Do You Forget How Good You Have It Here?

[sting01]

Dear Mig,

First of all, I do not flight, I am a backpacker, not a bonafide tourist, so I will walk ... Long road indeed, but I am sure I will enjoy it.

Second, Liberty is not Freedom, my broken english do not allow me to be more precise (still I do have problems while trying to explain conceptual ideas, but I am sure a shoot to cambridge dictionary will explain what is different).

About anarchy, and people who buy their own anarchy, well maybe we should let an expert (the little black duck in that case) answer us :

Big brother is looking over your shoulder constantly..Difficulty in doing Simple thing like opening a bank acc.. or putting up a garden shed just two thing that spring to mind..Local Govt,State Govt and Federal Govt.. Radar Speed traps,DUI cant go out for a night out..And the cops wouldnt tollerate half the things you get away with here..

I will not comment that any society have to have laws or rules, and without them it's anarchy, and then the law of the strongest(richest? wealtiest?)

You say :

---- the kind of democracy where minorities are still treated as at best 'migrants'? after having been born there?

Are you spoken of the hillstribes? Because if you do not know, Zidane got his french ID long time before to be famous.

Should I invite you to speak about what you know, and not about what you watched at foxnews while having your usual hangover?

--- hmmm would that qualify as racist remark I wonder...what does your constitution say? it allows you to make general defamatory remark like that about another sovereign country? perhaps we need to consult it.

Well, first let me precise my constitution do not care much about what a citizen adult can say about another country while living in that country. Is it racist to point out my country exist since 1500 (or 1600 years)? I do not think so. Does a chinese people who say China exist since 2500 years can be caled racist? Or a japanese stating the imperial family is the longuest dynasty existing do a racist comment? I point out on the fact we daily hear about the traditional culture of LOS, and I simply compare with what is used to be called traditional in my own country (it was the OP question I think, to compare how good it is here and how bad it is back home ... or am I confuse?)

Anyway, it's my opinion, smile, I just expressed it. Notice, at the opposite of you, I am not trying to make you change yours. You are happy here, great. That isthe strenght of human race, we have diversity of opinion. I think also, about constitution, there is some remote countries who have the right to express an opinion protected by their constitution : first amendment I think!

Or maybe, are you unsure of your choice? unconfortable with them and need to have a crown (a group of people like cheerleaders, I am unsure about the speling of crown/crow) who make you feel warm and who say you did the right choice (exactly like just after you bought a timeshare in venezuela, the seller make you feel smart and wise to have spend that money for this time share). Ichoosed alone to come here, I have my opinion (that is personal and maybe stupid) on my own, and if it make people unhappy I can't help

[MiG16]

eventually, in more to be pissed off, bitter and nut, I am also french. But it's not related, I do know some french people who positively love Thailand and who positively hate Voltaire, Racine .....

Allow me to re formulate : Thailand is the second best third worl country where I lived during the last 25 years. The number was Ivory coast. But , as Ivory Coast , it's still a developping country, assuming you weight a country not with only a city, or some Hi So citisen of this country, but in it's whole (64 millions of people in Thailand, with the average earming of ....)

WIKIPEDIA descrition of Third World: Third World is a term first coined in 1952 by French demographer Alfred Sauvy on the model of Sieyès's declaration concerning the Third Estate during the French Revolution:The Third World later became a synonym of these nations that aligned themselves with neither the West nor with the Soviet Bloc during the Cold War.

The use of the terms First, the Second, and the Third World is a rough, and it's safe to say, outdated model of the geopolitical world from the time of the cold war. --from nationsonline

also notice the list of LDCs according to the UN...yes based on many characteristics, including the Human Development Index you spoke of...

http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/leas...d_countries.htm

Thailand does not appear on that list.

based on other criteria....

these include press freedom...and did you know that France has fallen on this index? sure it still ranks high...but mind you FALLING....... ” France (30th) also slipped, largely because of searches of media offices, interrogations of journalists and introduction of new press offences." and yes i do realise thailand is somewhere much further down the index.

in terms of your question about thailand's population and average earning....

