Do you see Buddhism in everyday life of Thais?

[elgenon]

I am not sure this is the correct forum as I would like the widest possible input.

Do you see Thais practicing Buddhist principles in everyday life? What do you see and what is the Buddhist idea?

I took a taxi to Suvarnabhumi and the driver cut through a small soi so he was able to enter the Highway. The soi was blocked by a van. He simply stopped and turned around and started talking to me. No anger, no drama. When the van eventually moved, we continued on our way. To me this borught home being in the moment and if you can't do anything about it, don't stress over it. Good stuff to experience.

And you?

[AZBill]

Let's just say for the laypeople it's more of an a la carte version of Buddhism. Thais are far more into ceremonies and idol worship than ever espoused or endorsed by the Buddha and for purposes never taught or approved of by the Buddha. But you can also see the positive influence in how Thais live in the present moment, are more patient and have a much less aggressive nature than westerners.

Edited February 14, 2016 by AZBill

[elgenon]

Yes, people have made it into a religion and the dictates must be followed as in any religion.

Buddha, on the other hand, said to question what he said.

[user82374298374]

My girlfriend, who is Thai, is essentially an agnostic. On special Thai Buddhist holidays, she'll go with her sister to light candles or whatever it is they do there, and she wears some sort of amulet, but she isn't one of those who wai at every spirit house or go stay at a temple and fast from meat for a week. She'll even eat beef (mainly Korean BBQ-style), on occasion.

Even though she's been technically trained (she used to work as a QA technician in a hard drive factory, using logic probes and oscilloscopes and such, understands electronics and electricity), she does, however, believe in ghosts to some degree. It's sort of a half-belief; she loves horror movies and scary stories, and if she hears some unexplained noise in the night, she'll sometimes say, "Phi!", half-jokingly.

In terms of her daily life, she never speaks of Buddhist tenets or prays. She tries to treat everyone in her life fairly, but she does have a temper from time to time. She despises people she deems to be stupid - not the uneducated, but those she believes don't reason through things very well.

Edited February 16, 2016 by disambiguated

[ubonjoe]

Two off topic inflammatory posts have been removed.

[FourAces]

The original intent of Buddhism was to be a way of life not a religion of worshiping idols

As preached by Buddha in the texts.

The five basic steps(Precepts) on the way to this way of life are;

1. Don't kill
2. Don't speak ill of anyone/don't lie
3. No drugs or alcohol
4. No adultery
5. Don't Steal

Also dont worship images/statues of the Buddha

Sadly, I have not seen any Thais practicing all of these precepts together, lieing, stealing, adultery and drugs/alcohol are an ingrained part of the culture.

I have been visiting Thailand since 1987 and lived in Thailand for a few years and considered converting to Buddhism, After reading the texts and seeing how Thai's practice their understanding of the faith, mixed in with a loose understanding of Hinduism, i did not convert, but still respect the Thai understanding of Buddhism

Edited February 16, 2016 by FourAces

[ggt]

It is disconcerting...as an observation...to see huge rats eating the foods placed at the Buddha shrines near homes and businesses...

One must wonder if Buddha would approve of feeding rats...and letting people go hungry...

The show must go on...

[rockyysdt]

The original intent of Buddhism was to be a way of life not a religion of worshiping idols

As preached by Buddha in the texts.

The five basic steps(Precepts) on the way to this way of life are;

1. Don't kill
2. Don't speak ill of anyone/don't lie
3. No drugs or alcohol
4. No adultery
5. Don't Steal

Also dont worship images/statues of the Buddha

Sadly, I have not seen any Thais practicing all of these precepts together, lieing, stealing, adultery and drugs/alcohol are an ingrained part of the culture.

I have been visiting Thailand since 1987 and lived in Thailand for a few years and considered converting to Buddhism, After reading the texts and seeing how Thai's practice their understanding of the faith, mixed in with a loose understanding of Hinduism, i did not convert, but still respect the Thai understanding of Buddhism

Hi Fouraces.

I think you'll find the Buddha didn't specify "Adultery".

The Buddha's precept was "Abstain from Sexual Misconduct".

The driver being not to cause harm, rather than anything to do with sin which is subjective.

A lay person refrains from sexual misconduct.

