Illegal land occupation

[webfact]

Putin is fanning Syrian civil war, Britain's Hammond says
BY GUY FAULCONBRIDGE
ZAATARI, JORDAN

LONDON: -- Russian President Vladimir Putin is undermining international efforts to end the Syrian civil war by bombing opponents of Islamic State in an attempt to bolster Bashar al-Assad, British Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond said on Monday.

In a clear sign of frustration with the Kremlin, Hammond scolded Putin for paying lip service to a political process aimed at ending the civil war while also bombing opponents of Assad who the West hopes could shape Syria once Assad is gone.

When Russia began air strikes in September, Putin tilted the war in President Assad's favor, after major setbacks earlier in 2015 brought rebel groups close to the coastal heartland of his Alawite sect.

Full story: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-britain-idUSKCN0VA3RQ


-- Reuters 2016-02-02

[alant]

How is this so, Putin supports Assad, IS is against Assad meanwhile the UK support the rebels IS are rebels

[craigt3365]

How is this so, Putin supports Assad, IS is against Assad meanwhile the UK support the rebels IS are rebels

It's extremely complicated. Too many players in Syria. Russia, Iran, Turkey, Saudia Arabia. The main reason Putin said he was going into Syria was to fight IS. Ends up, he's fighting the rebels that are against Assad who are also against IS. Putin is now admitting he's really supporting Assad, and rumors are he's not happy with Assad. But who's going to replace him? Tough situation....

[arjunadawn]

Putin fanning Syrian civil war is among the most ridiculous comments lately. Perhaps the observation might have value if from a party (US UK et al) who did not start the civil war.

[schondie]

This comes from the same government that gave 6 million pounds plus weaponry to "moderate" opposition groups. Talk about blaming Putin for something they have done themselves.

What right did the US & UK governments have to interfere in Syria anyway? The messes left behind in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya after bringing freedom and democracy should have taught them a lesson but it seems not.

[craigt3365]

Putin fanning Syrian civil war is among the most ridiculous comments lately. Perhaps the observation might have value if from a party (US UK et al) who did not start the civil war.

So you're saying the US and the UK started the Syrian civil war? Links please. But not from RT.

[2alex4alex]

Putin fanning Syrian civil war is among the most ridiculous comments lately. Perhaps the observation might have value if from a party (US UK et al) who did not start the civil war.

So you're saying the US and the UK started the Syrian civil war? Links please. But not from RT.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/justin-huggler/syria-civil-war_b_4872170.html

[khunken]

How is this so, Putin supports Assad, IS is against Assad meanwhile the UK support the rebels IS are rebels

It's extremely complicated. Too many players in Syria. Russia, Iran, Turkey, Saudia Arabia. The main reason Putin said he was going into Syria was to fight IS. Ends up, he's fighting the rebels that are against Assad who are also against IS. Putin is now admitting he's really supporting Assad, and rumors are he's not happy with Assad. But who's going to replace him? Tough situation....

Not true about the reason Russia went into Syria. Russia made it clear that it was to support the current Syrian government against ALL rebel groups including the IS and the so-called 'good' rebels, many of who are just as undemocratic and fascist as IS & Al-Nusra.

It is a pity that despite your moderate stance you continue to post anti-Russian propaganda & sometimes lies.

Hypocrite Hammond is from a country that has fanned the flames of Islamic terrorist groups in a number of ME countries including Syria.

[craigt3365]

Putin fanning Syrian civil war is among the most ridiculous comments lately. Perhaps the observation might have value if from a party (US UK et al) who did not start the civil war.

So you're saying the US and the UK started the Syrian civil war? Links please. But not from RT.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/justin-huggler/syria-civil-war_b_4872170.html

That's a blog post. I don't give it much credibility. If you want to assign blame, you've got to go back to when the colonial power's started drawing lines in the sand, many years ago. But, this civil war was started as part of the Arab Spring, and Assad's brutal crack down on protesters. Great video to watch. Hope you spend a few minutes to watch it. The fault lies with Assad. Nobody else. Not Russia, not the UK, not the US.

http://www.vox.com/2016/1/22/10815392/putin-russia-syria-assad

[craigt3365]

How is this so, Putin supports Assad, IS is against Assad meanwhile the UK support the rebels IS are rebels

It's extremely complicated. Too many players in Syria. Russia, Iran, Turkey, Saudia Arabia. The main reason Putin said he was going into Syria was to fight IS. Ends up, he's fighting the rebels that are against Assad who are also against IS. Putin is now admitting he's really supporting Assad, and rumors are he's not happy with Assad. But who's going to replace him? Tough situation....

