Uninsured Brit in Phuket moped accident has left her parents with £35,000 credit card debts

[joebrown]

Too bad she had the accident....hope she fully recovers and soon. But she "didn't forget" to get insurance....she just didn't want to pay for insurance. Too many young people always feel indestructible/think it will not happen to me.

Not just the young.

An astonishing number of TV members live here without insurance.

I retired and came to Thailand at the age of 60 and thought my UK company pension benefit of free BUPA Health Insurance would be continued as this company operates in Thailand as well. I was wrong and found out my UK cover ceased as soon as I became a resident here. Even though I had a 30 year 'no claims' history with BUPA in the UK, this counted for nothing with BUPA Thailand! The premiums I was quoted just seemed exhorbitant so I decided to 'self insure' for 9 years in the hope that nothing untoward happened. I was lucky, and apart from regular out-patient check-ups at my local hospital I had very little expenditure.on health.I thought I can't keep riding this luck so at the ripe old age of 69 decided to get some quotes from various health insurers here in LOS. I'm glad to say that I've now done the sensible thing and can live my life knowing that I have some financial protection if the worst happens.

[Blue Muton]

The mother issued good advice to all tourists, in the form of the remark, .(Brits) do things on holiday that they would never dream of doing at home. Good on her I say, because if only one tourist takes heed, then she has helped.

The full report states that the girl was on "the back" of the "moped" when the accident happened. Does this imply that someone else was driving it? Whoever was driving it that person legally required a Thai motorcycle licence or International Licence, because most insurance companies would, as outlined in a previous post, use this factor to make a claim null and void.

Which brings me to the oft confused term moped. A moped in the UK is by definition a hybred of a motor attached to a pedal bicycle. In the UK, no drivers licence is required to use one, as they are regarded more a bicycle than a motorcycle. I have never seen one of these in Thailand, however I have seen motorcycles and motorscooters advertised under this term.

What I'm getting at is the fact that some tourists may hire a motorcycle, under the term moped, thinking that they do not require any form of licence to drive it. IMHO, this is a dangerous practice conducted by all concerned. I would like to see the motorcycle hire company/outlet/shop, ask to view the persons drivers licence as a prerequisite to hire.

Of course, for financial reasons this will never happen, and the financial onus in the event of a damage falls on the hirer...who generally has left their passport as a guarantee with the hire shop.

Your comment about mopeds in the UK is quite wrong, one of the more common ones was the Puch Maxi, for which a driving licence was certainly required.

From the DVLA website

Edited February 10, 2016 by Blue Muton

[thaiduncankk]

Ive said before you should be made to show you have travel insurance on entry no insurance no entry and if you get caught in an accident or fall ill and do not have it and you get found out make it an offence with a 10,000 baht fine for being so bloody stupid

Would certainly keep immigration busy, and with today's computer technology I am sure most people would arrive with falsified documents. How do you think all this could be possibly policed ?

[NamKangMan]

The problem is the tourists... not Thailand.

Insurance? No.

Experience of riding? No

Protective gear? No.

Riding in an unsafe manner? Yes.

It's clear to see who is at fault.

Does Phuket have baht buses? No.

Do transport operators on Phuket rip tourists off? Yes.

It's clear to see why she was even on a bike in the first place.

"The problem is the tourists... not Thailand." - no, the problem is Phuket has NO proper public transport, thus pushing people onto motorbikes.

[perdido]

Too bad she had the accident....hope she fully recovers and soon. But she "didn't forget" to get insurance....she just didn't want to pay for insurance. Too many young people always feel indestructible/think it will not happen to me.

...understandable that an old codger like me might feel like reneging over buying travel insurance as it costs an arm and a leg ( bit of an unfortunate expression to use , but there you go).......the cost for someone in mid 20s , I imagine is generally fairly innocuous.....

[perdido]

travel insurance in europe helps you out and pay.

She is form the uk.

Not understand that her parents not looked after her insurance when they gave the credit card.

they can blame themselves as well the girl.

besdie she was riding on the back ... So the driver is liable (too).

never the less hope she recovers quick.

