Evidence from UK's National Crime Agency 'critical' in sentencing Koh Tao killers to death

[sweatalot]

Where is the long expected coroner's report?

What is that document that the defence team gave to the court?

the phone's IMEI means nothing as long as there is no evidence who put it there and where he or she got it.

Isn't Thai police well known for planting "evidence"? (the bloody shorts for instance that they "found" in the room of David's friend when they said he was under suspicion?)

Edited February 16, 2016 by sweatalot

[AGareth2]

simple

tortured to confess

and

the phone planted

guilty verdict

[lucky11]

simple

tortured to confess

and

the phone planted

guilty verdict

Well, you had to get one of three correct - the last one.

[DM07]

I cannot somehow see that they are guilty as with their size being both small how they could over power david , 1 person would have had to kill him while the other held the girl as she would have run away BUT they were both found behind a rock on the beach so the news said , i also feel why the DNA was not released to british police so they could match it up with these 2 , the only conclusion i can see why this was not done is because of a cover up , and that the killer is probably known to police and could well be a local of an influencial figure on the island , after this happened several other people have died on the island also people have been threatened not to say who they thought it was, there should be a retrial and the DNA evidence produced but i dont know if they could prove weather the DNA produced was actually from that date when t happened. i would never go to koh tao " death island " as it is called , i have come to thailand for 20 years and have never liked going out in the sticks as the law is always on the locals side and it is usually lawless in the sticks here

David was not found behind a rock, he was found face down in the sea. How can you drown behind a rock on the beach?

Face up, according to the photos!

Try to stick with the facts, you so vehemently ask others to stick to!

How do you get water in your lungs,face up.

"Face up" doesn't mean "head over water"!

And maybe, he was face down at some time.

In the daylight of the morning (when he was found) the photo shows him, face up!

What is wrong with you people?

[lucky11]

What is wrong with us????

He was found in the surf (kind of trickle at the end of a wave) - not sure that it is feasible that a small body of water can turn a body over.

I'm pretty sure that when the police found him that they wouldn't have left him lying face down in the water - they should have photographed him before turning him over and then taking a second photo so that people like you don't get confused so easily!!

[cheapcanuck]

Keystone cops appear to be in uk as well as in los...

[JLCrab]

I suspect that the British police were clueless regarding the way things work in Thailand. They have unwittingly provided a prop for the Thai police to use against the defendants.

I guess maybe that's why none of the victim's of Koh Tao's foul play squad (so far) have been Americans -- they know that the US Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) maintains a full-time professionally staffed office at the US Embassy in Bangkok.

[KunMatt]

What is wrong with us????

He was found in the surf (kind of trickle at the end of a wave) - not sure that it is feasible that a small body of water can turn a body over.

I'm pretty sure that when the police found him that they wouldn't have left him lying face down in the water - they should have photographed him before turning him over and then taking a second photo so that people like you don't get confused so easily!!

Says the man who reckons he was so confused with a Twitter post that he posted the same misinformation for over a week. Kinda hard for you to be so patronising to others after that.

[greenchair]

It is all a moot point. The police failed to link possession of the phone to the accused, yet the court went with it. Just as the court accepted the confessions which were the result of torture and written by a man who could not speak the language of the accused or Thai with any degree of competency. They also accepted DNA evidence which appears to have been done by a 5 year old in the kitchen and recorded in crayon.

If the court didn't care about any of that then...

The defendants admitted to finding the phone. That's when their story changed to returning back to the beach at 5am to collect their clothes.

Not only did wp admit to finding the phone. In the court documents, he originally lied to rin rin, and said he found it at the restaurant.

Then after the news hit, Wei Phyo changed his story and said, he found it on the beach near the crime at 4 in the morning.

That's when rin rin destroyed it. They knew and rin rin knew exactly whose phone it was.

You know the old saying. .....

Once you tell a lie, nobody will believe you even when you do tell the truth.

Maybe andy can read them the story of pinochio when he visits.

[sambum]

serial number of David Millers iPhone which was supposedly found, broken, in a property linked to the two murder suspects.

and before anyone else makes a comment - this changes absolutely nothing, it all comes down to which iphone was found where, an IMEI was submitted for verification, only the Thai police know which phone was found where

The iPhone found at the crime scene was unimportant it seems - and has remained so

nothing new here, this has been discussed over and over on these forums

I would like to know the source of this news article and why it has been released - it adds nothing

who on earth is ................What's on Sukhumvit................seriously

and from the source Buzzfeed news

Lawyers representing the pair said DNA samples from the alleged murder weapon a garden hoe did not match that of the two men, and Thailands leading forensic scientist told the court that the evidence had been so badly mishandled that it was worthless.

