Evidence from UK's National Crime Agency 'critical' in sentencing Koh Tao killers to death

[stephenterry]

So now we get a taste of how this thread is going. Engage at your peril. Eventually, every attempt at responding will be met by two or three verbose replies full of infuriating deceit and misdirection, and the thread will soon go haywire. Just look at the Luke Miller thread to see where this one's going.

OK so Bomer's posts are verbose but I don't think they're infuriating -- just verbose.

(Analogy time): It's like a Burns & Allen routine where George Burns would ask Gracie about her Uncle Herman in Milwaukee and Gracie would then ramble on incoherently for the next 20 minutes while George would just stand there not saying a word and smoke his cigar.

Does Nok Air fly to Milwaukee?

IMO, Boomers lengthy summation of the abject weaknesses in the RTP investigation are reasonable and rational. But as there is no higher authority to question that, or even the willingness to do so, it will be unchallenged. Pity.

[Moonsterk]

If someone states, that Andy Hall, by exposing slave- labor, is "embarrassing the nation" ...that says a lot about that someone and the way, this person perceives Thailand and its justice system! Maybe a discussion about the problems at hand, should be engaged very, very carefully!

.

Not how I view it, but how a Thai judge just might. Andy Hall consistently embarrasses Thailand with his annoying reports dissing our accountability...Grrrrrr I don't think his clients are innocent no matter what ..... Grrrrr

[Moonsterk]

Oh thank you aleg for bringing that to the forum attention.

I have read parts of it, but will read in full later. The noids will certainly be upset, but at the end of the day we should read all of the information available. I see that Davids inquest is in.

Yes better catch up on your homework seems your lagging somewhat dear, this was first brought to the forums and everyone elses attention when Andy Hall first tweeted it 5 weeks ago. [noids].............bless

Jan 13, 2016 - Andy Hall @Atomicalandy Jan 13. MWRN Justice: Koh Tao Murder Case fundraiser provides full court verdict English translation ...

I wonder if Andy Hall, being on trial himself for defamation and generally disrespecting Thailand in many migrant labor issue-( all deserved no doubt,) was a detriment factor to the Burmese boys defense.

Not questioning his motives, (though have read some interesting arguments pertaining to that-) but to have him sitting there, did it grate upon the judges I wonder?

It's easy to criticize others (and your tone is always quite provocative...) but what have you done lately to help others less fortunate ?

Should Andy Hall let all the thai companies exploit their slaves in peace ?

He sure is helping a lot of people, and media attention is part of the game, of course he is seaking it...

As for his involvment in the defense, I don't think he should have testified, he played a good part at giving the attention this case deserved, but he should have used experts instead of testifying himself, the judges found his testimony irrelevant and didn't use what he provided.

We all agree the defense didn't do a perfect job, they did what they could with what they were provided with though...

Hope the appeal will be better. I really don't think the B2 will ever be executed.

If my tone is always quite provocative, it's because you do not like my opinion, perhaps?

but what have you done lately to help others less fortunate ?

Is asking such a question is really part of the rules on discourse here? Is it even relevant?

I don't think he should have been seen anywhere near this case. He is on trial for embarrasing the nation, which is pretty much his occupation. We can argue whether it's deserved or not on another thread, regardless I think his presence was not very smart and to continue to allow it in an appeal could be considered malpractice on part of the lead attorney.

Your tone does sound provocative certainly not a Sweet tone it looks like you are trying to make problems.

I' m making observations on posts here that are based on conjecture, and offer little in way of facts, why does my tone need to be sweet?

If I'm provoking thought, well good.

[jayjay78]

Yep, there you with the name calling, does your "cause" absolutely no good, just shows your frustration. You just don’t get it, these killers were apprehended and charged and convicted. The prosecution and defence presented their case and provide counter arguments. They had the power of the judicial process to protect their rights.