...that's very big of you...

[tancred]

The private Thai hospitals are like vultures,waiting for helpless victim from farang land to enter their doors to stitch them up for every possible tablet,examination they can think up,and you are helpless once in their clutches.SO BEWARE,I paid 56.000 baht for two nights for no positive results.Not easy to get insurance when over 65.

[TEFLKrabi]

As usual with TVF readers, it's the fault of the girl of the bike for getting hit by a truck. Just for once, how about getting together and chasing down the driver and his company for dangerous driving!

[Bernie9366]

Parents of gap year students should wise up and purchase insurance for their offspring as a pre preemptive strike.

(An annual policy inc motorbikes & adventure sports being much cheaper than graphically highlighted in this example!)

That is exactly what we have done every time one of our three kids have traveled overseas. It`s only about $150 AUD and It`s worth every cent. Luckily nothing happened on their travels.

[crazydrummerpauly]

The problem is the tourists... not Thailand.

Insurance? No.

Experience of riding? No

Protective gear? No.

Riding in an unsafe manner? Yes.

It's clear to see who is at fault.

Oh it's clear who was at fault ? : "Natasha, an accountancy graduate from Maesteg, Wales, was left with a broken femur, a smashed kneecap, septicaemia and extensive blood and skin loss after the moped she was riding on the back of was hit by a truck driver." Not at all clear, not from this account.

[CliffH]

The UK government doesn't exactly encourage travellers to take out insurance by slapping 20% tax on all policies.

[topt]

you cannot get insurance to cover you in uk for more than 60 days when you are outside european union and most will only do 30 days , they always have in small print on the policy that you have to return to uk within a length of time if you get a 1 year policy if you dont return within a certain length of time say 60 days or 30 days then the policy is void , the insurance company love to take a ridiculous amount for the policy and then expect you to come back to uk within 30 days or 60 days then fly back out again which they know you will not do so they dont have to pay you !! but in this case the girl came for 9 months so cannot get insurance in uk for a long stretch like that , which is ridiculous this is because the longer you are out here in thailand the more chance that an accident will happen so the insurance companies in uk dont want to do it but they are ok to scam you out of about 200 pounds for a 1 year policy that does not cover you if your here longer than 60 days at a time AS USUAL ITS RIP OFF BRITAIN WHO DONT GIVE A DAM ABOUT ITS CITIZENS !!! SAME AS THE EMBASSY HERE !!

Wrong. You can get long stay policies for travel and working for up to 2 years. Try World Nomads or World Insure.

I have had 3 different company's insurance policies in the last 7 years or so. I suggest you check your facts before ranting in future.........

THIS IS FROM THE COMPANY WEBSITE YOU SAID WORLD NOMADS , AND ITS A GOOD JOB YOU DID NOT HAVE AN ACCIDENT TRY READING THE POLICY NEXT TIME AS I SAID BEFORE READ THE CONDITIONS YOU WERE NOT COVERED AS I SAID !!!!!!Add

Special conditions where applicable:

(a) You must be with a professional, qualified and licensed guide, instructor or operator

( you must have the appropriate certification or licence to do this sport or activity at home. If operating a motor vehicle the driver must have the appropriate valid UK licence for the machine;

© within 60 miles of a safe haven (a protected body of water used by marine craft for refuge from storms or heavy seas);

(d) Conventional skiing / snowboarding only. It is not a condition of cover that you ski or board with a guide, however, you must follow the International Ski Federation code or the resort regulations and we recommend that you do not venture into back country areas without taking local advice and appropriate rescue equipment;

(e) You must hold a British Sub Aqua Club certificate or Professional Association of Diving Instructors certificate or equivalent and follow the relevant Club or Association rules and guidelines at all times, or you must only dive under the constant supervision of a properly licensed diving school and follow their rules and instructions at all times.

