Defamation suit hits veteran BBC correspondent for reports on fraud

[arrowsdawdle]

A good test for the Thai legal system. Let's see what the courts say.

You are kidding, right? Six thousand posts and you are not aware that the Thai legal system is never tested...just baht and sold.

[ggt]

Should not the first order of business be to verify the BBC correspondent's allegations of fraud...and if found false by "independent un-purchased investigators"...then consider suing the reporter...

This seems to be the standard Thai tactic to deflect the conversation from the corruption to the reporter...

[MZurf]

My throught entirely, but I would add that Mr Head should be "rotated" after so many years here...

Although I am no great fan of Mr Head for his skewed, unsided reporting on the political crisis pre-coup, I am with him on this one.

It seems that foreign journalists in Thailand just cant win.Relative newcomers are told they cant possibly understand Thailand's unique politics.Those who have been here long enough to have acquired knowledge and experience are told they should be "rotated".

Basic message seems to be as I noted earlier is that foreign journalists are not encouraged to deviate from the approved narrative.

Long time or short time, it's OK as long as they buy the official line that it's the bogeyman in Dubai that is the root of all Thailand's problems....

[Emster23]

Is it even possible to defame at Thai Lawyer? I think law has some part about lowering victims esteem in eyes of others..... clearly not possible here. There is no temperature below absolute zero.

[wandasloan]

Should not the first order of business be to verify the BBC correspondent's allegations of fraud...and if found false by "independent un-purchased investigators"...then consider suing the reporter...

This seems to be the standard Thai tactic to deflect the conversation from the corruption to the reporter...

Absolutely not. Are you American? I ask because it's only in that country that such a course might be considered. Anyone in Europe knows this one.

The primary order of business is to determine if the people suing were defamed. Truth has nothing to do with the actual case. It might be brought up at sentencing.

[Badbanker]

Sadly, every day, people in popular Thai tourist destinations, part with money for property that is systematically being watched and targeted for removal from the owners by illicit means.

This is the big take away from this story. Don't invest in property in Thailand!

The BBC article has sent shock waves through the real estate business in Phuket and saved hundreds of people from losing their money.

This is the good news!

Something I am pleased to hear is, property agents in Phuket, are having a real hard time selling property and they admit it is because of the BBC story.

[abitmiffed]

To all the expats who lives in Thailand for a while now, the truth is plain to see, lawyers in Thailand

are a nothing but a Bunch of crocks with a diploma, and I'm speaking from personal and costly experience....

however, it up to the defended now to prove a crock to be a crock, I hope he will succeeds in

doing so...

Name 1 lawyer in the rest of the world that is not the same??

No ethics

No morals

No standards

Just thiefs. And great liars.

[silent]

As Thailand seems so pledged to keep its image to the world then having cases like this and others, does nothing but make people abroad look at it and laugh. Its image is not seen in a positive light and with the world glued to social media, it will not be able to stop the ridicule from this story. When will it learn!

Is it learning or evolving?

[jayboy]

My throught entirely, but I would add that Mr Head should be "rotated" after so many years here...

Although I am no great fan of Mr Head for his skewed, unsided reporting on the political crisis pre-coup, I am with him on this one.

It seems that foreign journalists in Thailand just cant win.Relative newcomers are told they cant possibly understand Thailand's unique politics.Those who have been here long enough to have acquired knowledge and experience are told they should be "rotated".

Basic message seems to be as I noted earlier is that foreign journalists are not encouraged to deviate from the approved narrative.

Long time or short time, it's OK as long as they buy the official line that it's the bogeyman in Dubai that is the root of all Thailand's problems....

Yes - they mistake the symptom for the cause.

[MZurf]

As Thailand seems so pledged to keep its image to the world then having cases like this and others, does nothing but make people abroad look at it and laugh. Its image is not seen in a positive light and with the world glued to social media, it will not be able to stop the ridicule from this story. When will it learn!

Is it learning or evolving?

This country cannot evolve as it's held in stasis by a junta. Only when the military/elite stop interfering can Thailand evolve - one way or another.

[BestBitterPhuket]

He should not be based in Thailand, but in Singapore or Philippines instead. Foreign correspondents for major news agencies should stay outside Thailand.

[johnnytuc]

Aren't laws in Thailand quite clear?

You can't own a house.

He bought a house.

You Are wrong, you can own a house on a 30/30 lease, you dont own the land but YOU do own the property...... I did and sold only problem, was lease holder wanted a backhander .

[ianf]

Although I am no great fan of Mr Head for his skewed, unsided reporting on the political crisis pre-coup, I am with him on this one.

