Sanders transforms into contender, still pitches revolution

[chuckd]

Bernie has the opportunity now to actually form a credible new political Party in America. Use the support and momentum he has acquired from being a candidate. A real alternative to the two major Party system. I'll have to think up a name for Berrnie.

Social Reform Party

Social Independent Party

The Peoples Reform Party

Need a really cool logo too and an animal of some kind. Donkey and Elephant taken. I like those Squirrels I think they are cute.

There already exists a party right up Bernie's alley...the Democratic Socialists of America.

They already have a neat logo but I don't know about their mascot. Maybe an insect of some sort.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Socialists_of_America

[up2u2]

Looking at that Logo I think a Lady Beetle would be perfect.

[thaihome]

How low can you go? https://jonathanturley.org/2016/05/06/poll-negative-views-of-trump-and-clinton-reach-historic-levels/

I don't that the political nomination process is to blame for two candidates with such high unfavorable ratings winning the nominations.

The problem is the divisive atmosphere that has been created by the conservative entertainment industry in the past 25 years.

An atmosphere that is largely based on half truths, conspiracy theories, and often outright lies, with Hillary a particular target.

Trump has created his own unfavorable ratings by catering to the conservative entertainment industry's core audience that a majority of the rational population sees for what it is.

TH

"the conservative entertainment industry"

ROFLMAO. That's the first time I've ever heard anyone jumble those words together! Ludicrous and oxymoronic in the extreme.

Wish I could claim credit but I first saw it in the book "Why the Right Went Wrong: Conservatism--From Goldwater to the Tea Party and Beyond" by E.J. Dionne Jr. Do a Google search. It is a well known phrase describing a very profitable industry that has grown up feeding half truths, conspiracy theories and lies to keep everything at a fever pitch. The irony now is they have created the environment for a Trump to flourish but he is not their choice.

TH

[helpisgood]

How low can you go? https://jonathanturley.org/2016/05/06/poll-negative-views-of-trump-and-clinton-reach-historic-levels/

I don't that the political nomination process is to blame for two candidates with such high unfavorable ratings winning the nominations.

The problem is the divisive atmosphere that has been created by the conservative entertainment industry in the past 25 years.

An atmosphere that is largely based on half truths, conspiracy theories, and often outright lies, with Hillary a particular target.

Trump has created his own unfavorable ratings by catering to the conservative entertainment industry's core audience that a majority of the rational population sees for what it is.

TH

"the conservative entertainment industry"

ROFLMAO. That's the first time I've ever heard anyone jumble those words together! Ludicrous and oxymoronic in the extreme.

Wish I could claim credit but I first saw it in the book "Why the Right Went Wrong: Conservatism--From Goldwater to the Tea Party and Beyond" by E.J. Dionne Jr. Do a Google search. It is a well known phrase describing a very profitable industry that has grown up feeding half truths, conspiracy theories and lies to keep everything at a fever pitch. The irony now is they have created the environment for a Trump to flourish but he is not their choice.

TH

Perhaps not the most popular expression, but it does have some currency and it does makes sense.

I think hawker9000 was out of line.

Thanks thaihome for your contribution!

[jmd8800]

How low can you go? https://jonathanturley.org/2016/05/06/poll-negative-views-of-trump-and-clinton-reach-historic-levels/

I don't that the political nomination process is to blame for two candidates with such high unfavorable ratings winning the nominations.

The problem is the divisive atmosphere that has been created by the conservative entertainment industry in the past 25 years.

An atmosphere that is largely based on half truths, conspiracy theories, and often outright lies, with Hillary a particular target.

Trump has created his own unfavorable ratings by catering to the conservative entertainment industry's core audience that a majority of the rational population sees for what it is.

TH

"the conservative entertainment industry"

ROFLMAO. That's the first time I've ever heard anyone jumble those words together! Ludicrous and oxymoronic in the extreme.

Wish I could claim credit but I first saw it in the book "Why the Right Went Wrong: Conservatism--From Goldwater to the Tea Party and Beyond" by E.J. Dionne Jr. Do a Google search. It is a well known phrase describing a very profitable industry that has grown up feeding half truths, conspiracy theories and lies to keep everything at a fever pitch. The irony now is they have created the environment for a Trump to flourish but he is not their choice.