Not true about the reason Russia went into Syria. Russia made it clear that it was to support the current Syrian government against ALL rebel groups including the IS and the so-called 'good' rebels, many of who are just as undemocratic and fascist as IS & Al-Nusra.

It is a pity that despite your moderate stance you continue to post anti-Russian propaganda & sometimes lies.

Hypocrite Hammond is from a country that has fanned the flames of Islamic terrorist groups in a number of ME countries including Syria.

Not anti-Russian. I think Russia is a great country. I'm anti Putin. Yes, Putin went into Syria to support Assad. And all rebel groups are against Assad. So makes sense to go after them. But, his initial claim was they were there to fight ISIS. Not true. And he's finally admitted it.

What lies have I posted? Syria is a major customer with Russia for weapons. One of the top. Gas pipelines were in the works to compete with what Russia supplies to Europe. It's a big deal to Putin.

http://www.interpretermag.com/putin-in-syria-even-isis-says-russia-is-not-bombing-isis/

Even ISIS Says Russia Is Not Bombing ISIS As Their Main Target In Syria

I can't believe people support Putin who is authorizing the bombing of innocent civilians. Amazing.

[khunken]

Putin fanning Syrian civil war is among the most ridiculous comments lately. Perhaps the observation might have value if from a party (US UK et al) who did not start the civil war.

So you're saying the US and the UK started the Syrian civil war? Links please. But not from RT.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/justin-huggler/syria-civil-war_b_4872170.html

That's a blog post. I don't give it much credibility. If you want to assign blame, you've got to go back to when the colonial power's started drawing lines in the sand, many years ago. But, this civil war was started as part of the Arab Spring, and Assad's brutal crack down on protesters. Great video to watch. Hope you spend a few minutes to watch it. The fault lies with Assad. Nobody else. Not Russia, not the UK, not the US.

http://www.vox.com/2016/1/22/10815392/putin-russia-syria-assad

Well I watched it and it is nothing more than US anti-Assad propaganda and even worse than the Huffington Post's article.

So IS's emergence and take over of part of Syria was all Assad's fault? US & other western countries as well as Saudi & Qatar interference in Syria had nothing to do with the crisis?

Assad is not blameless but once the real rebels were joined by all sorts of Islamic fundamentalist groups - many of them outsiders - who actually have fought with the original Syrian rebels and many of the latter have joined up with the IS outsiders, the crisis was internationalised.

What a pity that the same 'principle' didn't apply to Bahrain. There are many parties to blame, some not satisfied with turning Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan & now Yemen into failed & virtually failed states.

[khunken]

It's extremely complicated. Too many players in Syria. Russia, Iran, Turkey, Saudia Arabia. The main reason Putin said he was going into Syria was to fight IS. Ends up, he's fighting the rebels that are against Assad who are also against IS. Putin is now admitting he's really supporting Assad, and rumors are he's not happy with Assad. But who's going to replace him? Tough situation....

Not true about the reason Russia went into Syria. Russia made it clear that it was to support the current Syrian government against ALL rebel groups including the IS and the so-called 'good' rebels, many of who are just as undemocratic and fascist as IS & Al-Nusra.

It is a pity that despite your moderate stance you continue to post anti-Russian propaganda & sometimes lies.

Hypocrite Hammond is from a country that has fanned the flames of Islamic terrorist groups in a number of ME countries including Syria.

Not anti-Russian. I think Russia is a great country. I'm anti Putin. Yes, Putin went into Syria to support Assad. And all rebel groups are against Assad. So makes sense to go after them. But, his initial claim was they were there to fight ISIS. Not true. And he's finally admitted it.

What lies have I posted? Syria is a major customer with Russia for weapons. One of the top. Gas pipelines were in the works to compete with what Russia supplies to Europe. It's a big deal to Putin.

http://www.interpretermag.com/putin-in-syria-even-isis-says-russia-is-not-bombing-isis/

Even ISIS Says Russia Is Not Bombing ISIS As Their Main Target In Syria

I can't believe people support Putin who is authorizing the bombing of innocent civilians. Amazing.

If you can show evidence (real evidence not some anti- blog) of Putin ordering the bombing of civilians I will accept it, otherwise this is a lie.

Oh and alleging that Russia said it was going into Syria to target the IS sounds to me like another one.

