need advice opening small-ish thai restaurant in pattaya.

[donnybay]

Sukhumvit road for your equipment I would say, I have noticed several Thai places making the canopy's ect , there is also a place on third rd near junction this Pattaya Tai with catering equipment, the big place behind BigC Festival for cutlery and plates small equipment , condiment sets glassware and possibly tables chairs, thats where i would go

[dirtycash]

Sukhumvit road for your equipment I would say, I have noticed several Thai places making the canopy's ect , there is also a place on third rd near junction this Pattaya Tai with catering equipment, the big place behind BigC Festival for cutlery and plates small equipment , condiment sets glassware and possibly tables chairs, thats where i would go

thankyou donnybay. i see the chef today to see if i need to buy the big double stainless steel cooking range with hood or if i can get away with a couple of gas burners 4000 baht each from a place on sukumvit and a small hood for 6000.

[NanLaew]

Sukhumvit road for your equipment I would say, I have noticed several Thai places making the canopy's ect , there is also a place on third rd near junction this Pattaya Tai with catering equipment, the big place behind BigC Festival for cutlery and plates small equipment , condiment sets glassware and possibly tables chairs, thats where i would go

thankyou donnybay. i see the chef today to see if i need to buy the big double stainless steel cooking range with hood or if i can get away with a couple of gas burners 4000 baht each from a place on sukumvit and a small hood for 6000.

Start small and cheap and upgrade as profits dictate. There were 2-ring gas burners on special at Thai Watsadu for 580 baht last month and these are more than adequate for starters so shop around. Take a look at Jomtien Gas on Theprassit near the Pratumnak traffic lights to get an idea of what's available and then hit some other gas shops. Further down Sukhumvit towards the Floating Market, there's a few shops that build and sell wooden chairs and tables for restaurants. There's also a good one-stop catering supplier about 1 km north of the Highway 36 (Rayong) flyover on Highway 3 headed to Sri Racaha (on right hand side). I forget the name right now, sorry.

Edited February 5, 2016 by NanLaew

[Gutenberg]

beer leo 1 bottle from makro 47 baht sells for 110 baht , 50 customers per day = profit 3650 per day and per month 109500

50 small leo selling for 50 baht, daily profit approx 1000 and per month 30000

bowl pad kapaow with an egg and rice. cost to make 15. selling at 60 baht. based on 50 plates per day 2250 and per month 67500

bowl tum yam gai , cost to make 15 sell at 70 baht ( ususally sells 80-100 baht ) 55 baht profit , per day 2750 and per month 82500

bottle nestle water cost in makro 4 baht each selling for 15 baht, profit per day based again on 50 is 550 per month 16500.

based on only 50 customers a day.......... yes optimistic but ive sat and watched these other 2 resturaunts and they are turning out 150 plus customers plus per day easy. the guy across from lk metro took over 100 customers in 2-3 hours the other day , i sat counting in the bar opposite.

hospital staff obviously will not have a beer the beer is based on the foreign guys who want a cheap place to eat on buakao. hospital across rd with staff number around probably 1000 or more and other hospital next door is opening soon so that is main reason for me to be optimistic about this.

ive seen guys on tv being put down for opening a laundry, guys abused for opening a bar so if we are all fools we would all be living in mud huts eating grass wouldnt we .

Hardcore fantasy numbers.

[gk10002000]

Nice idea in general to help out the GF, as opportunities for them are a bit rare in much of Thailand. But the internet is full of the downside and warnings about opening such a business. It is a lot of work and YOU as a foreigner can't do a darn thing. You can't push a broom, jump in and bus or wash dishes, etc. The system is setup to take your money. Others have posted other issues with the restaurant business so please listen to the negatives. It can save you a ton of grief and trouble down the road. The GF may sound nice and you are getting a long just fine, and I bet she will be very angry if you don't try and do something for her.