TH

After having lived around 'the industry' (it used to be called 'the biz') as it is referred to these days for the better part of 25 years I can honestly say "pour gasoline on Hollywood and light it". Hollywood runs right up there with Rush Limbaugh in half truths, misleading story lines etc. I cannot recount the number of times during a serious discussion and someone goes to make a point by citing some Hollywood movie. Unbelievable. Hollywood makes fantasy so real that you want to step inside them and live them. And many many people in the USA do just that. Hollywood's job is exactly the same as GM, Ford, Apple, Microsoft, Goldman Sachs and that is to make money. And they do. Remember Jim Garner's lawsuit ????

The upper crust of Hollywood is neoliberal. (Neoliberalism is neither new nor liberal.) Supporters of Hillary and that ilk. Wanna be civil rights leaders and they are likely to be opposed to war yet probably refuse to sell their stock in Raytheon or Boeing or any other defense contractor.

Some of the creative people will fall in the left side of things but as is well known in Hollywood you shouldn't speak too loudly of issues that can 'damage' your career. Tom Hanks and Susan Sarandon can say what they want... but up and comers cannot.

And that leaves the greatest number of people in 'the industry'. The average guy/girl. The security guards on the set. The electricians. The grips. The Stunt people. Geez that list goes on and on and on. A huge number of them live in the Santa Clarita area. They are definately for Trump would be my guess. (Though I have not been in LA since Trump gained popularity so it is hard to say) Santa Clarita is very Republican..... blue collar Republican. I think that is Trump's kind of Republican.

Disclaimer: I am liberal. Very liberal if you work with the classical definition of liberal. (Not the Rush Limbaugh bastardized word of today). Any way... I don't think Hollywood is very liberal at all.

Edited May 6, 2016 by jmd8800

[hawker9000]

LOL. I'll see your "blue collar Republicans" and raise you one Sean Penn, a Michael Moore, a Jane Fonda, a Susan Sarandon, and two Sheens. (I'd go "all in", but with Hollywood wingnuts, that'd crush the legs on the table...)

[jmd8800]

For those of you still #Whorin'ForHillary you can see where her future lay:

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/hilary-clinton-bush-donors-222872

I seriously doubt Bernie would have done this. But we'll never know.

[thaihome]

After having lived around 'the industry' (it used to be called 'the biz') as it is referred to these days for the better part of 25 years I can honestly say "pour gasoline on Hollywood and light it". Hollywood runs right up there with Rush Limbaugh in half truths, misleading story lines etc. I cannot recount the number of times during a serious discussion and someone goes to make a point by citing some Hollywood movie. Unbelievable. Hollywood makes fantasy so real that you want to step inside them and live them. And many many people in the USA do just that. Hollywood's job is exactly the same as GM, Ford, Apple, Microsoft, Goldman Sachs and that is to make money. And they do. Remember Jim Garner's lawsuit ????

The upper crust of Hollywood is neoliberal. (Neoliberalism is neither new nor liberal.) Supporters of Hillary and that ilk. Wanna be civil rights leaders and they are likely to be opposed to war yet probably refuse to sell their stock in Raytheon or Boeing or any other defense contractor.

Some of the creative people will fall in the left side of things but as is well known in Hollywood you shouldn't speak too loudly of issues that can 'damage' your career. Tom Hanks and Susan Sarandon can say what they want... but up and comers cannot.

And that leaves the greatest number of people in 'the industry'. The average guy/girl. The security guards on the set. The electricians. The grips. The Stunt people. Geez that list goes on and on and on. A huge number of them live in the Santa Clarita area. They are definately for Trump would be my guess. (Though I have not been in LA since Trump gained popularity so it is hard to say) Santa Clarita is very Republican..... blue collar Republican. I think that is Trump's kind of Republican.

Disclaimer: I am liberal. Very liberal if you work with the classical definition of liberal. (Not the Rush Limbaugh bastardized word of today). Any way... I don't think Hollywood is very liberal at all.

I was not referring to the Hollywood entertainment industry. I was referring to entertainment industry led by Fox News and it's talk shows that cater to a specific segment of the US population.

TH

Edited May 7, 2016 by thaihome

[sgtsabai]

jmd8800, That is a good article and shows exactly what Clinton is and who she really represents. Bernie would never, has never do what she has done. I would wager a guess that he would reach out to Republican voters as he has independents, but to money power brokers, no way. Without Bernie, the only possible good to come out of this farce of an election could be the destruction of the Republican and Democrat Parties as we know them. Knowledgeable, sane, thinking people have long known how bad the right wingnut Republican Party is. The corrupt, corporate Democrat and especially the DNC has been exposed for all to see. At best they have become Republican lite, neocon/neoliberals representing not the people but big business, Wall Street criminals/Banksters, the military/spy/industrial war/police state complex.