All sorts of lies have been told (by others) that, for example, the US was targeting IS in Syria before the Russians arrived. Or that Turkey wasn't supporting IS. Too many to recount.

Edited February 2, 2016 by khunken

[arjunadawn]

Putin fanning Syrian civil war is among the most ridiculous comments lately. Perhaps the observation might have value if from a party (US UK et al) who did not start the civil war.

So you're saying the US and the UK started the Syrian civil war? Links please. But not from RT.

Let me be clear: The US established, funded and enable[s/d] DAESH/ISIS.

I pondered how to answer this because... providing links for this reality is like defending that day follows night. There is so much clear and overwhelming information on this point I am not sure where to begin except by laundry list. I will try to build a causation quickly. I think one unassailable key point is sufficient to set in motion a chain of causation and accountability. But there are two, training and supplies.

I would begin with 2 points: Many people I know starting training these idiots in Jordan before 2009. These are American and British former special forces/SAS (See KASOTC video), training at the US funded King Abdullah Training center KASOTC in Jordan, and then these jihadis returned to Syria. OGA Ground Branch were also training outside KASOTC (est. approx 2009) and earlier! The 'students' were returning to the "FSA" moderate forces when through training. Of course, they were all al nursa, AQ, etc., and DAESH. In fact, immediately following the largest blocks of training the FSA rep in DC explained they "needed vehicles," and lots of them, but their leaders on the ground only wanted Toyota Hilux (you cannot make this crap up). Shortly later the world is aghast when ISIS made their iconic and choreographed grand entrance and federal and international agencies began asking, incredulously "How did they get all these vehicles? These did not come from dealerships." In fact, many of them were specially fabricated for heavy weapons platforms in the beds, an act Toyota has legally restricted itself from doing by request long ago (unless its a state actor). (However, an earlier video later surfaced showing these vehicles being delivered with air cover support. The earlier videos show these vehicles arriving with heavy weapons platforms already built in by the manufacturer. Only a State actor could do this.

Bamm! hundreds of Hiluxs were sent... and disappeared.With initial training completed, arms routed through third parties after washing in Libya, hundreds of Toyotas, delivered, what next happens? The iconic image below of DEASH parading the weapons, clothing, trucks, and men in convoys beginning their reign of death. The world initially only saw the static images of ISIS driving these vehicles and the world demanded "?" It shuld be noted that the vast majorities of defections to DAESH happened after these days of DAESH's grand iconic Toyota entrance onto the battlefield. I can find no earlier example of US supplied "moderates" giving them equipment. It was direct support at inception.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3262837/U-S-officials-demand-answers-Toyota-convoys-carmaker-s-trucks-SUVs-appear-ISIS-videos.html

http://abcnews.go.com/International/us-officials-isis-toyota-trucks/story?id=34266539

http://www.pri.org/stories/2014-04-01/one-toyota-pickup-truck-top-shopping-list-free-syrian-army-and-taliban

The US necons most definitely designed upon Syria, pre Obama, the string of pearls theory of encircling Iran to break its contiguous hegemony and Syria figured prominently into multiple reasons. The absurdity of Seymour Hersch laying this open in 2007/9/12 is that every single thing he stated has come true. The absurdity of the neocon Which Path to Persia blueprint is that every single thing mentioned in this blueprint has come true except the actual division of lines in Syria into Alawaites/shia, sunni, and kurds. That is still pending.

This is the primary reason Russia is now pushing out into an island, in essence, and declaring an airbase nearer to Turkey. Russia knows the next two prong step for the US is to declare a peace process while simultaneously building a case for a no fly zone. It was always the plan. If I know this certainly Russia knows this. The no fly zone establishes in space what it wants concretion on the ground, division of Syria into fractured and impotent actors- sunni, shi/alawite/kurds. This is why Turkey demanded time to crucify the Syrian Kurds. Otherwise, they would not agree to the longer term division.

http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/research/files/papers/2009/6/iran%20strategy/06_iran_strategy.pdf

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.co.uk/2011/02/brookings-which-path-to-persia.html

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2007/03/05/the-redirection

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n08/seymour-m-hersh/the-red-line-and-the-rat-line

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/sunni-extremists-ravaging-syria-created.html

http://www.globalresearch.ca/america-created-al-qaeda-and-the-isis-terror-group/5402881

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2015/12/01/former-military-official-says-george-w-bush-created-isis

I have treated your request for information honorably. If a person still cannot see, they cannot see.

