Yingluck ‘Confused’ by Signals on Rice Subsidy

[waitforusalso]

confused? indeed as am I 'beneficial to the nation'? at last the truth comes out and it's obvious to all that she did what she thought was right (but it turned out badly as do many decisions by governments around the world)

but then 'potentially fraudulent'? everything is 'potentially fraudulent' but I'm pretty sure she will be found innocent of fraud claims and some TVF posters will look pretty dumb

good news for her anyway

There is no way this was 'beneficial to the nation' - it was a cynical ploy by Thaksin to woo the rural voters and to drum up more of his ruinous populism. Setting up a scam like this, where there was reported corruption from top to bottom, paying 100% over the world market value for rice is not 'beneficial to the nation'. This was politics, pure and simple, bad politics at that. The Thai Finance Ministry stated the scheme lost $15.8 billion - now how is that a benefit? When deputy auditor-general Ms Prapee Angkinanda blew the whistle on the rampant corruption, she was attacked by the Yingluck government.

@Bobo, As far as I am aware only New Zealand of the agricultural nations does not have farm subsidies.

1) Please show me how it is ever possible for any country to make money out of farm subsidies.

However they do other beneficial things such as prevent the depopulation of the rural areas and reduce the over population of Bangkok. These factors should not be taken so lightly.

But this was not a subsidy. Had it been, the government of the day would have had to show how much money it was going to cost and where the money was going to come from. They never did that. They said the scheme was going to be self-financing and so avoided having to account for it.

From pretty much day one it was obvious the scheme was not going to finance itself, and that instead it was going to cost a massive amount of money and quite possibly achieve nothing - at least not for those people it was supposed to be helping. And this is precisely what the government was told month after month, week after week, by anyone who could be heard, and every time the government simply responded with, "no, you are wrong, be patient, we know what we are doing". Well they didn't did they. They have to be held accountable for that.

Cue now the, "ah yes but all governments around the world are incompetent and useless, and waste money, so why be so hard on poor little Yingluck" argument.

It was hoped to be self-financing, but the world price of rice tumbled just as the scheme was being implemented. World commodity prices regularly destroy markets, policies and at times whole country's economies. Take a look at oil prices at the moment and the havoc it is causing.

As for other countries..."the Congressional Budget Office, total government aid to farmers will swell to $23.9 billion in 2017"

http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2016/02/01/465132866/farm-subsidies-persist-and-grow-despite-talk-of-reform

[Pib]

A Confused govt program is a Corrupted govt program.

[SOTIRIOS]

...as an 'initiative'.....

...yet when it ends up that the nation is scammed out of billions...farmers committing suicide....all kinds or rice switching and swapping.....

....and has anyone asked.....'Where did all the money go???'......

...confused why charges have not been laid already....

...and assets seized....

[tuanku]

confused? indeed as am I 'beneficial to the nation'? at last the truth comes out and it's obvious to all that she did what she thought was right (but it turned out badly as do many decisions by governments around the world)

but then 'potentially fraudulent'? everything is 'potentially fraudulent' but I'm pretty sure she will be found innocent of fraud claims and some TVF posters will look pretty dumb

good news for her anyway

There is no way this was 'beneficial to the nation' - it was a cynical ploy by Thaksin to woo the rural voters and to drum up more of his ruinous populism. Setting up a scam like this, where there was reported corruption from top to bottom, paying 100% over the world market value for rice is not 'beneficial to the nation'. This was politics, pure and simple, bad politics at that. The Thai Finance Ministry stated the scheme lost $15.8 billion - now how is that a benefit? When deputy auditor-general Ms Prapee Angkinanda blew the whistle on the rampant corruption, she was attacked by the Yingluck government.

"Lost" xx million merely means xx million is now recirculating in the economy, paying off debts and providing necessities for people whom the Government are obliged to assist one way or the other anyway. The mismanagement part of it means a chunk of this was siphoned off by individuals higher up the chain who didn't need or deserve it, as happens in practically any subsidy process. However the money that did get through to the farmers was helpful to both them and the economy as a whole.

