Teacher Licensing, Culture Testing, TCT

[culicine]

Well I certainly hope the TCT is serious about enforcement of their regulations. Can you imagine hundreds or thousands of teachers outlaying 60K to do a teaching course and then finding they have moved the goal posts. "Oh sorry, we don;t require that new TL anymore...now you need... hmm

Lets see what the new regulations are then...maybe my little orange TL will be redundant next week..

[Ijustwannateach]

Since AJMatt has basically announced he is a shill/troll, I think you guys can take his opinions with a big, big helping of salt. He won't be bothering us any more.

I can just see it- on their deathbeds- 'I wish... I'd spent... more of.... my precious time...... pretending to be... someone else..... on the internet....'

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

Well I certainly hope the TCT is serious about enforcement of their regulations. Can you imagine hundreds or thousands of teachers outlaying 60K to do a teaching course and then finding they have moved the goal posts. "Oh sorry, we don;t require that new TL anymore...now you need... hmm

It's happened before, but nowhere near the scale of investment required of teachers as was in this latest round.

[Ijustwannateach]

If they try to 'cancel' these previous 'qualifications,' they will make it impossible to expect anyone to take them seriously with the new 'qualifications' they wish to 'require.' Therefore, the most likely move is to say that the TCT 'qualifications' from those who took them this year will still be accepted, but that after this year they will not be 'offered' anymore, and 'new' 'qualifications' to be 'offered' by the current 'government' will 'henceforth' be 'required.'

[mbkudu]

Well I certainly hope the TCT is serious about enforcement of their regulations. Can you imagine hundreds or thousands of teachers outlaying 60K to do a teaching course and then finding they have moved the goal posts. "Oh sorry, we don;t require that new TL anymore...now you need... hmm

Lets see what the new regulations are then...maybe my little orange TL will be redundant next week..

Think of the Thai Elite Card. That was a minor F^k up. Everything is on a relative scale I guess.

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

Bruce, don't be a troll.

Okay, attempted to delete the post but the feature not available. Nor edit.

I'm glad you choose to attack the poster instead of the content. Shows something, I don't know what.

Regrets not able to delete. Perhaps another moderator will do it for us.

Sorry, but posting about the quality of English teachers is unrelated to this topic, has been beaten to death, and usually leads to the closure of threads. This forum is well-moderated, unlike the other boards on which you post. You know that I have nothing against you personally Bruce.

If you feel the TCT approved graduate education course will improve the quality of teachers in Thailand, I have my doubts, but you are free to make that argument. The way it has been implemented is a disaster. Forcing foreign teachers to spend a year in school at a cost of 60,000 baht is oppressive and unproductive. The MOE is considering implementing a coupon system and certified learning centers next month, which may reign in the TCT and make teacher training less burdensome.

If I recall Bruce, you have never been a teacher. Government schools currently require a bachelor's degree from a certified university for legal employment, although exceptions can be and have been made. Additional training, and even fair testing, could be beneficial. For instance, I think TEFL courses, properly taught, can give an entry level teacher some good basics. However, most TEFL courses are not properly taught.

The current TCT testing battery is a joke. Not even Thai teachers can pass it. The passing rate is less than 5%. Most of the test covers topics which never come up in teaching in Thailand, like purchasing ICT systems. I would expect the MOE to eliminate the current testing scheme. The culture course might be beneficial for newcomers to Thailand, but they need to lower the exemption. Currently, if you have been teaching five years, verified by WP, in Thailand, you are exempt from any culture course requirement. I think this could easily be lowered to two years.

[Loaded]

Probably the largest single employer of native-speaker teachers in Chiang Mai, Dara Academy, is extending their non-imm Bs for their teachers at the moment without problem and without mention of a TL from Immigration.

The requirement for a TL is currently only for teachers employed by government schools.

Your source?

According to the link you described as 'a nice link' it's private and government schools. Paragraphs 2.6 and 2.7:

http://www.norcham.com/attach_file/newsfile_215_200.pdf

Yupaaraj is one of the largest private schools in Chiang Mai. I know a few teachers there. None have been asked for a TL or waiver when extending.