Thailand South-East Asia US$ 8 542 GNI (thats Gross National Income per capita per year) ranked at 121 from total of 192 countries. Id say thats not doing toooooooo badly. sure there are still poor people. sure there are still lots to be done. but does that qualify as reason to be throwing thrashing comments about the country? hmmmm

but anyway.....whats my point? hmmm I guess Im trying to show I can do internet research???

the neighbours have just turned on the most annoying music! whats my choice..... move house...instal more soundproofing around, close all my windows...or go out for a walk and hope when Im back they have had enough of their music....or walk over to them and either politely ask them to turn it down....or tell them their music is too loud and encroaching on my private space!

choices choices.....or I could do nothing about it and just sit here and whinge too

[MiG16]

sting ..the racist remark wasnt referring to the fact of how old france exist as a country

it was the deragatory comments you made about thailand.

anyway, like you said......its all a matter of opinion, u are entitled to have yours

I have mine, and sure definitely do not appreciate people coming to my country to dish out only negative remarks. theres always good and bad to any place, any person.

enough said on this.

have a good weekend.

[meemiathai]

Deragatory comments made about thailand is the norm in western countries. So nothing special.

[Little Black Duck]

Dear Mig,

First of all, I do not flight, I am a backpacker, not a bonafide tourist, so I will walk ... Long road indeed, but I am sure I will enjoy it.

Second, Liberty is not Freedom, my broken english do not allow me to be more precise (still I do have problems while trying to explain conceptual ideas, but I am sure a shoot to cambridge dictionary will explain what is different).

About anarchy, and people who buy their own anarchy, well maybe we should let an expert (the little black duck in that case) answer us :

Big brother is looking over your shoulder constantly..Difficulty in doing Simple thing like opening a bank acc.. or putting up a garden shed just two thing that spring to mind..Local Govt,State Govt and Federal Govt.. Radar Speed traps,DUI cant go out for a night out..And the cops wouldnt tollerate half the things you get away with here..

I will not comment that any society have to have laws or rules, and without them it's anarchy, and then the law of the strongest(richest? wealtiest?)

You say :

---- the kind of democracy where minorities are still treated as at best 'migrants'? after having been born there?

Are you spoken of the hillstribes? Because if you do not know, Zidane got his french ID long time before to be famous.

Should I invite you to speak about what you know, and not about what you watched at foxnews while having your usual hangover?

--- hmmm would that qualify as racist remark I wonder...what does your constitution say? it allows you to make general defamatory remark like that about another sovereign country? perhaps we need to consult it.

Well, first let me precise my constitution do not care much about what a citizen adult can say about another country while living in that country. Is it racist to point out my country exist since 1500 (or 1600 years)? I do not think so. Does a chinese people who say China exist since 2500 years can be caled racist? Or a japanese stating the imperial family is the longuest dynasty existing do a racist comment? I point out on the fact we daily hear about the traditional culture of LOS, and I simply compare with what is used to be called traditional in my own country (it was the OP question I think, to compare how good it is here and how bad it is back home ... or am I confuse?)

Anyway, it's my opinion, smile, I just expressed it. Notice, at the opposite of you, I am not trying to make you change yours. You are happy here, great. That isthe strenght of human race, we have diversity of opinion. I think also, about constitution, there is some remote countries who have the right to express an opinion protected by their constitution : first amendment I think!

Or maybe, are you unsure of your choice? unconfortable with them and need to have a crown (a group of people like cheerleaders, I am unsure about the speling of crown/crow) who make you feel warm and who say you did the right choice (exactly like just after you bought a timeshare in venezuela, the seller make you feel smart and wise to have spend that money for this time share). Ichoosed alone to come here, I have my opinion (that is personal and maybe stupid) on my own, and if it make people unhappy I can't help

Is it only the French who are paranoid about Anarchy??

I think Aust is Over Governed that was my point if you took the whole comment in text..You have to have rules.. I lived by them there, I just thought they went too far..ask any other thinking Australian.. unlike most people who protest on TV I comply with the rules here..

I dont claim to be an expert..Am I not allowed to have an opinion ???

[suiging]

In Hong Kong, I get so tense I want to kill everybody.

In the UK, I get so paranoid I think everybody wants to kill me.

In the LOS, I drink buckets of Chang, chill out and don't think about much at all, perfect.