[NanLaew]

beer leo 1 bottle from makro 47 baht sells for 110 baht , 50 customers per day = profit 3650 per day and per month 109500

50 small leo selling for 50 baht, daily profit approx 1000 and per month 30000

bowl pad kapaow with an egg and rice. cost to make 15. selling at 60 baht. based on 50 plates per day 2250 and per month 67500

bowl tum yam gai , cost to make 15 sell at 70 baht ( ususally sells 80-100 baht ) 55 baht profit , per day 2750 and per month 82500

bottle nestle water cost in makro 4 baht each selling for 15 baht, profit per day based again on 50 is 550 per month 16500.

based on only 50 customers a day.......... yes optimistic but ive sat and watched these other 2 resturaunts and they are turning out 150 plus customers plus per day easy. the guy across from lk metro took over 100 customers in 2-3 hours the other day , i sat counting in the bar opposite.

hospital staff obviously will not have a beer the beer is based on the foreign guys who want a cheap place to eat on buakao. hospital across rd with staff number around probably 1000 or more and other hospital next door is opening soon so that is main reason for me to be optimistic about this.

ive seen guys on tv being put down for opening a laundry, guys abused for opening a bar so if we are all fools we would all be living in mud huts eating grass wouldnt we .

Hardcore fantasy numbers.

I sincerely hope that those numbers are NOT what you are spinning to your girlfriend or the single cook. Do yourself a favor and stop calling him a chef.

Even if they were close to reality, what's the rent again? And utilities?

[dirtycash]

we will start off with 2 cooks a day 9 hour shifts say 7am - 2am. or 1 cook to do 12 hr shifts then if she is busy she will open more. headaches have started allready with thai so called builders.

also we discover no water in there and gf has been onto government waterboard to sort it out asap. sourcing cookers is a nightnmare, seems buying new is best idea, numchai have double drinks fridge 23000 baht new, somchai acoss the road is selling old 2nd hand ones for 19000.

[HikeFromLA]

I am grateful for this thread as I have learned or been reminded of a few things as I read through it.

Will it be OK if I add my own situation to this thread? I think all of the above cautionary posts apply to me as well.

If I need to re-post this as a separate thread, just let me know.

BACKGROUND:

I also have no experience in hospitality other than waiting tables years ago. GF is a high energy, detail-conscious, service-conscious working-manager type, ran small restaurants in Thailand and Germany, and a beer pub in Germany that also served liquor. She typically had one trusted employee. Her capital in Germany was supplied by her ex, but she was successful for a couple of years till she got pregnant, separated, returned to Thailand to have baby.

I was once paid to do business plans for sports bars and night clubs, but those were not real annual OPERATING plans, they were prospectus-like documents, including pro forma cash flow etc, used to obtain investment and bank loans. I used real numbers based on my clients' previous experience and filled in with web research as needed.

Anyway, I am probably going to open a cafe of sorts.

GOALS:

(1) Have fiber optic or cable-based internet, and a place for me to do other work -- upstairs in a bedroom (as at present), or in a small back office adjacent to the restaurant area, and/or in the cafe itself if there is space (latter is doubtful). My current internet is unreliable and troublesome, so I will be moving regardless of whether I open a business.

(2) At least break even on the cafe operation BEFORE accounting for overhead and marketing. I.e. maybe within 6 months have the business self-sustaining and covering utilities, and be making 20000 baht spending money for her monthly. (I am assuming that I will still paying the rent out of other money I bring in.)

(3) Keep gf closeby, busy and out of my hair while I do my work so she doesnt pester me while her kid is in school, and so she has a sense of accomplishment and usefulness.

(4) Use my marketing ideas to promote the place, and maximize what can be done with the location.

(5) Use the cafe as a location to market-test some other little items the could then be re-sold elsewhere.

So as you can see my goals for the place are not unreasonable. If all I do is to achieve 1,2 and 3, that works for me.

We could do a bar instead, but that would involve me a good bit, and I do not feel I can count on the bar to replace my lost income, unless it was a hopping place, better located and better staffed and better furnished than I can afford.

MONTHLY BUDGET:

Nothing, really. That's the problem. I need to carve out the budget from what I am bringing in and spending monthly.

I can best do that, I think, by renting a shophouse, similar to the one we live in now (one flat for her, one for her and her kid), and putting her business down below. I pay 16000 bahy a month for our 2 flats now, and I believe the landlord pays 10000 baht to Thai owner for the whole building -- 3 flats and an empty unused storefront. So it is theoretically possible that I could actually reduce monthly rent.

But I could go higher if there were no other expenses. 20,000 baht would be comfortable, 30,000 baht would be a stretch. I saw a location in Nimmanhaeminda area of Chiang Mai, just last Friday, that was just changing hands, flats over indoor/outdoor cafe, would have been a ROCKIN location, chockfull of Chinese tourists, new rent was 34,000 baht, and that is the nicest (most expensive) area that I could probably find a shophouse in. So I am not TOO far off the mark in the monthly rent I am looking to pay.