That's your view and I appreciate Jonathan Head became a hate figure for the myopic mainly Sino Thai urban middle class.However his true offence was to scrutinise the cynicism and deceipt of the unelected elites.These people and the useful idiots in their trail cannot bear any deviation from the approved narrative.The predictable but utterly stupid suggestion that he was sympathetic to Thaksin can be demolished simply by looking at what JH said and wrote.

I have it on the personal opinion of Khun Anand Panyarachun - universally regarded as someone of knowledge and integrity - that JH is a journalist of the highest distinction.

I couldn't disagree more. But no need to give the details here as I know I could not persuade Fanboy (or was that Jayboy?) to change his view.

[Thaidream]

This case is a perfect example of why no Thai journalist will attempt investigative reporting. Those who have money can use any means to make more and never fear the long arm of the press. It is getting like this in the West as most journalists now are not really journalist but entertainers or news readers.

[kiwikeith]

While this defamation law is in force it will always be used by criminals to cover up their crimes or exact a measure of revenge on someone who writes about them.

It's a law that appears to have been designed to make people keep their mouths shut and silence journalists.

This is as pathetic as the Police busting geriatric Bridge players.

It is pathetic and will be thrown out of court eventually.

Wasn't Head involved in reporting on the B2 case, another democratic show by the enlightened ones venture for a fair and just LOS.

Keep it up the world stage is watching your soapie.

[kiwikeith]

This case is a perfect example of why no Thai journalist will attempt investigative reporting. Those who have money can use any means to make more and never fear the long arm of the press. It is getting like this in the West as most journalists now are not really journalist but entertainers or news readers.

Investigative Journalists are DEAD. Worldwide.

they are no longer reporters, They are now repeaters.

there is some hope as a few survivers from around the globe are now on RT.

[johnhw]

A good test for the Thai legal system. Let's see what the courts say.

What does it matter what the courts say?

Based on my observations of posts here, if the courts do the right thing, most here will declare the evidence too strong and unconcealable to be manipulated. If the courts do the unspeakable, it will be declared 'as usual' by the wiseheads here.

[MZurf]

Although I am no great fan of Mr Head for his skewed, unsided reporting on the political crisis pre-coup, I am with him on this one.

That's your view and I appreciate Jonathan Head became a hate figure for the myopic mainly Sino Thai urban middle class.However his true offence was to scrutinise the cynicism and deceipt of the unelected elites.These people and the useful idiots in their trail cannot bear any deviation from the approved narrative.The predictable but utterly stupid suggestion that he was sympathetic to Thaksin can be demolished simply by looking at what JH said and wrote.

I have it on the personal opinion of Khun Anand Panyarachun - universally regarded as someone of knowledge and integrity - that JH is a journalist of the highest distinction.

I couldn't disagree more. But no need to give the details here as I know I could not persuade Fanboy (or was that Jayboy?) to change his view.

Wow. You have really convinced me with your profound and compelling arguments!

[mmh8]

 

A good test for the Thai legal system. Let's see what the courts say.

 

I assume you post in jest

We know the state of the Thai legal system

it depends on if people bigger than the lawyer are invovled, if they have clought, money etc.

if its to do with people smuggling, killing of immigrants and those claiming asylum which may invovle certain uniform wearing people then Head will be found guilty.

of course, if the beeb actually have money to throw at this case and willing to risk being censered in thailand then it could be interesting. I suspect the beeb will see business sense. they ain't the institution they once were.

[mmh8]

 

As Thailand seems so pledged to keep its image to the world then having cases like this and others, does nothing but make people abroad look at it and laugh. Its image is not seen in a positive light and with the world glued to social media, it will not be able to stop the ridicule from this story. When will it learn!

Is it learning or evolving?

This country cannot evolve as it's held in stasis by a junta. Only when the military/elite stop interfering can Thailand evolve - one way or another.

 

thios is the crux of the problem. the military and backers actually beleive that the common people are too stupid to run their own country and need to be dictated to. yes they actually believe it. and they indoctrinate that belief into the rank and files. As you may know , schooling here does not encopuirage free thinking , nor questioning of those with - perceived- greater status thus even those you may consider intelligent may spout the same crap at you ( despite attending world class institutions and undergoing free world training) the military more than anywhere do not encourage free thinkers.

but this is the case of military all over the world. just not every country gives the military free rein

[gemguy]

You would think, after how many years and how many cases where Thai people frivolously try to fight back and sue other people for having exposed their malfeasance and corruption and illegal and harmful activities or what ever they are exposed on, the journalists would have collectively formed someway or means to stop such desperate lawsuits based on defamation of character....and in the case of the Thais ...loss of face.

