China 'has deployed missiles in South China Sea' - reports

[webfact]

China 'has deployed missiles in South China Sea' - reports

LONDON: -- China appears to have deployed surface-to-air missiles on a disputed island in the South China Sea, say reports.

Civilian satellite images, taken on 14 February and published by Fox News, appear to show two batteries of eight missile launchers and a radar system on Woody Island in the Paracels.

Taiwan, which along with Vietnam claims the island, confirmed the deployment.

Full story: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-35592988


-- BBC 2016-02-17

[craigt3365]

Great way to calm things down! Wow...

[webfact]

China deploys missiles in disputed South China Sea: Taiwan
By RALPH JENNINGS and CHRISTOHPER BODEEN

TAIPEI, Taiwan (AP) — Taiwan said Wednesday that China had positioned anti-aircraft missiles on a disputed South China Sea island, as Australia's foreign minister began talks in Beijing expected to deal with tensions over China's moves to assert its maritime claims.

Taiwan's Ministry of National Defense said in a statement it had "grasped that Communist China had deployed" an unspecified number of missiles on Woody Island in the Paracel group. The Philippines said the development increased regional tensions.

The move would follow China's building of new islands in the disputed sea by piling sand atop reefs and then adding airstrips and military installations. They are seen as part of Beijing's efforts to claim virtually the entire South China Sea and its resources, which has prompted some of its wary neighbors to draw closer to the U.S.

The most dramatic work has taken place in the Spratly Island group, where the militaries of four nations have a presence, although similar work has also gone on at Woody and other Chinese holdings in the Paracels.

"The military will pay close attention to subsequent developments," the Taiwanese ministry statement said. Relevant parties should "work together to maintain peace and stability in the South China Sea region to refrain from any unilateral measure that would increase tensions," the statement added.

U.S. network Fox News also said China had moved surface-to-air missiles to the Paracels, identifying them as two batteries of the HQ-9 system, along with radar targeting arrays. The missiles have a range of about 200 kilometers (125 miles), making them a threat to all forms of civilian and military aircraft.

Called Yongxingdao by China, Woody island is also claimed by Taiwan and Vietnam. Along with an artificial harbor, it boasts an airport, roads, army posts and other buildings and recent satellite imagery appears to show it is adding a helicopter base likely dedicated to anti-submarine warfare missions.

Taiwan and China claim almost the whole 3.5 million-square-kilometer (1.35 million-square-mile) South China Sea, including the Paracel chain. Vietnam and the Philippines claim much of the ocean, as well. Brunei and Malaysia have smaller claims.

Home to some of the world's busiest sea lanes, the ocean is also rich in fisheries and may hold oil and natural gas reserves under the seabed.

China's move is likely to rattle Vietnam the most because of its proximity to the Paracels and because of a history of maritime tensions with China that spiked in 2014 with a standoff after China moved a massive oil rig into disputed waters.

Neither Bishop nor Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi mentioned the South China Sea directly during opening statements ahead of their talks.

In comments Monday to Japanese broadcaster NHK, Bishop said Australia — like the U.S. — does not take sides on the issue of sovereignty, but urges all parties to "exercise restraint, de-escalate tensions and not act in a way that would inflame the situation."

"Australia has called on all parties to cease reclamation, construction work and any militarization of the islands," Bishop said.

China regards Australia and the U.S. as unwelcome outside interlopers in regional waters. Wang and Bishop engaged in a testy exchange in December 2013 after Australia criticized China's unilateral declaration of an air defense zone in the East China Sea.

Ahead of Bishop's visit, President Barack Obama and the leaders of the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations called Tuesday for the peaceful resolution of the region's maritime disputes.

Obama told a news conference that disputes must be resolved by legal means, including a case brought by the Philippines challenging China's sweeping claims over most of the South China Sea.

China has refused to take part in the proceedings, but Obama said parties to the U.N. law of the seas are obligated to respect the ruling, expected later this year.

Obama also accepted an offer to make a May visit to Vietnam, further strengthening a reconciliation between former foes driven largely by concerns over China.

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei reiterated Tuesday that China considered the legal proceedings initiated by the Philippines to be illegitimate and said they would "never be accepted by China."