UPFRONT CAPITAL & PREPAIDS:

Hard thing is upfront costs. Equipment, tables and chairs could be handled I think, but then you have deposits and key money. I have made actual offers on 2 places so far

---guesthouse/bar/restaurant on busy Falang soi in Old City Chiang Mai

---small vegetarian restaurant in Falang neighborhood in Chang Puak neighborhood north of Old Town Chiang Mai

Both places were fully equipped, so nothing to buy right away. Got on well with both owners. But both offers were politely received but not accepted.

The veggie cafe wanted a big chuck of upfront money for the existing (dead or essentially dead) business and its equipment, plus a whole years rent paid in advance.

The guesthouse/bar/restaurant wanted a whole year's rent. Still might be able to make the deal there if I go back and spend more time, as the seller and I got on well, but I am scared of the delayed maintenance on that one. Needs TLC at the least.

Ideas?

Comments?

...Sympathy?

[derator01]

Several off topic and rude posts have been removed from view. Please stick to the topic and abide by forum rules.

[blackcab]

I am grateful for this thread as I have learned or been reminded of a few things as I read through it.

Will it be OK if I add my own situation to this thread? I think all of the above cautionary posts apply to me as well.

If I need to re-post this as a separate thread, just let me know.

BACKGROUND:

I also have no experience in hospitality other than waiting tables years ago. GF is a high energy, detail-conscious, service-conscious working-manager type, ran small restaurants in Thailand and Germany, and a beer pub in Germany that also served liquor. She typically had one trusted employee. Her capital in Germany was supplied by her ex, but she was successful for a couple of years till she got pregnant, separated, returned to Thailand to have baby.

I was once paid to do business plans for sports bars and night clubs, but those were not real annual OPERATING plans, they were prospectus-like documents, including pro forma cash flow etc, used to obtain investment and bank loans. I used real numbers based on my clients' previous experience and filled in with web research as needed.

Anyway, I am probably going to open a cafe of sorts.

GOALS:

(1) Have fiber optic or cable-based internet, and a place for me to do other work -- upstairs in a bedroom (as at present), or in a small back office adjacent to the restaurant area, and/or in the cafe itself if there is space (latter is doubtful). My current internet is unreliable and troublesome, so I will be moving regardless of whether I open a business.

(2) At least break even on the cafe operation BEFORE accounting for overhead and marketing. I.e. maybe within 6 months have the business self-sustaining and covering utilities, and be making 20000 baht spending money for her monthly. (I am assuming that I will still paying the rent out of other money I bring in.)

(3) Keep gf closeby, busy and out of my hair while I do my work so she doesnt pester me while her kid is in school, and so she has a sense of accomplishment and usefulness.

(4) Use my marketing ideas to promote the place, and maximize what can be done with the location.

(5) Use the cafe as a location to market-test some other little items the could then be re-sold elsewhere.

So as you can see my goals for the place are not unreasonable. If all I do is to achieve 1,2 and 3, that works for me.

We could do a bar instead, but that would involve me a good bit, and I do not feel I can count on the bar to replace my lost income, unless it was a hopping place, better located and better staffed and better furnished than I can afford.

MONTHLY BUDGET:

Nothing, really. That's the problem. I need to carve out the budget from what I am bringing in and spending monthly.

I can best do that, I think, by renting a shophouse, similar to the one we live in now (one flat for her, one for her and her kid), and putting her business down below. I pay 16000 bahy a month for our 2 flats now, and I believe the landlord pays 10000 baht to Thai owner for the whole building -- 3 flats and an empty unused storefront. So it is theoretically possible that I could actually reduce monthly rent.

But I could go higher if there were no other expenses. 20,000 baht would be comfortable, 30,000 baht would be a stretch. I saw a location in Nimmanhaeminda area of Chiang Mai, just last Friday, that was just changing hands, flats over indoor/outdoor cafe, would have been a ROCKIN location, chockfull of Chinese tourists, new rent was 34,000 baht, and that is the nicest (most expensive) area that I could probably find a shophouse in. So I am not TOO far off the mark in the monthly rent I am looking to pay.

UPFRONT CAPITAL & PREPAIDS:

Hard thing is upfront costs. Equipment, tables and chairs could be handled I think, but then you have deposits and key money. I have made actual offers on 2 places so far

---guesthouse/bar/restaurant on busy Falang soi in Old City Chiang Mai

---small vegetarian restaurant in Falang neighborhood in Chang Puak neighborhood north of Old Town Chiang Mai

Both places were fully equipped, so nothing to buy right away. Got on well with both owners. But both offers were politely received but not accepted.