[rixalex]

It was hoped to be self-financing, but the world price of rice tumbled just as the scheme was being implemented. World commodity prices regularly destroy markets, policies and at times whole country's economies. Take a look at oil prices at the moment and the havoc it is causing. [/size]

rice price.JPG

As for other countries..."the Congressional Budget Office, total government aid to farmers will swell to $23.9 billion in 2017"[/size]

http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2016/02/01/465132866/farm-subsidies-persist-and-grow-despite-talk-of-reform

I think when you look at all the other issues with the scheme, even without what you mention in the above, it was a project doomed to fail, but the question isn't so much about why it was started in the first place, but rather it wasn't either scrapped or at the very least massively revised when it became evident to everyone how much money was draining away every day. We are not talking about a few weeks or a couple of months here. This went on for months and months, with the government adamant that it knew better than everyone else.

Edited February 13, 2016 by rixalex

[worgeordie]

Dazed and confused,is that going to be her defense,lots of people

did very well out of this scam,not so much the farmers as they are still

up to their eyes in debt,and who knows how much it is still costing the

tax payer EVERYDAY,paying storage charges for rotting rice.

regards Worgeordie

[smedly]

confused? indeed as am I 'beneficial to the nation'? at last the truth comes out and it's obvious to all that she did what she thought was right (but it turned out badly as do many decisions by governments around the world)

but then 'potentially fraudulent'? everything is 'potentially fraudulent' but I'm pretty sure she will be found innocent of fraud claims and some TVF posters will look pretty dumb

good news for her anyway

There is no way this was 'beneficial to the nation' - it was a cynical ploy by Thaksin to woo the rural voters and to drum up more of his ruinous populism. Setting up a scam like this, where there was reported corruption from top to bottom, paying 100% over the world market value for rice is not 'beneficial to the nation'. This was politics, pure and simple, bad politics at that. The Thai Finance Ministry stated the scheme lost $15.8 billion - now how is that a benefit? When deputy auditor-general Ms Prapee Angkinanda blew the whistle on the rampant corruption, she was attacked by the Yingluck government.

I believe selective out of context reporting here a common well observed trait by PTP

did the rice scam "benefit the nation" with a loss of almost 800billion baht - just leave a few words out and it looks quite good

[LannaGuy]

...as an 'initiative'.....

...yet when it ends up that the nation is scammed out of billions...farmers committing suicide....all kinds or rice switching and swapping.....

....and has anyone asked.....'Where did all the money go???'......

...confused why charges have not been laid already....

...and assets seized....

always nice to hear from a lawyer on a sunny morning

'scammed billions'? evidence and links please dear poster

'rice switching and swapping'? evidence please M'lud

'where did all the money go'? what money? you mean some is 'missing'? now that would be FRAUD my dear Sherlock

'charges and assets seized'? why is she sitting in her organic garden? call the Police!!!

[smedly]

I am surprised that Yingluck's lawyers are letting her speak to the public regarding this case. Yingluck is not the shiniest coin in the fountain. She would be more comfortable answering questions on designer handbags, watches or best cities around the world for shopping.

becaue her only way out is to try and garner sympathy from those that don't know any better, maybe even the odd tear running down her cheek, maybe she should tell the reporters how much money her, her brother and extended family have amassed from the people over the last 20 years - too many zeros for most Thais to even grasp the amount

[sawadee1947]

confused? indeed as am I 'beneficial to the nation'? at last the truth comes out and it's obvious to all that she did what she thought was right (but it turned out badly as do many decisions by governments around the world)

but then 'potentially fraudulent'? everything is 'potentially fraudulent' but I'm pretty sure she will be found innocent of fraud claims and some TVF posters will look pretty dumb

good news for her anyway

I hope you will be right. But to be innocent doesn't mean here to be sentenced unfortunately.

[Valentine]

Yingluck being confused by something is hardly a surprise or newsworthy.

I'm sure you jokingly missed the point on purpose

To be honest, yes.

However I should also say that I do do not see how the debacle of a rice scheme benefited the country.

It was from start to finish an unmitigated disaster.

Guess yingluck isn't the only one who is easily confused.

I always thought the whole scheme was contrived to benefit the rich & powerful. If it helped some farmers then that was part of the PR plan to sell it to the nation.