China was deploying "necessary national defense facilities" on its territory, Hong said. He said Australia should be remain unbiased and refrain from doing anything to undermine regional stability.

Philippine Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin said the deployment of missiles on Woody Island "increases tensions in the South China Sea."

In Vietnam, about 100 people gathered to commemorate the start of a brief but bloody 1979 invasion by Chinese forces chanted "down with the aggressors," and "Hoang Sa, Truong Sa," the Vietnamese terms for the Paracel and Spratly islands.

Analysts say China's military moves in the South China Sea are primarily aimed at intimidating the Philippines and Vietnam, while solidifying its hold on the islands and boosting its ability to project force.

That is meanwhile strengthening those in the U.S., especially in the Pentagon, who "will want to more vigorously challenge China," said Thomas Berger, an expert on the region at Boston University.

The new bases are also highly vulnerable to U.S. attack in a conflict and the U.S. will continue to defy Beijing by sailing its Navy ships inside China's claimed territorial waters, said Edward N. Luttwak, a China expert and military strategist based in the U.S. state of Maryland.

"China, under President Xi Jinping, continues to work hard to endow the U.S. with allies all around its periphery," Luttwak said.
__

Bodeen reported from Beijing. Jim Gomez in Manila, Philippines, and Tran Van Minh in Hanoi, Vietnam, also contributed to this report.

-- (c) Associated Press 2016-02-17

[Katipo]

China's extremely aggressive (and outlandish) claim to these islands could lead to WW3 if we are not careful.

[Steely Dan]

Not surprising though as the U.S reacted to Russia installing S-400 surface to air missiles in Syria by meekly stopping flights in the areas they covered.

Edited February 17, 2016 by Steely Dan

[craigt3365]

Not surprising though as the U.S reacted to Russia installing S-400 surface to air missiles in Syria by meekly stopping flights in the areas they covered.

Syria is not the South China Sea. I don't think the US really wants to be involved in Syria. Nothing to gain other than getting rid of the millions of refugees which just bring down the whole global economy.

China putting missiles on land that's hotly contested...and which they don't legally own....and is in international waters/shipping lanes...huge difference.

[tezzainoz]

China's extremely aggressive (and outlandish) claim to these islands could lead to WW3 if we are not careful.

Time to wake up WWIII is already way started

all those who are not afraid to talk against the UN will tell you it is a religious war

So the UN can kill of 50% off the worlds population and then control the world with an un elected government

Old Fashion military wars are out dated

[Steely Dan]

Not surprising though as the U.S reacted to Russia installing S-400 surface to air missiles in Syria by meekly stopping flights in the areas they covered.

Syria is not the South China Sea. I don't think the US really wants to be involved in Syria. Nothing to gain other than getting rid of the millions of refugees which just bring down the whole global economy.

China putting missiles on land that's hotly contested...and which they don't legally own....and is in international waters/shipping lanes...huge difference.

I agree, my point being that China might have got the notion they could get away with such behavior judging from what they see of current US foreign policy.

[Grouse]

Obliterate the island

No collateral damage

Even the Russians could do it

[arjunadawn]

Obama's Strategic Patience on display. In every corner of the world adversaries now "consolidate" their forces (Iran, N Korea, China, Russia, and non state actors). From a purely Chinese perspective this island would be ideal for military projection/upgrades. I would offer this is urgently needed, from their perspective. Taken as an isolated issue it could be rationalized that the strategic location of this island makes it long overdue for Chinese "attention." However, when considered in the context of Chinese military buildup regionally, its projection and provocation in the region, it paints an entirely different story. Under the US's "pivot East" China has not only consolidated its known borders but created entirely new borders... by building them in others' backyards! In fact, the only demonstrable product of the US pivoting east has been the destructive TPP, the unprecedented Chinese hegemony by inventing land, and North Korea's increased bellicosity.