& they still have a right of appeal

[stephenterry]

Yep, there you with the name calling, does your "cause" absolutely no good, just shows your frustration. You just don’t get it, these killers were apprehended and charged and convicted. The prosecution and defence presented their case and provide counter arguments. They had the power of the judicial process to protect their rights.

You just don’t get it, these killers scapegoats were apprehended and charged and convicted. The prosecution and defence presented their case and provide counter arguments. They had the power of the judicial process to protect their rights.

As it happens, their rights are continuing to be protected while the appeals process takes its course.

[Khun Han]

And he's off and running, flooding the thread with his misdirection. Here we go.....

[StealthEnergiser]

If someone states, that Andy Hall, by exposing slave- labor, is "embarrassing the nation" ...that says a lot about that someone and the way, this person perceives Thailand and its justice system! Maybe a discussion about the problems at hand, should be engaged very, very carefully!

We know for a fact that the trolls want us to engage as that is the only way the threads will be closed down , I have now decided never to answer a koh tao troll again.

[jayjay78]

So now we get a taste of how this thread is going. Engage at your peril. Eventually, every attempt at responding will be met by two or three verbose replies full of infuriating deceit and misdirection, and the thread will soon go haywire. Just look at the Luke Miller thread to see where this one's going.

Nothing's changed. Nowadays, I refrain for engaging with any that post inflammatory comments. If a poster is not going to accept an account by a reputable Sky News reporter, then that's his problem, not mine. Although speculation, I wouldn't be surprised if more people were threatened by the Thai mafia, but kept quiet.

Clearly, AH is an irritant to Thai authorities, but he's high enough profile as to be only subjected to repeat court appearances and ongoing hassle. It is also my understanding that the Appeals court examine only the written appeal, which must be based on the existing 'evidence', and do not call upon any witnesses while considering their verdict. In which case, AH would not be called before the court.

Thats also how its been explained to me. The appeal is a paperwork exercise, there will be no expert witnesses from the defense or prosecution in attendance. The Aus experts will be submitting their reports as affidavit, thats one of the reasons its taken longer to prepare as all the translations need to be perfect.

All this talk by some that the appeal process is going to go down the pan because of having western lawyers/experts at the appeal court is nonsense. There are no plans for this to happen unless the appeal judges specifically request this.

[Moonsterk]

This is a theory like many other theories, is it possible to make it to Bangkok that fast ? Yes I guess so but that would mean a lot of luck on the way ,

Nomsod was not seen on the island , he was not seen at the airport , unless airport officials suddenly decided to hide CCTV images after a call from the influential "mafia" dad. This is all far-out speculations.

Nomsod is shown in the 3 Running Man videos. Nomsod is probably shown in parts of the 59 hours of videos that RTP won't show - and that's not counting the hours of CCTV which Mon refused to hand over to RTP. ....and not counting the CCTV which RTP deemed "too unimportant to even look at" , which may have shown boats leaving the island in the hour after the crime. And there's Maung Maung, a Burmese DJ at AC bar who is said to have claimed to have seen NS in one of the bars that Sunday night. No one is surprises that MM the DJ split to Burma, never to be heard from. Of course, prosecution didn't want the other MM (formerly of the B3) testifying. He also split to Burma, to be incognito. And RTP/prosecution didn't want anything from Sean - who similarly was scooted out of Thailand a.s.a.p. and not heard from again. Those are 3 potential witnesses which Thai authorities (working hand in hand with the Headman's people) don't want to hear a peep from. There are probably others. Even Thai cops admitted that some islanders are too afraid to speak the truth of what they heard/saw.

As for airport: Can we see CCTV of passengers entering or leaving that Monday morning flight to Bkk from Chumpon? Can we see the passenger manifest? Of course not. It's all part of the bungled cover-up which goes all the way up to the self-appointed PM. We, the general public seeking truth & justice will also never see/hear about cell phone histories from that night and the next day. Similarly, we will never see/hear about any money transactions between the Headman's people (including Mon, Headman's wife, NS, NS's lawyer) which likely involved top brass cops. RTP aren't going to incriminate themselves, are they? ha ha ha, they're laughing all the way to the bank. While Nomsod can dress in flimsy white cotton smock with a gold crown, showing the world what a devout lovely Buddhist boy he is.

