Fake G-to-G rice deals: Boonsong and 21 associates may face 20bn baht in compensation

[scorecard]

News flash. No indictment and conviction yet. You should be familiar with the term innocent until proven guilty even when you have a feeling that the this junta government has lots to justify for the coup.

Eric - you have been defending the PTP since day one, when will you ever admit they are corrupt as well? Do you still fail to see the corruption and the failure of the Rice Scheme? the loss that it caused the country? Even if the court convicts them, you will say the court was bias, junta blah blah. So news flash, people of thailand don't need the courts to proof anything, its all out there, Thai politicians have thick face and are not afraid to lie to the public. Even when they are caught, their skin are so thick that they will never admit their mistakes and are continuing trying to twist and turn, making up lame excuses.

That westerners so often believe that one side is "good" and the other not is just plain ridiculous in Thailand.

News Flash: The entire country is corrupt and dishonest as a rule, not exception.

Where would one side have acquired the moral framework for honesty and selflessness that the other did not?

It's plain foolish to cheer for any of these corrupt thugs in suits.

I will never cheer for any of those corrupted politicians, civil servants and men in uniform and certainly will never cheer for judiciary being politicized. I long for the day that the judiciary and the independent corruption agencies will be apolitical. The current reforms must make serious attempt to improve the selection process of office bearers. The perception of most Thais are rather negative of these offices staying neutral to their profession.

No disagreement whatever.

I add, let's hope for very strong punishment for both sides:

- Judges who are bent.

- Politicians (and whoever) who bride, interfere with, threaten or harass the judiciary.

I suspect nobody would disagree, until the punishment (where guilty) is very severe, probably need to include long jail time, it ain't going to stop.

I also go for long-term public shaming of those found guilty.

Edited February 16, 2016 by scorecard

[Jonmarleesco]

The deals weren't fake. Boonsong said so at the time. But national security concerns prevented him from providing details.

[tbthailand]

Eric - you have been defending the PTP since day one, when will you ever admit they are corrupt as well? Do you still fail to see the corruption and the failure of the Rice Scheme? the loss that it caused the country? Even if the court convicts them, you will say the court was bias, junta blah blah. So news flash, people of thailand don't need the courts to proof anything, its all out there, Thai politicians have thick face and are not afraid to lie to the public. Even when they are caught, their skin are so thick that they will never admit their mistakes and are continuing trying to twist and turn, making up lame excuses.

Pointing out the fact that people are innocent until proven guilty is not defending anyone, it is defending the process of justice.

And that, in spite of the fact that the process of justice in Thailand is highly suspect.

This erosion of democracy happens to coincide with the rise of juristocracy last decade. If the draft charter gets the nod, we will see more power to the courts and independent agencies and more conflicts.

Well the erosion of democracy get a big boost the day the paymaster 'won' the first election.

In the last of his governments (gangs of paid yes men with a fake PM) democracy was eroded enormously, all according to his master plan to create his dictatorship.

and now we have a real one, ...

so is that what you were cheering for all along?

[tbthailand]

Hope their legal team have some better ideas than this piffle.

They bought rice from the government stockpile at the lower "export" price. Only their export orders were fraudulent. Then they sold the rice locally at a higher price and pocketed a bigger profit for themselves.

The difference between the export price to buyers for genuine export and the higher price for sales intended to be re-sold locally is one loss. And of course, simply re-funding that loss and pretending everything is "squared" off is not the remedy that seemingly is being sort.

Interesting how the Shin clan and their cronies think that simply handing back something you've stolen or cheated makes it all alright and good to go.

Get caught doing the crime, be prepared to do the time, and/or pay the cost.

I have not seen a press release with the inner workings of the scheme by the prosecutor as you describe. Where where these details released pertaining to this new case?

The information I have seen reported says that they sold the rice to two Chinese companies and these companies did not export the rice, but resold it in Thailand. The claim by the NACC was that the Chinese companies were not acting on behalf of the Chinese government and that the rice was not exported.

As someone else pointed out, there is corruption at every level of Thai society, so it's banal to claim the obvious in this case.

The 20bn Bhat damages figure appears to have been pulled out of the NACC's collective behinds. As have been all the figures of "damages" in the various rice cases.

[tbthailand]

News flash. No indictment and conviction yet. You should be familiar with the term innocent until proven guilty even when you have a feeling that the this junta government has lots to justify for the coup.

Eric - you have been defending the PTP since day one, when will you ever admit they are corrupt as well? Do you still fail to see the corruption and the failure of the Rice Scheme? the loss that it caused the country? Even if the court convicts them, you will say the court was bias, junta blah blah. So news flash, people of thailand don't need the courts to proof anything, its all out there, Thai politicians have thick face and are not afraid to lie to the public. Even when they are caught, their skin are so thick that they will never admit their mistakes and are continuing trying to twist and turn, making up lame excuses.

Pointing out the fact that people are innocent until proven guilty is not defending anyone, it is defending the process of justice.

And that, in spite of the fact that the process of justice in Thailand is highly suspect.

So perhaps you could comment on the lack of any form of justice for the folks gunned down, including women and children, during the paymasters 'era'?

sure I could. There are many examples of injustice in Thailand. Speaking of gunning people down, I mention the most violent faction of Thai society quite often.

But of course that has nothing to do with this particular thread, does it?