The veggie cafe wanted a big chuck of upfront money for the existing (dead or essentially dead) business and its equipment, plus a whole years rent paid in advance.

The guesthouse/bar/restaurant wanted a whole year's rent. Still might be able to make the deal there if I go back and spend more time, as the seller and I got on well, but I am scared of the delayed maintenance on that one. Needs TLC at the least.

Ideas?

Comments?

...Sympathy?

I really wouldn't do it. You will end up spending vastly more than you imagined and at this point nobody knows if it will work.

Tell your girlfriend to get a job. Pay for her childcare and give her some pocket money.

[donnybay]

Why knock someone for daring to dream? Saunders never opened his first Kentucky Fried Chicken (yes it used to be called that} till he was in his 60's, bet everyone called him crazy then.

If no one opens restaurants there would be no where to eat, good luck OP

[Nomyai]

I am grateful for this thread as I have learned or been reminded of a few things as I read through it.

Will it be OK if I add my own situation to this thread? I think all of the above cautionary posts apply to me as well.

If I need to re-post this as a separate thread, just let me know.

BACKGROUND:

I also have no experience in hospitality other than waiting tables years ago. GF is a high energy, detail-conscious, service-conscious working-manager type, ran small restaurants in Thailand and Germany, and a beer pub in Germany that also served liquor. She typically had one trusted employee. Her capital in Germany was supplied by her ex, but she was successful for a couple of years till she got pregnant, separated, returned to Thailand to have baby.

I was once paid to do business plans for sports bars and night clubs, but those were not real annual OPERATING plans, they were prospectus-like documents, including pro forma cash flow etc, used to obtain investment and bank loans. I used real numbers based on my clients' previous experience and filled in with web research as needed.

Anyway, I am probably going to open a cafe of sorts.

GOALS:

(1) Have fiber optic or cable-based internet, and a place for me to do other work -- upstairs in a bedroom (as at present), or in a small back office adjacent to the restaurant area, and/or in the cafe itself if there is space (latter is doubtful). My current internet is unreliable and troublesome, so I will be moving regardless of whether I open a business.

(2) At least break even on the cafe operation BEFORE accounting for overhead and marketing. I.e. maybe within 6 months have the business self-sustaining and covering utilities, and be making 20000 baht spending money for her monthly. (I am assuming that I will still paying the rent out of other money I bring in.)

(3) Keep gf closeby, busy and out of my hair while I do my work so she doesnt pester me while her kid is in school, and so she has a sense of accomplishment and usefulness.

(4) Use my marketing ideas to promote the place, and maximize what can be done with the location.

(5) Use the cafe as a location to market-test some other little items the could then be re-sold elsewhere.

So as you can see my goals for the place are not unreasonable. If all I do is to achieve 1,2 and 3, that works for me.

We could do a bar instead, but that would involve me a good bit, and I do not feel I can count on the bar to replace my lost income, unless it was a hopping place, better located and better staffed and better furnished than I can afford.

MONTHLY BUDGET:

Nothing, really. That's the problem. I need to carve out the budget from what I am bringing in and spending monthly.

I can best do that, I think, by renting a shophouse, similar to the one we live in now (one flat for her, one for her and her kid), and putting her business down below. I pay 16000 bahy a month for our 2 flats now, and I believe the landlord pays 10000 baht to Thai owner for the whole building -- 3 flats and an empty unused storefront. So it is theoretically possible that I could actually reduce monthly rent.

But I could go higher if there were no other expenses. 20,000 baht would be comfortable, 30,000 baht would be a stretch. I saw a location in Nimmanhaeminda area of Chiang Mai, just last Friday, that was just changing hands, flats over indoor/outdoor cafe, would have been a ROCKIN location, chockfull of Chinese tourists, new rent was 34,000 baht, and that is the nicest (most expensive) area that I could probably find a shophouse in. So I am not TOO far off the mark in the monthly rent I am looking to pay.

UPFRONT CAPITAL & PREPAIDS:

Hard thing is upfront costs. Equipment, tables and chairs could be handled I think, but then you have deposits and key money. I have made actual offers on 2 places so far

---guesthouse/bar/restaurant on busy Falang soi in Old City Chiang Mai

---small vegetarian restaurant in Falang neighborhood in Chang Puak neighborhood north of Old Town Chiang Mai

Both places were fully equipped, so nothing to buy right away. Got on well with both owners. But both offers were politely received but not accepted.