The defamation of character and associated Tort Laws exist world wide and adopted by most countries and can be a useful tool to correct a wrong when the violated party is not guilty of any wrong doing and can be proven as so.

Meantime, here in Thailand the Tort laws are used as a means to silence critics or opponents rather than protect people that are unduly and maliciously attacked or publically criticized by way of several forms of documented public media.

The laws are most often used by public figures and or politicians or the elite or the wealthy to stymie the criticisms of their exposed actions or conduct which are most often illegal or in violation of numerous regulations or acceptable social conduct.

Unfortunate the Tort laws here in Thailand carry more weight than the laws that are supposed to stop the wrong doings of people being publically exposed.

If a person of influence or wealth or high social status was caught on camera murdering someone and that video was publically displayed, including scathing criticism of the person perpetrating the crime, then the murderer can launch a defamation of character lawsuit under the Thai Tort laws against the person(s) or any entities that publically displayed the video and published the criticism or public attack of character upon the plaintiffs character or conduct while the defamation lawsuit would supersede the laws pertaining to the heinous act of murder.

That is how twisted the enforcement of the laws are here in Thailand in such cases.

Unfortunately these frivolous and often desperate defamation of character lawsuits are readily accepted by the prosecutors and the courts and the Judges as being more important than the related criminal matters or criminal conduct that is attached to the defamation law suit.

What is needed is the ability to stop the frivolous defamation of character lawsuits at a level where the plaintiff has to prove that the allegations are not true more so than the onus being put on the defense to prove that the allegations are true.

Very few defamation lawsuits are rejected as usually they are initiated by people that have lots of money ...so they can afford to pay for the costs while the lawyers make good money encouraging their clients to press on with the defamation law suit...no matter just how guilty their clients are of any wrong doing.

The legal system concerning Tort Laws here in Thailand is working against the overall legal system and used as a means to silence any criticism or exposure of said wrong doings....perpetrated by the "Evil Wrong Doers"...as President George Bush would say

http://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/civil-litigation/defamation-character-lawsuit-proving-harm.html

Cheers

[Transporter]

The whole point of this complete nonsense is simply to try and keep Mr Head busy. I bet he is sleeping easy and smiling all the time.

Meanwhile the Lawyer is wasting his time and making Thailand less attractive in too many ways.

[springheeled jack]

I feel sorry for this chap rance just when he thought he had everything sorted his wife decided she wanted more from the marriage stripped all his assets by forging his signature then doing a runner and was eventually caught and charged.

[aslimversgwm]

Aren't laws in Thailand quite clear?

You can't own a house.

He bought a house.

NOT true. You can own a house - you can't own the land.

I have a usufruct document - annotated by the CM Land Office on the title deed for the land - which gives me ABSOLUTE right to the house and to live in it no, matter what happens to my relationship with the land owner - my partner.

Neither can the land can not be used as collateral for obtaining a loan by my partner - another wheeze or scam I read about, which can result in said land being taken over by the creditor upon default.

A usufruct is little known outside of CM province and I have heard it isn't accepted by some Thai Provincial Land Offices, despite it being perfectly legal and binding in Thai law.

A usufruct is considered stronger than the more commonly used 30 year lease arrangement, less costly, and not needing renewal every 30 years of course!

[Gandtee]

Trust me. I'm a lawyer!! I was conned by a Thai lawyer out of Bt.200,000. It even got as far as the court where in my stupidity I agreed, at the persuasion of my new lawyer, to settle out of court. The crook agreed to pay monthly installments into the court. Needless to say no payment was made. Brothers in arms. He was keeping two families going. His legal family and his mistress. The only satisfaction I had was reporting him to the partner of his new practice and he was ousted. I had him sacked from his old one and even tracked him down at a factory where he was working and shook the bushes about him. In the end, my wife and I decided to cease this futile exercise and get our minds right. It still rankles though. Steer clear of lawyers. Due to the nature of their job they are practiced in the art of deception.

[aslimversgwm]

You would think, after how many years and how many cases where Thai people frivolously try to fight back and sue other people for having exposed their malfeasance and corruption and illegal and harmful activities or what ever they are exposed on, the journalists would have collectively formed someway or means to stop such desperate lawsuits based on defamation of character....and in the case of the Thais ...loss of face.

The defamation of character and associated Tort Laws exist world wide and adopted by most countries and can be a useful tool to correct a wrong when the violated party is not guilty of any wrong doing and can be proven as so.

Meantime, here in Thailand the Tort laws are used as a means to silence critics or opponents rather than protect people that are unduly and maliciously attacked or publically criticized by way of several forms of documented public media.

