Elephant kills Scottish tourist on Koh Samui

[Tony125]

*** If properly trained I see no problem riding even a bull elephant if not in Musth. I actually did not ride on his back in sedan chair but on his neck/head.and mahut who raised the elephant taught me how to change directions by calling the elephants name and putting pressure with my foot on the back of his neck/ears. An illfitted sedan chair that rubs or digs into his skin could aggravate one. If anyone thinks a 4 ton plus packaderm feels the weight of 185 lb man and its to much of burden to carry your crazy. They can handle cold bettter than heat so can be overtired from too many rides in hot weather. My mahut had a stick but no iron bar with hook usually just taped elephant or pointed which way he wanted him to go. We saw a mahut once start hitting an elephant in the head with the iron bar and I and other tourists yelled at him to stop. It then ate some brush and we moved on.

In domesticated elephants[edit]

An elephant on musth trying to break its chain

A musth elephant, wild or domesticated, is extremely dangerous to both humans and other elephants. In zoos, bull elephants in musth have killed numerous keepers when a normally friendly animal became uncontrollably enraged; in contrast to normal dominance behavior, bulls in musth will even attack and kill members of their own family, including their own calves. Zoos keeping adult male elephants need extremely strong, purpose-built enclosures to isolate males during their musth, which greatly complicates the expense of attempting to breed elephants in zoos; most zoos that keep a single elephant or a small herd typically have only females for this reason.

In India, domesticated elephants in musth are traditionally tied to a strong tree, or two strong trees, and denied food and water, or put on a starvation diet, for several days, after which the musth passes. Mahouts are often able to greatly shorten the duration of their elephants' musth, typically to five to eight days; xylazine (sedative) is also used.

Since denial of food and water is considered animal cruelty in most Western nations, the approved method in these countries is to strictly isolate the elephant in a highly fortified secure pen for a period ranging from 1 to 2 months until the elephant emerges from musth on its own. Medication against swelling and pain, as well as tranquilizers, are often mixed into the elephant's food. During this 1–2 month period the elephant cannot be trained, allowed outside or permitted to see other elephants, and must be fed, watered and cleaned by remote methods; it will surely attack any approaching keeper. Some^[which?] Indian mahouts decry this method as more cruel than simply starving/dehydrating the animal for a week, upon which it recovers and can be safely reunited with the herd.

Interaction with humans[edit]

Elephants are used for safari tourism throughout Asia

Mahouts washing an elephant,Thrissur, Kerala

Sri Lankan elephants at Esala Perahera

At this elephant training camp,captive elephants are taught to handle logs.

At most seasons of the year, Asian elephants are timid and much more ready to flee from a foe than to attack. However, solitary rogues are frequently an exception to this rule, and sometimes make unprovoked attacks on passers-by. Rogue elephants sometimes take up a position near a road, making it impassable to travelers. Females with calves are at all times dangerous to approach. When an Asian elephant makes a charge, it tightly curls up its trunk and attacks by trampling its victim with feet or knees, or, if a male, by pinning it to the ground with its tusks. During musth, bulls are highly dangerous, not only to human beings, but also to other animals. At the first indications, trained elephants are secured tightly to prevent any mishaps. There is also one case of a rogue elephant having actually consumed a human, an attack merited to be extremely unnatural. The elephant, a rogue female, had previously lost her calf to an accident involving farmers. This grievous loss led the elephant to target humans first as a threat, and then as a food source as her mental state deteriorated until she was finally killed and later dissected, revealing through DNA analysis that she had indeed consumed human flesh. The incident was revealed to the general public in several articles and in the Animal Planet documentary "World's Deadliest Towns: Man-Eating Elephant

[HerbalEd]

I'll never, ever ride an elephant again.

About 10 years ago I rode atop an elephant in a wildlife preserve in Nepal. Once we got underway, it soon became obvious that the animal did not at all like the situation, and the cruel way he was abused by the mahout made me feel awful and guilty.

[FredNL]

I really don't care what happened. IMO just leave elephants alone and let them live in their natural habitat. They're not pets.

[Traveller45]

And yet elephants HAVE been ridden for thousands of years

...perhaps a good idea not to ride a BULL ELEPHANT at any rate.

[lee b]

I can't understand why people would want to ride an elephant. It just seems cruel what they do to it. There have been a good few cases now of elephants going mad. Why even take the risk?