Note: Bribing is common in Thailand. It's more often done indirectly, rather than from a principle player to the other principle player. It's more common for money or valuables to be transferred clandestinely via a family member or trusted acquaintance. Thaksin transferred money to his chauffeur and maid. Later, he had agents try to transfer money to a judge. A lawyer is often a good conduit, because even if he's caught carrying something, he can claim 'lawyer/client confidentiality.' On the day after the OJ murders in L.A., OJ's lawyer went in alone to visit OJ at his mansion, then came out carrying a suitcase. Cops couldn't stop or search the lawyer, who was grinning the whole time the press cameras were on him. Go figure.

Nomsod is shown in the 3 Running Man videos. Nomsod is probably shown in parts of the 59 hours of videos that RTP won't show - and that's not counting the hours of CCTV which Mon refused to hand over to RTP. ....and not counting the CCTV which RTP deemed "too unimportant to even look at" , which may have shown boats leaving the island in the hour after the crime.[/

None of above is is established as fact, but was repeated through FB memes until it was

Was Nom Sod on the island? OK I'll buy that But it doesn't exonerate the B-2 for involvement in rape which is what one of them is guilty of IMO That is what the thread is about

[Moonsterk]

Exactly, no name, no nothing, no quotes from local press, just crap reporting.

This is a direct named quote however and maybe should be listened to?

Ms Witheridge's family said: "Speculation, rumour and theory have been incredibly hurtful to our family and Hannah's friends, making an already unthinkable time harder to bear.

Do you think Sky News would also name the translator LOL

Responsible press would make a statement to the effect of the translator wished to remain anonymous. Why not here? Because the reporter is reprinting hearsay, is why.

How can anyone seriously take this crap as fact ? It's hearsay and I think there is a concerted effort to make a lot of this hearsay and conjecture accepted as fact on this thread, which is why I will continue to point out this dis-information.

Why would people do it? They lke to feel involved, they like having erred meme circulated endlessly on FB - they like attention, adoration and assorted internet stroking.

Crab kindly posted his twitter account. Why don't you ask him directly if your so unhappy with his reporting, please come back and report with an update, until then I have other things to do but promise to find time to ignore you when I return.

https://twitter.com/jonathansamuels

Crab? So because you know his nicname, am I to ignore he posts unsubstantiated info on his twitter account too?

Please post up what you want me to look at, that report is from last year, and I'm not scrolling through the entire Twitter feed

[007cableguy]

Is it actually established translators were threatened? Or is it gossip based on hearsay, gone through some revisions as such is known to do?

The problem as I see with all the conspiracy theories, why I'm not convinced in the latest one at least, is a regular reliance on repeating messages so as to turn them into facts- such as above.

I'm almost convinced there is a small group of gossip mongers, a gaggle I've seen written, based on Samui who have never had their narrative of events challenged in a public manner. They control local press, issue FB meme based on errors, attempt various FB bannings, issue personal attacks on forums, and otherwise attempt censor any kind of discourse that counters their scripts.

While I was of the general impression Nom Sod and clan may well have been guilty as hell, and the B-2 not involved, just reading the seriously deficient arguments here has me wondering. Did the B-2 ( or just the one) partake into the initial rape party? Did he actually drag his friend into the accusation in order to give himself an alibi, which backfired a bit, especially for the friend?

Meanwhile a Thai translator being used by Sky News in court has said she's been "warned off" helping journalists by the Thai "Mafia".

http://news.sky.com/story/1515906/backpacker-murder-dna-setback-for-defence

Exactly, no name, no nothing, no quotes from local press, just crap reporting.

This is a direct named quote however and maybe should be listened to?