Edited October 22, 2006 by suiging

[kayo]

@suiging, :D

[JacknDanny]

Having lived in Thailand for many years now, sometimes I forget how good it really is.

Do you find that after a few years you forget how good things are and start finding faults with everyday living in Thailand? Once the good becomes 'commonplace', it's not so good anymore.

I'm reflecting a bit on my life here after 5000 [negative(and some positive )] posts.

Certain aspects of Thai culture and foreigners living here really get my blood boiling – but on reflection, it’s really a weakness in myself – self-righteous anger and lack of acceptance, which are subtle and perverse forms of self-satisfaction, which allows me to remain comfortably unaware of my own defects, of which there are many .

N N

Great post. When I get in the what the F### mode, I find going over to Cambodia for the weekend, makes me realise how lucky we are over here!!!

[sting01]

It was a long answer, but certainly useless, and pointless for the main stream of the TV member. So I deleted it.

On the other hand, I am willing to continue the conversation in pvt with MIG19 and precise why I used the wording I choosed.

And nothing was Deragatory in my comments. Sorry if you feel it

Edited October 22, 2006 by sting01

[sting01]

Useless and pointless, remove by myself

Edited October 22, 2006 by sting01

[GuestHouse]

Once again and as if to demonstrate the golden rule about these these 'Opinions about Thailand' threads, the commentry spirals downwards to abusing people who hold a different view.

[GuestHouse]

^ To be fair to Sting01, being French he is raised and educated in a different 'culture of society' from that we in the UK/US/Australia (The Anglo Saxon societal model), to understand that you'd have to either have lived in France for a significant period or perhaps have read and understood the list of philosophers/authors he gave in his assessment of things he misses in Thai culture – I honestly believe you'd have at the very least need to have read Voltaire and Rousseau before making any meaningful comment on French society and values.

Failing that knee jerk jingoism is always an easy option.

To read Sting’s post again you’ll find he is saying he misses what he regards as positive things about his culture. Others are saying they don’t miss negative things.

These are simply different views and not deserving of personal abuse.

But sadly that is what we come to expect.

[swain]

Having lived in Thailand for many years now, sometimes I forget how good it really is.

Do you find that after a few years you forget how good things are and start finding faults with everyday living in Thailand? Once the good becomes 'commonplace', it's not so good anymore.

I'm reflecting a bit on my life here after 5000 [negative(and some positive )] posts.

Certain aspects of Thai culture and foreigners living here really get my blood boiling – but on reflection, it’s really a weakness in myself – self-righteous anger and lack of acceptance, which are subtle and perverse forms of self-satisfaction, which allows me to remain comfortably unaware of my own defects, of which there are many .

N N

Good question as I see so many that seem so unhappy being here. I go back to the USA every 6 months NOT BY CHOICE and I am renewed with the feeling of how good we have it here. I am here for good. Cheers

[lannarebirth]

Thailand does have its own faults, but i know that my life here in Thailand right now is better than my life in the U.S.A.

Well, that's the most constructive comment I've heard from you Gabe. Maybe you've gained the ability to accept the things you cannot change. I hope your life keeps getting better and better.

[MiG16]

^ To be fair to Sting01, being French he is raised and educated in a different 'culture of society' from that we in the UK/US/Australia (The Anglo Saxon societal model), to understand that you'd have to either have lived in France for a significant period or perhaps have read and understood the list of philosophers/authors he gave in his assessment of things he misses in Thai culture – I honestly believe you'd have at the very least need to have read Voltaire and Rousseau before making any meaningful comment on French society and values.

These are simply different views and not deserving of personal abuse.

But sadly that is what we come to expect.

one -- without claiming to have any knowledge of french culture or values, I have also not made any comment about their culture.

the only point i made was perhaps he should refrain from being too negative about thai culture without knowing it too? and yes sure people have a right to express their unhappiness with a situation, and as he had already mentioned, he decided to not continue to live here. fine by me. live here dont live here, its not really an issue. but those that are here, and if you post comments that to me sounds like...the holier than thou message, then you will also hear what I feel about it

BUT I believe I have at no point insulted anyone

[MiG16]

NOW.....