So in Chiang Mai at least from the information I have, government and private schools don't seem to be affected.

[bannork]

I received a teacher's licence last week, it was backdated to December 2006 so expires this December! The committee concerned approved it this January. I have neither done the culture course nor possess any education credits in my degree.

Perhaps having already had a work permit for 6 years worked in my favour, or maybe working in a private school makes it easier.

Whatever!

[bannork]

I found out the reason I got the licence was because I graduated from a Thai university, namely Ramkhamhaeng.

[mbkudu]

^^^That's very interesting. Is that a one off, or are others who have Thai university degrees also 'exempt'? Ramkhamhaeng's undergraduate curriculum also includes a one semester three credit course in Thai culture, HI 121 Foundations of Thai Culture. If you had that course (a requirement for graduation) maybe they took that into consideration for the culture course requirement. If that is the case, it could save those who have Thai degrees a lot of hassle.

Edited March 30, 2009 by mbkudu

[bannork]

^^^That's very interesting. Is that a one off, or are others who have Thai university degrees also 'exempt'? Ramkhamhaeng's undergraduate curriculum also includes a one semester three credit course in Thai culture, HI 121 Foundations of Thai Culture. If you had that course (a requirement for graduation) maybe they took that into consideration for the culture course requirement. If that is the case, it could save those who have Thai degrees a lot of hassle.

My degree was in Thai not English, though I did English as my minor to make things easier.

[Loaded]

We are now well in to visa extension time and there seems to be very few, if any, reports of problems. I saw AJmatt also posted the same scare story on TD but was totally ignored. Ajarn isn't reporting any problems.

[Mario2008]

So far only problems in Tak, Nan and another immigration checkpoint. But reports are indeed few.

[cmiuc]

Hello guys,

is there any updated information on this? Its coming for contracts to be made and I'm sure after Song Kran, if there is a bangkok left, will it be required to get this waiver?

What immigrations are requiring it? Anyone have the latest info?

Thanks!

[Mario2008]

So far there are only a few reports about Nan, Tak and I believe Cap Chueng. No reports about BKK, so you should be ok.

Note that you acan apply for an extesion 30 days before your current permission to stay ends. Getting the waiver takes 2 to 3 weeks. So I advise everyone to apply early, just in case.

[Mario2008]

Interesting news, so far not already known. As of march the offical regultions of obtaining a work permit for a teacher include the requirement of having a teachers license or an exemption from it. Note that so far no labour office is known to have asked for it.

Documents can be found here:

http://115.31.137.7/workpermit/main/wp/form/Form_tt2.pdf

For teachers, page 15.

[aidenai]

Interesting news, so far not already known. As of march the offical regultions of obtaining a work permit for a teacher include the requirement of having a teachers license or an exemption from it. Note that so far no labour office is known to have asked for it.

Documents can be found here:

http://115.31.137.7/workpermit/main/wp/form/Form_tt2.pdf

For teachers, page 15.

Thank you very much for this information, Mario2008.

I just renewed my work permit for the third consecutive year and for the second time (since the TCT chaos), the Labour Office was not interested in my TCT permission letter for teaching without license. Just like you wrote. Labour was only interested in the teaching permission from the MoE.

Thanks again.

Edited April 29, 2009 by aidenai

[cat5]

I just renewed my contract and the school gave me the paperwork to renew my visa and work permit for another year. I didn't bother looking at the paperwork (so can't tell you exactly what it included) but I have never attended a culture course or teacher training course of any description. I think there may have been a waiver of some type. My visa and work permit was extended in Bangkok with absolutely no problem. Anyone who has paid for the culture or TCT course must be a sucker.

[Mario2008]

At this moment I wouldn't worry to much about the teachers license. Just aply for an extension of both WP and permission to stay from immigration early. You can do that 30 days prior to your current permission to stay expiring and the extension will start on the day your current WP/permission to stay ends.

The exemption or temporary license from the teachers council takes 2 to 3 weeks to get. So if there is a suddence change in the enforcement of the rules you will have time to arrange for it.