Ms Witheridge's family said: "Speculation, rumour and theory have been incredibly hurtful to our family and Hannah's friends, making an already unthinkable time harder to bear

​Maybe you should read what Hannah's sister wrote on her facebook page,

Stating that they were unhappy with the RTP and threats made to the family and also putting a link to the anonymous site stating that the B2 are scapegoats or does that not fit to what you want to believe!!

[JLCrab]

So now we get a taste of how this thread is going. Engage at your peril. Eventually, every attempt at responding will be met by two or three verbose replies full of infuriating deceit and misdirection, and the thread will soon go haywire. Just look at the Luke Miller thread to see where this one's going.

OK so Bomer's posts are verbose but I don't think they're infuriating -- just verbose.

(Analogy time): It's like a Burns & Allen routine where George Burns would ask Gracie about her Uncle Herman in Milwaukee and Gracie would then ramble on incoherently for the next 20 minutes while George would just stand there not saying a word and smoke his cigar.

Does Nok Air fly to Milwaukee?

IMO, Boomers lengthy summation of the abject weaknesses in the RTP investigation are reasonable and rational. But as there is no higher authority to question that, or even the willingness to do so, it will be unchallenged. Pity.

Nok Air doesn't fly to Milwaukee but they fly only twice per day from ChumPhon to Don Muang so the diligent student who wanted to be in class on time Monday morning would probably take the 7:30 PM flight Sunday evening the night before rather than make 'desperate' efforts to get to the Monday morning 7:20 Am flight.

(Analogy time take 2) But that's like being asked do you want it explained in the 2 minute version or the 20 minute version and you say "I'll take the 2 minute version" and they say "Sorry -- the 2 minute version is sold out so you'll have to listen to the 20 minute version."

Edited February 25, 2016 by JLCrab

[Moonsterk]

Is it actually established translators were threatened? Or is it gossip based on hearsay, gone through some revisions as such is known to do?

The problem as I see with all the conspiracy theories, why I'm not convinced in the latest one at least, is a regular reliance on repeating messages so as to turn them into facts- such as above.

I'm almost convinced there is a small group of gossip mongers, a gaggle I've seen written, based on Samui who have never had their narrative of events challenged in a public manner. They control local press, issue FB meme based on errors, attempt various FB bannings, issue personal attacks on forums, and otherwise attempt censor any kind of discourse that counters their scripts.

While I was of the general impression Nom Sod and clan may well have been guilty as hell, and the B-2 not involved, just reading the seriously deficient arguments here has me wondering. Did the B-2 ( or just the one) partake into the initial rape party? Did he actually drag his friend into the accusation in order to give himself an alibi, which backfired a bit, especially for the friend?

Meanwhile a Thai translator being used by Sky News in court has said she's been "warned off" helping journalists by the Thai "Mafia".

http://news.sky.com/story/1515906/backpacker-murder-dna-setback-for-defence

Exactly, no name, no nothing, no quotes from local press, just crap reporting.

This is a direct named quote however and maybe should be listened to?

Ms Witheridge's family said: "Speculation, rumour and theory have been incredibly hurtful to our family and Hannah's friends, making an already unthinkable time harder to bear

​Maybe you should read what Hannah's sister wrote on her facebook page,

Stating that they were unhappy with the RTP and threats made to the family and also putting a link to the anonymous site stating that the B2 are scapegoats or does that not fit to what you want to believe!!

Anonymous? Ok now you really are joking. Anonymous FB pages , and especially that one " We are..." are run by the mother of all conspiracy theorists. Check out the crap regularly run on 9-11.. I think they are pushing the big planet landing soon, too.

Anyway, the Witheridges are perfectly able to change their mind toward the proceedings. My highlighted quote was off the article from last year, offered up as some kind of evidence for a systemic stitch up of the B-2.

[Khun Han]

So now we get a taste of how this thread is going. Engage at your peril. Eventually, every attempt at responding will be met by two or three verbose replies full of infuriating deceit and misdirection, and the thread will soon go haywire. Just look at the Luke Miller thread to see where this one's going.