[sirineou]

jmd8800, That is a good article and shows exactly what Clinton is and who she really represents. Bernie would never, has never do what she has done. I would wager a guess that he would reach out to Republican voters as he has independents, but to money power brokers, no way. Without Bernie, the only possible good to come out of this farce of an election could be the destruction of the Republican and Democrat Parties as we know them. Knowledgeable, sane, thinking people have long known how bad the right wingnut Republican Party is. The corrupt, corporate Democrat and especially the DNC has been exposed for all to see. At best they have become Republican lite, neocon/neoliberals representing not the people but big business, Wall Street criminals/Banksters, the military/spy/industrial war/police state complex.

Now the DNC is packing the convention rules making comity with Clinton supporters

"In a Friday letter to DNC Chairwoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz, Sanders said the convention committees don’t reflect the fact that he was won 45 percent of the pledged delegates awarded throughout the primary season thus far. The Vermont senator said Wasserman Schultz only appointed three of the 40 people he had recommended to sit on the convention’s standing committees."

https://www.rt.com/usa/342130-sanders-dnc-clinton-convention/

[sgtsabai]

An interesting article on the foreign policy of the candidates from War On the Rocks: http://us7.campaign-archive1.com/?u=d7ef269a938293a6f144a90be&id=38513c4ca4&e=344fdc16b5

[up2u2]

Interesting points on Trump's Foreign Policy position Sarge. It's like watching a mad rabid dog running up the street. Hard to tell where it is going to end up. One thing I do know is, on Foreign Policy, Trump hasn't the first or second clue.

[sgtsabai]

Thanks, like the Republican Party, the corporate Democrat Party is set to implode. I hope Bernie is the trigger and fights to the bitter end. They will loose all the energy and youth he has brought to the party. The American people have brought this on themselves after years of being sheeple, but still deserve better than this disaster of a farce of an election. Frankly while we may not see it this election farce, I would not be surprised to see a viable progressive 3rd party come out of the debris. And may the racist, KKK loving, right wingnut Republican party, sink to they depths of hell from which they arose.

[jmd8800]

I wonder if other states will follow:

http://www.truthdig.com/eartotheground/item/maine_democrats_change_superdelegate_system_in_single_vote_20160507

It will be interesting to see if any changes occur to the primary system after this election cycle.

[jmd8800]

@thaihome... my apologies. I tend to lump everything 'entertainment' into one category.

[sgtsabai]

jmd8800, you beat me to it. I think some will follow, hope they will Maine's example. No change, America continues it's rapid slide into a 3rd world plutocratic, fascist, police/surveillance state. My latest: http://www.truthdig.com/report/print/across_la_hope_remains_for_a_big_upset_in_the_california_primary_20160506

http://vetsforbernie.org/2016/05/hillary-clinton-sheldon-silver-corruption/

http://www.truthdig.com/report/print/across_la_hope_remains_for_a_big_upset_in_the_california_primary_20160506

http://www.nationofchange.org/news/2016/05/07/bernie-sanders-warns-dnc-not-stack-deck/

http://www.nationofchange.org/news/2016/05/06/maine-democrats-move-eliminate-superdelegates/

http://www.alternet.org/comments/election-2016/contested-convention-exactly-what-democratic-party-needs#disqus_thread

https://theintercept.com/2016/05/06/hillary-super-pac-draft-oped/

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/05/03/hillary-clintons-foreign-policy-resume-what-the-record-shows/

http://www.opednews.com/populum/printer_friendly.php?content=a&id=202248

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Voting-for-Empire-is-the-S-by-Peter-Phillips-Global-Elite_NATO_Ruling-Elites_War-On-Terrorism-160506-119.html

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Sanders-to-DNC-Don-t-Stac-by-Press-Release-Bernie-Sanders-2016-Presidential-Candidate_DNC-Rules-Committee_Democrats-DNC_Party-Platform-DNC-160506-838.html

https://berniesanders.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Sanders-Letter-to-DNC-5.6.16.pdf

http://www.soldiersforpeaceinternational.org/

https://datadrivenviewpoints.com/

[Jingthing]

She's really not that bad ... and she'll be the ONLY choice left to stop the psychopathic demagogue.

