'Simply impossible': Husband of Harvard debt-skipping dentist rejects repayment deadline

[arrowsdawdle]

Why doesn't he just state the obvious, Thais rarely re-pay debts ?

Intentionally, of course, because once they are written off as NPL they are given a tax moratorium.

[ratcatcher]

Send in these clowns, they might give her attitude an adjustment.

[CaptHaddock]

Can Thailand request that she be extradited back to Thailand? Would the USA ever agree to that, especially since I understand she is now a US citizen? Filing charges would get her detained if she ever went near Thailand or maybe traveled through some other foreign country that had an interest in pleasing Thailand

No. Extradition is for criminal cases, not civil lawsuits. I doubt she can be sued in a civil action in the US for defaulting on her loan in Thailand. Probably the loan agreements she signed specified the jurisdiction for legal disputes and that wouldn't be the US.

[Caveat Emptor]

This is only speculation I know but I wouldn't be surprised if her decision not to bother about the loan started almost as soon as she arrived in the US.

I'm sure some posters have had problems over being a guarantor and it can't be fun. I declined to act as one for someone whose reputation about money preceded her and was I lucky because months later she was in hiding from the type of people it's not advisable to owe money to.

It's so easy, get, or con, people to help by signing as a guarantor then throw them under a bus.

Edited February 19, 2016 by Caveat Emptor

[mekongsailor]

Can Thailand request that she be extradited back to Thailand? Would the USA ever agree to that, especially since I understand she is now a US citizen? Filing charges would get her detained if she ever went near Thailand or maybe traveled through some other foreign country that had an interest in pleasing Thailand

No. Extradition is for criminal cases, not civil lawsuits. I doubt she can be sued in a civil action in the US for defaulting on her loan in Thailand. Probably the loan agreements she signed specified the jurisdiction for legal disputes and that wouldn't be the US.

Isn't "fraud" a criminal case?

[jasonsamui55]

since when is a scholarship a debt? isn't the whole idea of a scholarship to be a gift? and, even so, if she doesn't pay it, why would there be criminal charges brought against her? its obviously a civil matter. she could just dismiss it in a bankruptcy court or similar, especially if she's in the US now which surely would be more lenient towards her "foreign" debts than a thai bankruptcy court, assuming they have such things. and, as a third option for her, wouldn't there be a statute of limitations to collect old debts and wouldn't they likely have run out or eventually will run out if she avoids it long enough.

[Ks45672]

Sounds like they need to sell the house!

Maybe better sell the Porsche

I wonder if he even has a Porsche, i know a Thai called Lexus and he drives a very crappy Nissan.

He has a Porsche valued at 30mln Baht

At that price, with her looks, she would never get cashed...

[CaptHaddock]

Can Thailand request that she be extradited back to Thailand? Would the USA ever agree to that, especially since I understand she is now a US citizen? Filing charges would get her detained if she ever went near Thailand or maybe traveled through some other foreign country that had an interest in pleasing Thailand

No. Extradition is for criminal cases, not civil lawsuits. I doubt she can be sued in a civil action in the US for defaulting on her loan in Thailand. Probably the loan agreements she signed specified the jurisdiction for legal disputes and that wouldn't be the US.

Isn't "fraud" a criminal case?

She didn't commit fraud. She defaulted on payments on her debt. You would have to demonstrate that she knowingly misrepresented herself on the loan application, which is probably not the case.

[loong]

So the husband's net salary falls $1,100 short of the mortgage repayments. How on earth did he manage to get a mortgage?

Her salary is used totally for their son's daycare. A dentist in USA only earning enough to cover one child's daycare cost?

Their combined salaries do not cover the mortgage+ daycare??

How do they eat, pay utility bills or any other expenses?

I just don't believe it.

[atyclb]

Yes theres tons of cheating, stealing and bribery in thai society. abac poll shows near 80% ok with it. apparently the mahidol population represents the % of society not ok with it. more than 5000 scholarships via mahidol did not have anyone default except this dentist.

in return for having a free education including living expenses at harvard she agreed to work as a dentist - teacher at a normal dentist - teacher salary for x number of years. thai dentists i know have quite a decent life.

other such students that decided to not fulfill the terms did indeed reimburse the provider. a usa dentist avg salary is 149,000 dollars/ year, easily enough to repay. she could have easily repaid over the last 20 years had she chosen to do so.

yes it seems like a lot of money now but it did not happen overnight but over 20 years.

[CaptHaddock]

since when is a scholarship a debt? isn't the whole idea of a scholarship to be a gift? and, even so, if she doesn't pay it, why would there be criminal charges brought against her? its obviously a civil matter. she could just dismiss it in a bankruptcy court or similar, especially if she's in the US now which surely would be more lenient towards her "foreign" debts than a thai bankruptcy court, assuming they have such things. and, as a third option for her, wouldn't there be a statute of limitations to collect old debts and wouldn't they likely have run out or eventually will run out if she avoids it long enough.

Please try, try, try to understand that when the Thais use the word "scholarship" in this case they do not mean that it is a free grant, but a grant with either work or repayment obligations. I know that it deeply offends your sense of order that people could possibly use a word like that with a connotation that is not consistent with English usage, but you might reflect on the fact that you are now in a foreign country.