The prosecution case had also rested heavily on sperm samples collected from the crime scene, but when the defence asked to have the DNA independently tested Thai police officers failed to hand it over.

hmmmmm nothing new here

But that's of course not correct. They initially didn't hand it over but after the big ruckus of "all used up" they finally agreed to hand it over for independent testing. And then the defense decided not to test.

"And then the defense decided not to test" - the reasons they decided not to test have been given many times on this Forum, and explained in great detail, which you conveniently ignore.This has all been covered before - many times, but maybe in your blindness to the facts, you didn't see the other articles.

And apart from the points mentioned above by Smedley, as a previous poster put it -" this investigation has more holes in it than a piece of gorgonzola cheese", and WOULD have been thrown out of any civilised court, and similarly, ".hmmmmm nothing new here" .

[phuketandsee]

Keystone cops appear to be in uk as well as in los...

Wow, we got to 96 posts this time before a reference to the Keystone Cops. Let's try a break a ton next time.

[KunMatt]

It is all a moot point. The police failed to link possession of the phone to the accused, yet the court went with it. Just as the court accepted the confessions which were the result of torture and written by a man who could not speak the language of the accused or Thai with any degree of competency. They also accepted DNA evidence which appears to have been done by a 5 year old in the kitchen and recorded in crayon.

If the court didn't care about any of that then...

The defendants admitted to finding the phone. That's when their story changed to returning back to the beach at 5am to collect their clothes.

Not only did wp admit to finding the phone. In the court documents, he originally lied to rin rin, and said he found it at the restaurant.

Then after the news hit, Wei Phyo changed his story and said, he found it on the beach near the crime at 4 in the morning.

That's when rin rin destroyed it. They knew and rin rin knew exactly whose phone it was.

You know the old saying. .....

Once you tell a lie, nobody will believe you even when you do tell the truth.

Maybe andy can read them the story of pinochio when he visits.

Do you think it's right that 2 men have been sentenced to death for murder and rape of 2 tourists and the biggest smoking gun you have against them after a long trial is that one of them may have lied about stealing a phone which may have belonged to one of the victims?

[greenchair]

It is all a moot point. The police failed to link possession of the phone to the accused, yet the court went with it. Just as the court accepted the confessions which were the result of torture and written by a man who could not speak the language of the accused or Thai with any degree of competency. They also accepted DNA evidence which appears to have been done by a 5 year old in the kitchen and recorded in crayon.

If the court didn't care about any of that then...

The defendants admitted to finding the phone. That's when their story changed to returning back to the beach at 5am to collect their clothes.

Not only did wp admit to finding the phone. In the court documents, he originally lied to rin rin, and said he found it at the restaurant.

Then after the news hit, Wei Phyo changed his story and said, he found it on the beach near the crime at 4 in the morning.

That's when rin rin destroyed it. They knew and rin rin knew exactly whose phone it was.

You know the old saying. .....

Once you tell a lie, nobody will believe you even when you do tell the truth.

Maybe andy can read them the story of pinochio when he visits.

And not only was there a direct connection to the victims by the phone. The video footage, of which we have only seen a very small part of, was beyond being able to explain.

They were not all tucked up nicely sleeping after 2am, at least 2 of them were out and about most of the night.

[greenchair]

And some might say, they just stole the victims phone and then lied about it, nothing wrong here.

Lol.

Why lie? ?

We can compare to the gardener, that took the hoe from the scene immediately upon seeing it there.

He quite possibly thought he would be blamed, so he removed it from the scene without thinking.

After letting someone know what he had done, he immediately replaced. And informed the police of his mistake rather than trying to conceal the fact.

If the b2 had done a similar thing perhaps we could believe them. But they lied and lied until they could not hold up the facade any longer.

It is possible Wei Phyo went to put the phone back, but by that time people were starting to wake up so he passed it off to his "friend " instead.

Well done rtp.

Well done Britain.

[saminoz]

The question is why a smashed IPhone, why would you take a iPhone and smash it then leave it on your property , hardly makes sense, especially after committing a crime, you'd be more inclined to throw the phone in the ocean......................................... .

......and who would go swimming in the sea, drunk, in the early hours of the morning in the rain only to conveniently lose their clothes, not be able to find them one of them sobered up enough a few hours later to go and look for them. The bonus was that he found some sunglasses and an iphone lying there on the beach. What an amazing night that was!!

Somehow, they caught wind that a gruesome murder had taken place the night before and thought oh!! maybe the phone and sunglasses might belong to one of those murdered and so we might get implicated in the murder and had better smash them up and get somebody to ditch them for us.

Yeh right, pull the other one.

Well done Lucky!! That is probably as close to the truth as what has been reported so far!