[rapom]

Concerning "Kipling: you are not quite right. (it's never too late to learn)

Real Mahouts (the name comes from Hindi) you can find still in India. And - they spend their whole life with their elephants - even NOWADAYS. The reason for this is that most of the elephants we saw belong to the government. And the government can pay for their soldiers (!). They treat "their" elephants like "friends" and care for them as friends. Some stay even at night with them. But this is today unusual though.

So Kiplings picture is still alive. Somehow. Somewhere. (Attached a photo)

I always assumed elephants would be a common sight in India, but there are only a few places in the country where you can really see them (and ride them), and Jaipur is one of them.

I just don't think you understand the significance of my use of the name Kipling. He was an imperialist who wrote extensively about India in "glowing" and poetic terms - one of things he did was glorify some of the humbler working people.

In reality this image is distorted - and it appears you accept this distortion. Being a mahout used to be a common job in India - NOWADYS irit is not. Furthermore the relationship depicted by writers like Kipling is not necessarily true.

The reality is that being a mahout involved - and still involves - a mixture of folklore, superstition and a little bit of practicality.....but little or no science....or appreciation of the natural behaviour of an elephant.

It has always involved breaking in practices that are frankly barbaric and cruel beyond belief it also has a way of dealing with musth that seems unbelievably cruel - they starve and deliberately dehydrate the animals - this has been shown to shorten the musth, but causes hu=ge distress to the animal.

Being a "mahout" - even a traditional long-term one - doesn't guarantee or imply that the elephant is being treated well - in fact it still involves inflicting pain every day as a form of dominance and discipline....in India all in the name of ceremony.

..and while you're at it check out the number f elephants Hannibal used - it will put matters in perspective

Man, your quotes makes me laugh. You are very smart. You answer just because you want to be RIGHT even you are not. You can't accept if anybody got a different point of view or a different opinion.

I don't know you but I suppose you had a miserable life or still have it now.

The only satisfaction you will have is writing smart quotes. I reckon you live alone, do you? No friends?

But anyway, enjoy your day with a healthy glass of mineral water.

Sawade, you cannot win this pissing contest with him. He had the same battle with "folkguitar" several months ago when an elephant killed a mahout. It will never be the elephants, tiger or any other animals fault. He places the welfare of an animal above the death of another man. If he didn't he would have ceased his ranting several posts ago. The original story was about the death of a man. Posters should have sympathy for this man's untimely death. his daughter and surviving family. Any other topic discussion is disgraceful.

[sn1per]

You've got to get fed up with being hit with one of these all day

The mahout hit the elephant several times with a hook to calm it down/discipline it!

It then went berserk.

[cumgranosalum]

Concerning "Kipling: you are not quite right. (it's never too late to learn)

Real Mahouts (the name comes from Hindi) you can find still in India. And - they spend their whole life with their elephants - even NOWADAYS. The reason for this is that most of the elephants we saw belong to the government. And the government can pay for their soldiers (!). They treat "their" elephants like "friends" and care for them as friends. Some stay even at night with them. But this is today unusual though.

So Kiplings picture is still alive. Somehow. Somewhere. (Attached a photo)

I always assumed elephants would be a common sight in India, but there are only a few places in the country where you can really see them (and ride them), and Jaipur is one of them.

I just don't think you understand the significance of my use of the name Kipling. He was an imperialist who wrote extensively about India in "glowing" and poetic terms - one of things he did was glorify some of the humbler working people.

In reality this image is distorted - and it appears you accept this distortion. Being a mahout used to be a common job in India - NOWADYS irit is not. Furthermore the relationship depicted by writers like Kipling is not necessarily true.

The reality is that being a mahout involved - and still involves - a mixture of folklore, superstition and a little bit of practicality.....but little or no science....or appreciation of the natural behaviour of an elephant.

It has always involved breaking in practices that are frankly barbaric and cruel beyond belief it also has a way of dealing with musth that seems unbelievably cruel - they starve and deliberately dehydrate the animals - this has been shown to shorten the musth, but causes hu=ge distress to the animal.

Being a "mahout" - even a traditional long-term one - doesn't guarantee or imply that the elephant is being treated well - in fact it still involves inflicting pain every day as a form of dominance and discipline....in India all in the name of ceremony.