Im moving on...to the topic where I AM an expert

where to eat out in bangkok

cyas

[AlexLah]

Having travelled and work in some 60 countries I can say that every country I have been I could always mention the good and bad things.

The biggest frustration for me while living in Thailand is that I cannot speak or understand Thai.

Yes some basics I know such as: two marlboro red please and where is whatever (mostly the toilet).

So not being able to understand the language is the biggest frustration for me and I know I have to try to learn it but since I travel around Asia about 35 to 40 weeks a year it will be difficult.

When I am abroad I have to see customers, well you know it. So learning myself Thai in the evenings not work.

OK I really like the Thai people who most of times always welcome you and ask to join dinner lunch breakfastnwhatever time it is, eating is always welcomed and during eating we have talks about anything. (with help of translator).

For sure I could have a more comfie life in Holland and better pay.

But I want to help Asian people gain more knowledge in my company and bizz so that the sales in Asia can grow and as a result we can hire more people.

That is why I am here.

Alex

[sting01]

^ To be fair to Sting01, being French he is raised and educated in a different 'culture of society' from that we in the UK/US/Australia (The Anglo Saxon societal model), to understand that you'd have to either have lived in France for a significant period or perhaps have read and understood the list of philosophers/authors he gave in his assessment of things he misses in Thai culture – I honestly believe you'd have at the very least need to have read Voltaire and Rousseau before making any meaningful comment on French society and values.

These are simply different views and not deserving of personal abuse.

But sadly that is what we come to expect.

one -- without claiming to have any knowledge of french culture or values, I have also not made any comment about their culture.

the only point i made was perhaps he should refrain from being too negative about thai culture without knowing it too? and yes sure people have a right to express their unhappiness with a situation, and as he had already mentioned, he decided to not continue to live here. fine by me. live here dont live here, its not really an issue. but those that are here, and if you post comments that to me sounds like...the holier than thou message, then you will also hear what I feel about it

BUT I believe I have at no point insulted anyone

Who say I do not understand thai culture? Are you more expert than I am, or are you more thai than I am (my grand grand father was thai!).

Negative? Is it to be negative to call a black cat a black cat, or to say for exemple it's not possible to find 50 consecutive meters of flat streets to walk in Bangkok, or is it negative to point out the local minorities (hills tribes) still are citizens of no man's land .... Or is it simply harsh and dirty facts that we prefer avoid in any conversation with or related to our host? Then a question follow : Am I a guest or a migrant/tourist? If a guest , I will not even see those dirty facts. If am a migrant or a tourist, I will report them as fact without any political comment (politic of thailand is reserved to thai people, as in any country). Anyway if I think something and if I can give coherent proofs o the reasons of my thought, why should I have to advertise the opposite? I am not a public girl wo call handsum guy a old man of 70 simply because she hope to get some money(true in any country).

Liberty = you do anytig you want unless you cross my own liberty. Likewise for me.

Freedom = do anything you want unless it's expressly forbidden.

Anarchy = do anythin anywhere at any moment you like.

I choosed long time ago Liberty over freedom.

Edited October 22, 2006 by sting01

[terry57]

Neeranam , is all your problem an identity crisis ?

We all have them , but I try to keep mine down to one a day.

If you exceed this you should seek help.

Recommend a brown bottle with an elephant on the label.

But not before nightfall.

KO you have changed into a philosopher!

Is it the mescal or the stuff in the ciggies ?

Tell me , it might work for me !

Also , KO , I have really tried to follow your post (follow = understand).

I have not totally succeeded (being an ungifted pillock trying to follow a

gifted pillock) but the following editting might help us mere morons better

understand your words.

Nee, you seem mostly aware of the skills in drop the word "in" which is superflous which you "lack" -comma is better for want of a better word - ditto in order to be content living in LOS.

Acceptance certainly is a factor, but that is the case in all countries, in all cultures, with all peoples, with wives and hubbies, with children and parents, with all things, and even when dealing with a temeramental temperamental internet connections a should be followed by the singuler noun not the plural

At the end of the day, frustrations can be allowed to exist in any place "can be allowed" is far too passive , how about dropping it. Then the sentence makes sense. . Where do you feel they are minimal/more manageable.