[craigt3365]

Well I watched it and it is nothing more than US anti-Assad propaganda and even worse than the Huffington Post's article.

So IS's emergence and take over of part of Syria was all Assad's fault? US & other western countries as well as Saudi & Qatar interference in Syria had nothing to do with the crisis?

Assad is not blameless but once the real rebels were joined by all sorts of Islamic fundamentalist groups - many of them outsiders - who actually have fought with the original Syrian rebels and many of the latter have joined up with the IS outsiders, the crisis was internationalised.

What a pity that the same 'principle' didn't apply to Bahrain. There are many parties to blame, some not satisfied with turning Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan & now Yemen into failed & virtually failed states.

Have to say, as the president of Syria, yes, what happens there is his fault. Blame lies with the one who's in control. And yes, many countries are getting involved. Same with IS. Why? A poor leader. Why is ISIS not doing this in, say, France? It just couldn't happen there.

I've no idea about Bahrian. Perhaps better for another topic.

[craigt3365]

Arjunadawn: Perhaps a bit off topic, but discussion of Islamist uprisings could cover many centuries. This isn't a new thing. Been going on a long time. Can't blame the west for everything.

[arjunadawn]

Putin fanning Syrian civil war is among the most ridiculous comments lately. Perhaps the observation might have value if from a party (US UK et al) who did not start the civil war.

So you're saying the US and the UK started the Syrian civil war? Links please. But not from RT.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/justin-huggler/syria-civil-war_b_4872170.html

That's a blog post. I don't give it much credibility. If you want to assign blame, you've got to go back to when the colonial power's started drawing lines in the sand, many years ago. But, this civil war was started as part of the Arab Spring, and Assad's brutal crack down on protesters. Great video to watch. Hope you spend a few minutes to watch it. The fault lies with Assad. Nobody else. Not Russia, not the UK, not the US.

http://www.vox.com/2016/1/22/10815392/putin-russia-syria-assad

I mean no disrespect, but [we] really need to start at the beginning. Unless someone either has this business as their life or otherwise has no life, no person should be expected to piece it all together from mainstream news sources and have a complete picture.

The Arab Spring is a wholly owned child of the National Endowment for Democracy, USAID, the Tides Foundations, and the hybrid marriage with the Open Society folks. Without question or objection these are the actors behind the Arab Spring and all the recent color revolutions from BKK to HKG to Ukraine to Georgia to... Its now an open secret. If one seriously wants to excuse the US for culpability and blame something on the Arab Spring well... I am sorry, only one image comes to mind (below ). Of course the unique outcome in Syria was predictable because Assad is/was a piece of human refuse. He's not the good guy here, but neither is my country.

[arjunadawn]

Arjunadawn: Perhaps a bit off topic, but discussion of Islamist uprisings could cover many centuries. This isn't a new thing. Been going on a long time. Can't blame the west for everything.

Of course you are correct but please consider the source- me! Daily I blame islamic jihad for everything; don't I? Why on earth would I now be stating something so opposite? Because fact is more shocking then opinion.

I do not conjecture the US created this current morass and it cannot be minimized by the appeal to the past- the US & Company DID create the problem. So many have died. So many have suffered. More shockingly but difficult to measure is the degradation in all that we have accomplished post enlightenment as a species, as a choice toward civilization. While not always the best advocate for Humanity, Truth, Law, Justice, and the Rights of Man, the modern age has struggled to define a human narrative that is an arc of enlightenment from primal Man to the stars. By inciting sectarian, religious, and regional divisions for gain and conquest we have allowed, in "our name," the total debasement of Mankind as a whole. Islamic jihad is only incidentally accomplishing this with regard to Syria and DAESH. This abomination is wholly owned by the West. However, there is only one existing primal ideology concurrent with modernity that can step in to fill such an abominable vacuum with the post enlightenment world is snuffed out.

EDIT: "when."

Edited February 2, 2016 by arjunadawn

[khunken]

Well I watched it and it is nothing more than US anti-Assad propaganda and even worse than the Huffington Post's article.

So IS's emergence and take over of part of Syria was all Assad's fault? US & other western countries as well as Saudi & Qatar interference in Syria had nothing to do with the crisis?

Assad is not blameless but once the real rebels were joined by all sorts of Islamic fundamentalist groups - many of them outsiders - who actually have fought with the original Syrian rebels and many of the latter have joined up with the IS outsiders, the crisis was internationalised.