..and while you're at it check out the number f elephants Hannibal used - it will put matters in perspective

Man, your quotes makes me laugh. You are very smart. You answer just because you want to be RIGHT even you are not. You can't accept if anybody got a different point of view or a different opinion.

I don't know you but I suppose you had a miserable life or still have it now.

The only satisfaction you will have is writing smart quotes. I reckon you live alone, do you? No friends?

But anyway, enjoy your day with a healthy glass of mineral water.

Sawade, you cannot win this pissing contest with him. He had the same battle with "folkguitar" several months ago when an elephant killed a mahout. It will never be the elephants, tiger or any other animals fault. He places the welfare of an animal above the death of another man. If he didn't he would have ceased his ranting several posts ago. The original story was about the death of a man. Posters should have sympathy for this man's untimely death. his daughter and surviving family. Any other topic discussion is disgraceful.

If you are going to make allegations about me you might just have the decency to back it up with some solid information.

It's not my fault if people post without understanding or having any knowledge about the topic....they seem to think that cut and paste from Google is a substitute for really understanding of a subject.

Search and research are not the same.......but that is obvious from some of the half-baked ideas expressed on this thread. The problem is that some people just don't know how LITTLE they know.

[sawadee1947]

Concerning "Kipling: you are not quite right. (it's never too late to learn)

Real Mahouts (the name comes from Hindi) you can find still in India. And - they spend their whole life with their elephants - even NOWADAYS. The reason for this is that most of the elephants we saw belong to the government. And the government can pay for their soldiers (!). They treat "their" elephants like "friends" and care for them as friends. Some stay even at night with them. But this is today unusual though.

So Kiplings picture is still alive. Somehow. Somewhere. (Attached a photo)

I always assumed elephants would be a common sight in India, but there are only a few places in the country where you can really see them (and ride them), and Jaipur is one of them.

I just don't think you understand the significance of my use of the name Kipling. He was an imperialist who wrote extensively about India in "glowing" and poetic terms - one of things he did was glorify some of the humbler working people.

In reality this image is distorted - and it appears you accept this distortion. Being a mahout used to be a common job in India - NOWADYS irit is not. Furthermore the relationship depicted by writers like Kipling is not necessarily true.

The reality is that being a mahout involved - and still involves - a mixture of folklore, superstition and a little bit of practicality.....but little or no science....or appreciation of the natural behaviour of an elephant.

It has always involved breaking in practices that are frankly barbaric and cruel beyond belief it also has a way of dealing with musth that seems unbelievably cruel - they starve and deliberately dehydrate the animals - this has been shown to shorten the musth, but causes hu=ge distress to the animal.

Being a "mahout" - even a traditional long-term one - doesn't guarantee or imply that the elephant is being treated well - in fact it still involves inflicting pain every day as a form of dominance and discipline....in India all in the name of ceremony.

..and while you're at it check out the number f elephants Hannibal used - it will put matters in perspective

Man, your quotes makes me laugh. You are very smart. You answer just because you want to be RIGHT even you are not. You can't accept if anybody got a different point of view or a different opinion.

I don't know you but I suppose you had a miserable life or still have it now.

The only satisfaction you will have is writing smart quotes. I reckon you live alone, do you? No friends?

But anyway, enjoy your day with a healthy glass of mineral water.

i think that post says more about you than me........

If you have a problem with anything ipost please, feel free to put forward a coherent argument against - an ad hominem attack just doesn't cut the mustard.....

poor man, I pity you. I try to comfort you and you feel an attack....You are really on the wrong track. Everywhere enemies? Most of us are here to enjoy life but you are the exception. What a life....(I bet you will have the last word...come on...)

[arithai12]

Very sad.

Elephants on Samui? Really? When would an island have an elephant population? Was there logging there?I suspect they are just shipped over for the simple aim of exploitation in pursuit the tourist dollar.

Where have these elephants come from?

It's about time that Thailand faced up to its abuses of animal rights.

it is about time that tourists educated themselves on animal abuse before coming to destinations like Thailand.

Rule of thumb -= if you can ride it, it's being exploited.

I do not know whether the elephants used for tourists on Samui are "imported" or not, but regarding your question "When would an island have an elephant population?" I attach a picture I took on Samui in 1997, showing local people using elephants for work - not for tourists.

