...

[sgtsabai]

Thanks, I had read the article, not seen the vid. He is right. Both catastrophic disasters for the US. OK, so know we have catastrophic and lessor catastrophic. Wow, what a future for our kids and grandkids, oh hell I probably have great grandkids by now, ugh.

[HenryB]

HB, you been smokin' a bit of the right wing wacko weed lately? Try a couple of the links I posted up above. You couldn't be further from the truth. Bernie would barely be left of center in most civilized/developed countries. My ex father in law was ethic Jewish, wouldn't darken the door of a Synagogue, flew B-17's over Germany in WWII, flew in Korea, and was Squadron Commander in Vietnam. He didn't go to church, period. I loved him.

Would you like him if he went everyday to Synagogue like a Religious Jew? I can tell you I would like him for defending the USA. Many people who bigots just love Jews who never got to Synagogue. Did you every like a Jew that went even one a week to a Synagogue

[CWMcMurray]

Updated headline for thread:

Sanders' path to nomination now virtually impossible; supporters in crybaby/denial mode

https://www.washingtonpost.com/

Former secretary of state all but secures nomination

While not mathematically eliminated, Sen. Bernie Sanders remains far behind and now faces nearly impossible odds.

You are of course correct, and what is also true is that whatever mandate his followers think they have is now mostly unimportant to Clinton as she seems to have the power to win without Sanders supporters. Sanders has no bargaining power, and his supporters have no bargaining power. Clinton will just pay lip service to whatever part of his platform might serve her interests.

Hilary Clinton is firmly in control now to be not only the nominee, but the new POTUS. We non supporters will have to live with that and move on to what are the implications of her leadership.

.....Clinton will just pay lip service to whatever part of his platform might serve her interests.....

The above is the part of your comments that really resonate with me...

And agree , at the end of the day.. Hillary is only about Hillary...

That's why I don't think I can bring myself to vote for her

[helpisgood]

Wow, a much better written post, because It's the real you! Congratulations!

Keep it up!

Your sword is accepted.

Or fallen on.

Not clear which just yet.

Neither. You are reading too much into it.

I was merely complimenting you on your improved writing skills. It seems that you took my advice to heart. Good for you!

I do not accept corrupt HRC and the Democratic Party. And merely calling her critics as "bashers" or "haters" or whatever fails to address their points.

By the way, I used to really like Hillary Clinton. I understand that in politics, as in any other business, sometimes it seems pragmatic to compromise one's principles. However, I think HRC has sold out far too much. Or, maybe she was really always like that and I was naive. Anyway, I think she really loves power and wealth far too much, and at the expense of the people. She has disappointed me. I do hope better women politicians can run for president.

Obviously thx.

I'm not yet used to reading your posts so I dunno how much you equally bash the Republican party or its leading candidates. I'd like to think you are at least an equal opportunity basher of political parties and candidates.

What I'm really looking forward to however to to hear you say you are an Independent in politics. That''s when the fun would really begin.

Most Independent voters fall outside of either party, not in between 'em. As in extreme. Most independent voters think the two major political parties are too moderate for 'em, which is why they're Independents.

Sure, some Independents fall between the two parties ideologically rather than outside of 'em at the extremes. Just not around here they don't.

Yes, I am an Indie, but not an extremist. I just get very disappointed with both the Dems and the Reps. They always say that they are fighting for us, but I follow the money.

I am not sure exactly where I fall on the political spectrum, but it is somewhere on the moderate range. I do think that some American religious "social conservatives" will think I am quite the liberal. Yet, some of those folks seem to be living way in the past, so I guess it's a matter of perspective.

And yes, I'll bash the Republicans as well.

[Rancid]

Yeah, looks like Bernie's run is done, at least he admits being a socialist, unlike the rest that have built the US welfare state whilst denying it. So now the Democrats get to present us with Killary, just like they always intended, if elected I wonder how many countries she can rape and desecrate in her first term? Admittedly previous Presidents are a hard act to follow, but if anyone's up to the job...

[anotheruser]

Not going through 40 plus pages of this thread to see it has been said..., Sanders should run as an independent same as Trump will do when something happens to keep him from getting the nomination. 4 way fight would possibly be the end of the two party system.

[up2u2]

Not going through 40 plus pages of this thread to see it has been said..., Sanders should run as an independent same as Trump will do when something happens to keep him from getting the nomination. 4 way fight would possibly be the end of the two party system.

Crazy talk. You then split the Democrat vote and hand the Presidency to Republicans. If you think America is bad now what till they take over for 4 years. Carnage.

[jmd8800]

Something a liberal wrote about liberals. An adaptation of Thomas Frank's "Listen, Liberal: Or, What Ever Happened to the Party of the People?"

http://thebaffler.com/salvos/withering-vine-tom-frank

I don't think the Democrats have any intention of representing the middle/working class people.

Full disclosure: I am a liberal by classic definition: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/liberal and not the bastardized version of the word people like Rush Limbaugh like to toss around.

P.S I don't think #FeelTheBern spends any time "Withering on the Vine"

Edited April 28, 2016 by jmd8800