There have been few examples of invasion/projection preparation in history than China's island strategy. Troy was complicit in their destruction by wheeling the wooden horsey into the city. Because of its size it would have posed no threat outside Troy's walls. China's horse is so damn large and hollow that just getting the horse on another nations' shores is enough proximity to project Chinese military power/hegemony; it doesn't need to get the horse inside Manila, Tokyo, Seoul, Phnom Penh, Hanoi, Bangkok, or use the horse to block the Straits. This is in essence what has happened- China built a great big wooden horse in the middle of the ocean and anyone who wants to sail nearby must first ride their horse. Why exhaust the analogy? Because it is a facade, a feign, pretense, a demonstrable military act who's only fig leaf has been the US averting everyone's eyes. The US "strategic patience" policy provided the diplomatic blind-spot so no one could protest and act upon the great big horse China has been building, loosely called an island strategy. Upgrading military components on this particular island are clearly a backstop to ensure a logistics train regionally.

Is anyone really surprised China would reinforce known islands while it is creating new ones?

[SOTIRIOS]

.....tit for tat....

...and the dance begins....

[Somtamnication]

What was everybody thinking? They are not building a dim sum disney-esque park!!!

[boomerangutang]

Obliterate the island

No collateral damage

Even the Russians could do it

I don't recommend obliterating the island. I recommend bombing the installations forthwith. Not quite as important as the Cuban Missile crisis, but several similarities. I never used to be a saber-rattler, but now over 60, I am in re; to Chinese aggression. I'm also in favor of Tibet becoming independent as it was prior to the 1950's military take-over by China.

[sgtsabai]

The US has wasted it economic power, diplomatic power, good will, military and 100,000's of thousands of lives in a folly in the Mid-East while the Mandarins in China have planned and planned. And yes, the US is their enemy. The piss ant "pivot" is nothing, TPP is a disaster for every country that signs it and will in the long run cause great harm to the US for misleading other countries into a corporate coup. The US is years late and trillions of dollars short for the "pivot" and China damn well knows it. If Thailand doesn't wake up it will find itself a vassal state of China like Lao. If ASEAN doesn't wake up and kick the US awake the entire region will be a vassal state of China. Hard sides will have to be taken, whether publically or quietly. Mark my words, there will be shooting soon in the China Seas. China will continue to push until it is pushed back. The US cannot afford to give them anymore time. Get the hell out of the Mid-East, support the Kurds 100%, but get out. Concentrate where the problem is and has been.

[sgtsabai]

By bombing the installations, the "islands" probably would be obliterated. They arem't real islands, just low water atolls/reefs that China made into artificial islands, while destroying the ecology around them. With you on Tibet. I doubt China will be provoked enough to start the shooting directly with the US, although I think the US should do their best to do so. They will pick on Philippines, maybe Vietnam, although they know VN will damn well fight back, they always do. Japan, damn right will fight back and any of those countries brings the US into the fight. The problem then becomes hesitation when hesitation is fatal. That will be time for balls to the wall, hi diddle, diddle right up the middle. Boldnest, stratagy, and tactics which have been sadly lacking for many, many, many years, well before the manchurian Republican lite president Obama. The US has the Naval and Air power to blow China out of the area, forget land war, can't be won. USMC been training Japanese Marines in island taking. Kinda' strange but I guess the USMC can dust off the campaign books from WWII.

[Dumbastheycome]

Obama's Strategic Patience on display. In every corner of the world adversaries now "consolidate" their forces (Iran, N Korea, China, Russia, and non state actors). From a purely Chinese perspective this island would be ideal for military projection/upgrades. I would offer this is urgently needed, from their perspective. Taken as an isolated issue it could be rationalized that the strategic location of this island makes it long overdue for Chinese "attention." However, when considered in the context of Chinese military buildup regionally, its projection and provocation in the region, it paints an entirely different story. Under the US's "pivot East" China has not only consolidated its known borders but created entirely new borders... by building them in others' backyards! In fact, the only demonstrable product of the US pivoting east has been the destructive TPP, the unprecedented Chinese hegemony by inventing land, and North Korea's increased bellicosity.