What a pity that the same 'principle' didn't apply to Bahrain. There are many parties to blame, some not satisfied with turning Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan & now Yemen into failed & virtually failed states.

Have to say, as the president of Syria, yes, what happens there is his fault. Blame lies with the one who's in control. And yes, many countries are getting involved. Same with IS. Why? A poor leader. Why is ISIS not doing this in, say, France? It just couldn't happen there.

I've no idea about Bahrian. Perhaps better for another topic.

No what happens in most ME countries is interference. Blame lies with ALL those involved. Assad is a poor leader, yes, but that is no excuse to get involved in yet another attempt to overthrow another ME dictator who, despite his faults, protected the minorities from the likes of Islamic fundamentalists like IS & Al-Nusra.

Doing what in France? Have you missed the attacks of a few months ago? Is the Tunisian leadership a poor government? IS is involved there too. Turkey (how ironic), Yemen, Somalia (AQ affiliate), Indonesia, even Saudi (ironic again) all have had IS-linked attacks.

It all boils down to which group - ruling or otherwise - is the greater threat to the region and beyond & it's certainly not Assad.

[craigt3365]

I mean no disrespect, but [we] really need to start at the beginning. Unless someone either has this business as their life or otherwise has no life, no person should be expected to piece it all together from mainstream news sources and have a complete picture.

The Arab Spring is a wholly owned child of the National Endowment for Democracy, USAID, the Tides Foundations, and the hybrid marriage with the Open Society folks. Without question or objection these are the actors behind the Arab Spring and all the recent color revolutions from BKK to HKG to Ukraine to Georgia to... Its now an open secret. If one seriously wants to excuse the US for culpability and blame something on the Arab Spring well... I am sorry, only one image comes to mind (below ). Of course the unique outcome in Syria was predictable because Assad is/was a piece of human refuse. He's not the good guy here, but neither is my country.

Wow. USAID. Really? LOL Made my day. I prefer this explanation, but maybe you are right. Wiki is run by USAID:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Spring

The Arab Spring is widely believed to have been instigated by dissatisfaction with the rule of local governments, particularly by youth and unions, though some have speculated that wide gaps in income levels may have had a hand as well.^%5B43%5D Other analysts pointed to the fourth stage "Toppling the Regimes" of the Al Qaeda strategy for world domination, described in Fouad Hussein's book published in 2005.^%5B44%5D Numerous factors led to the protests, including issues such as dictatorship or absolute monarchy, human rights violations, political corruption (demonstrated by Wikileaks diplomatic cables),^%5B45%5D economic decline, unemployment, extreme poverty, and a number of demographic structural factors,^%5B46%5D such as a large percentage of educated but dissatisfied youth within the entire population.^{%5B47%5D%5B48%5D} Catalysts for the revolts in all Northern African and Persian Gulf countries included the concentration of wealth in the hands of autocrats in power for decades, insufficient transparency of its redistribution, corruption, and especially the refusal of the youth to accept the status quo.^%5B49%5D Some protesters looked to the Turkish model as an ideal (contested but peaceful elections, fast-growing but liberal economy, secular constitution but Islamist government).^%5B50%5D More broadly, increasing food prices and famine rates associated with climate change may have acted as "stressors" that contributed to unrest in the region.^{%5B51%5D%5B52%5D%5B53%5D}

Are you saying none of the above is true??? I'm not saying the US and the west are blameless. I'm saying they are not the cause behind the Syrian civil war. And that Putin is fanning the flames there. Which is the subject of this thread.

[arjunadawn]

I mean no disrespect, but [we] really need to start at the beginning. Unless someone either has this business as their life or otherwise has no life, no person should be expected to piece it all together from mainstream news sources and have a complete picture.

The Arab Spring is a wholly owned child of the National Endowment for Democracy, USAID, the Tides Foundations, and the hybrid marriage with the Open Society folks. Without question or objection these are the actors behind the Arab Spring and all the recent color revolutions from BKK to HKG to Ukraine to Georgia to... Its now an open secret. If one seriously wants to excuse the US for culpability and blame something on the Arab Spring well... I am sorry, only one image comes to mind (below ). Of course the unique outcome in Syria was predictable because Assad is/was a piece of human refuse. He's not the good guy here, but neither is my country.

