I need some pump advice.

[canuckamuck]

Ok I went and took a few pictures. I believe it was made by inter pump, but perhaps the company name is Twins world. The model name appears to be Makro. I deduced this because the larger one beside it was called Big Makro.

Not much is said in the Thai lettering, just claims about how wonderful it is. I couldn't find a thing about the it on the internet.

here are some pics.

Edited March 26, 2016 by canuckamuck

[farmerjo]

Hi canuckamuck,

Information is light on the net.What i found was a piston pump with 100mm piston with a 240mm stroke at 40 rpm will give you 1 m3.

In post number 30 KTC,their RG-103 has a 103mm piston 3" inlet/outlet and they've rated it at 25m3 so i presume that would be at 1000 rpm.

So if that one in your picture is a 2" inlet/outlet and smaller diameter piston,you would need to run it a lot faster.(more rpm)

And you will still be looking at a minimum of 10hp-15hp.

The best way to do it,as most shops have testing facilities.Use the pulley calculator and work on a size pulley for the motor to give you around 1450rpm at the pump.Get them to mount that 10hp b and s on it and do a bucket test for the volume at at different throttle speeds.

It's a lot of messing around but you will be spending a lot of money so you want to make sure it's right.

[canuckamuck]

It is supposed to be be a duel piston pump, but I have seen no specs on it whatsoever. The owner of the shop is away, and his shop girls are totally clueless. Also he only has motors up tp 5.5HP. Hopefully I can get more info next week. It is a shop I like to deal with because it is half an hour closer to our place and they know me.

I am in Chiang Rai area and I am have trouble finding much in the way of piston pumps. If this pump does indeed put out 36 cubes an hour, it is is above what I need, I could get away with 25. I am tempted to just get the pump and then take it to a shop that has a good selection of motors and get the thing matched up. But my preliminary investigation has run into a lot of blank stares and useless answers.

Also I am a bit over my head with the tech. Most of these gas motors are rated to run at 3600 rpm. But I have no idea what these pumps run at, and I have never calculated pulleys and RPM. I am not dumb, but I need a bit of an education on this.

[ThaiKneeTim]

Update:

Here's where I am at. I have found a piston pump I like. It is a double piston unit and it puts out 37cubic meters an hour. 10 more than my current pump. What I need to decide on is how to power it. The guy who sells the pump has some Honda motors around but only up to 5.5Hp. He tells me the Honda can power that pump no problem. Even though I said I don't want to run the pump flat out all the time.

I went to another shop and they have some lovely Briggs and Strattons. They have a 6.5HP and a 10HP. They tell me the 6.5 can do it but it will have to run flat out, whereas the 10 HP can do it at a slower RPM.

Of course they both want the sale and they want to sell the most expensive one they have.

Anyhow I already have a motor which has equal specs to the 5.5 Honda on my other pump. And if the Honda can do it so can mine (probably). But if mine can't do it, I have to go bigger. If the 6.5 HP can't do it I am out some more cash, and if 6.5 can do it and I buy the 10, then I paid too much.

Also, I am worried that if I get the 10 and configure the pump to run at lower revs, what happens if someone opens the motor full throttle? will it blow up the pump?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Piston pumps are positive displacement so if you're pumping more than the pipework can deliver a joint is going to blow somewhere. A pressure relief valve might be a good idea to protect your pipework from excessive pressure.

[farmerjo]

Regarding pulley sizes,see what is on the pump,if it's a 10" pulley and want to run it at 1400 rpm to get maximum output(we dont know spec for this)

You would run a 4" pulley on engine(3500 rpm)

As you say,wait for boss to come back and find out the correct info as i don't believe it would be capable of anywhere near what's

written on the housing.Would still pump the water up the hill but doubt the volume for the sprinklers.

I have sent an email to kittichareon to find out specs as i would like to know as well,hope they reply.

Edited March 27, 2016 by farmerjo

[canuckamuck]

Really appreciate the help. thanks.

[canuckamuck]

With the drought being a big P.I.A. for us, I had to move forward with this project. Because although there might not be many days of irrigating left (spring is down to a trickle). I do need to get a pump set up at home to bring water up from the river. So I went and bought that pump I posted earlier. I wanted to get started making a frame for it so I can fit a motor for it and get it installed. Looking at the pump it is pretty clear to me I don't know much.