If that is Thailand, than perhaps you've made a good choice.

Like any relationship: Does the good outweigh the bad?

Is the bad tolerable, in order to keep hold of the good.

And above all, have you found yourself in a society where you have grown, expanded, as a person, more so than you would have done staying at "home".

As with Farangsay, "home" is more of a concept to me than a reality. I'm a "bloody foreigner" wherever I go. Some places treat me less bloody though.

edit: BTW, 5000 posts...

Hope this helps

After so many Changs it took me a while to get it right.

Yours a "bloody foreignor"

i think it's time for you to go beddy byes my friend as it was a waste of time correcting kayo's post.

and kayo,

how about sticking with the jokes my man.

it's just not you when you try to be sensible.

[MiG16]

Who say I do not understand thai culture? Are you more expert than I am, or are you more thai than I am (my grand grand father was thai!).

ok ok yes I did say I had moved on...but couldnt help myself.....

sting....i guess i can say i am MORE thai than you. cos guess what...I AM Thai havent u been reading anything Ive typed here????

[nostrel]

ask the same question to the average thai person and he or she would laugh and suck thru his teeth and given the chance jump on the first plane out of the place .so i guess its all relative

[kayo]

Having travelled and work in some 60 countries I can say that every country I have been I could always mention the good and bad things.

The biggest frustration for me while living in Thailand is that I cannot speak or understand Thai.

Yes some basics I know such as: two marlboro red please and where is whatever (mostly the toilet).

So not being able to understand the language is the biggest frustration for me and I know I have to try to learn it but since I travel around Asia about 35 to 40 weeks a year it will be difficult.

When I am abroad I have to see customers, well you know it. So learning myself Thai in the evenings not work.

OK I really like the Thai people who most of times always welcome you and ask to join dinner lunch breakfastnwhatever time it is, eating is always welcomed and during eating we have talks about anything. (with help of translator).

For sure I could have a more comfie life in Holland and better pay.

But I want to help Asian people gain more knowledge in my company and bizz so that the sales in Asia can grow and as a result we can hire more people.

That is why I am here.

Alex

Do you know, all the time we've sort of mutually known eachother, I was under the impression you were actually Thai, Alex...

Where you from mate?

If you consider that making 5,000 posts on an open forum such as this is something of a landmark in your life, I am concerned for you.

I doubt anyone here is qualified to help you come to terms with whatever issues you have, but best of luck in coming to terms with whatever is troubling you...

Noel (gallagher? )

I've (sort of, through this forum) known Neeranam for quite some time now, and NO! it's not about how many posts he's posted. It's just a very natural sentiment he's expressing, that many of us go through at some point or another.

Often our moments of weakness intrude upon us at random times throughout the day. And often we bypass them and carry on with our lives. Sometimes, we happen to be online on a friendly chat forum where we have many friends, as such a moment hits us, and then we choose to share some thoughts that otherwise we would repress (and often drink away) .

So, forgive yourself Noel, if you are a person with no weaknesses, for the rest of us do sometimes feel a little funny about things.

And it's pretty darn good to have a sociable place to share that with others who have things in common.

[sting01]

Who say I do not understand thai culture? Are you more expert than I am, or are you more thai than I am (my grand grand father was thai!).

ok ok yes I did say I had moved on...but couldnt help myself.....

sting....i guess i can say i am MORE thai than you. cos guess what...I AM Thai havent u been reading anything Ive typed here????

Well it's supposed to be a forum for farangs, where farangs can speak safely about their problems.

So if you are genuily thai (born in thailand from thai parents, and raise in thailand) I do not see the point of you to be here ... look like censorship to me at least ... Like I am able to tell my mind only if it's good things ... Do not worry, I can also give a full bag of bad thing about my own country (you named one). To be objective is a duty, because we are objective we will be able to make a difference. You love your country, so be objective, be like a chessplayer and develop your own intellectual honesty, and you will make a difference for your country (I already did for mine 25 years ago). But if we are not objective, we will simply miss the capacity to make our country better, we will simply fall in a dream related to our supposed greatness, the (in)famous good old time (who was in fact not that good, but it's a dream).