[Lupatria]

Yingluck being confused by something is hardly a surprise or newsworthy.

Thank you three times for the post.

[thesetat2013]

Why is she confused? The rice scheme was beneficial to the people. It gave them love more money than the actual value of the rice, when they actually and finally got paid. It helped the people who owned the storage facilities tremendously. Just because the scheme actually helped some people does not mean she wasn't negligent in her role in this. It doesn't mean the country didn't suffer huge losses because of that. It doesn't mean she was right in doing and maintaining that scheme either. It ONLY means it helped people, which it did somewhat. Mr. P could have said how it helped people make the choice to kill themselves also. Or how it helped the people to get into even more debt. What a ditz!

[thelonius]

confused? indeed as am I 'beneficial to the nation'? at last the truth comes out and it's obvious to all that she did what she thought was right (but it turned out badly as do many decisions by governments around the world)

but then 'potentially fraudulent'? everything is 'potentially fraudulent' but I'm pretty sure she will be found innocent of fraud claims and some TVF posters will look pretty dumb

good news for her anyway

There is no way this was 'beneficial to the nation' - it was a cynical ploy by Thaksin to woo the rural voters and to drum up more of his ruinous populism. Setting up a scam like this, where there was reported corruption from top to bottom, paying 100% over the world market value for rice is not 'beneficial to the nation'. This was politics, pure and simple, bad politics at that. The Thai Finance Ministry stated the scheme lost $15.8 billion - now how is that a benefit? When deputy auditor-general Ms Prapee Angkinanda blew the whistle on the rampant corruption, she was attacked by the Yingluck government.

I believe selective out of context reporting here a common well observed trait by PTP

did the rice scam "benefit the nation" with a loss of almost 800billion baht - just leave a few words out and it looks quite good

"I believe selective out of context reporting here a common well observed trait by PTP"

and some TVF posters it appears - 800 billion baht loss?

The estimated loss previously calculated by the Finance Ministry sub committee overseeing the scheme was assessed at 518 Billion baht. The State Panel investigation to which this OP refers rejected the addition of interest which led to the 518 billion figure so even that is an inflated sum.

So your 800 Billion figure? Just add a few figures and it looks a lot worse, eh?

[wabothai]

She does not come across to me as having a criminal mind.

The real evil comes from the behind licking, corrupt, powerful and sleezy creeps around her, included her brother.

Yeah, she is confused. And that she is growing lettuce in her own backyard has nothing to do with nothing.

[Gunna]

confused? indeed as am I 'beneficial to the nation'? at last the truth comes out and it's obvious to all that she did what she thought was right (but it turned out badly as do many decisions by governments around the world)

but then 'potentially fraudulent'? everything is 'potentially fraudulent' but I'm pretty sure she will be found innocent of fraud claims and some TVF posters will look pretty dumb

good news for her anyway

There is no way this was 'beneficial to the nation' - it was a cynical ploy by Thaksin to woo the rural voters and to drum up more of his ruinous populism. Setting up a scam like this, where there was reported corruption from top to bottom, paying 100% over the world market value for rice is not

'beneficial to the nation'. This was politics, pure and simple, bad politics at that. The Thai Finance Ministry stated the scheme lost $15.8 billion - now how is that a benefit? When

deputy auditor-general Ms Prapee Angkinanda blew the whistle on the rampant corruption, she was attacked by the Yingluck government.

@Bobo, As far as I am aware only New Zealand of the agricultural nations does not have farm subsidies.

1) Please show me how it is ever possible for any country to make money out of farm subsidies.

However they do other beneficial things such as prevent the depopulation of the rural areas and reduce the over population of Bangkok. These factors should not be taken so lightly.