I measured the wheel it came with and it is a 12". The shop guy is still adamant that I can run this thing with my 6HP motor. However I think I am going to keep that pump in one piece and bring it home to supply our house. And so I am considering engines, and I like this Lifan http://www.lazada.co.th/tools-pro-lifan-188fd-b-3449128.html I looked it up and it claims to be 390 CC 13 HP. I think this would be more than enough. Probably too much for most of our applications. But my idea is that it would run easy and last a long time. I like the electric start idea too. I have owned a Lifan bike for 5 years and the motor never missed a beat, So I am not too concerned about the China factor. The new pump and my old pump are all Chinese any how.

So am I on to the right track here?

[canuckamuck]

Also, what is the max RPM and what is the optimum RPM for this style pump?

If I put a 4" wheel one a pump run it at 3600 RPM, that will give me 1200 RPM on 12 " wheel correct?

Is 1200 a good speed?

Edited March 31, 2016 by canuckamuck

[farmerjo]

Also, what is the max RPM and what is the optimum RPM for this style pump?

If I put a 4" wheel one a pump run it at 3600 RPM, that will give me 1200 RPM on 12 " wheel correct?

Is 1200 a good speed?

I think your on the right track,the 4" will give you a range of speeds to check the volume and the 13 hp will give the power at lower revs.

Once your set up and it's been tested you may only need to spend a little more to change motor pulley size,make sure to allow for different length belts

with your motor hold down bolt slots.

You are making ground breaking achievements in this area for all to appreciate. .

Did it end up being double or single piston?

[canuckamuck]

Also, what is the max RPM and what is the optimum RPM for this style pump?

If I put a 4" wheel one a pump run it at 3600 RPM, that will give me 1200 RPM on 12 " wheel correct?

Is 1200 a good speed?

I think your on the right track,the 4" will give you a range of speeds to check the volume and the 13 hp will give the power at lower revs.

Once your set up and it's been tested you may only need to spend a little more to change motor pulley size,make sure to allow for different length belts

with your motor hold down bolt slots.

You are making ground breaking achievements in this area for all to appreciate. .

Did it end up being double or single piston?

It certainly looks like a single piston. I can't imagine they've got two in there, But then again I never had one of these before.

My big fear now is running the pump too quick and tearing it up. So I really do want to know the recommended RPM of the pump. Are they all the same or is it pump specific? The guy at the shop doesn't appear to know the answer.

[farmerjo]

Just went and looked at the neighbours in operation.

He is using his down a borehole with the water at 12 metres.

He is running a 4" pulley on the tak tak and only got it idling over at i would guess 800 rpm so pump doing around 270 rpm.

Looking out flow coming out of the end of the pipe i would say about 3000 litres/hr.He tells me if he had a 3" inlet on pump it would be better but is restricted by borehole diameter.

I think it could achieve a lot better than it's doing in a fixed set up by running it faster but again in their situation they are joining pvc pipes by hand and the extra pressure would hinder the operation.It's 2" inlet/outlet with 25,000 litres on the sticker.

Just found some more info,these particular ones are saying 400 rpm.

https://translate.google.co.th/translate?hl=en&sl=th&u=http://www.leesae.co.th/product_detail.php%3Fid%3D992&prev=search

Edited March 31, 2016 by farmerjo

[thoongfoned]

Just went and looked at the neighbours in operation.

He is using his down a borehole with the water at 12 metres.

He is running a 4" pulley on the tak tak and only got it idling over at i would guess 800 rpm so pump doing around 270 rpm.

Looking out flow coming out of the end of the pipe i would say about 3000 litres/hr.He tells me if he had a 3" inlet on pump it would be better but is restricted by borehole diameter.

I think it could achieve a lot better than it's doing in a fixed set up by running it faster but again in their situation they are joining pvc pipes by hand and the extra pressure would hinder the operation.It's 2" inlet/outlet with 25,000 litres on the sticker.