There have been few examples of invasion/projection preparation in history than China's island strategy. Troy was complicit in their destruction by wheeling the wooden horsey into the city. Because of its size it would have posed no threat outside Troy's walls. China's horse is so damn large and hollow that just getting the horse on another nations' shores is enough proximity to project Chinese military power/hegemony; it doesn't need to get the horse inside Manila, Tokyo, Seoul, Phnom Penh, Hanoi, Bangkok, or use the horse to block the Straits. This is in essence what has happened- China built a great big wooden horse in the middle of the ocean and anyone who wants to sail nearby must first ride their horse. Why exhaust the analogy? Because it is a facade, a feign, pretense, a demonstrable military act who's only fig leaf has been the US averting everyone's eyes. The US "strategic patience" policy provided the diplomatic blind-spot so no one could protest and act upon the great big horse China has been building, loosely called an island strategy. Upgrading military components on this particular island are clearly a backstop to ensure a logistics train regionally.

Is anyone really surprised China would reinforce known islands while it is creating new ones?

Well put ! The arrogance of presumed supremacy is always open to challenge. Only time will tell if the challenge is mediatory or preparatory.

As an aside....South China Sea ? That assignation may provide an argument harder to refute than South East Asia Sea !.

[Publicus]

SecDef Ashton Carter put the USN and USAF in the South China Sea and he has created interoperability between the 7th Fleet in the Western Pacific and the 3rd Fleet which operates in the eastern Pacific. The two fleets which have traditionally been delinated by the International Date Line are now operating together in the Indo-Pacific Strategic Region.

SecDef Ashton Carter is well aware the CCP Dictators in Beijing are making enemies throughout the region, driving almost all the countries to the United States for leadership and protection, so thank you to the CCP for its remarkable ability to shoot itself in the foot. SecDef Carter has in the freedom of navigation exercises further exposed the CCP's 'deterrence credibilty' as virtually nonexistent. The missiles on the existing island in the Paracels amount to nothing in the short term.

India revealed several days ago it is in "serious discussions" with Carter about joint naval patrols in the SCS. Japan will conduct aerial recon as Australia is already doing and President Obama will visit Vietnam in a couple of months as a follow up to recent visits there by the past and present chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

The CCP missiles are on an existing Vietnamese island in the Paracels which puts Beijing in another direct confrontation with Vietnam. The CCP aggression against the Philippines is in the Spratlys to the south and involve most visibly its new artificial islands, hence the Phils yielding to Hanoi on this one.

Vietnam is the most militarily capable Asean nation to stand up the the CCP Dictators of Beijing who already have a PLA base on the same Vietnamese island as are the new missiles.

Vietnam has six new Kilo-class Russian submarines that have the Klub-S cruise missile capable of striking well inland of the mainland CCP China. The only Asean country to have this capability, Hanoi's Kilo subs are armed with anti-ship and land attack cruise missiles and are supported by four new guided missile corvettes, five new light frigates and six fast attack craft armed with anti-ship missiles. Five hundred at a time Vietnamese navy submariners are training in India which last year signed a "strategic agreement" with Hanoi. This year Hanoi will receive the fifth of five Project 636 Varshavyanka-class submarines from Russia to complement the three SS-209 subs from South Korea. Hanoi is preparing to engage the CCP and its PLA Navy in a low-intensity conflict. Hanoi believes firmly it must force the CCP Dictators to keep their distance from Vietnamese shores, territorial waters and island groups. This is the coming conflict to watch as it continues to develop.

The focus on submarines is the response of Asean countries individually against the size and might of the CCP naval and military forces. Unlike in the past, the modern submarine is the weapon of the weak against the strong. Moreover, the PLA Navy is critically weak in ASW (Anti-Submarine Warfare, as is Russia.)

Singapore is buying four German submarines of the same class as Israel has purchased from Berlin. Singapore is also buying four Vastegotland-class subs from Sweden that have air independent propulsion (AIP), the only such boat among Asean navies (and the PLA Navy). It already has cruisers and destroyers capable of submarine escort both defensively and offensively in addition to a swarm of US F-16 fighters (the same as Turkey has).

Malaysia is purchasing several Scorpene subs from France and Italy and it has established a sub base on islands at the southern end of the strategic Strait of Malacca that borders it. Indonesia is buying three new SS-209 subs from South Korea and has placed 40 navy ships at the Natuna Islands in the SCS affected by CCP territorial claims. Philippines has purchased 12 of the South Korean FA-50 fighter jets and is focusing on ASW against PLA Navy subs.