How many times do you have to be told - The Rice Scam was never a subsidy, even PTP will admit that. It was an off budget vote buying scam, ie a bribe to the farmers to get PTP elected, using the money for the Thai treasury. The aim was always to get an amnesty for all the criminals, and in the end benefited very few small rice farmers. Rice millers, rice traders, rice warehouses and rich land owners made most of the money

Edited February 13, 2016 by Gunna

[Eric Loh]

confused? indeed as am I 'beneficial to the nation'? at last the truth comes out and it's obvious to all that she did what she thought was right (but it turned out badly as do many decisions by governments around the world)

but then 'potentially fraudulent'? everything is 'potentially fraudulent' but I'm pretty sure she will be found innocent of fraud claims and some TVF posters will look pretty dumb

good news for her anyway

There is no way this was 'beneficial to the nation' - it was a cynical ploy by Thaksin to woo the rural voters and to drum up more of his ruinous populism. Setting up a scam like this, where there was reported corruption from top to bottom, paying 100% over the world market value for rice is not

'beneficial to the nation'. This was politics, pure and simple, bad politics at that. The Thai Finance Ministry stated the scheme lost $15.8 billion - now how is that a benefit? When

deputy auditor-general Ms Prapee Angkinanda blew the whistle on the rampant corruption, she was attacked by the Yingluck government.

@Bobo, As far as I am aware only New Zealand of the agricultural nations does not have farm subsidies.

1) Please show me how it is ever possible for any country to make money out of farm subsidies.

However they do other beneficial things such as prevent the depopulation of the rural areas and reduce the over population of Bangkok. These factors should not be taken so lightly.

How many times do you have to be told - The Rice Scam was never a subsidy, even PTP will admit that. It was an off budget vote buying scam, ie a bribe to the farmers to get PTP elected, using the money for the Thai treasury. The aim was always to get an amnesty for all the criminals, and in the end benefited very few small rice farmers. Rice millers, rice traders, rice warehouses and rich land owners made most of the money[/quote

The rubber scheme paid higher than the market price and was called a subsidy. What's so different Sherlock?

[aussieinthailand]

confused? indeed as am I 'beneficial to the nation'? at last the truth comes out and it's obvious to all that she did what she thought was right (but it turned out badly as do many decisions by governments around the world)

but then 'potentially fraudulent'? everything is 'potentially fraudulent' but I'm pretty sure she will be found innocent of fraud claims and some TVF posters will look pretty dumb

good news for her anyway

There is no way this was 'beneficial to the nation' - it was a cynical ploy by Thaksin to woo the rural voters and to drum up more of his ruinous populism. Setting up a scam like this, where there was reported corruption from top to bottom, paying 100% over the world market value for rice is not 'beneficial to the nation'. This was politics, pure and simple, bad politics at that. The Thai Finance Ministry stated the scheme lost $15.8 billion - now how is that a benefit? When deputy auditor-general Ms Prapee Angkinanda blew the whistle on the rampant corruption, she was attacked by the Yingluck government.

@Bobo, As far as I am aware only New Zealand of the agricultural nations does not have farm subsidies.

1) Please show me how it is ever possible for any country to make money out of farm subsidies.

However they do other beneficial things such as prevent the depopulation of the rural areas and reduce the over population of Bangkok. These factors should not be taken so lightly.

But this was not a subsidy. Had it been, the government of the day would have had to show how much money it was going to cost and where the money was going to come from. They never did that. They said the scheme was going to be self-financing and so avoided having to account for it.

From pretty much day one it was obvious the scheme was not going to finance itself, and that instead it was going to cost a massive amount of money and quite possibly achieve nothing - at least not for those people it was supposed to be helping. And this is precisely what the government was told month after month, week after week, by anyone who could be heard, and every time the government simply responded with, "no, you are wrong, be patient, we know what we are doing". Well they didn't did they. They have to be held accountable for that.

Cue now the, "ah yes but all governments around the world are incompetent and useless, and waste money, so why be so hard on poor little Yingluck" argument.

All these people saying, A waste of money, and it didn't help the people it was supposed to help but didn't blah blah blah,,, Sorry guy's but YOUR WRONG!!!

It did help so many farmers and many did get paid, I Have family and friends North South East and West, both Thai and falang with Thai family that fall into this category, FACT...

Is there proof IRRIFUTABLE with iron clad numbers of farmers that simply didn't get paid? where not helped? and that they didn't benefit?

Yes people were made to wait for payments, Yes there were cases of hardship, Yes it was not ideal policy, Yes there were many many problems that should have been illuminated before implementation, Mark had a rice sub'y the current junta has one also, how did they go? How's the rice market now?