OK so Bomer's posts are verbose but I don't think they're infuriating -- just verbose.

(Analogy time): It's like a Burns & Allen routine where George Burns would ask Gracie about her Uncle Herman in Milwaukee and Gracie would then ramble on incoherently for the next 20 minutes while George would just stand there not saying a word and smoke his cigar.

Does Nok Air fly to Milwaukee?

IMO, Boomers lengthy summation of the abject weaknesses in the RTP investigation are reasonable and rational. But as there is no higher authority to question that, or even the willingness to do so, it will be unchallenged. Pity.

Nok Air doesn't fly to Milwaukee but they fly only twice per day from ChumPhon to Don Muang so the diligent student who wanted to be in class on time Monday morning would probably take the 7:30 PM flight Sunday evening the night before rather than make 'desperate' efforts to get to the Monday morning 7:20 Am flight.

But if he was busy with his rape gang the night before, and having a particularly busy night because an attempted rape had gone ballistic, he'd be inclined to make the mad dash for the early morning flight. Edited February 25, 2016 by Khun Han

[JLCrab]

Maybe so but Bomer has said that he already had purchased the ticket because he knew that he had to be in class Monday morning.

[canuckamuck]

Crab, you make it like this is his first trip from KT to BKK after a night of partying. Logically he had done it many times before and very probably already had things lined up for this trip. Nothing for him to figure out. This was a milk run for him.

[JLCrab]

Crab, you make it like this is his first trip from KT to BKK after a night of partying. Logically he had done it many times before and very probably already had things lined up for this trip. Nothing for him to figure out. This was a milk run for him.

I agree but the efforts to leave the island at around 5 or 6 AM or so to make the flight have been described as 'desperate' efforts -- if this was a milk run he would probably get the speedboat several hours earlier. And from all accounts, the guy, after a hard night of partying, might just routinely say: " Screw it -- so I'm late for class." and catch a later more convenient flight from Samui or Surat Thani.

As long as I'm here, the trial report suggested that the prosecution introduced evidence that no one was seen bothering or following the late Ms. Witheridge:

"The senior investigating officer did insist there was no evidence to suggest she was followed from the bar."

So as this was direct testimony introduced by the prosecution, the defense would have been able to introduce its own witnesses or evidence to refute the statement. They didn't.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/hannah_witheridge_murder_trial_defence_team_hope_to_re_test_crucial_forensic_evidence_1_4164482

Edited February 25, 2016 by JLCrab

[Moonsterk]

So now we get a taste of how this thread is going. Engage at your peril. Eventually, every attempt at responding will be met by two or three verbose replies full of infuriating deceit and misdirection, and the thread will soon go haywire. Just look at the Luke Miller thread to see where this one's going.

Nothing's changed. Nowadays, I refrain for engaging with any that post inflammatory comments. If a poster is not going to accept an account by a reputable Sky News reporter, then that's his problem, not mine. Although speculation, I wouldn't be surprised if more people were threatened by the Thai mafia, but kept quiet.

Clearly, AH is an irritant to Thai authorities, but he's high enough profile as to be only subjected to repeat court appearances and ongoing hassle. It is also my understanding that the Appeals court examine only the written appeal, which must be based on the existing 'evidence', and do not call upon any witnesses while considering their verdict. In which case, AH would not be called before the court.

So why was an irritant allowed to be seen as participating in this defense? What was the gain?

[stephenterry]

So now we get a taste of how this thread is going. Engage at your peril. Eventually, every attempt at responding will be met by two or three verbose replies full of infuriating deceit and misdirection, and the thread will soon go haywire. Just look at the Luke Miller thread to see where this one's going.

Nothing's changed. Nowadays, I refrain for engaging with any that post inflammatory comments. If a poster is not going to accept an account by a reputable Sky News reporter, then that's his problem, not mine. Although speculation, I wouldn't be surprised if more people were threatened by the Thai mafia, but kept quiet.