Australia is buying six new submarines, either the Soryu-class Japanese top on the line long range sub or the French Scorpene with Tokyo favored to get the deal any time now.

There's a storm coming.

[VIPinasia]

if we don't stop China they will build another Island. near the USA this time and claim ownership on the USA

China want get supremacy on the world.

Edited February 17, 2016 by VIPinasia

[sgtsabai]

While all the acquisition is good, acquisition/training time is vital. Although I do believe accomplish-able as the pressure is on. We do know one thing, the hard way, the Vietnamese will fight back and they will fight to win. No love lost between them and China. Lao and Cambodia will sit everything out, being vassal states of China. Burma turned west as protection against the Chinese. Thailand, well which way is the wind blowing today? The concerned countries are far behind China in naval/air capabilities, but are working hard to catch up. Japan stacks up pretty equal, Singapore not bad and well when the US gets in as it will have to, treaties-we do honor some, China's Navy and Air Force will be at the bottom of the Seas, along with some American and other countries ships, planes and people. Surely not even the Republicans or Hillary would be stupid enough to attempt a land war. Oh damn why did I even have to think of that. Nightmares tonight...lol.

[NeverSure]

If this was during the Cold War and the US operated like Russia did then, it would simply fly some stealth bombers over the area and obliterate that which is objectionable.

Then like Russia it would either deny it, or simply stay silent and lick its chops while other countries went into tongue wagging. The media of the world would go nuts. DC would stay silent.

China is rushing to get this done while the US has a wimp for a POTUS. They know he'll do nothing about it.

It would be interesting to know what would happen to China both economically and militarily if the US had a POTUS with some guts. Maybe it would get some sanctions on it that would force US corporations to bring jobs home and China's economy would further tank and it couldn't afford all of this nonsense.

Don't give me any mistaken comments like "But the US owes China money" which is bullshit and irrelevant. China has to hold US dollars so that it can engage in international trade and it does so in the form of US treasuries. It would be out of biz if it sold any more than it has, recently. It's been selling because it's desperate for money. It wouldn't take much more than a feather to knock China over economically right now.

Future President Trump HATES China. He'll be the first POTUS in 50 years with any brains on the subject. Stand by for the end of the new China era, all done economically.

Cheers.

[Publicus]

 

While all the acquisition is good, acquisition/training time is vital. Although I do believe accomplish-able as the pressure is on. We do know one thing, the hard way, the Vietnamese will fight back and they will fight to win. No love lost between them and China. Lao and Cambodia will sit everything out, being vassal states of China. Burma turned west as protection against the Chinese. Thailand, well which way is the wind blowing today? The concerned countries are far behind China in naval/air capabilities, but are working hard to catch up. Japan stacks up pretty equal, Singapore not bad and well when the US gets in as it will have to, treaties-we do honor some, China's Navy and Air Force will be at the bottom of the Seas, along with some American and other countries ships, planes and people. Surely not even the Republicans or Hillary would be stupid enough to attempt a land war. Oh damn why did I even have to think of that. Nightmares tonight...lol.

Vietnam is going to give the CCP Dictators a good boot in the back side and Hanoi will be more than pleased to do it. CCP again have their giant oil rig in Vietnam territorial waters and this is after wild anti-China riots in Vietnam when CCP did the same thing early last year.

Fireworks are indeed coming but not necessarily between the US and the CCP Dictators and their air or naval forces. Baring the unforeseen or the unintended, it's going to be between regional states, between two very longtime bitter enemies, Vietnam and China.

Asean is nervous as hell about it but they too can see it coming. So Asean countries have a certain sense of relief that the Boyz in Beijing will get set back a good one in all of this. Beijing getting socked by Vietnam will also diminish the power of Beijing's agents in Asean, namely Cambodia and Laos which you too mention by name. Myanmar will find it easier to also move away from Beijing after the showdown does occur. US simply needs to be present in the mix as it is and will continue to be to prevent it possibly getting out of hand.

CCP are indeed clumsy and overbearing klutzes with a dubious and untested military. Chinese are not the natural fighters the Vietnamese are. Chinese historical military ineptness is a major reason CCP knows it has to try to operate by so-called stealth, aka, salami slicing. Confront the CCP and they know they'll have to back down cause they don't have the killer instinct. Chinese are neither fighters nor are they lovers.