The US courts do not have jurisdiction over civil actions in Thailand. There is a Thai statute of limitations on her debt obligation which will run out in about three years, after which she will be free to re-enter Thailand with impunity.

[slapout]

The lady ( using term lady, loosely) is a thief and her husband is supportingt her in cheating the very people who made it possible for her to have the material things she now has, plus her dental practice. He pleads lack of funds to repay debt, but does not mention his, and her income, assets, etc.

Those who co signed for her are learning another lesson in the school of hard knocks, much too late to recover what they lost, both money wise and trust of people. The world is full of people like this who go thru life screwing others out of what they can in any way they can. This also makes it difficult to trust and do business without protecting yourself, legally, against these type of people, iunless they put up some assets which covers the amount of money involved.

[scorecard]

Am I only the only one who's not mad about what this woman has done/is doing?

Don't get me wrong - what's going on is absolutely wrong and if all is true, she needs to pay back what she owes. But I can't help but feel locals are just venting against her because she's a Thai who has a better life abroad and isn't coming back.

With all the blatant corruption and stealing that goes on here with the rich and powerful, I'd love to see some consistency. She's just an easy target. There are a lot worse people here who the public don't even bat an eyelid with.

Where's you comment about the local people who have gone into big time debt to pay her loan because they were the guarantors, some limiting their own ability to take care of their own immediate families?

Should they suffer?

As I said, she should be made to repay her debts. People have every right to be angry.

My point was; what's needed is some consistency. People getting really angry with this and rightly so. But why aren't they getting as angry with people who get away with murder and blatant theft from the people.

You could say she's a product of her society. Little or no reprecussions or consequences for her actions because of who she thinks she is.

I'm sure the authorities are doing all they can to recoup the money so let them get on with it. The authorities on the other are doing very little about other miscarriages and you see very little anger.

Again. It's all about context and consistency.

Nice attempt at a save, I don't buy your argument.

[rchapstick]

So the husband's net salary falls $1,100 short of the mortgage repayments. How on earth did he manage to get a mortgage?

Her salary is used totally for their son's daycare. A dentist in USA only earning enough to cover one child's daycare cost?

Their combined salaries do not cover the mortgage+ daycare??

How do they eat, pay utility bills or any other expenses?

I just don't believe it.

I "think" what hubby is saying is that, where he to cover the 30mm baht over the time period suggested, he would be $1100 short of the mortgage repayments.

And the Thai wife is an "Instructor" at Harvard Dental School, not a Professor, or an Assistant Professor. And who knows if her small (1-4 person) dental practice makes any money at all? I can envision a scenario where she really makes next to nothing at the moment.

I'm not trying to defend her, but the University is being foolish not to negotiate with the couple. Despite the speculation on this forum, we have no idea what the couple can and cannot afford. And there is little legally that a Thai can do to enforce this debt agreement in a US court of law. Especially if the husband is the primary wage earner, there is even less leverage. And no, the US will not deport her. Don't be silly.

As to those that co-signed the loan ... I have no sympathy. The whole point of having a co-signer is to guarantee a loan if it goes south. Don't sign if you are not willing to pay.

[CaptHaddock]

Yes theres tons of cheating, stealing and bribery in thai society. abac poll shows near 80% ok with it. apparently the mahidol population represents the % of society not ok with it. more than 5000 scholarships via mahidol did not have anyone default except this dentist.

in return for having a free education including living expenses at harvard she agreed to work as a dentist - teacher at a normal dentist - teacher salary for x number of years. thai dentists i know have quite a decent life.

other such students that decided to not fulfill the terms did indeed reimburse the provider. a usa dentist avg salary is 149,000 dollars/ year, easily enough to repay. she could have easily repaid over the last 20 years had she chosen to do so.

yes it seems like a lot of money now but it did not happen overnight but over 20 years.

Her income is a lot higher than $149k/year. Her salary as a faculty member at the Harvard Dental School was reported as $200,000/year which sounds about right, but she is also a member of a private dental group which certainly nets her several hundred thousand dollars more each year. As a Harvard faculty member she is at the very top of her profession. She probably makes north of $500,000 per year.

She and her husband are garden-variety psychopaths, taking advantage of others in the most blatant way. The world is full of them. One reason, among many, never to co-sign a loan for anyone, ever.

[scorecard]

The lady ( using term lady, loosely) is a thief and her husband is supportingt her in cheating the very people who made it possible for her to have the material things she now has, plus her dental practice. He pleads lack of funds to repay debt, but does not mention his, and her income, assets, etc.

Those who co signed for her are learning another lesson in the school of hard knocks, much too late to recover what they lost, both money wise and trust of people. The world is full of people like this who go thru life screwing others out of what they can in any way they can. This also makes it difficult to trust and do business without protecting yourself, legally, against these type of people, iunless they put up some assets which covers the amount of money involved.

Add, they have had 20 years to make part payments, and if they had made part payments the debt would have not got to the massive amount now outstanding, and ongoing the lower balance would have been much more manageable.