A Monk will sexually abstain, as erring on the safe side ensures harm is never done.

Edited February 16, 2016 by rockyysdt

[asdecas]

Like every other major religion, Buddhism is a smorgasbord of sects, factions and schisms mixed with all manner of superstitions, irrational beliefs and imports from myriad outside sources. So if you are asking whether an ordinary Thai feels what they believe to be true Buddhism impinges on their daily life, I would say yes. Indeed, I'd go further and say that the national character is in large part formed by their beliefs, and that can be seen every day in many ways throughout the country. But that does not necessarily bear much resemblance to what might be termed 'objective' or 'pure' Buddhism.

As a slight aside, the supposed power of amulets and the recent 'look thep' craze are aspects of the Thai version of Buddhism which the Buddha himself would no doubt find hilarious.

[kinmaew]

You will see it when you try to cross the road at a "Crossing" or supposed to be one anyway. Its all for "ME" get out of my way, probably on their way to the temple to make merit for SELF, and that is about it.

[F4UCorsair]

Like every other major religion, Buddhism is a smorgasbord of sects, factions and schisms mixed with all manner of superstitions, irrational beliefs and imports from myriad outside sources. So if you are asking whether an ordinary Thai feels what they believe to be true Buddhism impinges on their daily life, I would say yes. Indeed, I'd go further and say that the national character is in large part formed by their beliefs, and that can be seen every day in many ways throughout the country. But that does not necessarily bear much resemblance to what might be termed 'objective' or 'pure' Buddhism.

As a slight aside, the supposed power of amulets and the recent 'look thep' craze are aspects of the Thai version of Buddhism which the Buddha himself would no doubt find hilarious.

asdecas, Buddhism is not a religon. It's a philosophy on life.

[rockyysdt]

Like every other major religion, Buddhism is a smorgasbord of sects, factions and schisms mixed with all manner of superstitions, irrational beliefs and imports from myriad outside sources. So if you are asking whether an ordinary Thai feels what they believe to be true Buddhism impinges on their daily life, I would say yes. Indeed, I'd go further and say that the national character is in large part formed by their beliefs, and that can be seen every day in many ways throughout the country. But that does not necessarily bear much resemblance to what might be termed 'objective' or 'pure' Buddhism.

As a slight aside, the supposed power of amulets and the recent 'look thep' craze are aspects of the Thai version of Buddhism which the Buddha himself would no doubt find hilarious.

asdecas, Buddhism is not a religon. It's a philosophy on life.

By the way, nice aircraft.

This subject has been debated many times.

Perhaps the prescribed path may constitute philosophy but the end game is a religion.

• To live by Precepts, and to practice both Mindfulness and Concentration, in order to grow Awareness of reality, is philosophical.

• To Awaken into a Permanent & Unconditioned deathless state, in which there is no time, nor form, and in which Awareness permeates the cosmos, is Religion.

Both camps are correct.

Edited February 16, 2016 by rockyysdt

[Coyoti]

The original intent of Buddhism was to be a way of life not a religion of worshiping idols

As preached by Buddha in the texts.

The five basic steps(Precepts) on the way to this way of life are;

1. Don't kill
2. Don't speak ill of anyone/don't lie
3. No drugs or alcohol
4. No adultery
5. Don't Steal

Also dont worship images/statues of the Buddha

Sadly, I have not seen any Thais practicing all of these precepts together, lieing, stealing, adultery and drugs/alcohol are an ingrained part of the culture.

I have been visiting Thailand since 1987 and lived in Thailand for a few years and considered converting to Buddhism, After reading the texts and seeing how Thai's practice their understanding of the faith, mixed in with a loose understanding of Hinduism, i did not convert, but still respect the Thai understanding of Buddhism

When the five lay precepts you mention are spoken at a Theravadan temple they are often preceded by the words, “I undertake the training to …….” I asked a monk in the US about this. His reply was, “It’s a matter of degree. Don’t punish yourself for not strictly keeping a precept. Always strive to do better.” Good advice. The precepts are more like guidelines for living a moral life than they are commandments.

Every day I see people who, in my opinion, aren’t acting in a very Buddha-like way. But then, who am I to judge? I do think that the ritualization of Buddhism in Thailand and elsewhere is lamentable. Personally, I tend more towards the teachings of Ajahn Buddhadasa.