[Publicus]

 

if we don't stop China they will build another Island. near the USA this time and claim ownership on the USA

China want get supremacy on the world.

Indeed, everyone knows the end point down the road of this SCS belligerence against Asean and the East Sea stuff against Japan is the CCP sitting in Washington in control of the United States. No question about it. This is CCP stuff same as it was CCCP stuff in Moscow during the Cold War and continues to be the mindset in Moscow under the Chekist Putin and his gang leftover from the former Soviet Union.

CCP Dictators in Beijing know that before they could become a global power over the United States they must first become a regional power, in East Asia and through to South Asian to include India. Which is why the new BJP government of India is openly partnered with Washington, Asean against the CCP, to include with Australia and Japan.

Beijing cannot become a regional power however given that it is constrained by the presence of Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Philippines, Indonesia, Vietnam, Malaysia, Singapore, India and of course Australia and New Zealand. Which is why CCP has been doing all it can try to do to separate the US from its allies in the region, its partners here and its friends in these parts. Not only has Beijing been unsuccessful in this mad pursuit, it has been a miserable failure. All CCP have done is to put US and its allies etc closer than ever before.

Dumb-arse klutzes they are in Beijing.

[Publicus]

 

If this was during the Cold War and the US operated like Russia did then, it would simply fly some stealth bombers over the area and obliterate that which is objectionable.

Then like Russia it would either deny it, or simply stay silent and lick its chops while other countries went into tongue wagging. The media of the world would go nuts. DC would stay silent.

China is rushing to get this done while the US has a wimp for a POTUS. They know he'll do nothing about it.

It would be interesting to know what would happen to China both economically and militarily if the US had a POTUS with some guts. Maybe it would get some sanctions on it that would force US corporations to bring jobs home and China's economy would further tank and it couldn't afford all of this nonsense.

Don't give me any mistaken comments like "But the US owes China money" which is bullshit and irrelevant. China has to hold US dollars so that it can engage in international trade and it does so in the form of US treasuries. It would be out of biz if it sold any more than it has, recently. It's been selling because it's desperate for money. It wouldn't take much more than a feather to knock China over economically right now.

Future President Trump HATES China. He'll be the first POTUS in 50 years with any brains on the subject. Stand by for the end of the new China era, all done economically.

Cheers.

It is indeed good to have a prominent person in the USA railing against the CCP Boyz in Beijing, as Donald Trump is doing now that he's chasing after votes instead of money only. Trump's history of real estate and other dealings in New York with the Mafia gives him a good background to deal with the CCP Dictators.

Fact is the American CCP Dictators in Beijing most fear and despise is Hillary Rodham Clinton. She is the only person running for potus that I hear about from my CCP Chinese friends, associates, acquaintances from my several years there. The CCP Chinese get CCP media reports about Trump but he's a sideshow. HR Clinton is the mortal enemy of the CCP Boyz from her time as SecState.

While SecState Hillary Clinton presented the US Rebalance to the Pacific which the CCP Dictators correctly see as a strategy to contain the Chinese Communist Party and to isolate it and its malignancy from the world, starting with Beijing's own neighbors.

The hate-hate relationship began while HR Clinton was SecState and gave an interview in which she said the Chinese people would eventually, sooner or later, rise up and throw off the Communist Party and its dictatorship. Realistic or not, that is the worst thing the CCP dynasty of emperors in business suits could ever hear from anyone anywhere at any time.

No prominent American in government has spoken in such a way as HR Clinton did in this respect while SecState. The CCP detests and trembles when they see or hear Hillary Clinton. Donald Trump they can handle. Hillary Clinton they cannot accept or deal with in any way whatsoever.

[craigt3365]

I know this is off topic, but had to post. Just too funny.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/12155985/US-Senate-votes-to-rename-street-outside-Chinese-Embassy-Liu-Xiaobo-Plaza.html

US Senate votes to rename street outside Chinese Embassy 'Liu Xiaobo Plaza' The move would honour a jailed Chinese dissident and embarrass Beijing

[boomerangutang]

The US has the best stealth aircraft in the world. China has copies, but as always, is decades behind the curve. China copied one of the US's stealth fighters. It got the shape right, but didn't get the details/functions right. The resultant jet didn't meet Chinese needs (when they did test runs against US adversaries) so the Politburo chose to sell the jets to other countries.