[Firelily]

I have just learnt that my school signed us up for an exam. On what exactly, they couldn't say, I was only told there are 9 sections and we must take one. The person in charge of our paperwork, visas and work permits says that the authorities want us to hand over 2000 baht, everything else is a mere formality - all the school needs to prove is "an ongoing process". It was the same last year with the culture course. Three years on, I have no idea about the status of my teacher's licence application.

At the same time, I was told that my degree doesn't count because it is called an "M.A. in Teaching English as a Foreign Language for Secondary Level", not an M.Ed., so I must go and get properly qualified. <deleted>?

I feel like a circus animal trying to jump invisible hoops in a darkened tent.

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

I have just learnt that my school signed us up for an exam. On what exactly, they couldn't say, I was only told there are 9 sections and we must take one. The person in charge of our paperwork, visas and work permits says that the authorities want us to hand over 2000 baht, everything else is a mere formality - all the school needs to prove is "an ongoing process". It was the same last year with the culture course. Three years on, I have no idea about the status of my teacher's licence application.

At the same time, I was told that my degree doesn't count because it is called an "M.A. in Teaching English as a Foreign Language for Secondary Level", not an M.Ed., so I must go and get properly qualified. <deleted>?

I feel like a circus animal trying to jump invisible hoops in a darkened tent.

You're taking the TCT exam battery. Don't worry. No one will pass. What province are you in? We should keep a running list of immigration offices that are trying to enforce the TL requirement. So far, I'm only aware of Nan requiring compliance.

[PeaceBlondie]

This resembles our Police Checks thread - over 800 posts, and still many unknown unknowns. A system this messed up deserves no respect and is a national disgrace.

[Firelily]

I'm in Chiang Mai. We don't think it is coming from immigration or the work permit office - someone had their visa extended recently without a fuss. Could be the education authorities or who knows what other office, with threats towards the school, not us the employees.

[skybluestu]

I have just learnt that my school signed us up for an exam. On what exactly, they couldn't say, I was only told there are 9 sections and we must take one. The person in charge of our paperwork, visas and work permits says that the authorities want us to hand over 2000 baht, everything else is a mere formality - all the school needs to prove is "an ongoing process". It was the same last year with the culture course. Three years on, I have no idea about the status of my teacher's licence application.

At the same time, I was told that my degree doesn't count because it is called an "M.A. in Teaching English as a Foreign Language for Secondary Level", not an M.Ed., so I must go and get properly qualified. <deleted>?

I feel like a circus animal trying to jump invisible hoops in a darkened tent.

You're taking the TCT exam battery. Don't worry. No one will pass. What province are you in? We should keep a running list of immigration offices that are trying to enforce the TL requirement. So far, I'm only aware of Nan requiring compliance.

Mae Sai immigration refused a Japanese teacher at my school 2 days ago for no TL or waiver letter. Firelily said her colleague in CM had an extension without a TL with no problems, does CM fall under a different imm office or were they just lucky? Anyone else had an extension recently at Mae Sai without a TL?

[Mario2008]

Chiang Mai falls under the same immigration regional headquarters as Mai Sai.

This is the first report I have seen about Mai Sai, so far I have seen several reports about Nan, Tak and 1 other immigration office (I believe Kap Cheung) requiring the TL or waiver.

You can apply for an extension of stay from 30 days your current permission to stay ends. To avoid problems I would suggest that one applies this early, so if there are problems you have time to solve it. Getting a waiver takes about 2 to 3 weeeks.

When you apply early for an extension of stay, your new extension still starts on the day your current ectension expires, so you lose nothing.

[gk10002000]

How is this affecting new people that have never worked or taught before? Are there any new people here that just started or are about to start teaching? What process did you go through? Did you get some waiver paperwork for this certificate or the culture course?

I would really hate to go ahead and pay and complete this TEFL class that I am a few days away from committing to, only to find out that once I get the TEFL certificate, getting a job and a work permit still is a long way away and involves some unknown time and money amounts.

