Gay Animal Exhibit - Do Thais Consider Us Unnatural?

[Ijustwannateach]

It's not in Thailand, but the implications of this exhibition are important politically for all gay people and should be broadcast as widely as possible, as part of the argument against the "homosexuality is not natural" brigade:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061012/od_uk_...t_homosexuality

OSLO (Reuters) - The birds and the bees may be gay, according to the world's first museum exhibition about homosexuality among animals.

With documentation of gay or lesbian behaviour among giraffes, penguins, parrots, beetles, whales and dozens of other creatures, the Oslo Natural History Museum concludes human homosexuality cannot be viewed as "unnatural".

"We may have opinions on a lot of things, but one thing is clear -- homosexuality is found throughout the animal kingdom, it is not against nature," an exhibit statement said.

Geir Soeli, the project leader of the exhibition entitled "Against Nature", told Reuters: "Homosexuality has been observed for more than 1,500 animal species, and is well documented for 500 of them."

I've quoted the most pertinent points. The rest of the article documents the hatred and homophobia of the christian community, as well as being rather unimaginative about natural reinforcers for homosexuality (the fact that female bee drones cannot reproduce, for instance, but still help their queen because they share similar genetic material- would provide an analogy for how gays can be genetically "fit" by helping their brothers and sisters raise children who share similar genes).

"Steven"

[PeaceBlondie]

Here in Thailand, I haven't heard Thais discussing whether gay is natural or unnatural. My Thai boyfriend seems to think we're normal. It's the farang I expect to hear objections from.

When I taught Thai teenagers, the gay boys and girls were considered different, but I doubt anybody thought it was a crime against nature, or a sin against the natural creation.

[Barney_the_Dinosaur]

beetles

"Steven"

I always thought as much. My suspicions about beetles have now been validated.

[D+D]

It's not in Thailand

yep

[D+D]

Here in Thailand, I haven't heard Thais discussing whether gay is natural or unnatural.

That's because they are not bothered by such things, only paranoid farangs.

Edited October 23, 2006 by D+D

[Ijustwannateach]

This comes up every time a general gay subject is broached- complaints from those who really have nothing to contribute.

As far as I know, it is still the policy here to allow general discussion of important gay topics- philosophy, scientific origins, etc.- in the gay subforum, as this is of interest to all gays of any country anywhere in the world.

It seems unlikely that posters who would attempt to restrict this sort of discussion are, in fact, gay in any manner whatsoever.

"Steven"

[Ijustwannateach]

Touching on the topic of what Thais discuss about the origins of sexual orientation, I've heard two schools of thought:

1. Bad karma results in a gay child. I discourage this one because I don't feel it is a negative result to be gay.

2. The old chestnut about absent father figures- which may in fact be true to some extent.

However, the animals they mention wouldn't seem to have either of these as a primary effect on sexuality, which is more instinctive, I think? This is a strong argument for genetic influences on sexuality.

"Steven"

[PeaceBlondie]

Gosh, this is still being debated over on the Mennonite discussion forum, and it's not exactly a traditional Anabaptist subject.

I'm not paranoid if people are trying to persecute me even in Thailand, because I'm gay. Are there farang churches in Thailand that would accept a non-flamboyant man who might quietly refer to his boyfriend, when it's appropriate, such as when asked "Do you live alone?"

I think the subject of this topic is, or can be, "Animal exhibit - Do Thais consider gays to be normal or natural?"

When I taught teenagers in Thailand, I never admitted I was gay, or had a boyfriend, neither to other teenagers nor to students.

[D+D]

It seems unlikely that posters who would attempt to restrict this sort of discussion are, in fact, gay in any manner whatsoever.

"Steven"

or maybe some of us who are gay aren't so insecure about it so we don't have to shout to all and sundry to justify and feel good about ourselves.

they say large empty vessels make the most noise

[Ijustwannateach]

I think we should try to stay on topic here, please.

I know that zoologists and animal husbandry experts have known for many years that animals exhibited gay behavior. Scientists have tended to sweep the evidence under the carpet for religious/political reasons, much as the old experts in classical culture used to censor out the naughty bits in old books and hide the erotic pottery and other artifacts in locked cabinets. It's good to see the scientists "coming out" as well as the information, finally.

I would expect that knowledge of animal homosexuality would be widespread in common Thai lore, as they must have observed it in their animals before. Anybody know any Thai farmers who have mentioned it to them before?

[jdinasia]

The topic ...... Oslo? don't care .... Do Thais consider us unnatural? No .. not even my Muslim neighbors!

[dukkha]

Maybe some customers from Thai Farmers Bank may have some information...

[Ijustwannateach]

^

I reconsidered what I said above about gays & science. After all, science hasn't been on our "side" through all of history. There was hardly any time between the formation of scientific opinion on sexuality and the decision to consider homosexuality a pathology, primarily based on religious and "natural" arguments in the first place. Science "readmitting" us as normal is a positive step, but one coming about 150 years later (I believe the idea of "homosexuality" as a concept originated around the 1860's or so scientifically). Perhaps we have less reason to trust science now as a result- but I think we have few enough allies to be unenthusiastic about them when they appear.

Of course, I have a heavy vested personal and professional interest in what science says, so for me this seems like a victory.

"Steven"

[farangsay]

Don't normally intrude in these sorts of discussions

but :

what's the obsession with being considered "natural" ?

IMHO the whole human race left "natural" behind a

long while ago.

Much heterosexual behaviour is still considerd by the

sad people to be "unnatural" but who cares ?

Oral sex is "unnatural". Nobody's filmed sparrows

giving BJ's.

(And before you say it , a dog licking his <deleted>

in the street is personal hygeine , not sexuality OK?)

Lighten up.

Don't be paranoid.

Settle for "acceptance"

[Ijustwannateach]

Actually several species of animals give homosexual blowjobs, I believe- not least bonobo chimpanzees, our closest genetic relatives.

[PeaceBlondie]

I heard that dogs lick themselves.....because.....they can.

[boybrat]

some humans can do too. not me though ive tried. was awarded with a severe sprain in my neck and a sore back. never again. had to tell all my friends that it was a sports injury after that. some humans can also literally ###### themselves. how fun is that???!!!

anyway. there are gay dogs, gay cats, gay turkeys, gay manatees, gay katydids, gay jellyfish, gay clothes, gay movies, gay shoes, gar bars, gay restaurants, gay hotels, gay kumquats, etc. and the list goes on.so ######ing what.

thais like any other race of humans out there have their own prejudices. while many thais approve of homosexual behaviour, many dont. while many people think it's natural, many others dont.

ive met friends who think that thai parents are more accomodating to gay relationships as their litttle toy boys brought them home to some obscure isaan village to meet the folks. and they will wax lyrical about how hardworking the father is, how he drank whiskey soda with toyboy's brothers, and how the parents "accepted" their relationship cos they slept together on the floor while the mosquito coil burnt in a corner and he "held the boy close while the crickets chirped in the distance. happy and contented and had to blink away tears of joy cos (he's) found true bliss". *gag*

well think again. old farang man will usually come bearing gifts of food and/or cash. ive been told that such gifts are expected.

hello.... money can make people do strange things. yes, even make a cute straight thai boy do it with hans the 77 year old schoolteacher from berlin (the one with with the bad tuopee, rheumy eyes and no neck. hans that is, not thai boy)

ive known of many thai parents (not thai chinese, mind you) who do not approve of homosexuality at all. so there u have it!

Edited October 25, 2006 by boybrat

[D+D]

Lighten up.

Don't be paranoid.

Unfortunately too many are.

nice post