Were you there by any chance?

Edited February 16, 2016 by saminoz

[oldsailor35]

British intelligence used to put two migrant workers on Thailand’s death row

National Crime Agency criticised for involvement in case of murdered backpackers

Paul Peachey

LONDON: -- Thailand used evidence supplied by the National Crime Agency (NCA) to put two migrant workers on death row despite senior British officials warning that such a move could damage the reputation of UK policing, it has been revealed.

In December, two Burmese labourers were convicted of the 2014 murder of backpackers David Miller and Hannah Witheridge despite the concerns of human rights groups. During their trial, the defendants claimed that they had been tortured into confessing their role in the killing.

On 15 February, an investigation by BuzzFeed News disclosed that the NCA handed over details about Mr Miller’s iPhone to Thai police. The information – the phone’s serial number – was used in the criminal trial to link Zaw Lin and Wai Phyo to the killing, as it proved that a smashed iPhone found on a property linked to the two Burmese migrants had belonged to the victim.

Full story: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/british-intelligence-used-to-put-two-migrant-workers-on-thailand-s-death-row-a6875841.html

-- THE INDEPENDENT 2016-02-16

Someone must have authorised the release of this information. Is that person still working in the same position ?

[catsanddogs]

It is good news that the British police are in the news for their illegal involvement in this investigation. Maybe there will be more news to come about the British police questioning of the friends that they allegedly undertook and then passed on the to the Thai police (illegally) - I sincerely hope so. As another poster stated on here, the scenario of the Thai police requesting the IMEI number for David's phone and then matching it to the one found allegedly smashed behind the lodgings is perfectly plausible, given all the other worrying aspects of the investigation. The fact that the Miller family turned up at court with the number to verify it was David's phone means nothing as it had already been 'confirmed' that it matched David's phone. It was simply a publicity stunt for the prosecution. As others have pointed out, why would you toss a phone behind your shack if you had stole it from someone you had murdered? You'd have been pretty thick to think it wouldn't be found. And why would someone steal a phone from someone they had murdered? Why not steal Hannah's purse while they were at it, which they clearly didn't. I would like to see photographic evidence of the phone that was found behind the lodgings to compare with the iphone that police found on the beach along with the phone that belonged to David. His friends would know what his phone looked like. His friends would have some idea of the photos that David took with his phone. David's father knows what time his son phoned him in the hours before his death. A smashed phone does not destroy a sim card or a memory card. Were either of these still inside the phone that was 'found' behind the lodgings? That is what I would be asking if I were on the defence or a parent. Where's the evidence this was David's phone and who did the iphone belong to that was found on the beach and where is it now. Maybe the Miller family do in fact know what was on the memory and sim card of the phone police say was David's and that's what has convinced them that the B2 are guilty. But the Miller family will not know from which phone these cards were taken.

[bark]

......the smashed iPhone found on a property linked to the two Burmese migrants had belonged to the victim.......

maybe someone tossed the iPhone over the fence.........

Yes, and maybe they tossed it after they arrested the two Burmese ?

[bark]

Burmese cannot own property in Thailand !

Linked could mean they worked near or on the property. Same as 100 other Burmese and Thai's

[oldsailor35]

""Fearing for other British tourists on Koh Tao with the murderers still at large, the NCA acted on this exception, according to Buzzfeed, with the caveat that it be used for intelligence only and not in court.""

But the murderers are STILL at large...

... but they (mostly?) have been behaving themselves.

"but they (mostly?) have been behaving themselves."

REALLY ?

If im not wrong, since the murder on David and Hannah some more farangs were killed on KT....

Might be wrong, but think i recall 2 English and the young French man who committed suicide by hanging himself with his hands tied behind his back.

[JLCrab]

""Fearing for other British tourists on Koh Tao with the murderers still at large, the NCA acted on this exception, according to Buzzfeed, with the caveat that it be used for intelligence only and not in court.""

But the murderers are STILL at large...

... but they (mostly?) have been behaving themselves.

"but they (mostly?) have been behaving themselves."

REALLY ?

If im not wrong, since the murder on David and Hannah some more farangs were killed on KT....

Might be wrong, but think i recall 2 English and the young French man who committed suicide by hanging himself with his hands tied behind his back.

The Frenchman left a suicide note -- in French addressed to 'Iris'.

One other was likely but not certainly an overdose on drugs and alcohol and, of the one in the swimming pool, not one of the ThaiVisa scenario-squad has offered the least explanation as to why that should be considered other than a drunken prank gone bad.