Clearly, AH is an irritant to Thai authorities, but he's high enough profile as to be only subjected to repeat court appearances and ongoing hassle. It is also my understanding that the Appeals court examine only the written appeal, which must be based on the existing 'evidence', and do not call upon any witnesses while considering their verdict. In which case, AH would not be called before the court.

So why was an irritant allowed to be seen as participating in this defense? What was the gain?

Ask him. He has a twitter/FB page.

Edited February 25, 2016 by stephenterry

[smedly]

I think, in a way, that would be giving in to trolling, but I think this outbursts of paranoia are very telling.

The full document of the verdict report is available in both the original Thai version and English translation.

Since that document reflects the outcome of the trial, where the arguments of the prosecution and defense were presented in full and contested by each other it represents the most accurate summation of relevant events and evidence about the case.

Then people can compare and contrast that with make believe scenarios and see what makes more sense.

the court document is based on the case presented by Thai police/prosecution and is just as reliable, some here say it is a flawed judgement based on a flawed case - so it is a meaningless contribution to this discussion - you either believe the case presented or you don't - there have been many reasons presented on these Koh Tao discussions the cast extreme doubt

[smedly]

Is it actually established translators were threatened? Or is it gossip based on hearsay, gone through some revisions as such is known to do?

The problem as I see with all the conspiracy theories, why I'm not convinced in the latest one at least, is a regular reliance on repeating messages so as to turn them into facts- such as above.

I'm almost convinced there is a small group of gossip mongers, a gaggle I've seen written, based on Samui who have never had their narrative of events challenged in a public manner. They control local press, issue FB meme based on errors, attempt various FB bannings, issue personal attacks on forums, and otherwise attempt censor any kind of discourse that counters their scripts.

While I was of the general impression Nom Sod and clan may well have been guilty as hell, and the B-2 not involved, just reading the seriously deficient arguments here has me wondering. Did the B-2 ( or just the one) partake into the initial rape party? Did he actually drag his friend into the accusation in order to give himself an alibi, which backfired a bit, especially for the friend?

Meanwhile a Thai translator being used by Sky News in court has said she's been "warned off" helping journalists by the Thai "Mafia".

http://news.sky.com/story/1515906/backpacker-murder-dna-setback-for-defence

Exactly, no name, no nothing, no quotes from local press, just crap reporting.

This is a direct named quote however and maybe should be listened to?

Ms Witheridge's family said: "Speculation, rumour and theory have been incredibly hurtful to our family and Hannah's friends, making an already unthinkable time harder to bear.

since you bring it up - it seems that you didn't read what Hannah's sister said recently about the case, go have a look

[JLCrab]

I think, in a way, that would be giving in to trolling, but I think this outbursts of paranoia are very telling.

The full document of the verdict report is available in both the original Thai version and English translation.

Since that document reflects the outcome of the trial, where the arguments of the prosecution and defense were presented in full and contested by each other it represents the most accurate summation of relevant events and evidence about the case.

Then people can compare and contrast that with make believe scenarios and see what makes more sense.

the court document is based on the case presented by Thai police/prosecution and is just as reliable, some here say it is a flawed judgement based on a flawed case - so it is a meaningless contribution to this discussion - you either believe the case presented or you don't - there have been many reasons presented on these Koh Tao discussions the cast extreme doubt

Whether the Samui Court judgment document is flawed or not, that is the judgment that has to be disproven in an Appeal. The discussions on here to that end are meaningless as well.

[Moonsterk]

Is it actually established translators were threatened? Or is it gossip based on hearsay, gone through some revisions as such is known to do?

The problem as I see with all the conspiracy theories, why I'm not convinced in the latest one at least, is a regular reliance on repeating messages so as to turn them into facts- such as above.

I'm almost convinced there is a small group of gossip mongers, a gaggle I've seen written, based on Samui who have never had their narrative of events challenged in a public manner. They control local press, issue FB meme based on errors, attempt various FB bannings, issue personal attacks on forums, and otherwise attempt censor any kind of discourse that counters their scripts.