Anyway you missed the real point : people have reasons to be here. Mines are quite simple : my main competitors are indians or chinese(cost reasons); also in my familly you have to proove yourself abroad before to be able to claim anything at home. So to be myself competitive (economically speaking) I had to relocate in a place where I can have the infra structure allowing me to work, where I will not be bothered by civil war or military junta, where I will be able to build my own legacy (read create a firm).

Choices were quite limitate : EU or North America (US or Canada) were obviously not an option, Africa was untill a recent date, so stay only SEA. Cambodia is not a valid option (too much problems), Malaysia could be, but having spend long years in muslim countries (algeria, lebanon,arabia,iraq) I did not wished to to go in another one. Burma is out of my taste, as a former officer I do consider as a disgrace this military junta (I speak about Burma). So my choice was btw Sillypoor, Laos and Thailand. Having the love of my life living in thailand, the final choice was quite easy.

But during the last 18 month :

1) My gf passed away, and I discovered at this time there is still people who can not accept interracial relationship. I was almost banned from the funerals. I precise those people are Hi So thai chinese people (really Hi So).

2) The economical situation was not going in the right way, for me at least. 1$ = 41 bht was great for me, 1$ = 37 bht is hel_l for me.

3) The way to be able to invest, and then keep your investment for yourself is almost impossible WITHOUT cheating the law. Sorry, but in my culture laws have to be respected , maybe venerated when you are a foreigner.

4) It became more and more difficult to handle the visa problem AND the right to stay problem (the fact to have to go every month, or every 3 month is a huge pain in term of time and money).

5) the fact people here prefer the appearances than(to???) the reality, with an increase amongst the years I spend here also made my relation with this country sharper.

That is personal, personal situation, personal feelings, personal life, and personal thought.

What I do believe is simple : Thailand and thai people deserve better. They deserve better and more accurate educational system, something where moral, rigor and love of well made work is teach(taught???). They deserve KRU and not AJARN (as thai I suppose you will get the difference). They deserve well thinking policies made to improve the country on the long run. They deserve to have an economy that will help people to get a real better life (owning or not a cellphone is not what made your life better or not, having a real job who make oyu proud and make you feel you are participating to the wealth of your country make you life better). They deserve to leave this nice dream where the farang will always come to support. They simply deserve to BE and not to SEEMS. They deserve to understand migrants are not guest, but people willing to invest NOT only their money (I did) but also their will/gutts in this country.I never felt I was a guest coming to share a Shinga with Somchai (name of my first boss), but I always acted as a migrant, being here to make foreign currencies coming to this country on a regular basis and in an amount enought to not only be usefull for me, but for the collaborators I had.

I do (did) not issue deregatory statements, I simply give(d) facts. Or what seems to me to be facts.

Bottom line, thanks to have remind us Alfred Sauvy (who was once my professor), by so you demostrate another of my point, the one related to culture. Anyway wiki is an encyclopedia, so EVEN if you read ALL related to that subject (obviously you did not do), the info given will be only incomplete. The definition of third world is quite different, based simply at the time of A.Sauvy on the repartition of the natural ressources (RICH as USA, SU, Central Africa Republic .... and POOR as FRANCE, GERMANY, SWISS ....) and industrial transformation capacity (RICH as USA, SU, GERMANY,FRANCE, UK.... POOR as Central Africa Republic, Thailand). By so Third world design a country with huge natural ressources (exportation) but with little (compared with USA or UK) transformation industry. Not deregatory at all. Right now, it seems the definition as changed and is based on the PNB (or Gross interior revenue ...) because industries moved to other countries and were replaced by Services industries (that is the industries actually that yield the most benefits). 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4 th world are economical classifcations, not at all political.It was an abuse made in the 60'and 70' by the political people, but it was not intended to be politic at all (it's an abuse similar to the promise made by the actual US president to Turkey they will be allowed to enter in the EU ).

Anyway I repeat I am ready to continue this intereting conversation IN PRIVATE. But as I am french, and as I am from a province well know to produce stubborn people, I will stand by my idea in the main forum if you prefer to continnue the discussion here

[rocky]

Too Much of a good thing is a bad thing. With Thailand that is the problem, many of us here do not need to work. Spend our days, weeks, months, years just chilling and living life the way we choose. No real pressure, no real problems, unless we make them.