[MeHere]

They are definitely in the here and now, not at all worrying about consequences. I see it in the driving every day.

[rockyysdt]

When the five lay precepts you mention are spoken at a Theravadan temple they are often preceded by the words, “I undertake the training to …….” I asked a monk in the US about this. His reply was, “It’s a matter of degree. Don’t punish yourself for not strictly keeping a precept. Always strive to do better.” Good advice. The precepts are more like guidelines for living a moral life than they are commandments.

Every day I see people who, in my opinion, aren’t acting in a very Buddha-like way. But then, who am I to judge? I do think that the ritualization of Buddhism in Thailand and elsewhere is lamentable. Personally, I tend more towards the teachings of Ajahn Buddhadasa.

Agreed C, however, as "morals" are subjective, I would use the word "ethical" instead.

[zeichen]

Striving for or recognizing the benefit of the 5 precepts is all that is ever required.

How many Christians break the 10 commandments? Answer is all of them. All religions are guides to live a certain path but no one is ever perfect enough to always achieve them.

Personally, I don't see why foreigners here judge the way that Thais practice their religion.

When someone goes against what local practices are, then ok judge away. Don't come to Thailand preaching your Mahayana as the only path.

Of course the other day I did see a couple of younger women doing selfie sexy kiss photos while in the temple waiting for the Monk to bless them. I used it as a perfect example to my daughter of how not to act.

[laislica]

Things change with time.

The more they change, the more they become the same.

IMO, the Thai version of Buddhism is about "Luck"

They seem to be indoctrinated from a very early age to believe that the more they donate to the temples,

the more luck they will have in this and the after life, not to mention reincarnation.

I have said to my wife that I would rather she make merit by giving help to someone poor or crippled.

Donate to a Uni, School, Park or something that will have a chance to benefit more people.

Of course she cannot because she has been taught that giving to temples is the only way to Happiness!

There have been quite a few scandles in Thailand where Monks, male and female are making personal fortunes.

Money laundering, expensive imported cars, handbags etc.

The Roman Catholic Church has also had it's fair share of sex scandals and other corruption.

They become the same.....

The original ideas have long gone and Buddhism, like all the other "Religions" and just money making scams.

It is a great pity IMO.

Many wars have been started with one religion against another.

I seldom see daily life in Thailand showing anyone living by the 5 precepts.

As I have posted before, I see a similarity to the fictional Ferengi characters in Star Trek!

Money and riches - acquisition, first, second and last.

[camerata]

Another inflammatory post has been deleted. This forum is for discussion of Buddhism, not slagging off Thai people in general.

[djlest]

I see fake Buddhism everyday....

The act of BUYING MERIT so that one can have a good future, is hardly unconditional love....

[csabo]

Like every other major religion, Buddhism is a smorgasbord of sects, factions and schisms mixed with all manner of superstitions, irrational beliefs and imports from myriad outside sources. So if you are asking whether an ordinary Thai feels what they believe to be true Buddhism impinges on their daily life, I would say yes. Indeed, I'd go further and say that the national character is in large part formed by their beliefs, and that can be seen every day in many ways throughout the country. But that does not necessarily bear much resemblance to what might be termed 'objective' or 'pure' Buddhism.

As a slight aside, the supposed power of amulets and the recent 'look thep' craze are aspects of the Thai version of Buddhism which the Buddha himself would no doubt find hilarious.

asdecas, Buddhism is not a religon. It's a philosophy on life.

Looks like a business to me. A very profitable one at that.

[F4UCorsair]

Like every other major religion, Buddhism is a smorgasbord of sects, factions and schisms mixed with all manner of superstitions, irrational beliefs and imports from myriad outside sources. So if you are asking whether an ordinary Thai feels what they believe to be true Buddhism impinges on their daily life, I would say yes. Indeed, I'd go further and say that the national character is in large part formed by their beliefs, and that can be seen every day in many ways throughout the country. But that does not necessarily bear much resemblance to what might be termed 'objective' or 'pure' Buddhism.