[TPI]

confused? indeed as am I 'beneficial to the nation'? at last the truth comes out and it's obvious to all that she did what she thought was right (but it turned out badly as do many decisions by governments around the world)

but then 'potentially fraudulent'? everything is 'potentially fraudulent' but I'm pretty sure she will be found innocent of fraud claims and some TVF posters will look pretty dumb

good news for her anyway

There is no way this was 'beneficial to the nation' - it was a cynical ploy by Thaksin to woo the rural voters and to drum up more of his ruinous populism. Setting up a scam like this, where there was reported corruption from top to bottom, paying 100% over the world market value for rice is not 'beneficial to the nation'. This was politics, pure and simple, bad politics at that. The Thai Finance Ministry stated the scheme lost $15.8 billion - now how is that a benefit? When deputy auditor-general Ms Prapee Angkinanda blew the whistle on the rampant corruption, she was attacked by the Yingluck government.

ahhh Thaksin

Ah, Mr Lanaguy, how I've missed you......how was your trip to Dubai? Profitable was it?

Obviously the "fix" is in, the securities have changed hands and all is well with the world again! Don't you just love the LOS?

[JAG]

confused? indeed as am I 'beneficial to the nation'? at last the truth comes out and it's obvious to all that she did what she thought was right (but it turned out badly as do many decisions by governments around the world)

but then 'potentially fraudulent'? everything is 'potentially fraudulent' but I'm pretty sure she will be found innocent of fraud claims and some TVF posters will look pretty dumb

good news for her anyway

There is no way this was 'beneficial to the nation' - it was a cynical ploy by Thaksin to woo the rural voters and to drum up more of his ruinous populism. Setting up a scam like this, where there was reported corruption from top to bottom, paying 100% over the world market value for rice is not 'beneficial to the nation'. This was politics, pure and simple, bad politics at that. The Thai Finance Ministry stated the scheme lost $15.8 billion - now how is that a benefit? When deputy auditor-general Ms Prapee Angkinanda blew the whistle on the rampant corruption, she was attacked by the Yingluck government.

I believe selective out of context reporting here a common well observed trait by PTP

did the rice scam "benefit the nation" with a loss of almost 800billion baht - just leave a few words out and it looks quite good

"I believe selective out of context reporting here a common well observed trait by PTP"

and some TVF posters it appears - 800 billion baht loss?

The estimated loss previously calculated by the Finance Ministry sub committee overseeing the scheme was assessed at 518 Billion baht. The State Panel investigation to which this OP refers rejected the addition of interest which led to the 518 billion figure so even that is an inflated sum.

So your 800 Billion figure? Just add a few figures and it looks a lot worse, eh?

Complaining about selective out of context reporting Smedley!

Oh the irony!

[chainarong]

Once again a poor worded media release, and not to be Confused with ability , , the whole nation is confused , if any body wanted to write a book here is the best place to start, Thailand ,and what is more confusing , now even I am confused, err sort of..............................

Edited February 13, 2016 by chainarong

[elgordo38]

Yingluck being confused by something is hardly a surprise or newsworthy.

I'm sure you jokingly missed the point on purpose

To be honest, yes.

However I should also say that I do do not see how the debacle of a rice scheme benefited the country.

It was from start to finish an unmitigated disaster.

Guess yingluck isn't the only one who is easily confused.

Have you ever heard of Charles Ponzi. Farmers were "receiving" 15,000 bahts a ton rather than the market rate of 9,000 bahts. The real problem was when the government told them "The check was in the mail" well not actually the banks would just not extend the credit to pay them. Banks were marching to a different drumbeat.

[elgordo38]

Same as politicians worldwide, Cannot trust.

Amen. Birds of a feather.