Publicus makes some good points re; subs. I would add: a big reason Thailand plans to buy Chinese subs, is pressure from Chinese contractors (and it's easier to put 33% in one's pocket when dealing with the Chinese than with western suppliers). The Thai junta can't say no to China (they also quickly agreed to Chinese built-trains, funded by Chinese loans). Even as the ink was drying on the train contract, Thai observers were seeing problems (a Chinese voice in the background, "So sorry, too late to change anything, ha ha ha").

A Thailand with Chinese-made subs would likely take orders from China re; the subs' deployment. Can you imagine Thai admirals saying no to China? I can't. At best, we can expect Thailand to take a back seat to a SE Asian military conflict, along with Laos and Cambodia. Yet sometimes, no action speaks as loud as action. I'm not advocating Thailand directly challenge China, but it would be comforting to see Thailand showing camaraderie and support for its SE Asian neighbors. If one of Thailand's islands were being commandeered by a stronger military entity, I wouldn't doubt Thais would like to have support from Philippines and Vietnam.

[djlest]

wish we could put China, Isis, North Korea, and half the middle East on all those islands and nuke them in one go... Then we would be one step closer to a better world... probably have to throw mcdonalds, KFC and big Bank corporations on the fire too, but what step closer to John Lennons Imagine song we could be.

[GeorgesAbitbol]

wish we could put China, Isis, North Korea, and half the middle East on all those islands and nuke them in one go... Then we would be one step closer to a better world... probably have to throw mcdonalds, KFC and big Bank corporations on the fire too, but what step closer to John Lennons Imagine song we could be.

I understand your wish but I think this is called Genocide...not sure Lennon would approve

Edited February 18, 2016 by GeorgesAbitbol

[sead]

The US has wasted it economic power, diplomatic power, good will, military and 100,000's of thousands of lives in a folly in the Mid-East while the Mandarins in China have planned and planned. And yes, the US is their enemy. The piss ant "pivot" is nothing, TPP is a disaster for every country that signs it and will in the long run cause great harm to the US for misleading other countries into a corporate coup. The US is years late and trillions of dollars short for the "pivot" and China damn well knows it. If Thailand doesn't wake up it will find itself a vassal state of China like Lao. If ASEAN doesn't wake up and kick the US awake the entire region will be a vassal state of China. Hard sides will have to be taken, whether publically or quietly. Mark my words, there will be shooting soon in the China Seas. China will continue to push until it is pushed back. The US cannot afford to give them anymore time. Get the hell out of the Mid-East, support the Kurds 100%, but get out. Concentrate where the problem is and has been.

Hmm, Do i want a Chinese to be my boss or a islamistic Sharia ruled government. I can move back to Sweden but soon theres going to be more Islamists than others. if i stay in Thailand and China takes over in 10 years, then i think its same as to today. I envy those who are 90 years and dont have to see whats coming......

[wwest5829]

Hmm, just reflecting. How have many leaders United a people behind them? China's economic progress is under pressure and will be getting increased pressure from multiple fronts. Sooo, we point to an external threat. In this case, the U.S. and other western powers trying to thwart China's rightful growth and status as a worldwide power equal to the U.S. All Chinese need to support the Chinese Communist Party! You can change the names of the countries and the historical supposed threats but it works well with many times, countries, leaders.

[sgtsabai]

Publicus, one problem with your analysis, VN is no match in Sea/Air for China and neither is any other Asian country. Japan pretty damn close and can fight and Singapore will give them a run for the money. China tried invading VN a few years back, got their butts kicked, you know kinda' like we did...lol. Hey did we have a troll join in? Oh and as far as Islamic or Chinese or anybody that doesn't allow freedom, screw 'em. A totalitarian government, whether communist, islamic, left or right, alleged democratic or not still sucks and deserves a fight. Good read: http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/02/17/crunch-time-for-washington-and-beijing-in-the-south-china-sea/?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=New%20Campaign&utm_term=%2AEditors%20Picks