Hillary Clinton speaks to the L.A. Times editorial board about war, women and her ability to navigate partisan obstructionism

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/la-ol-hillary-clinton-editorial-board-meeting-20160505-snap-story.html

Have a listen:

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-hillary-clinton-negativity-20160506-snap-htmlstory.html

[helpisgood]

She's really not that bad ... and she'll be the ONLY choice left to stop the psychopathic demagogue.

Hillary Clinton speaks to the L.A. Times editorial board about war, women and her ability to navigate partisan obstructionism

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/la-ol-hillary-clinton-editorial-board-meeting-20160505-snap-story.html

Have a listen:

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-hillary-clinton-negativity-20160506-snap-htmlstory.html

How tragic that in a superpower country as big and as wealthy as the USA - a country that has produced a multitude of amazing talent like an Elon Musk, a number of Nobel Prize winners and so many others - that someone can fairly say that the better choice for president might (Bernie's still has a shot) be someone who is "really not that bad." How tragic and how sad that the American political system has failed so badly.

How did we go from choosing between John Adams and Thomas Jefferson for president to choosing between Hillary "the sweetheart of big money" Clinton and Donald "the jokes write themselves" Trump?

Ideally, and yes ideally, the American people should be thinking about a third-party candidate like a Jill Stein or a Gary Johnson. I honestly don't know much about them, but who really does? The mainstream media, sponsored by big money, isn't going to give them any time. This is all about either taking money from big business (Clinton) or generating great ratings for the media (Trump). It's not that much of a true democracy, if at all.

[Jingthing]

I'll agree the Clinton vs. Trump binary choice is a sad outcome. But that will be the choice and if you're for Sanders now and you actually think Trump would be better, I find that insane. But up to you!

[helpisgood]

It's time to buck the system and vote either Bernie or third party. They rely upon our compliance to be "practical" and to give up yet again. It's insane to accept this year after year after year ad nauseam.

[up2u2]

She's really not that bad ... and she'll be the ONLY choice left to stop the psychopathic demagogue.

Hillary Clinton speaks to the L.A. Times editorial board about war, women and her ability to navigate partisan obstructionism

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/la-ol-hillary-clinton-editorial-board-meeting-20160505-snap-story.html

Have a listen:

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-hillary-clinton-negativity-20160506-snap-htmlstory.html

How tragic that in a superpower country as big and as wealthy as the USA - a country that has produced a multitude of amazing talent like an Elon Musk, a number of Nobel Prize winners and so many others - that someone can fairly say that the better choice for president might (Bernie's still has a shot) be someone who is "really not that bad." How tragic and how sad that the American political system has failed so badly.

How did we go from choosing between John Adams and Thomas Jefferson for president to choosing between Hillary "the sweetheart of big money" Clinton and Donald "the jokes write themselves" Trump?

Ideally, and yes ideally, the American people should be thinking about a third-party candidate like a Jill Stein or a Gary Johnson. I honestly don't know much about them, but who really does? The mainstream media, sponsored by big money, isn't going to give them any time. This is all about either taking money from big business (Clinton) or generating great ratings for the media (Trump). It's not that much of a true democracy, if at all.

I question whether America is wealthy or a Superpower any more. Now before you flip out let me explain why. Sure there a few who are VERY VERY wealthy but that wealth is concentrated between a few at the top. The 1%'ers. As for a Superpower sure but only on paper in a conventional war. When it comes to backward religious nutters with a warped ideology all the rockets in the world over ten long years and trillions of American's tax payer dollars are pretty much still at the starting line. It has just got worse not better.

They are jealous of our freedoms and democracy. Really? Well if you are one of the 11Million Hispanics you are going to be thrown out of the country with your children, or Black look the wrong way at a police officer and it is likely he will shoot you, 10% of the population in Jail? No freedom for those 3 million. Democracy? Are you serious Corporate America has purchased Congress lock stock and barrel. You get a choice of bad (Hillary) or VERY bad (Trump). The 'American Dream' well that died 20 years ago along with the Middle Class. The most expensive Health Care system in the world by a country mile including pharmaceuticals and worse patient outcomes. Voter suppression laws to stop people from being able to vote. A Supreme Court that passes judgements along Party Political lines. Corporations and wealthy elite who ship money offshore to avoid tax and Wall Street have citizens and the government by the goolies. Riddled with gun violence with 33K people killed year in year out. Including little children. Many people can work a full time job and need food stamps to survive. $9 p/h job are you kidding me.

It is just a complete shambles from start to finish.