[Artisi]

confused? indeed as am I 'beneficial to the nation'? at last the truth comes out and it's obvious to all that she did what she thought was right (but it turned out badly as do many decisions by governments around the world)

but then 'potentially fraudulent'? everything is 'potentially fraudulent' but I'm pretty sure she will be found innocent of fraud claims and some TVF posters will look pretty dumb

good news for her anyway

There is no way this was 'beneficial to the nation' - it was a cynical ploy by Thaksin to woo the rural voters and to drum up more of his ruinous populism. Setting up a scam like this, where there was reported corruption from top to bottom, paying 100% over the world market value for rice is not 'beneficial to the nation'. This was politics, pure and simple, bad politics at that. The Thai Finance Ministry stated the scheme lost $15.8 billion - now how is that a benefit? When deputy auditor-general Ms Prapee Angkinanda blew the whistle on the rampant corruption, she was attacked by the Yingluck government.

ahhh Thaksin

Of course to a real Thaksin lover, he wasn't anyway involved in any way in this scam as he was busy slaving away for the betterment of himself - oops, sorry the people of Thailand were the only thing in his thoughts...

[Baerboxer]

confused? indeed as am I 'beneficial to the nation'? at last the truth comes out and it's obvious to all that she did what she thought was right (but it turned out badly as do many decisions by governments around the world)

but then 'potentially fraudulent'? everything is 'potentially fraudulent' but I'm pretty sure she will be found innocent of fraud claims and some TVF posters will look pretty dumb

good news for her anyway

Well, you've always been a little confused. Remember you thought she was a real PM and actually made decisions herself.

All she has to do is show audited accounts that show where all the money, and not just "some benefit", went and who to. And then explain why she, having appointed herself chair of the rice policy committee, chose never to attend any of the meeting she was supposed to chair; ignored all the warnings from many different qualified sources, and made false promises to farmers which she never explained or apologized for.

As usual, when a billionaire hiso elite "political" class person is charged with anything, it all becomes a muddy clouded mirage, a game of smoke and mirrors. Add that to the usual odd remarks that every man and his dog feel obliged to throw in; the outrageously cumbersome legal process with it's just as cumbersome appeals process, and I'm sure this case will go nowhere fast. It doesn't matter which side your on, if your rich elite and connected enough, then nothing will really happen.

She did what her brother instructed her to do, nothing do with whether it was right or wrong. She is probably confused because he said none of this would happen, he'd be back in charge after his whitewash and she could go back to her organic garden (haha), mushrooms, shopping for the weekly groceries and looking after all her jewels and designer handbags and watches.

Ah, the life of an amply rich billionaire, never dull.

[Baerboxer]

I am surprised that Yingluck's lawyers are letting her speak to the public regarding this case. Yingluck is not the shiniest coin in the fountain. She would be more comfortable answering questions on designer handbags, watches or best cities around the world for shopping.

typical stereotyping and obfuscation about 'handbags' and such like the misogyny on TVF is quite astounding sometimes

now back to the facts? bad scheme but well intentioned? any fraud??? no? ok then... let's get back to 'handbags' and 'watches' or 'cities around the world' shall we?

Bad scheme but well intentioned - maybe but we don't really know all the details. Little things like were certain "special" people supposed to benefit, through warehouse ownership, owning millers, owning transport companies, creating fraudulent export deals etc..

Fraud - we'll have to await the verdict of the court case involving former commerce minister and others regarding apparent bogus G2G deals; and any other cases which may be brought before we can answer that.

Negligence - like not attending any meetings you were supposed to chair, or making sure real financial accounts were prepared and reviewed, whilst ignoring all warning home and abroad? Isn't the charge negligence?

I doubt misogyny, as much as you'd like to pretend to mask and dismiss it. She does have lots of designer watches, handbags, clothes, as you would expect from an amply rich billionaire, from a family of multi billionaires who wealth increased astronomically during "her" government's tenure. And she did spend an incredible amount of time out of Thailand - but that was to keep her away from parliament, from questioning and to increase plausible deniability.