[canuckamuck]

It is all a moot point. The police failed to link possession of the phone to the accused, yet the court went with it. Just as the court accepted the confessions which were the result of torture and written by a man who could not speak the language of the accused or Thai with any degree of competency. They also accepted DNA evidence which appears to have been done by a 5 year old in the kitchen and recorded in crayon.

If the court didn't care about any of that then...

The defendants admitted to finding the phone. That's when their story changed to returning back to the beach at 5am to collect their clothes.

Ah but what about the iphone found at the scene that was also identical to David's It seems the cops had two to choose from and they got a match on one. Why did we never learn of the identity of iphone #1.

[boomerangutang]

If Mon and his cop friend were at the crime scene about 50 minutes before the next cop arrived (the one who made the claim in his report that David was found in the surf) - Did Mon and/or his friend try to revive David during that nearly an hour? The crime likely wrapped up at 5 am. Mon and his cop friend were among the first at the scene, which could have been within an hour after the crime. Added Q: would there be a reason for Mon and his friend to not want David revived? I have an answer for that (based on circumstantial evidence), but it would anger certain Thai VIP's to hear it. Those who know my posts will know my answer to whether 'Mon had reasons to not want David revived.'

[silverado]

reply to post #111

"...not one of the ThaiVisa scenario-squad has offered the least explanation as to why that should be considered other than a drunken prank gone bad...."

it seems that Luke's friends consider and offer other explantion than a drunken prank gone bad

watch the FB page "Justice For Luke" : https://www.facebook.com/groups/1695729067325810/?fref=ts

[berybert]

""Fearing for other British tourists on Koh Tao with the murderers still at large, the NCA acted on this exception, according to Buzzfeed, with the caveat that it be used for intelligence only and not in court.""

But the murderers are STILL at large...

... but they (mostly?) have been behaving themselves.

Yeah only 5 or 6 dodgy deaths since the Burmese were jailed.

Once they stop behaving themselves who knows how many it will be.

[silverado]

""Fearing for other British tourists on Koh Tao with the murderers still at large, the NCA acted on this exception, according to Buzzfeed, with the caveat that it be used for intelligence only and not in court.""

But the murderers are STILL at large...

... but they (mostly?) have been behaving themselves.

Yeah only 5 or 6 dodgy deaths since the Burmese were jailed.

Once they stop behaving themselves who knows how many it will be.

just an average of 1 death every quarter : usually a very good average for a serial killer on his early career before speed up.

welcome to koh tao , somebody is waiting for you...

Edited February 16, 2016 by silverado

[bannork]

""Fearing for other British tourists on Koh Tao with the murderers still at large, the NCA acted on this exception, according to Buzzfeed, with the caveat that it be used for intelligence only and not in court.""

But the murderers are STILL at large...

... but they (mostly?) have been behaving themselves.

Yeah only 5 or 6 dodgy deaths since the Burmese were jailed.

Once they stop behaving themselves who knows how many it will be.

For sure some of those deaths wouldn't have happened if the victims had behaved themselves and not got so wasted. A waste of young lives through self indulgence in some cases, nothing new there.

[djlest]

What about the video footage? and the topless guy fleeing from the scene?

What about all the video cameras that had their footage removed?

[z42]

It is all a moot point. The police failed to link possession of the phone to the accused, yet the court went with it. Just as the court accepted the confessions which were the result of torture and written by a man who could not speak the language of the accused or Thai with any degree of competency. They also accepted DNA evidence which appears to have been done by a 5 year old in the kitchen and recorded in crayon.

If the court didn't care about any of that then...

The defendants admitted to finding the phone. That's when their story changed to returning back to the beach at 5am to collect their clothes.

Not only did wp admit to finding the phone. In the court documents, he originally lied to rin rin, and said he found it at the restaurant.

Then after the news hit, Wei Phyo changed his story and said, he found it on the beach near the crime at 4 in the morning.

That's when rin rin destroyed it. They knew and rin rin knew exactly whose phone it was.

You know the old saying. .....

Once you tell a lie, nobody will believe you even when you do tell the truth.

Maybe andy can read them the story of pinochio when he visits.

And not only was there a direct connection to the victims by the phone. The video footage, of which we have only seen a very small part of, was beyond being able to explain.

They were not all tucked up nicely sleeping after 2am, at least 2 of them were out and about most of the night.

What video footage? Unless you've seen something the rest of the world didn't see yet I call BS on it. Link please

[mrrizzla]

It is all a moot point. The police failed to link possession of the phone to the accused, yet the court went with it. Just as the court accepted the confessions which were the result of torture and written by a man who could not speak the language of the accused or Thai with any degree of competency. They also accepted DNA evidence which appears to have been done by a 5 year old in the kitchen and recorded in crayon.

If the court didn't care about any of that then...

I think he means the 'running' man. You know the one that has gait.