While I was of the general impression Nom Sod and clan may well have been guilty as hell, and the B-2 not involved, just reading the seriously deficient arguments here has me wondering. Did the B-2 ( or just the one) partake into the initial rape party? Did he actually drag his friend into the accusation in order to give himself an alibi, which backfired a bit, especially for the friend?

Meanwhile a Thai translator being used by Sky News in court has said she's been "warned off" helping journalists by the Thai "Mafia".

http://news.sky.com/story/1515906/backpacker-murder-dna-setback-for-defence

Exactly, no name, no nothing, no quotes from local press, just crap reporting.

This is a direct named quote however and maybe should be listened to?

Ms Witheridge's family said: "Speculation, rumour and theory have been incredibly hurtful to our family and Hannah's friends, making an already unthinkable time harder to bear.

since you bring it up - it seems that you didn't read what Hannah's sister said recently about the case, go have a look

I did read it, whan it first was published. That quote above is from an year old article posted when I asked to see a media link on what I suspected was hearsay re the case. I think the Witheridge family members are entitled to have different views, and the views can and will change with time, it has no relevance whatsoever to the verdict and discussions of evidence on this thread. I do think it has relevance to individuals in that have used this case to give themselves notoriety and may well have damaged the defense prospects in this quest.

Incidentally however, since you bring it up, Laura was subjected to that incredibly misleading video posted by a Anonymous conspiracy theory central FB page. The one alluding to the other recent deaths as murder, too, even though no evidence exists to for those conclusions either, other than misinformation bred on hysteria and publicity seeking.

[smedly]

I think, in a way, that would be giving in to trolling, but I think this outbursts of paranoia are very telling.

The full document of the verdict report is available in both the original Thai version and English translation.

Since that document reflects the outcome of the trial, where the arguments of the prosecution and defense were presented in full and contested by each other it represents the most accurate summation of relevant events and evidence about the case.

Then people can compare and contrast that with make believe scenarios and see what makes more sense.

the court document is based on the case presented by Thai police/prosecution and is just as reliable, some here say it is a flawed judgement based on a flawed case - so it is a meaningless contribution to this discussion - you either believe the case presented or you don't - there have been many reasons presented on these Koh Tao discussions the cast extreme doubt

Whether the Samui Court judgment document is flawed or not, that is the judgment that has to be disproven in an Appeal. The discussions on here to that end are meaningless as well.

most people here believe the whole thing is flawed from start to finish, a Thai court judgement will not change that, for most it will just confirm how flawed and corrupt the whole justice system is period, I can't figure how you don't get that, it is basically what all the forums and discussions have been about this past year and a half

[smedly]

Meanwhile a Thai translator being used by Sky News in court has said she's been "warned off" helping journalists by the Thai "Mafia".

http://news.sky.com/story/1515906/backpacker-murder-dna-setback-for-defence

since you bring it up - it seems that you didn't read what Hannah's sister said recently about the case, go have a look

Laura was subjected to that incredibly misleading video posted by a Anonymous conspiracy theory central FB page.

you couldn't make it up - oh wait you just did lol

She has a mind and a voice, her opinion was mostly based on how she was treated in Thailand - read it again

[smedly]

I wouldn’t say so

ah "lucky" for you

[greenchair]

So now we get a taste of how this thread is going. Engage at your peril. Eventually, every attempt at responding will be met by two or three verbose replies full of infuriating deceit and misdirection, and the thread will soon go haywire. Just look at the Luke Miller thread to see where this one's going.

Nothing's changed. Nowadays, I refrain for engaging with any that post inflammatory comments. If a poster is not going to accept an account by a reputable Sky News reporter, then that's his problem, not mine. Although speculation, I wouldn't be surprised if more people were threatened by the Thai mafia, but kept quiet.