The veggie cafe wanted a big chuck of upfront money for the existing (dead or essentially dead) business and its equipment, plus a whole years rent paid in advance.

The guesthouse/bar/restaurant wanted a whole year's rent. Still might be able to make the deal there if I go back and spend more time, as the seller and I got on well, but I am scared of the delayed maintenance on that one. Needs TLC at the least.

Ideas?

Comments?

...Sympathy?

This is a great post telling you why NOT to open business for other than business purposes aka girlfriend sillyness.

[Lukecan]

I rationally analyzed your situation and made a list of pros and cons..

Pros:

The place you want to lease has high foot traffic, there will not be a huge flunctuation between high and low season since its situated next to a hospital.

Cons:

No prior experience in hospitality industry

You will pay for everything.

Girlfriends family will be involved

You dont even know where to hire a chef from and buy 2nd hand equipment.

No knowledge of business structure in Thailand.

No knowledge of thai.

You are probably a troll, or if you are real you probably will not even take my advice. But nonetheless this is a recipe for disaster my friend.

I am not anti business like most people here, with a good business plan everything is doable. But you have no experience, and you WILL GET A CASHIER FROM PATTAYA TO RUN THE BUSINESS.

You are probably emotionally attached to the girl and you can not think rationally. Successful businessman never have their bitc hes involved in day to day running of their business.

Instead make a video in youtube and burn 2 million baht in front of the camera, you will instantly become famous around the world and achieve celebrity status in Thailand. Then you will have plenty of girlfriends to pick from. My 2c.

Edited February 18, 2016 by Lukecan

[Gutenberg]

Cons:

You will pay for everything.

Girlfriends family will be involved

For me, these two things are definitely a pro.

I would have nightmares if my wife would pay anything. Conservative life matters.

Regarding family it seems that our western culture is eliminating the family ties in all ways. With a Thai family, if you married the right girl, you will get strong alliances with all close relatives. Ok, true, if you married the smoking hot bar girl with drug addiction and a broken family, it might be bad to get family involved.

Check it out for yourself if they want money for booze or sell their own land to invest in your business.

[vukovar77]

Cons:

You will pay for everything.

Girlfriends family will be involved

For me, these two things are definitely a pro.

I would have nightmares if my wife would pay anything. Conservative life matters.

Regarding family it seems that our western culture is eliminating the family ties in all ways. With a Thai family, if you married the right girl, you will get strong alliances with all close relatives. Ok, true, if you married the smoking hot bar girl with drug addiction and a broken family, it might be bad to get family involved.

Check it out for yourself if they want money for booze or sell their own land to invest in your business.

It is your money and you can afford to lose it.

Any advice about this matter anymore is just loosing the time and energy!!!

After failure you will start again and be more wise.We learn on our mistakes,at least most of us!!!

I live here some time and speak Thai fluently ,eat almost only Thai food and hang up almost only with Thais! My wife speak only Thai language,but I will never do same as you.You can not "win" in business you can not control!!! So pity to you and hope to be clever next time,cos. in this game you can only lose.

[Nomyai]

I rationally analyzed your situation and made a list of pros and cons..

Pros:

The place you want to lease has high foot traffic, there will not be a huge flunctuation between high and low season since its situated next to a hospital.

Cons:

No prior experience in hospitality industry

You will pay for everything.

Girlfriends family will be involved

You dont even know where to hire a chef from and buy 2nd hand equipment.

No knowledge of business structure in Thailand.

No knowledge of thai.

You are probably a troll, or if you are real you probably will not even take my advice. But nonetheless this is a recipe for disaster my friend.

I am not anti business like most people here, with a good business plan everything is doable. But you have no experience, and you WILL GET A CASHIER FROM PATTAYA TO RUN THE BUSINESS.

You are probably emotionally attached to the girl and you can not think rationally. Successful businessman never have their bitc hes involved in day to day running of their business.

Instead make a video in youtube and burn 2 million baht in front of the camera, you will instantly become famous around the world and achieve celebrity status in Thailand. Then you will have plenty of girlfriends to pick from. My 2c.

Im not anti-business. Im anti business when sole purpose is business involves a thai girl(you know the kind)........................lol.

[IsaanFam]

How did it end?