Wow. USAID. Really? LOL Made my day. I prefer this explanation, but maybe you are right. Wiki is run by USAID:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Spring

The Arab Spring is widely believed to have been instigated by dissatisfaction with the rule of local governments, particularly by youth and unions, though some have speculated that wide gaps in income levels may have had a hand as well.^%5B43%5D Other analysts pointed to the fourth stage "Toppling the Regimes" of the Al Qaeda strategy for world domination, described in Fouad Hussein's book published in 2005.^%5B44%5D Numerous factors led to the protests, including issues such as dictatorship or absolute monarchy, human rights violations, political corruption (demonstrated by Wikileaks diplomatic cables),^%5B45%5D economic decline, unemployment, extreme poverty, and a number of demographic structural factors,^%5B46%5D such as a large percentage of educated but dissatisfied youth within the entire population.^{%5B47%5D%5B48%5D} Catalysts for the revolts in all Northern African and Persian Gulf countries included the concentration of wealth in the hands of autocrats in power for decades, insufficient transparency of its redistribution, corruption, and especially the refusal of the youth to accept the status quo.^%5B49%5D Some protesters looked to the Turkish model as an ideal (contested but peaceful elections, fast-growing but liberal economy, secular constitution but Islamist government).^%5B50%5D More broadly, increasing food prices and famine rates associated with climate change may have acted as "stressors" that contributed to unrest in the region.^{%5B51%5D%5B52%5D%5B53%5D}

Are you saying none of the above is true??? I'm not saying the US and the west are blameless. I'm saying they are not the cause behind the Syrian civil war. And that Putin is fanning the flames there. Which is the subject of this thread.

USAID is a tool and regrettably has been long compromised by "other agencies," but they are not primary actors in all of this. Putin/Russia knows exactly what these color revolutions/Arab Spring nonsense is and that is why Putin/Duma joined other countries in beginning to expel the NEA/NGOs that are operating with mercenary motives and "cover for status." Having, I suspect, managed the nefarious tentacles at home Putin began to see that [their] success in Syria would directly harm him/Russia. Still, I suspect, he measured the fact that the Frankenstein the US created was "blow[ing] back" and took advantage of this. Putin's actions are predictable because the US playbook has already been written for Syria.

A topical image only google search for "Arab Spring fist symbol" then "Ukraine fist symbol" then "Georgia Fist symbol, Balkans Fist symbol, ______d fist symbol" etc will reveal a stunning thread. Search out all types of various color revolutions since the Balkans debacle and you will find the same connectivity. I am aware that this symbol predates these events but they have been sewn together recently. We begin seeing this with Otpor. Later it was revealed that this movement was in fact compromised and bought and paid for by the US through its hybrid proxies that always accompany US troops. The lessons learned there consolidated color revolutions as an exportable template. Later married with other NGOs through Soros Open Society & Company this revolution template was exported into target countries under the guise of NGOs. Thus the non-stop train of color revolutions over the past 20 years. No, its not an awakening, per se; its imperialism under "cover for action."

These NGOs do target real grievances in the select countries but then teach how to basically act as insurgents and polarize the emotions of real or fictitious grievances. I know. I taught counter/insurgency (COIN) my entire life. Married with real time intel feeds, PR, media access, money, organization tools, communication tools, symbols of resistance, local iconography (such as, hrmm, for example, maybe red shirts, or the colors lavender, or purple, or blue.) the perennial fist from Otpor binds them all. The Arab Spring was contrived by Empire. Syria is a case of imperial hubris. Assad is a tyrant, but comparatively he is an equal.

The same media that assists insurgent narratives indicts Putin for no other reason then upsetting imperial designs. Whatever label Putin can have for his actions in Syria it can hardly be as base.

[Scott]

Please get back on the topic, which is about Putin's role in the Syrian conflict.

Continued off-topic posting will result in suspensions. Enough with the history lessons, especially those from dubious sources by dubious authors.

[chilli42]

Putin fanning Syrian civil war is among the most ridiculous comments lately. Perhaps the observation might have value if from a party (US UK et al) who did not start the civil war.

So you're saying the US and the UK started the Syrian civil war? Links please. But not from RT.