[skybluestu]

How is this affecting new people that have never worked or taught before? Are there any new people here that just started or are about to start teaching? What process did you go through? Did you get some waiver paperwork for this certificate or the culture course?

I would really hate to go ahead and pay and complete this TEFL class that I am a few days away from committing to, only to find out that once I get the TEFL certificate, getting a job and a work permit still is a long way away and involves some unknown time and money amounts.

TIT!!! (Not you), it means 'This Is Thailand' and people often use it to describe things that happen here.

'I would really hate to go ahead and pay and complete this TEFL class that I am a few days away from committing to, only to find out that once I get the TEFL certificate, getting a job and a work permit still is a long way away and involves some unknown time and money amounts.'

That's something you should expect when living here in Thailand, some people are affected more than others but you should understand that they often change/enforce the rules here which will, at some point, involve your time & money.

[gk10002000]

How is this affecting new people that have never worked or taught before? Are there any new people here that just started or are about to start teaching? What process did you go through? Did you get some waiver paperwork for this certificate or the culture course?

I would really hate to go ahead and pay and complete this TEFL class that I am a few days away from committing to, only to find out that once I get the TEFL certificate, getting a job and a work permit still is a long way away and involves some unknown time and money amounts.

TIT!!! (Not you), it means 'This Is Thailand' and people often use it to describe things that happen here.

'I would really hate to go ahead and pay and complete this TEFL class that I am a few days away from committing to, only to find out that once I get the TEFL certificate, getting a job and a work permit still is a long way away and involves some unknown time and money amounts.'

That's something you should expect when living here in Thailand, some people are affected more than others but you should understand that they often change/enforce the rules here which will, at some point, involve your time & money.

I know. Been in country nine times. I am just trying to figure out what is currently happening for any NEW teachers.

[skybluestu]

How is this affecting new people that have never worked or taught before? Are there any new people here that just started or are about to start teaching? What process did you go through? Did you get some waiver paperwork for this certificate or the culture course?

I would really hate to go ahead and pay and complete this TEFL class that I am a few days away from committing to, only to find out that once I get the TEFL certificate, getting a job and a work permit still is a long way away and involves some unknown time and money amounts.

TIT!!! (Not you), it means 'This Is Thailand' and people often use it to describe things that happen here.

'I would really hate to go ahead and pay and complete this TEFL class that I am a few days away from committing to, only to find out that once I get the TEFL certificate, getting a job and a work permit still is a long way away and involves some unknown time and money amounts.'

That's something you should expect when living here in Thailand, some people are affected more than others but you should understand that they often change/enforce the rules here which will, at some point, involve your time & money.

I know. Been in country nine times. I am just trying to figure out what is currently happening for any NEW teachers.

It won't be the same for each NEW teacher, it will be different for every teacher regardless of whether they are new or have been teaching here for 5yrs. Some will have no problems getting a WP, waiver letter etc and some will have problems even if they haven't had any before, as I said, TIT!

[aujourdui]

News we have here is the following.

Work permits will be tied to a teaching licence.

To obtain a teaching licence you must fullfil one of the following criterea.

1 Be a qualified teacher or have a degree in education.

2 Have a degree and have been on a work permit from before 2003.

3 have a degree and pass a ministry of education exam in English and Thai culture. The exams will be taken in Bangkok and regional centres after a seminar.

All the schools here in Nakhon have been in communication with the min. of ed. and they have assured the schools this will be going ahead.

Going to cause ructions and a teacher shortage if it does

Thanks for the info. I was thinking that I would match the the third criteria. Could you elaborate some details such as

-Where should I start? web sites, contacts, application.....

-My degrees are from Australia in IT and Science major. Do they related as all regard to the teaching job? What I meant is there seem to be no way I could teach Science and IT via Thai language. The only choice here is teaching English?

-Which one should I obtain first? Education Exam or a so-called TEFL?

-In case I would like to try to apply for some uni those provide English spoken only subjects. How and where should I start?

My apology for such tedious questions which likely were answered somewhere. However, I am grateful if someone could bear my confusing with some clear cut advices.