[Dumbastheycome]

While the earnest PM is vigorously busy in eradicating fake products from the Thai markets, right here,

in front of all the nation, a giant conspiracy to defraud the nation is going on with FAKE deals

by non others that government's ministers and their lackeys......

I would really appreciate an explanation of the latter part of that? Or is it an ambiguous reference to and confused with previous Government ?

As to the original issue in this thread there can be no mistaking the complicity , intent, or responsibility all the way to the top !

Flogging a dead horse only achieves a tired arm.

[scorecard]

Well the erosion of democracy get a big boost the day the paymaster 'won' the first election.

In the last of his governments (gangs of paid yes men with a fake PM) democracy was eroded enormously, all according to his master plan to create his dictatorship.

and now we have a real one, ...

so is that what you were cheering for all along?

Your comment could spark a range of further comments, right now I'll focus on just one:

"Well the erosion of democracy get a big boost the day the paymaster 'won' the first election.

In the last of his governments (gangs of paid yes men with a fake PM) democracy was eroded enormously, all according to his master plan to create his dictatorship."

[scorecard]

Those poor children murdered by terrorists, whose murder was cheered and applauded openly by senior PTP, red shirts and their non elected leaders when announced were certainly innocent too.

The process of justice is somewhat meandering and puzzling to foreigners, but let's see how the trial goes before anyone is convicted or shown to be innocent.

And right there '... senior PTP, red shirts and their non elected leaders ...' a great example of lack of democracy.

...

Remember Ms. Yingluck is a champion prepared to die on the battlefield of democracy - 555!

We've all seen how one leader, one family, one party can work. And it ain't got anything to do with democracy!

'I cannot step down, I have to stay to protect democracy'.

Fake comment from a fake pm.

[tbthailand]

Well the erosion of democracy get a big boost the day the paymaster 'won' the first election.

In the last of his governments (gangs of paid yes men with a fake PM) democracy was eroded enormously, all according to his master plan to create his dictatorship.

and now we have a real one, ...

so is that what you were cheering for all along?

Your comment could spark a range of further comments, right now I'll focus on just one:

"Well the erosion of democracy get a big boost the day the paymaster 'won' the first election.

In the last of his governments (gangs of paid yes men with a fake PM) democracy was eroded enormously, all according to his master plan to create his dictatorship."

so the answer is "yes"... ?

[tbthailand]

Those poor children murdered by terrorists, whose murder was cheered and applauded openly by senior PTP, red shirts and their non elected leaders when announced were certainly innocent too.

The process of justice is somewhat meandering and puzzling to foreigners, but let's see how the trial goes before anyone is convicted or shown to be innocent.

And right there '... senior PTP, red shirts and their non elected leaders ...' a great example of lack of democracy.

...

Remember Ms. Yingluck is a champion prepared to die on the battlefield of democracy - 555!

We've all seen how one leader, one family, one party can work. And it ain't got anything to do with democracy!

'I cannot step down, I have to stay to protect democracy'.

Fake comment from a fake pm.

well, fake in your mind, elected in the real world...

Of course, in comparison to the self-appointed "PM" she was no wordsmith...

"Democracy will never die from Thailand because I am a democratic soldier but I stay in power because I want democracy to survive”

[scorecard]

The deals weren't fake. Boonsong said so at the time. But national security concerns prevented him from providing details.

I guess that'a a sarcasm item.

[halloween]

I can understand the charge that the G-G rice sale was a fake. The rice was purchased by the accused from the External Trade Department that handles exports. But Instead of rice actually being sold to the Chinese government, it was sold locally.¹

So there was wrongdoing in the misrepresentation of the buyer and possible official conflict of interest. But how do damages to the government apply?

The rice came from Yingluck’s rice pledge program stockpile wherein the government originally agreed to pay twice the then market price for the rice from farmers when it was sold. So to create damage to the government, did the accused purchase the rice at less than market price, essentially stealing part of the real profit margin?

Or did the accused purchase the rice at actual market price that would have triggered farmer payments at twice market price? This would create a loss to the government. But Yingluck is being sued for that damage. If Boonsong and 21 associates (actually the merger of two separate cases!) are charged with 20bn baht, will the charge for compensation against Yingluck be reduced by 20nb baht?

When you set aside the political passions, there's a lot of inadequate explanations about grounds for compensation.

1. http://news.thaivisa.com/thailand/three-executives-and-four-firms-indicted-in-fake-g-to-g-rice-deal/128049/

Typical obfuscation. The loss to the government caused by the fake G2G deals is easily calculated as the difference between the money received from the G2G deals, and the money that would have been received if the same quantity/quality of rice was sold to companies for domestic marketing. As the G2G price was apparently considerably discounted (though never revealed), the sum is likely substantial.

FYI, if irrelevant, the damage attributable to Yingluk would be the difference between the expected domestic sales and the price paid to the farmer, plus milling,transport, wastage and storage costs.

[scorecard]

The deals weren't fake. Boonsong said so at the time. But national security concerns prevented him from providing details.

In other words a minister telling blatant lies, and no hesitation to use very serious terms 'national security' to totally dishonestly cover his own very dirty dealings.

But he had company in the telling lies department. Birds of a feather...

[MorristheRunt]

If these people are found guilty they should also be charged with treason.

Then I hope the authorities also go after the people in brown and green uniforms whom have amassed enormous wealth by mysterious ways!

But as this is Thailand that is simply not going to happen, especially when the PM wears a green uniform under his extensive, and ever expanding collection of Saville Row handmade suits.