Special exclusions where applicable:

(i) No cover for any competition, free-style skiing / snowboarding, ski/ snowboard jumping, ski-flying, ski / snowboard acrobatics, ski / snowboard stunting, or ski racing or national squad training, the use of skeletons

(ii) No cover for any unaccompanied dive, any dive in overhead environments, or any dive for gain or reward

(iii) No cover for free mountaineering, climbing in remote or inaccessible regions, exploratory expeditions and new routes, high altitude climbing over 6,000 metres

Your Trip

Destination(s) Thailand Start Date 12 Feb 2016 End Date 11 Feb 2017 Traveller age 29 Country of Residence United Kingdom

Quote Summary Plan Standard Base Policy £307.45 Footprints Donation £7.00

Total

£314.45GBP

Sport/Activity Name Premium (£) Motor biking - as a pillion passenger - under 125cc - (a) - on road only - no touring or where a motorbike is the main mode of transport Included xremove Motor biking - on road under 125cc - ( - No touring or where a motorbike is the main mode of transport - no personal liability cover Included xremove

TRY READING THE POLICY KNOWALL OR SHOULD I SAY NO NOTHING !!

Oh dear, where to start.........

Firstly I have removed some of the unnecessary info you copied to try and shorten the posting.

Secondly since you do not know my circumstances how could you have any idea what I was not covered for?

I was replying to your post which started -

you cannot get insurance to cover you in uk for more than 60 days when you are outside european union and most will only do 30 days........................................................

That is what I said was wrong and you have discovered that you can indeed get cover for a year or more. Nobody was talking about level of cover or what it did and did not cover. At the time I took it out it covered me adequately for what I needed. YMMV

Difficult to get ts and cs without doing a quote so not sure if this link will work but quick and easy to get a quote and go to the summary of cover - https://www.worldnomads.com/Document/OpenInsuranceRegulatoryWording?RegulatoryWordingTypeId=1&PlanId=7&ContentTypeId=3

Specifically re motorbike cover (which was not specified in your post) it says you are covered as standard for under 125cc and if you pay an additional premium for over 125cc with the special conditions you must wear a helmet and -

"You must have the appropriate certification or licence to do this sport or activity at home. If operating a motor vehicle the driver must have the appropriate valid UK licence for the machine"

Does not sound unreasonable to me?

Other providers who do long stay and cover motor cycling with conditions -

http://www.duinsure.com/travel_insurance/backpacker_travel_insurance - 5 days to 18 months

http://www.duinsure.com/information/sports_and_activities

https://www.worldwideinsure.com/ - covers from 3-18 monts on their long stay policy

Policy wording - https://www.worldwideinsure.com/policy-wordings/LA15.pdf (motor cycling limited to 14 days any trip).

Up to you if you want to ignore the facts and continue to vent (using so many capital letters......) but histrionics will only give you high blood pressure or the like

PS - it's Know Nothing by the way

[muffy]

Might not cover her her anyway , mopeds ?

[xerostar]

It is not just the young that think they have superhuman skills. There are thousands of old foreigners here chugging around on motorbikes and I might add have developed local ways.... no helmet, taking mad chances at U turns. Not stopping and looking at a junction just drive out, not checking over the shoulder on both sides before making a move left or right...the list goes on... and the death toll rises.

Heard yesterday of a foreigner hitting a pot hole at night. 2 broken wrists, a fractured skull and a bill for 350,000 baht.....10,000 U.S.

My global insurance for health and accidents is 440 pounds a year. Not 10,000 dollars or 35,000 pounds as in the case of this young girl.

Yes nice premium lonewolf99. Can you let the readers know what company is that policy with?

When you're over 70 as I am, most Insurance companies don't want to know you.

The others have extortionate premiums.

If you're not flush with cash, life is a huge gamble for the elderly, especially in Thailand.

[MaeJoMTB]

Part of the problem is the Thai hospitals ripping foreigners off.

A popular CM private hospital charges up to 15x more for a foreigner than for the same foreigner privately in a government hospital.

They are stealing form foreigners and foreigners insurance companies.

I can see the girl in the OP being charged 100k-200kbht for the work, but not 1.8M that's just fraud.

Edited February 10, 2016 by MaeJoMTB

[DavisH]

So what hospital was she sent to to rack up a 1.8M debt...even if it includes the flight back, it's very expensive. Private hospital?