Well let's see. There are three main rebel groups and one of those is al Qaeda - thank the US for that. The others are the Kurds who are OK and one small groups of Syrian rebels. Let's not forget the unnecssary war in Iraq that created the conditions that let to ISIS. But you asked for links. A few below.

https://m.youtube.com/?client=mv-google#/verify_age?next=%2Fwatch%3Ffeature%3Dyoutu.be%26v%3Do6kdi1UXxhY&client=mv-google

http://www.salon.com/2015/11/17/we_created_islamic_extremism_those_blaming_islam_for_isis_would_have_supported_osama_bin_laden_in_the_80s/

http://davidstockmanscontracorner.com/erdogan-busted-the-isis-oil-pipeline-through-ceyhan/

[webfact]

UK berates Russia ahead of Donors’ Conference on Syria



"Russia cannot continue to sit at the table as a sponsor of a political process and at the same time be bombing the civilian areas of the groups of people that we believe will form the backbone of the new Syria once Assad is gone."

LONDON: -- Ahead of the London Donors’ Conference on Syria, British Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond visited the Zaatari refugee camp in Jordan.

The conference will focus on the humanitarian needs of those affected by Syria’s five-year civil war. Its neighbour Jordan says it is hosting 1.27 million Syrians:http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/37d35b58-c8c3-11e5-a8ef-ea66e967dd44.html#axzz3z10uhp47. The country has a total population of 9.5 million.

Criticism of Russia

Hammond admonished Russia for its air assaults on civilian areas within Syria.

“Until a couple of months ago there was a steady trickle of people returning to their homes in Syria from this camp despite what’s going on in the country. But that has now stopped and a new tide of refugees is heading in this direction because of the Russian bombing,” he said.

“Russia cannot continue to sit at the table as a sponsor of a political process and at the same time be bombing the civilian areas of the groups of people that we believe will form the backbone of the new Syria once Assad is gone.”

Turkey also criticised Moscow’s air strikes ahead of the third round of peace talks on Syria at the end of January.

When it seemed the opposition parties would not attend the Geneva talks, Turkish President, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, said:

“Unfortunately, the promises made to the opposition were not met. The continued Russian bombing of opposition areas has especially created a significant problem for them.”

Similar sentiments were echoed by spokesman for the opposition High Negotiations Committee (HNC), Salim al-Muslat and Federica Mogherini, the European Union’s Foreign Policy Chief.

Jordan at the Donors’ Conference
The Syria Donors’ Conference 2016 will be hosted by the UK, Germany, Norway, Kuwait and the United Nations, on February 4.

Jordan is expected to ask for 1.6 billion dollars over three years to help fund its overstretched economy, social services and infrastructure.

Jordanian Minister of State for Media Affairs, Mohammad Momani, expressed his hope for an international effort towards resolving the problems caused by the Syrian civil war.

“We hope that there will be a serious international commitment towards the Syrian crisis. We look at this conference as a political conference, whereby Europe and the international community can give enough commitment and support to shouldering part of the responsibility that the host countries are undertaking in this period of time,” he said.

Of the 1.27 million Syrians reported to be in Jordan, 630,000 are registered with the UN. The agency says most live alongside Jordanian locals, outside of refugee camps.

The right to work
Many refugees are not legally allowed to work in Jordan, meaning some of those registered in the country have ended up in Europe, the UN High Commission for Refugees (UNHCR) reports.

They are said to be lured by the hope of employment.

The UK is among several countries advocating allowing more Syrians to work in Jordan. Jordan’s Prime Minister, Abdullah Ensour, has agreed to allow tens of thousands of Syrians to work in the country, as long as the international community offers the aid it requests.


-- (c) Copyright Euronews 2016-02-03

[retarius]

Putin fanning Syrian civil war is among the most ridiculous comments lately. Perhaps the observation might have value if from a party (US UK et al) who did not start the civil war.

So you're saying the US and the UK started the Syrian civil war? Links please. But not from RT.

Let me be clear: The US established, funded and enable[s/d] DAESH/ISIS.

I pondered how to answer this because... providing links for this reality is like defending that day follows night. There is so much clear and overwhelming information on this point I am not sure where to begin except by laundry list. I will try to build a causation quickly. I think one unassailable key point is sufficient to set in motion a chain of causation and accountability. But there are two, training and supplies.

I would begin with 2 points: Many people I know starting training these idiots in Jordan before 2009. These are American and British former special forces/SAS (See KASOTC video), training at the US funded King Abdullah Training center KASOTC in Jordan, and then these jihadis returned to Syria. OGA Ground Branch were also training outside KASOTC (est. approx 2009) and earlier! The 'students' were returning to the "FSA" moderate forces when through training. Of course, they were all al nursa, AQ, etc., and DAESH. In fact, immediately following the largest blocks of training the FSA rep in DC explained they "needed vehicles," and lots of them, but their leaders on the ground only wanted Toyota Hilux (you cannot make this crap up). Shortly later the world is aghast when ISIS made their iconic and choreographed grand entrance and federal and international agencies began asking, incredulously "How did they get all these vehicles? These did not come from dealerships." In fact, many of them were specially fabricated for heavy weapons platforms in the beds, an act Toyota has legally restricted itself from doing by request long ago (unless its a state actor). (However, an earlier video later surfaced showing these vehicles being delivered with air cover support. The earlier videos show these vehicles arriving with heavy weapons platforms already built in by the manufacturer. Only a State actor could do this.