The laws are most often used by public figures and or politicians or the elite or the wealthy to stymie the criticisms of their exposed actions or conduct which are most often illegal or in violation of numerous regulations or acceptable social conduct.

Unfortunate the Tort laws here in Thailand carry more weight than the laws that are supposed to stop the wrong doings of people being publically exposed.

If a person of influence or wealth or high social status was caught on camera murdering someone and that video was publically displayed, including scathing criticism of the person perpetrating the crime, then the murderer can launch a defamation of character lawsuit under the Thai Tort laws against the person(s) or any entities that publically displayed the video and published the criticism or public attack of character upon the plaintiffs character or conduct while the defamation lawsuit would supersede the laws pertaining to the heinous act of murder.

That is how twisted the enforcement of the laws are here in Thailand in such cases.

Unfortunately these frivolous and often desperate defamation of character lawsuits are readily accepted by the prosecutors and the courts and the Judges as being more important than the related criminal matters or criminal conduct that is attached to the defamation law suit.

What is needed is the ability to stop the frivolous defamation of character lawsuits at a level where the plaintiff has to prove that the allegations are not true more so than the onus being put on the defense to prove that the allegations are true.

Very few defamation lawsuits are rejected as usually they are initiated by people that have lots of money ...so they can afford to pay for the costs while the lawyers make good money encouraging their clients to press on with the defamation law suit...no matter just how guilty their clients are of any wrong doing.

The legal system concerning Tort Laws here in Thailand is working against the overall legal system and used as a means to silence any criticism or exposure of said wrong doings....perpetrated by the "Evil Wrong Doers"...as President George Bush would say

http://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/civil-litigation/defamation-character-lawsuit-proving-harm.html

Cheers

Very well stated gemguy.

You must have been a lawyer, or still are perhaps?

[Bill Miller]

Seems the crux is the notary public.

http://www.thailawonline.com/en/others/public-notary-in-thailand.html

However, Thailand has not yet enacted OFFICIALLY an Act of the Parliament for “Notary Public” which could make a problem. At the moment, it's only a regulation of the Thai Lawyer's council. For instance, if you need a document to be used in a Foreign Court of justice, and if the other party contest this document, they could win. They could plead that Thai Law does NOT recognize notarial services, which is true.

I use to have to do a lot of these, luckily, no more. Many times, the US won't accept a document notarized here. I have to go to the US embassy for this. And for good reason. One document I signed was OK to be notarized here. I gave the form to the "lawyer" and he stamped it. I hadn't even signed it yet! And he didn't even look at what the document was. Nor did he look at my ID. Something which is required by a notary in the US.

As for defamation, it doesn't have to be true for this lawyer to win. He just has to lose business. Sick law.

Nevertheless notarized documents are required for various immigration procedures. Hmmm.

[Krataiboy]

While this defamation law is in force it will always be used by criminals to cover up their crimes or exact a measure of revenge on someone who writes about them.

Yes it will. Just as it will always be used by people who have been defamed or libelled or slandered. Evil and nasty and brutish and outlaw people use every law. So do law-abiding citizens.

For example, in this case, the journalist could sue the lawyer if he believes the lawyer is slandering him or libelling him in the lawsuit - which it sort of sounds like he is.

It's a law that appears to have been designed to make people keep their mouths shut and silence journalists.

The law itself wasn't designed, it was copied. If you are from the UK or Europe or North America you will be quite familiar with it.

BUT there is one huge difference in that it is both a civil and a criminal law. The language and the provisions of the law are straight out of British law. It's the penalty phase that makes it (I think) unique to Thailand. Until then, you get to charge/defend just as you would anywhere.

To get off, a defendant has to prove not only that what was asserted was true but also that it was in the public interest for the assertion to be published.

[Gandtee]

Trust me. I'm a lawyer!! I was conned by a Thai lawyer out of Bt.200,000. It even got as far as the court where in my stupidity I agreed, at the persuasion of my new lawyer, to settle out of court. The crook agreed to pay monthly installments into the court. Needless to say no payment was made. Brothers in arms. He was keeping two families going. His legal family and his mistress. The only satisfaction I had was reporting him to the partner of his new practice and he was ousted. I had him sacked from his old one and even tracked him down at a factory where he was working and shook the bushes about him. In the end, my wife and I decided to cease this futile exercise and get our minds right. It still rankles though. Steer clear of lawyers. Due to the nature of their job they are practiced in the art of deception.

I would add that this was about 20 years ago. I am less naive now. I hope.

[Benmart]

History has many examples of the devices used to silence the exercise of freedom. Those who use such devices are often held accountable by world bodies.