Clearly, AH is an irritant to Thai authorities, but he's high enough profile as to be only subjected to repeat court appearances and ongoing hassle. It is also my understanding that the Appeals court examine only the written appeal, which must be based on the existing 'evidence', and do not call upon any witnesses while considering their verdict. In which case, AH would not be called before the court.

Thats also how its been explained to me. The appeal is a paperwork exercise, there will be no expert witnesses from the defense or prosecution in attendance. The Aus experts will be submitting their reports as affidavit, thats one of the reasons its taken longer to prepare as all the translations need to be perfect.

All this talk by some that the appeal process is going to go down the pan because of having western lawyers/experts at the appeal court is nonsense. There are no plans for this to happen unless the appeal judges specifically request this.

The appeals court can call witnesses if they want to. If there is new evidence that is related to the charge and was an issue discussed in the first court, that can also be added by either the defense or the prosecution. The prosecution also have a right to defend the appeal of the defense. Andy is a human rights defender and worker.

Why on earth would they even contemplate calling andy as an expert. An expert of what? ?

[greenchair]

Is it actually established translators were threatened? Or is it gossip based on hearsay, gone through some revisions as such is known to do?

The problem as I see with all the conspiracy theories, why I'm not convinced in the latest one at least, is a regular reliance on repeating messages so as to turn them into facts- such as above.

I'm almost convinced there is a small group of gossip mongers, a gaggle I've seen written, based on Samui who have never had their narrative of events challenged in a public manner. They control local press, issue FB meme based on errors, attempt various FB bannings, issue personal attacks on forums, and otherwise attempt censor any kind of discourse that counters their scripts.

While I was of the general impression Nom Sod and clan may well have been guilty as hell, and the B-2 not involved, just reading the seriously deficient arguments here has me wondering. Did the B-2 ( or just the one) partake into the initial rape party? Did he actually drag his friend into the accusation in order to give himself an alibi, which backfired a bit, especially for the friend?

Meanwhile a Thai translator being used by Sky News in court has said she's been "warned off" helping journalists by the Thai "Mafia".

http://news.sky.com/story/1515906/backpacker-murder-dna-setback-for-defence

Exactly, no name, no nothing, no quotes from local press, just crap reporting.

This is a direct named quote however and maybe should be listened to?

Ms Witheridge's family said: "Speculation, rumour and theory have been incredibly hurtful to our family and Hannah's friends, making an already unthinkable time harder to bear.

since you bring it up - it seems that you didn't read what Hannah's sister said recently about the case, go have a look

Look where

[canuckamuck]

Crab, you make it like this is his first trip from KT to BKK after a night of partying. Logically he had done it many times before and very probably already had things lined up for this trip. Nothing for him to figure out. This was a milk run for him.

I agree but the efforts to leave the island at around 5 or 6 AM or so to make the flight have been described as 'desperate' efforts -- if this was a milk run he would probably get the speedboat several hours earlier. And from all accounts, the guy, after a hard night of partying, might just routinely say: " Screw it -- so I'm late for class." and catch a later more convenient flight from Samui or Surat Thani.

As long as I'm here, the trial report suggested that the prosecution introduced evidence that no one was seen bothering or following the late Ms. Witheridge:

"The senior investigating officer did insist there was no evidence to suggest she was followed from the bar."

So as this was direct testimony introduced by the prosecution, the defense would have been able to introduce its own witnesses or evidence to refute the statement. They didn't.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/crime/hannah_witheridge_murder_trial_defence_team_hope_to_re_test_crucial_forensic_evidence_1_4164482

He probably would have... He might have...

Hardly an alibi.

Also, what the defence did or didn't do makes no difference to what happened on the night in question.

If you ask me the defense focused on missing or tainted evidence, when they should have been tearing apart the prosecutions case.

[JLCrab]

I wouldn’t say so

ah "lucky" for you

In reply to the overly nested post above, what I get is that 2 young men are now sitting in jail being convicted of 2 murders and other crimes they may or may not have committed based upon the Thai court judgment no matter what most people might believe.

Edited February 25, 2016 by JLCrab