For sure all farangs go immediately to a private hospital - and yes it's very expensive. Friend on mine racked up more than 200,000 baht for 3 days in ICU at Phuket International Hospital.

It may also be that emergency services would take a farang straight to a private hospital, even government hospitals can still serve their needs (and often be better in some cases). Once a colleague got admitted to a private hospital - no insurance too - our employer got him straight out to a government hospital as the fee was 30K a day in the icu.

[sawadee1947]

3 mistakes obviously..............

1. no travel insurance............I'm young and healthy....I don't need....save money

2. rent a moped......................oh, lovely....I never did it before in UK......freedom....I can everything, even drive a moped

3. wrong hospital....................probably a private one

[sawadee1947]

3 mistakes obviously..............

1. no travel insurance............I'm young and healthy....I don't need....save money

2. rent a moped......................oh, lovely....I never did it before in UK......freedom....I can everything, even drive a moped

3. wrong hospital....................probably a private one

[BeefSlapper]

travel insurance in UK is cheap

[stevenl]

You all go on about the insurance. Near 100% company's will not insure people on bikes especially in Asia because they know they can hire bikes any where. If you take out insurance read the small print. Bike accidents are not insured.

I wish you would all stop going on about it.

No western country will insure you, even for water sports.

You can bet that 99% of the riders who hire a scooter/motor bike do not have a bike license.

But I do agree if she was banged up from the rest by this truck the Police should have prosecuted the driver and the company should be forced to pay through their insurance, if they were insured.

It may have been cheaper for her or her parents to have spoken to a lawyer.

I hope she recovers fully.

I also thought that the PM had ordered an investigation on the private hospital charges.

That was another waste of time.

The part about no insurance covering motorbikes in Asia: nonsense. Also watersports are nearly always included in the standard coverage.

[cumgranosalum]

I think Brits are particularly susceptible to travelling without insurance as a lifetime of free healthcare at home lulls them into a false sense of security.

[stevenl]

Part of the problem is the Thai hospitals ripping foreigners off.

A popular CM private hospital charges up to 15x more for a foreigner than for the same foreigner privately in a government hospital.

They are stealing form foreigners and foreigners insurance companies.

I can see the girl in the OP being charged 100k-200kbht for the work, but not 1.8M that's just fraud.

That is not an example of a rip off

[cumgranosalum]

Part of the problem is the Thai hospitals ripping foreigners off.

A popular CM private hospital charges up to 15x more for a foreigner than for the same foreigner privately in a government hospital.

They are stealing form foreigners and foreigners insurance companies.

I can see the girl in the OP being charged 100k-200kbht for the work, but not 1.8M that's just fraud.

That is not an example of a rip off

how long was she in hospital for?

[robsamui]

Every time I've rented a car or motorbike in Thailand I was told it came with 'full insurance', whatever that means. So perhaps the person she rented from should be sued for telling lies, fraud, or something. As for the driver that hit her, while there is little chance of a court finding him responsible (afterall, she is a rich farang), they should sue him in court, provided he did not flee the scene of the accident which is so common here. This is a dangerous country in many ways. Can't trust a soul, can't believe what you hear, can't rely on much...........

Quite evidently you have not the faintest idea how the courts work in Thailand.

"Sue them" for this and "Sue them" for that . . . and the court - HA! the court! finding the truck driver responsible!

The police would have allocated responsibility on the spot at the time of the accident. That is what they are for.. End of story.

In the event that the girl who was injured - or her family - wanted to try to make a civil case out of it (and I admit that I'm not even sure if that's possible) then it would take years to get to a court hearing and drag out with lawyers fees to be probably even more expensive that the hospital treatment. And then, after two years or so, if the truck driver could even be found, no witnesses can appear in Thai courts and give evidence or be questioned; only written statements are permitted.

So the original policeman will submit the report that he made at the scene of the accident, with his judgement of who was to blame. The court will support him, and that will be the end of it .Should the truck driver have been deemed responsible by the police (if he can be found after all this time) and the court agrees additional compensation, then the question arises - how can he pay it when he has no money or assets?