I agree that the elephant riding business is mostly a shame. But as you say, if tourists avoided it, there would be no business (same as with many other animal attractions).

RIP to the guy, what a horrible death in front of his daughter.

[phycokiller]

I really don't care what happened. IMO just leave elephants alone and let them live in their natural habitat. They're not pets.

not pets, slaves, if they were treated better they might be a little happier

[phycokiller]

Very sad.

Elephants on Samui? Really? When would an island have an elephant population? Was there logging there?I suspect they are just shipped over for the simple aim of exploitation in pursuit the tourist dollar.

Where have these elephants come from?

It's about time that Thailand faced up to its abuses of animal rights.

it is about time that tourists educated themselves on animal abuse before coming to destinations like Thailand.

Rule of thumb -= if you can ride it, it's being exploited.

elephants do live on islands, there was likely elephants there before humans. they are good swimmers

[sawadee1947]

Concerning "Kipling: you are not quite right. (it's never too late to learn)

Real Mahouts (the name comes from Hindi) you can find still in India. And - they spend their whole life with their elephants - even NOWADAYS. The reason for this is that most of the elephants we saw belong to the government. And the government can pay for their soldiers (!). They treat "their" elephants like "friends" and care for them as friends. Some stay even at night with them. But this is today unusual though.

So Kiplings picture is still alive. Somehow. Somewhere. (Attached a photo)

I always assumed elephants would be a common sight in India, but there are only a few places in the country where you can really see them (and ride them), and Jaipur is one of them.

I just don't think you understand the significance of my use of the name Kipling. He was an imperialist who wrote extensively about India in "glowing" and poetic terms - one of things he did was glorify some of the humbler working people.

In reality this image is distorted - and it appears you accept this distortion. Being a mahout used to be a common job in India - NOWADYS irit is not. Furthermore the relationship depicted by writers like Kipling is not necessarily true.

The reality is that being a mahout involved - and still involves - a mixture of folklore, superstition and a little bit of practicality.....but little or no science....or appreciation of the natural behaviour of an elephant.

It has always involved breaking in practices that are frankly barbaric and cruel beyond belief it also has a way of dealing with musth that seems unbelievably cruel - they starve and deliberately dehydrate the animals - this has been shown to shorten the musth, but causes hu=ge distress to the animal.

Being a "mahout" - even a traditional long-term one - doesn't guarantee or imply that the elephant is being treated well - in fact it still involves inflicting pain every day as a form of dominance and discipline....in India all in the name of ceremony.

..and while you're at it check out the number f elephants Hannibal used - it will put matters in perspective

Man, your quotes makes me laugh. You are very smart. You answer just because you want to be RIGHT even you are not. You can't accept if anybody got a different point of view or a different opinion.

I don't know you but I suppose you had a miserable life or still have it now.

The only satisfaction you will have is writing smart quotes. I reckon you live alone, do you? No friends?

But anyway, enjoy your day with a healthy glass of mineral water.

Sawade, you cannot win this pissing contest with him. He had the same battle with "folkguitar" several months ago when an elephant killed a mahout. It will never be the elephants, tiger or any other animals fault. He places the welfare of an animal above the death of another man. If he didn't he would have ceased his ranting several posts ago. The original story was about the death of a man. Posters should have sympathy for this man's untimely death. his daughter and surviving family. Any other topic discussion is disgraceful.

Thank you for this quote. And I thought I'm the only one fighting with him. But on the other hand it's impossible to fight with "know-it-alls" . Prigs you find everywhere. But again: Thanks a lot.

[Familyonthemove]

Never tease elephants. What a bad way to go.

Only one report - later amended - said the passenger had been teasing the elephant. His daughter said he had not been teasing the elephant. As the two passengers were on the back of the elephant at the time of the incident I think it very unlikely they could physically try to feed the elephant.

More likely, in my view, is that a scared employee or employer tried to blame the victim for their own poor management and animal cruelty.

[MockingJay]

I thought that operators weren't allowed to use elephant bulls anymore??? Thailand...

[soalbundy]

Very sad.

Elephants on Samui? Really? When would an island have an elephant population? Was there logging there?I suspect they are just shipped over for the simple aim of exploitation in pursuit the tourist dollar.

Where have these elephants come from?

It's about time that Thailand faced up to its abuses of animal rights.

it is about time that tourists educated themselves on animal abuse before coming to destinations like Thailand.