In the end we take this new way of life as normal, which infact it is. But it is along way form our forma normal life. One of my friends has lived here in Thailand for many years, though he has to return to the UK every three months. He will tell you the second his flight touches down at London Heathrow to the second he lands back in the land of the smiles he is miserable. He hates having to return to the UK even for 5 days. This for him is a big wake up call and reminds him how fortunate he is to be able to live in Thailand with a very comfortable life. And every time he returns he reminds me too.

The more you get in life the more you require. But how can we get it any better than this.

The cost of living makes it affordable to an otherwise miserable life in the west.

Thai culture has its positives and negatives for a westerner living here. But by far more positives. This country is very excepting of of us, often not looking twice. We would not be able to live in the west they way we do here. The pressure from society would not allow it. But Thailand quiet often doesn’t look twice. Unless you break the law….

Personally I do not miss them cold winter months,,, on no

What once was a dream “Living in the land of the smiles”, in the end becomes reality and the dream is long since gone.

[Donz]

ask the same question to the average thai person and he or she would laugh and suck thru his teeth and given the chance jump on the first plane out of the place .so i guess its all relative

But we are not asking them, and it wouldnt be because they hate the place too

[Neeranam]

What I do believe is simple : Thailand and thai people deserve better. They deserve better and more accurate educational system, something where moral, rigor and love of well made work is teach(taught???). They deserve KRU and not AJARN (as thai I suppose you will get the difference). They deserve well thinking policies made to improve the country on the long run. They deserve to have an economy that will help people to get a real better life (owning or not a cellphone is not what made your life better or not, having a real job who make oyu proud and make you feel you are participating to the wealth of your country make you life better). They deserve to leave this nice dream where the farang will always come to support. They simply deserve to BE and not to SEEMS. They deserve to understand migrants are not guest, but people willing to invest NOT only their money (I did) but also their will/gutts in this country.I never felt I was a guest coming to share a Shinga with Somchai (name of my first boss), but I always acted as a migrant, being here to make foreign currencies coming to this country on a regular basis and in an amount enought to not only be usefull for me, but for the collaborators I had.

Interesting, although nothing to do with the OP.

I wholey agree about the KRU and AJARN thing. I'm not Thai but know what you mean - there are too many farang calling themselves AJARN, without knowing what it means. KRU really means to teach and take care of the pupil not just in the subject at hand, but in all matters, like you would your own children. There are so many piss heads posing as 'ajarn', I know I did for years! whilst pissing it up and whoring every night. It's sad, but what do they expect for the money they offer.

Noel (gallagher? )

I've (sort of, through this forum) known Neeranam for quite some time now, and NO! it's not about how many posts he's posted. It's just a very natural sentiment he's expressing, that many of us go through at some point or another.

Often our moments of weakness intrude upon us at random times throughout the day. And often we bypass them and carry on with our lives. Sometimes, we happen to be online on a friendly chat forum where we have many friends, as such a moment hits us, and then we choose to share some thoughts that otherwise we would repress (and often drink away) .

Of course Kayo, buddy Good post. Who gives a toss about number of posts - in actaul fact it's embarassing - shows how little work I've done in the past couple of years. Repressing thouhts is not good, drinking them away is the luxury I no longer have.

I hate to hear the farang saying, "they can't do this to me, do you know what would happen in United Farangland if they did this?". Quite simply, I have started a new life in a country, which will never accept me as one of them, even if I pass a degree in Thai, become a monk, or have Toxin's daughter as a "mia noi".

I have to chill out and adjust certain ideas and attitudes. I must remember that this is not my home country, and therefore has different ways of doing things. Christ, that is one of the reasons I love it here. I used to want them to keep doing the things I liked and stop doing the things I didn't like. What a shity attitude!

Realise what I can change and what I can't. Don't let the things that you can't get on top of you, they're not worth it. Once you have done this, weigh up the pros and cons of living in a new land and decide if it is for me or not. I have not been sentenced to live in Thailand, it is my choice.

Some things like double pricing are the Thai way an I sometimes think I should simply respect their decision - when I do this I usually see that they have a valid reason for doing something that thought 'racist' or unfair.