C360_2016-03-31-14-14-48-357.jpg

Just found some more info,these particular ones are saying 400 rpm.

https://translate.google.co.th/translate?hl=en&sl=th&u=http://www.leesae.co.th/product_detail.php%3Fid%3D992&prev=search

that is how we used to use those type of pumps. got afew of them around the other house, I think the bore we have at the rubber land is 35m..... was drilled 12 years ago now.... if you use a tractor like the one in the photo it will be very cheap on the fuel (but expensive to buy) can just buy the head and put it on a frame. a 100cc or 110cc would do the job very well. if you go down this route look at Kubota more expensive but will last for ever. I think a new 100cc would be 30.ish thousand baht. if this is too expensive go to DO HOME they have Golden bow 110cc for 18.000 baht. at the wifes farm we have both above tractor head units, both would run well past 50 percent throttle all time say on 12 hour shifts 365 days year over many years. Kubota would use less fuel and water than the golden bow but it is a lot cheaper. Kubota about 1.5 litres less a day and less maintance than the golden bow. say max 9 - 10 litres 24 hours aday at plus 50 percent throttle. that is running on a heavy load (ie running through a gear box because of the weight it would be turning - 6 large fans) so if you are just running a fly wheel and cables it would be a lot less fuel...

these sort of engines will drive the pump you have well.

[thoongfoned]

think this one cost about 25 th baht but the golden bow is almost the same..... (first one we bought) can mount it on a frame like this and then move it about. tractor head will weigh approx 110kg with out frame...

[farmerjo]

Canuckamuck,

If you haven't already watched it,go to post 6 and on right hand side click on vdo and go down to pvr-90

It's a video,if your wife is with you she may be able to pick up some extra pointers for you as well as it's in thai.

[canuckamuck]

Learning a lot, seems like 400 RPM is the standard maximum. I will give more consideration to motor types

[Gary A]

Even the large piston pumps don't require a lot of power. I've seen some of the water cooled Chinese diesels as small as 5 HP. I think Kubota's smallest is 8 HP and still pretty expensive. Yanmar is about the same size and price. A lot of the farmers around here use the water cooled Chinese diesels and they seem to run forever. The air cooled diesels run at 3600 RPM and don't last very long.

[BSJ]

The Kubota 9.5Hp (???) we have is a 'Cheap Charlie' when it comes to using diesel. Running an in dam 5" pump at a fast idle, maybe a little more, it runs for 7 or 8 hours on 2 to 2.5 litres of diesel!

That's just a rough estimate. It appears to be about a 10L tank. I estimated it had 8L in it and we ran it for 2 days (about 16 - 17 hours) and it still had a couple of litres in the tank.

The brother in law has an old old one (Brand ???) that runs a 5" pump even slower and he tops it up in the morning with a 1.5L Sprite bottle!

The point I am trying to make is the horizontal diesels with the big flywheel are the best option for stationary use.

We bought ours off a secondhand diesel guy in Sam Ngam, PhiChit Hwy 413 which was 15.000 baht. Newer 12Hp were 21k baht and more. He had some Yanmars and some ancient crappy secondhand two wheel tractors which people where taking an interest in! I made a frame for ours that has worked out well as I can back our little tractor up the bank and drop it off or pick it up.

You may find one in a magazine cheaper, but I wouldn't think much cheaper if it's any good!

[Gary A]

We have a bore hole that is about 50 meters deep. The 1 HP submersible pump is down about 36 meters. I had a 2,500 watt gasoline generator but it wasn't quite up to the job. It ran the pump OK but the start surge was just too much. I took that one home for emergency power and bought a 5,000 watt generator. It doesn't even grunt when starting the pump. Unfortunately it has a very healthy appetite for gasoline. I have a four wheel drive 31 HP Yanmar tractor. The power take off easily drives a 4 inch centrifugal pump but it is definitely overkill since the brother in law can run the same pump with his Chinese water cooled 8 HP engine. We now use an 11 HP Kubota to run the centrifugal pump. It pumps a LOT more water from a pond on just a small amount of fuel. I have decided for future planning to go for a DC submersible pump and run off solar panels. It will run when there is sun and pump into the pond. The Kubota 11 HP will pump water from the pond. I'll be happy to eliminate the hungry gasoline generator. I'm a firm believer in those water cooled single cylinder Kubota type diesels. They run forever on very little fuel.

[farmerjo]

Any updates Canuckamuck on your pump.

[canuckamuck]

The current situation is that there is no water. Which gives me a lot of time to reconsider.

I am thinking about running electricity over there. Which brings me to the question. What size of electric motor would be best?