Rule of thumb -= if you can ride it, it's being exploited.

elephants do live on islands, there was likely elephants there before humans. they are good swimmers

If they were good swimmers they would be leaving the island and be off looking for the social

[cumgranosalum]

This knee jerk reactions are understandable, but bear in minds that those beasts are wild that have

been tamed to work with humans, and of the hundreds of thousands of elephant's rides by locals,

mahouts and tourists, the odd one killed killed or injured, that's well within the acceptable margins of risks....

Just think of the billions those animals bring to this country in tourist's revenues, feeding a whole industry

of Thai people connected to working with the elephants.....

You might ask yourself where those elephants come from and how they are tamed.

You might also consider if there are other ways of making money out of elephants.

[cumgranosalum]

Never tease elephants. What a bad way to go.

Only one report - later amended - said the passenger had been teasing the elephant. His daughter said he had not been teasing the elephant. As the two passengers were on the back of the elephant at the time of the incident I think it very unlikely they could physically try to feed the elephant.

More likely, in my view, is that a scared employee or employer tried to blame the victim for their own poor management and animal cruelty.

I would think it far more likely the animal was tired or in pain.

[Suetape]

Shame on the authorities. No one expects to return from their vacation in a coffin. RIP...

[MaeJoMTB]

As the two passengers were on the back of the elephant at the time of the incident I think it very unlikely they could physically try to feed the elephant.

You would be wrong.

Sat on the back of an elephant and fed it bananas often.

You get covered in elephant snot though.

That trunk can reach everywhere.

[cumgranosalum]

Never tease elephants. What a bad way to go.

Only one report - later amended - said the passenger had been teasing the elephant. His daughter said he had not been teasing the elephant. As the two passengers were on the back of the elephant at the time of the incident I think it very unlikely they could physically try to feed the elephant.

More likely, in my view, is that a scared employee or employer tried to blame the victim for their own poor management and animal cruelty.

[Roomuck]

Mmm, teasing an elephant with food. Think I will blame this one on "farangness".

[roo860]

Concerning "Kipling: you are not quite right. (it's never too late to learn)

Real Mahouts (the name comes from Hindi) you can find still in India. And - they spend their whole life with their elephants - even NOWADAYS. The reason for this is that most of the elephants we saw belong to the government. And the government can pay for their soldiers (!). They treat "their" elephants like "friends" and care for them as friends. Some stay even at night with them. But this is today unusual though.

So Kiplings picture is still alive. Somehow. Somewhere. (Attached a photo)

I always assumed elephants would be a common sight in India, but there are only a few places in the country where you can really see them (and ride them), and Jaipur is one of them.

I just don't think you understand the significance of my use of the name Kipling. He was an imperialist who wrote extensively about India in "glowing" and poetic terms - one of things he did was glorify some of the humbler working people.

In reality this image is distorted - and it appears you accept this distortion. Being a mahout used to be a common job in India - NOWADYS irit is not. Furthermore the relationship depicted by writers like Kipling is not necessarily true.

The reality is that being a mahout involved - and still involves - a mixture of folklore, superstition and a little bit of practicality.....but little or no science....or appreciation of the natural behaviour of an elephant.

It has always involved breaking in practices that are frankly barbaric and cruel beyond belief it also has a way of dealing with musth that seems unbelievably cruel - they starve and deliberately dehydrate the animals - this has been shown to shorten the musth, but causes hu=ge distress to the animal.

Being a "mahout" - even a traditional long-term one - doesn't guarantee or imply that the elephant is being treated well - in fact it still involves inflicting pain every day as a form of dominance and discipline....in India all in the name of ceremony.

..and while you're at it check out the number f elephants Hannibal used - it will put matters in perspective

Man, your quotes makes me laugh. You are very smart. You answer just because you want to be RIGHT even you are not. You can't accept if anybody got a different point of view or a different opinion.

I don't know you but I suppose you had a miserable life or still have it now.

The only satisfaction you will have is writing smart quotes. I reckon you live alone, do you? No friends?

But anyway, enjoy your day with a healthy glass of mineral water.

Sawade, you cannot win this pissing contest with him. He had the same battle with "folkguitar" several months ago when an elephant killed a mahout. It will never be the elephants, tiger or any other animals fault. He places the welfare of an animal above the death of another man. If he didn't he would have ceased his ranting several posts ago. The original story was about the death of a man. Posters should have sympathy for this man's untimely death. his daughter and surviving family. Any other topic discussion is disgraceful.