Bamm! hundreds of Hiluxs were sent... and disappeared.With initial training completed, arms routed through third parties after washing in Libya, hundreds of Toyotas, delivered, what next happens? The iconic image below of DEASH parading the weapons, clothing, trucks, and men in convoys beginning their reign of death. The world initially only saw the static images of ISIS driving these vehicles and the world demanded "?" It shuld be noted that the vast majorities of defections to DAESH happened after these days of DAESH's grand iconic Toyota entrance onto the battlefield. I can find no earlier example of US supplied "moderates" giving them equipment. It was direct support at inception.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3262837/U-S-officials-demand-answers-Toyota-convoys-carmaker-s-trucks-SUVs-appear-ISIS-videos.html

http://abcnews.go.com/International/us-officials-isis-toyota-trucks/story?id=34266539

http://www.pri.org/stories/2014-04-01/one-toyota-pickup-truck-top-shopping-list-free-syrian-army-and-taliban

The US necons most definitely designed upon Syria, pre Obama, the string of pearls theory of encircling Iran to break its contiguous hegemony and Syria figured prominently into multiple reasons. The absurdity of Seymour Hersch laying this open in 2007/9/12 is that every single thing he stated has come true. The absurdity of the neocon Which Path to Persia blueprint is that every single thing mentioned in this blueprint has come true except the actual division of lines in Syria into Alawaites/shia, sunni, and kurds. That is still pending.

This is the primary reason Russia is now pushing out into an island, in essence, and declaring an airbase nearer to Turkey. Russia knows the next two prong step for the US is to declare a peace process while simultaneously building a case for a no fly zone. It was always the plan. If I know this certainly Russia knows this. The no fly zone establishes in space what it wants concretion on the ground, division of Syria into fractured and impotent actors- sunni, shi/alawite/kurds. This is why Turkey demanded time to crucify the Syrian Kurds. Otherwise, they would not agree to the longer term division.

http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/research/files/papers/2009/6/iran%20strategy/06_iran_strategy.pdf

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.co.uk/2011/02/brookings-which-path-to-persia.html

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2007/03/05/the-redirection

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n08/seymour-m-hersh/the-red-line-and-the-rat-line

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/sunni-extremists-ravaging-syria-created.html

http://www.globalresearch.ca/america-created-al-qaeda-and-the-isis-terror-group/5402881

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2015/12/01/former-military-official-says-george-w-bush-created-isis

I have treated your request for information honorably. If a person still cannot see, they cannot see.

Brilliant post. Thank you

[sunnyjim5]

Mr Putin appears to be the only one committed to eliminating the rabid extremists. He deserves support.

[craigt3365]

Mr Putin appears to be the only one committed to eliminating the rabid extremists. He deserves support.

One man's rabid extremist is another's freedom fighter.

[AGLV0121]

On 2/2/2016 at 5:53 AM, craigt3365 said:

The fault lies with Assad. Nobody else. Not Russia, not the UK, not the US.

 

Absolutely.

The West did not start the uprising in Syria.
Syrian kids in Daraa saw what happened in Tunisia, Egypt, wanted better living conditions, freedom.
One wrote a grafitti on a wall. The very harsh (euphemism) reaction of Assad's government is the true responsible for riots.

The true story:
http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/specialseries/2017/02/boy-started-syrian-war-170208093451538.html
 

[ilostmypassword]

Just now, AGLV0121 said:

 

Absolutely.

The West did not start the uprising in Syria.
Syrian kids in Daraa saw what happened in Tunisia, Egypt, wanted better living conditions, freedom.
One wrote a grafitti on a wall. The very harsh (euphemism) reaction of Assad's government is the true responsible for riots.

The true story:
http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/specialseries/2017/02/boy-started-syrian-war-170208093451538.html
 

Unfortunately, given the strength of extremist Sunni militias in Syria, and the weakness of  moderate militias, the cure is worse than the disease.