[Baerboxer]

confused? indeed as am I 'beneficial to the nation'? at last the truth comes out and it's obvious to all that she did what she thought was right (but it turned out badly as do many decisions by governments around the world)

but then 'potentially fraudulent'? everything is 'potentially fraudulent' but I'm pretty sure she will be found innocent of fraud claims and some TVF posters will look pretty dumb

good news for her anyway

There is no way this was 'beneficial to the nation' - it was a cynical ploy by Thaksin to woo the rural voters and to drum up more of his ruinous populism. Setting up a scam like this, where there was reported corruption from top to bottom, paying 100% over the world market value for rice is not 'beneficial to the nation'. This was politics, pure and simple, bad politics at that. The Thai Finance Ministry stated the scheme lost $15.8 billion - now how is that a benefit? When deputy auditor-general Ms Prapee Angkinanda blew the whistle on the rampant corruption, she was attacked by the Yingluck government.

"Lost" xx million merely means xx million is now recirculating in the economy, paying off debts and providing necessities for people whom the Government are obliged to assist one way or the other anyway. The mismanagement part of it means a chunk of this was siphoned off by individuals higher up the chain who didn't need or deserve it, as happens in practically any subsidy process. However the money that did get through to the farmers was helpful to both them and the economy as a whole.

Very little reached the farmers. And the poorest farmers were excluded from taking part anyway.

Without the accounts, that have never been made available, no one knows where the money went or how much was siphoned. But I bet a considerable about went to already wealthy people and has been transferred offshore.

[Don Mega]

For all that is said and done she is one good looking woman

Yep Yep. I'd gladly eat up her organic mushroom.

[Baerboxer]

...as an 'initiative'.....

...yet when it ends up that the nation is scammed out of billions...farmers committing suicide....all kinds or rice switching and swapping.....

....and has anyone asked.....'Where did all the money go???'......

...confused why charges have not been laid already....

...and assets seized....

always nice to hear from a lawyer on a sunny morning

'scammed billions'? evidence and links please dear poster

'rice switching and swapping'? evidence please M'lud

'where did all the money go'? what money? you mean some is 'missing'? now that would be FRAUD my dear Sherlock

'charges and assets seized'? why is she sitting in her organic garden? call the Police!!!

One way to cover up fraud is not to, or pretend not to, keep accounts.

That's why failure to keep correct accounts is a criminal offense in civilized countries. Stops those who claim there is no fraud, no losses, but won't or can't show the accounts.

Remind us again, when did Yingluck, her former FM Mr. White Lies, or any of her brother's stooges in government, ever produce this schemes accounts?

I wonder if failure to keep accounts is an offense under Thai Law?

[Baerboxer]

confused? indeed as am I 'beneficial to the nation'? at last the truth comes out and it's obvious to all that she did what she thought was right (but it turned out badly as do many decisions by governments around the world)

but then 'potentially fraudulent'? everything is 'potentially fraudulent' but I'm pretty sure she will be found innocent of fraud claims and some TVF posters will look pretty dumb

good news for her anyway

There is no way this was 'beneficial to the nation' - it was a cynical ploy by Thaksin to woo the rural voters and to drum up more of his ruinous populism. Setting up a scam like this, where there was reported corruption from top to bottom, paying 100% over the world market value for rice is not

'beneficial to the nation'. This was politics, pure and simple, bad politics at that. The Thai Finance Ministry stated the scheme lost $15.8 billion - now how is that a benefit? When

deputy auditor-general Ms Prapee Angkinanda blew the whistle on the rampant corruption, she was attacked by the Yingluck government.

@Bobo, As far as I am aware only New Zealand of the agricultural nations does not have farm subsidies.

1) Please show me how it is ever possible for any country to make money out of farm subsidies.

However they do other beneficial things such as prevent the depopulation of the rural areas and reduce the over population of Bangkok. These factors should not be taken so lightly.

How many times do you have to be told - The Rice Scam was never a subsidy, even PTP will admit that. It was an off budget vote buying scam, ie a bribe to the farmers to get PTP elected, using the money for the Thai treasury. The aim was always to get an amnesty for all the criminals, and in the end benefited very few small rice farmers. Rice millers, rice traders, rice warehouses and rich land owners made most of the money[/quote

The rubber scheme paid higher than the market price and was called a subsidy. What's so different Sherlock?

but, but, but, but.............

Any excuse.

Are you suggesting the rice scheme was well run and that all the money went to deserving farmers Eric?

Was the rubber scheme a budgeted subsidy? Now was the rice scheme a budgeted subsidy? See the difference Watson?