Whatever then happens (small monthly payments or a short time in jail) will be of no use to the girl's family, trying to do all of this long distance and being bled dry by a Thai lawyer anyway. The courts and Justice system here is nothing at all in any way similar to Western nations.

Edited February 10, 2016 by robsamui

[hobobo]

So what hospital was she sent to to rack up a 1.8M debt...even if it includes the flight back, it's very expensive. Private hospital?

If she went to a Government hospital, she'd be an amputee a day after her accident. It all depends on how much you value your legs, arms, etc...

[Ulic]

Was the truck driver cited in the accident? I do remember reading about the accident but

can't remember if the driver was caught/identified/charged with causing the accident.

As for the insurance ranting going on, insurance companies make money by not

paying claims, paying them costs them money. Very important, to read the fine

print and not misrepresent the facts. Some questions are not clear and if you answer

incorrectly your coverage is nullified.

Example. Do you have high blood pressure? You may answer no, because you take

medication to control your blood pressure. You would have answered incorrectly.

If you answered yes you would pay a very high premium, and possibly still not be covered

for heart attack, stroke etc.

Also most companies require you to contact them before treatment. If you arrive at

the hospital unconscious you are fine. But if you do not contact them when you come

around immediately and if you wait 2-3 days your claim will probably be denied.

If it is not deemed emergency treatment and you are fit to fly, they expect you to return

home for treatment. Really important to deal with an insurance agent and not a

travel agent if you want to make sure you are covered. Many, many, people buy insurance

and are not even really covered but because nothing happens and there is no claim

they never find out this is the case. Insurance companies and banks, the biggest scammers

there are.

[hobobo]

It is not just the young that think they have superhuman skills. There are thousands of old foreigners here chugging around on motorbikes and I might add have developed local ways.... no helmet, taking mad chances at U turns. Not stopping and looking at a junction just drive out, not checking over the shoulder on both sides before making a move left or right...the list goes on... and the death toll rises.

Heard yesterday of a foreigner hitting a pot hole at night. 2 broken wrists, a fractured skull and a bill for 350,000 baht.....10,000 U.S.

My global insurance for health and accidents is 440 pounds a year. Not 10,000 dollars or 35,000 pounds as in the case of this young girl.

Maybe if you're 20 or 25. I am older, and have a cover similar to yours, but pay £1200 a year. Still, I think it's worth every penny!

[MaeJoMTB]

If she went to a Government hospital, she'd be an amputee a day after her accident. It all depends on how much you value your legs, arms, etc...

Off Topic now,

But that just isn't true.

I've found the government hospitals to give the same quality of medical services as the private hospitals.

Often with the same doctors, but at a fraction of the price.

Not to mention, this same private hospital in CM, I've seen completely screw up 2 broken legs.

One belonging to a ThaiVisa poster who is a a wheelchair 6 months after he should be walking around.

One belonging to a young Russian lady, where they seem to have joined the leg with a twist, she'll never walk straight again.

[Suradit69]

The problem is the tourists... not Thailand.

Insurance? No.

Experience of riding? No

Protective gear? No.

Riding in an unsafe manner? Yes.

It's clear to see who is at fault.

And yet there was an uproar on TV when it was proposed that arriving tourist pay for mandatory insurance.

[movsrus]

This is but another example why the Thai government should institute an insurance tax on all foreigners who come into the country. Say it was 300 baht per person. That would be enough to offset these big medical bills as most tourist won't have to use the coverage. For those unfortunate few who have trouble here, the insurance will preclude massive charges for hospitalization and repatriation.

While I am not a fan of the Thai government putting taxes on foreigners, I would support a tourist tax in this case to cover costs of medical emergencies for people who come here and end up in an accident. Perhaps it was not her fault this accident happened but if the Thai driver at fault has no insurance she is still responsible for covering the costs of her hospitalization. If the Thai driver has no assets and cannot be held liable in court, it is still her problem and in this case it results in her parents having a major debt to help her out. Young people think that accidents only happen to others- in this case she was very wrong.