As a slight aside, the supposed power of amulets and the recent 'look thep' craze are aspects of the Thai version of Buddhism which the Buddha himself would no doubt find hilarious.

asdecas, Buddhism is not a religon. It's a philosophy on life.

Looks like a business to me. A very profitable one at that.

And that is what makes it less of a philosopjy on life, and more like a religion!!

[elgenon]

The original intent of Buddhism was to be a way of life not a religion of worshiping idols

As preached by Buddha in the texts.

The five basic steps(Precepts) on the way to this way of life are;

1. Don't kill
2. Don't speak ill of anyone/don't lie
3. No drugs or alcohol
4. No adultery
5. Don't Steal

Also dont worship images/statues of the Buddha

Sadly, I have not seen any Thais practicing all of these precepts together, lieing, stealing, adultery and drugs/alcohol are an ingrained part of the culture.

I have been visiting Thailand since 1987 and lived in Thailand for a few years and considered converting to Buddhism, After reading the texts and seeing how Thai's practice their understanding of the faith, mixed in with a loose understanding of Hinduism, i did not convert, but still respect the Thai understanding of Buddhism

Hi Fouraces.

I think you'll find the Buddha didn't specify "Adultery".

The Buddha's precept was "Abstain from Sexual Misconduct".

The driver being not to cause harm, rather than anything to do with sin which is subjective.

A lay person refrains from sexual misconduct.

A Monk will sexually abstain, as erring on the safe side ensures harm is never done.

A book I read on Thai Theravada said no sex outside of marriage. Not true? It seems that could be construed as sexual misconduct although it technically doesn't hurt anyone.

[elgenon]

Like every other major religion, Buddhism is a smorgasbord of sects, factions and schisms mixed with all manner of superstitions, irrational beliefs and imports from myriad outside sources. So if you are asking whether an ordinary Thai feels what they believe to be true Buddhism impinges on their daily life, I would say yes. Indeed, I'd go further and say that the national character is in large part formed by their beliefs, and that can be seen every day in many ways throughout the country. But that does not necessarily bear much resemblance to what might be termed 'objective' or 'pure' Buddhism.

As a slight aside, the supposed power of amulets and the recent 'look thep' craze are aspects of the Thai version of Buddhism which the Buddha himself would no doubt find hilarious.

asdecas, Buddhism is not a religon. It's a philosophy on life.

By the way, nice aircraft.

This subject has been debated many times.

Perhaps the prescribed path may constitute philosophy but the end game is a religion.

• To live by Precepts, and to practice both Mindfulness and Concentration, in order to grow Awareness of reality, is philosophical.

• To Awaken into a Permanent & Unconditioned deathless state, in which there is no time, nor form, and in which Awareness permeates the cosmos, is Religion.

Both camps are correct.

Is it true that Buddha said to question what he says?

[elgenon]

I was hoping for more uplifting actual observations. My middle class Thai friends don't show anger, they show kindness and generosity, practice Mindfulness, don't dwell on importance of money and are non-confrontational. Not perfect by any means but I do learn from them. And I am not saying middle class people are better, I just have more opportunity to spend time with them. I have experienced many good things in my relations with poorer people. I think showing respect to all is very important.

[laislica]

I was hoping for more uplifting actual observations. My middle class Thai friends don't show anger, they show kindness and generosity, practice Mindfulness, don't dwell on importance of money and are non-confrontational. Not perfect by any means but I do learn from them. And I am not saying middle class people are better, I just have more opportunity to spend time with them. I have experienced many good things in my relations with poorer people. I think showing respect to all is very important.

Not wanting to be "Holier than thou", but IMO......

Perhaps this is why poor people spend so much of the little they have on the lotteries?

The lotteries give them hope that they will escape their poverty trap?

The middle class are reasonably well off and don't "religiously" "do" the lottery?

They have no need.

I see this in the East and West in equal measure.

The Thai version of Buddhism gives hope that they will escape from their daily struggle with life for both this and the after life. Therefore, the more Tamboon the better?

My wife prays every day, she Wai's every time we pass a temple, she cooks exotic food to give to the Monks along with flowers and gift baskets, plus cash and always the folding stuff.

She knows how I feel about the whole "Religion thing" but I do not discourage her, other than to suggest a better use of these funds to help really needy people. Up to her and far be it for me to interfere with her way of life.