It's my fear of being take advantage of that I have to address. "can't have them Thais getting the better of ME, the almighty!

Edited October 23, 2006 by Neeranam

[davidjtayler]

What I do believe is simple : Thailand and thai people deserve better. They deserve better and more accurate educational system, something where moral, rigor and love of well made work is teach(taught???). They deserve KRU and not AJARN (as thai I suppose you will get the difference). They deserve well thinking policies made to improve the country on the long run. They deserve to have an economy that will help people to get a real better life (owning or not a cellphone is not what made your life better or not, having a real job who make oyu proud and make you feel you are participating to the wealth of your country make you life better). They deserve to leave this nice dream where the farang will always come to support. They simply deserve to BE and not to SEEMS. They deserve to understand migrants are not guest, but people willing to invest NOT only their money (I did) but also their will/gutts in this country.I never felt I was a guest coming to share a Shinga with Somchai (name of my first boss), but I always acted as a migrant, being here to make foreign currencies coming to this country on a regular basis and in an amount enought to not only be usefull for me, but for the collaborators I had.

Interesting, although nothing to do with the OP.

I wholey agree about the KRU and AJARN thing. I'm not Thai but know what you mean - there are too many farang calling themselves AJARN, without knowing what it means. KRU really means to teach and take care of the pupil not just in the subject at hand, but in all matters, like you would your own children. There are so many piss heads posing as 'ajarn', I know I did for years! whilst pissing it up and whoring every night. It's sad, but what do they expect for the money they offer.

Noel (gallagher? )

I've (sort of, through this forum) known Neeranam for quite some time now, and NO! it's not about how many posts he's posted. It's just a very natural sentiment he's expressing, that many of us go through at some point or another.

Often our moments of weakness intrude upon us at random times throughout the day. And often we bypass them and carry on with our lives. Sometimes, we happen to be online on a friendly chat forum where we have many friends, as such a moment hits us, and then we choose to share some thoughts that otherwise we would repress (and often drink away) .

Of course Kayo, buddy Good post. Who gives a toss about number of posts - in actaul fact it's embarassing - shows how little work I've done in the past couple of years. Repressing thouhts is not good, drinking them away is the luxury I no longer have.

I hate to hear the farang saying, "they can't do this to me, do you know what would happen in United Farangland if they did this?". Quite simply, I have started a new life in a country, which will never accept me as one of them, even if I pass a degree in Thai, become a monk, or have Toxin's daughter as a "mia noi".

I have to chill out and adjust certain ideas and attitudes. I must remember that this is not my home country, and therefore has different ways of doing things. Christ, that is one of the reasons I love it here. I used to want them to keep doing the things I liked and stop doing the things I didn't like. What a shity attitude!

Realise what I can change and what I can't. Don't let the things that you can't get on top of you, they're not worth it. Once you have done this, weigh up the pros and cons of living in a new land and decide if it is for me or not. I have not been sentenced to live in Thailand, it is my choice.

Some things like double pricing are the Thai way an I sometimes think I should simply respect their decision - when I do this I usually see that they have a valid reason for doing something that thought 'racist' or unfair.

It's my fear of being take advantage of that I have to address. "can't have them Thais getting the better of ME, the almighty!

Interesting post Neeranam .. I find that you very much have to adopt the 'go with the flow' attitude here .. otherwise youll end up banging your head against the proverbial wall and it will hurt after a while ...!

Its good once in a while to assess yourself and ask what am I doing here and is it really that good (wherever you are) ... reality check to keep the feet on the ground.

[Donz]

what gets me arethe people who live in thailand who hate the place, hate thai's and thne get married to one and complain about there family, complain about what she does but will still choose to be with her and live there.

Ofcourse some people will have no choice as they might of been sent there from the company they work for.

But majority can leave but wont and just be complaining about everything.

[davidjtayler]

what gets me arethe people who live in thailand who hate the place, hate thai's and thne get married to one and complain about there family, complain about what she does but will still choose to be with her and live there.

Ofcourse some people will have no choice as they might of been sent there from the company they work for.

But majority can leave but wont and just be complaining about everything.

Agreed there Donz .. but those people would moan wherever they were.

[Donz]

True, there is also alot of those.