Thank you for this quote. And I thought I'm the only one fighting with him. But on the other hand it's impossible to fight with "know-it-alls" . Prigs you find everywhere. But again: Thanks a lot.

He was an expert on road markings as well.

[Familyonthemove]

Concerning "Kipling: you are not quite right. (it's never too late to learn)

Real Mahouts (the name comes from Hindi) you can find still in India. And - they spend their whole life with their elephants - even NOWADAYS. The reason for this is that most of the elephants we saw belong to the government. And the government can pay for their soldiers (!). They treat "their" elephants like "friends" and care for them as friends. Some stay even at night with them. But this is today unusual though.

So Kiplings picture is still alive. Somehow. Somewhere. (Attached a photo)

I always assumed elephants would be a common sight in India, but there are only a few places in the country where you can really see them (and ride them), and Jaipur is one of them.

I just don't think you understand the significance of my use of the name Kipling. He was an imperialist who wrote extensively about India in "glowing" and poetic terms - one of things he did was glorify some of the humbler working people.

In reality this image is distorted - and it appears you accept this distortion. Being a mahout used to be a common job in India - NOWADYS irit is not. Furthermore the relationship depicted by writers like Kipling is not necessarily true.

The reality is that being a mahout involved - and still involves - a mixture of folklore, superstition and a little bit of practicality.....but little or no science....or appreciation of the natural behaviour of an elephant.

It has always involved breaking in practices that are frankly barbaric and cruel beyond belief it also has a way of dealing with musth that seems unbelievably cruel - they starve and deliberately dehydrate the animals - this has been shown to shorten the musth, but causes hu=ge distress to the animal.

Being a "mahout" - even a traditional long-term one - doesn't guarantee or imply that the elephant is being treated well - in fact it still involves inflicting pain every day as a form of dominance and discipline....in India all in the name of ceremony.

..and while you're at it check out the number f elephants Hannibal used - it will put matters in perspective

Man, your quotes makes me laugh. You are very smart. You answer just because you want to be RIGHT even you are not. You can't accept if anybody got a different point of view or a different opinion.

I don't know you but I suppose you had a miserable life or still have it now.

The only satisfaction you will have is writing smart quotes. I reckon you live alone, do you? No friends?

But anyway, enjoy your day with a healthy glass of mineral water.

Sawade, you cannot win this pissing contest with him. He had the same battle with "folkguitar" several months ago when an elephant killed a mahout. It will never be the elephants, tiger or any other animals fault. He places the welfare of an animal above the death of another man. If he didn't he would have ceased his ranting several posts ago. The original story was about the death of a man. Posters should have sympathy for this man's untimely death. his daughter and surviving family. Any other topic discussion is disgraceful.

Thank you for this quote. And I thought I'm the only one fighting with him. But on the other hand it's impossible to fight with "know-it-alls" . Prigs you find everywhere. But again: Thanks a lot.

He was an expert on road markings as well.

The situation with elephants in India can be, in my experience, worse than in Thailand. They are 'rented' from their 'owners' by beggars on a commission basis and used for begging. I used to get stuck in the traffic jams they created before the Mumbai Police banned them from the cities.

I think they are also banned from Bangkok too?

[ffaarraanngg]

Mmm, teasing an elephant with food. Think I will blame this one on "farangness".

Being unable to read what the daughter said happened, i will blame this on you being not very bright.

[connda]

Obviously not enough ketamine administered before letting it out to 'socialize' with the tourists who think that animals are just humans in different bodies.

Zoos. <head shake>

[cumgranosalum]

Concerning "Kipling: you are not quite right. (it's never too late to learn)

Real Mahouts (the name comes from Hindi) you can find still in India. And - they spend their whole life with their elephants - even NOWADAYS. The reason for this is that most of the elephants we saw belong to the government. And the government can pay for their soldiers (!). They treat "their" elephants like "friends" and care for them as friends. Some stay even at night with them. But this is today unusual though.

So Kiplings picture is still alive. Somehow. Somewhere. (Attached a photo)

I always assumed elephants would be a common sight in India, but there are only a few places in the country where you can really see them (and ride them), and Jaipur is one of them.