She is a good person who controls anger, is forgiving and kind.

She will help friends without question but the indoctrination to give to the Monks goes very deep - to her core.

As a Catholic teacher told my Mum 90 years ago, give me a child to the age of 7 and she will be a Catholic for life.

Religions require blind faith, never question anything.

Buddha denied that he was a God, he wanted people to live in harmony, he did not want to be worshiped.

When I see Monks dressed in expensive vestments, wearing expensive watches and gold, driving expensive imported cars etc., I despair for they are the role models for Buddhism.

I have read that Monks have 227-250 precepts to follow and that these rules were laid down by the Buddha himself. According to the Buddha, there are seven levels of offenses for failing to keep the precepts.

However all this is the creation of man, not a God....... and Man is fallible, cruel and greedy!

After retirement, I had a discussion with my then English g/f and I asked what she thought our purpose was now, it the later stages of our lives.

Having procreated and brought our children up to be decent, law abiding human beings and now with their own children.

She said that perhaps we should bring some calmness into the world.

Our need to rush, to achieve, to acquire to be able to take care of our families was over.

That perhaps we should give way to others who still have the needs.

We both changed our driving practice and started to allow other drivers to enter the traffic stream.

Opened doors for others and generally became mindful of the needs of others.

Easy to do when we have sufficient resources but another story if we were poor?

Thai culture relies on children to take care of their parents and elders. Pensions to the general public don't exist in any meaningful way. There are millions on the bread line.

With this in mind, I am not surprised when I see supposed Buddhist Thai's behaving - badly.

I agree with you that the middle class Thai's are where one needs to look to see more Buddha like styles of life.

[hawker9000]

I have spoken to a few middle-aged Thais who tell me that they don't often go to temple or even take the religious holudays too seriously: they seem to sense something fundamentally wrong with Buddhism as commonly practiced and say they choose instead to "keep Buddha in their hearts". I've often wondered myself how much of Thai Buddhism is ritualistic veneer and how much the actual core doctrine.

Obviously the same for most organized religion, now and throughout history.

[camerata]

Another off-topic post slagging off Buddhism has been deleted. The OP asked if we see Buddhist principles applied in everyday life.

Please stick to the topic and follow the Buddhism forum rules:

"Do keep in mind that Buddhism, along with the Thai monarchy, is one of the most respected social institutions in Thailand. Posts whose primary purpose is to slag off Buddhism in general or Thai Buddhism in particular are not welcome. Such posts will be edited or deleted immediately, and the member will be warned and/or suspended."

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/61517-a-welcome-message-posting-guidelines/

[AYJAYDEE]

The original intent of Buddhism was to be a way of life not a religion of worshiping idols

As preached by Buddha in the texts.

The five basic steps(Precepts) on the way to this way of life are;

1. Don't kill
2. Don't speak ill of anyone/don't lie
3. No drugs or alcohol
4. No adultery
5. Don't Steal

Also dont worship images/statues of the Buddha

Sadly, I have not seen any Thais practicing all of these precepts together, lieing, stealing, adultery and drugs/alcohol are an ingrained part of the culture.

I have been visiting Thailand since 1987 and lived in Thailand for a few years and considered converting to Buddhism, After reading the texts and seeing how Thai's practice their understanding of the faith, mixed in with a loose understanding of Hinduism, i did not convert, but still respect the Thai understanding of Buddhism

how would one go about "coverting" to buddhism? you either believe in the truth of the dhamma or you dont.

[rockyysdt]

"Belief" is a motivator I try to avoid.

Belief and truth are often not aligned.

Rather than belief, I prefer discovering truth through awareness.

Edited March 8, 2016 by rockyysdt

[F4UCorsair]

I see them going through the motions, lighting candles, wai'ing in front of Buddha images, but when it's translated to everyday life, a lot of the ideals seem to be forgotten, and it becomes a dog eat dog mentality. Hindus in Bali are the same, preaching that karma will get them if they don't behave well, but it means little in everyday life.

They screw each other mercilessly in business, drive like maniacs with no thought for others, jump queues and push through groups, along with probably a dozen other things that could be considered anti Buddhist, but I guess they are no different than Christians....ever heard the expression "Sunday Morning Christian"??