America the wealthy world Super Power. Sorry that was a long time ago. Those days are long gone.

Bernie addresses each and everyone of these issues. Can he get elected in a fair democratic system? Not a hope in hell.

[cumgranosalum]

I'm with Sanders all the way......let's face it if things get tough, he can just jump back in his DeLorean and go back and sort everything out!

[sgtsabai]

Was that supposed to be funny? It wasn't. Not only is the US future at stake, so is the world's. Here is a funny: https://youtu.be/OwzVk9TPKzQ

[NeverSure]

[Boon Mee]

He isn't referred to a Crazy Bernie for nothing you know...

Hasn't a clue re economics nor much else for that matter.

[cumgranosalum]

Was that supposed to be funny? It wasn't. Not only is the US future at stake, so is the world's. Here is a funny: https://youtu.be/OwzVk9TPKzQ

What is "funny" at the moment is the whole political situation in the USA........it's very reminiscent of the decline and fall of the Roman Empire......but one thing you can be sure of is they average American will not learn from history....as they've never even heard of it.

[up2u2]

Rather than simplistic and childish cartoons Boon Mee how about looking at the issue like an adult.

Yes the minimum wage needs to be raised and by a substantial amount. The 'fix' went in under Reagan (Reaganomics). So if wages had kept pace with inflation and a reasonable share of productivity (increase in GDP/wealth) the minimum wage today would be $21 ph. Essentially reduce Taxes for the wealthy and Corporate America. Slowly this shifted the profits upwards forming the 1% elite and Corporations emptied the cash in Treasury and wiped out the Middle Class. Both groups shipped the money offshore beyond the reach of the Treasury and became untraceable and untaxable. That is what offshore tax havens do. Once the money goes in it breaks the link between the beneficiary / owner of the funds. It then heads for a new destination and is not taxed.

So Bernie is actually spot on. What needs to occur is to gradually increase Tax on the 1%'ers and Corporate America to slowly claw that money back into the economy. Also raise the minimum wage to reset the economy prior to the 'fix' going in by Reagan. You want jobs and growth that is the approach. This occurred over 20 years so you need to do it gradually so you don't crash the economy. Hyper inflation, or recession as you try to claw money back hidden offshore by Corporations.

Recently Apple needed $60B capital injection for a new project. They actually had those cash reserves parked offshore in a Tax Haven. Rather than bring the capital back onshore and pay Tax on it they decided to take out a loan for the Capital required and claim a Tax deduction from the American Tax payer for the interest charged. It could be quite possible the capital they borrowed was actually their own offshore capital pushed into a financial instrument.

So as you see Boon Mee it is a little more complicated than a simplistic childish cartoon.

[Boon Mee]

One thing I do know is, on Foreign Policy, Trump hasn't the first or second clue.

And Obama + Clinton have/had a 'clue'?

It's been a disaster unfolding since Barry Soetoro was elected.

[helpisgood]

Also, I have heard this mentioned several times, wages at the current minimum rate result in workers needing and getting food stamps, etc. Thus, taxpayers are essentially subsidizing some companies' payrolls. Isn't that handing out "free stuff"?

There is also the argument that by giving good wages to workers that helps to stimulate the economy because those workers buy more goods and services. Such ideas were long ago used by such "socialists" as Henry Ford:

http://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2014/01/03/history/post-perspective/ford-doubles-minimum-wage.html

In brief, he paid his workers double the minimum wage so that his workers could afford to buy the cars.

So, up2u2 is right that it is not as simple as a childish cartoon.

[SpokaneAl]

Also, I have heard this mentioned several times, wages at the current minimum rate result in workers needing and getting food stamps, etc. Thus, taxpayers are essentially subsidizing some companies' payrolls. Isn't that handing out "free stuff"?

There is also the argument that by giving good wages to workers that helps to stimulate the economy because those workers buy more goods and services. Such ideas were long ago used by such "socialists" as Henry Ford:

http://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2014/01/03/history/post-perspective/ford-doubles-minimum-wage.html

In brief, he paid his workers double the minimum wage so that his workers could afford to buy the cars.

So, up2u2 is right that it is not as simple as a childish cartoon.

It is also not as simplistic as he would have us believe that every corporation is evil, every dollar going off shore is horded to avoid taxes, simply tax corporations more and all will be well, bigger government is the solution, every options contract is wrong and should be stopped, whatever the wealthy are taxed it is not enough . . . Edited May 12, 2016 by SpokaneAl