I just don't think you understand the significance of my use of the name Kipling. He was an imperialist who wrote extensively about India in "glowing" and poetic terms - one of things he did was glorify some of the humbler working people.

In reality this image is distorted - and it appears you accept this distortion. Being a mahout used to be a common job in India - NOWADYS irit is not. Furthermore the relationship depicted by writers like Kipling is not necessarily true.

The reality is that being a mahout involved - and still involves - a mixture of folklore, superstition and a little bit of practicality.....but little or no science....or appreciation of the natural behaviour of an elephant.

It has always involved breaking in practices that are frankly barbaric and cruel beyond belief it also has a way of dealing with musth that seems unbelievably cruel - they starve and deliberately dehydrate the animals - this has been shown to shorten the musth, but causes hu=ge distress to the animal.

Being a "mahout" - even a traditional long-term one - doesn't guarantee or imply that the elephant is being treated well - in fact it still involves inflicting pain every day as a form of dominance and discipline....in India all in the name of ceremony.

..and while you're at it check out the number f elephants Hannibal used - it will put matters in perspective

Man, your quotes makes me laugh. You are very smart. You answer just because you want to be RIGHT even you are not. You can't accept if anybody got a different point of view or a different opinion.

I don't know you but I suppose you had a miserable life or still have it now.

The only satisfaction you will have is writing smart quotes. I reckon you live alone, do you? No friends?

But anyway, enjoy your day with a healthy glass of mineral water.

Sawade, you cannot win this pissing contest with him. He had the same battle with "folkguitar" several months ago when an elephant killed a mahout. It will never be the elephants, tiger or any other animals fault. He places the welfare of an animal above the death of another man. If he didn't he would have ceased his ranting several posts ago. The original story was about the death of a man. Posters should have sympathy for this man's untimely death. his daughter and surviving family. Any other topic discussion is disgraceful.

Thank you for this quote. And I thought I'm the only one fighting with him. But on the other hand it's impossible to fight with "know-it-alls" . Prigs you find everywhere. But again: Thanks a lot.

He was an expert on road markings as well.

The situation with elephants in India can be, in my experience, worse than in Thailand. They are 'rented' from their 'owners' by beggars on a commission basis and used for begging. I used to get stuck in the traffic jams they created before the Mumbai Police banned them from the cities.

I think they are also banned from Bangkok too?

That is the basic arrangement in Thailand...especially with any animal you see on the streets.

[connda]

An eye witness report suggests the man, who had a prosthetic leg, had been teasing the elephant with a banana that he offered to the beast before taking it back.

Farang man bad. Tease elephant with banana. Elephant mad so kill man. Farang stupid. Stupid farang not to tease elephant. Maybe elephant musth. Stupid farang should know better. Stupid farang fault he die.

My input: Close all zoos. End of story.

[cumgranosalum]

If anyone thinks anything I've posted is incorrect feel free to put your argument. If you are wrong however it needs to be pointed out.

One of the biggest hinderences to stopping animal abuse is the lack of knowledge of foreigners who then unwittingly end up funding or supporting these despicable activities.

[connda]

Elephant Kills Scottish Tourist on Koh Samui

KOH SAMUI – A Scottish man has been killed and a mahout seriously injured by an elephant gone berserk during a trekking tour on Koh Samui.

The 36-year-old Scottish tourist was riding the male elephant with his 16-year-old daughter in a forested area of tambon Bor Phud this afternoon when, witnesses told police, Pamang, a Myanmar mahout, climbed down from 13-year-old elephant to take photos with the victim and his daughter.

The elephant struck Pamang with his trunk and stabbed him in the torso with a tusk.

The elephant then unseated the Scotsman and his daughter, then stomped the Scotsman and gored him in the chest with a tusk, killing him instantly. The bull elephant then ran into the forest.

Full story: http://www.chiangraitimes.com/elephant-kills-scottish-tourist-on-koh-samui.html

-- Chiang Rai Times 2016-02-02

Do these bozos check to see if their elephants are entering 'musth' before releasing them into the tourist population for rides? Just wondering. Hopefully, the zoo is sued into bankruptcy.

I no want play with monkey.

I no want play with elephant.

I no want play with snake.

I no want play with (alpha predator) tiger.

You want to take a ride on Thai wildlife? Try riding on a nice docile, domesticated buffalo.