Now, after no payments for 20 whatever years they try to claim they don't have the money.

Irresponsible unethical smart-ass thieves.

Edited February 19, 2016 by scorecard

[CaptHaddock]

So the husband's net salary falls $1,100 short of the mortgage repayments. How on earth did he manage to get a mortgage?

Her salary is used totally for their son's daycare. A dentist in USA only earning enough to cover one child's daycare cost?

Their combined salaries do not cover the mortgage+ daycare??

How do they eat, pay utility bills or any other expenses?

I just don't believe it.

I "think" what hubby is saying is that, where he to cover the 30mm baht over the time period suggested, he would be $1100 short of the mortgage repayments.

And the Thai wife is an "Instructor" at Harvard Dental School, not a Professor, or an Assistant Professor. And who knows if her small (1-4 person) dental practice makes any money at all? I can envision a scenario where she really makes next to nothing at the moment.

I'm not trying to defend her, but the University is being foolish not to negotiate with the couple. Despite the speculation on this forum, we have no idea what the couple can and cannot afford. And there is little legally that a Thai can do to enforce this debt agreement in a US court of law. Especially if the husband is the primary wage earner, there is even less leverage. And no, the US will not deport her. Don't be silly.

As to those that co-signed the loan ... I have no sympathy. The whole point of having a co-signer is to guarantee a loan if it goes south. Don't sign if you are not willing to pay.

I have a lot of sympathy for the innocent victims in this case as I do for anyone so cruelly exploited. The university understood the risk that she would abscond beyond their legal reach. So, they insisted on guarantors who could not escape. That's certainly what any prudent lender would do if making such a loan. Mahidol has no incentive now to chase a wild goose looking for repayment from her when they will be made whole by the co-signors.

[Artisi]

Very simple solution - return to the university that funded her education just as she agreed to do in the first place and the problem is solved.

But no - skip out like a weasel and leave it up to other people to pay -- just a low scum act - nothing more and no excuses.

[GAZZPA]

Am I only the only one who's not mad about what this woman has done/is doing?

Don't get me wrong - what's going on is absolutely wrong and if all is true, she needs to pay back what she owes. But I can't help but feel locals are just venting against her because she's a Thai who has a better life abroad and isn't coming back.

With all the blatant corruption and stealing that goes on here with the rich and powerful, I'd love to see some consistency. She's just an easy target. There are a lot worse people here who the public don't even bat an eyelid with.

Yes I agree that there is "blatant corruption and stealing that goes on here with rich and powerful" and some are held to account but many are not.

This woman borrowed the money and left her grantor's in the (_____) because she simply didn't want to pay the money back and thinking she is untouchable now in the US.

Now if there was a full and transparent audit of her income then I'm Shure she could have paid the money back BUT chose not to.

How about her family? why are they not coming forward to help their daughter? There is talk of them being not short of a dollar or two and not exactly strait shooters.

So as you say rich and powerful getting away with corruption and stealing.

If you can not meet your financial obligation's then you need to liquidate assets to meet those obligation's, very simple.

There are plenty of Thai's that are paying back their debit over time including my wife many of whom are on very minimum wages, so why should she be allowed to just walk away?

No sympathy here as it seems she deserves none.

Difficult one. Not sure that they are refusing to pay the money back, from what i see he is saying that he can't pay the loan back in the timeframe of 2.5 years.

I don't know their financial situation but sometimes people get into debt and get into trouble unintentionally and then it becomes very difficult.

If she borrowed the money in Thailand and the court has demanded payment I don't believe they have the jurisdiction to enforce the ruling in the US. They would likely have to file a separate law suit in the US under US law.

This is messy, expensive and takes time and if the family are saying they cannot pay now then it is also risky, they may not get their money back at all. We also don't know how much (if any) equity he has in his property, it may be there is nothing to gain by filing a lawsuit.

Better solution would be to draw up an agreement with the debtors in the US outlining an agreed payment plan.. Or the debtors get a loan locally with sensible payment terms and pay back the debt immediately (if they will do that)

I am not an expert in these things but i know you can only enforce some court rulings abroad if there are reciprocal agreements in place, for Thailand there certainly are no such agreements. so better sit around a table and work it out.

[Artisi]

So the husband's net salary falls $1,100 short of the mortgage repayments. How on earth did he manage to get a mortgage?

Her salary is used totally for their son's daycare. A dentist in USA only earning enough to cover one child's daycare cost?

Their combined salaries do not cover the mortgage+ daycare??

How do they eat, pay utility bills or any other expenses?

I just don't believe it.

I "think" what hubby is saying is that, where he to cover the 30mm baht over the time period suggested, he would be $1100 short of the mortgage repayments.

And the Thai wife is an "Instructor" at Harvard Dental School, not a Professor, or an Assistant Professor. And who knows if her small (1-4 person) dental practice makes any money at all? I can envision a scenario where she really makes next to nothing at the moment.

I'm not trying to defend her, but the University is being foolish not to negotiate with the couple. Despite the speculation on this forum, we have no idea what the couple can and cannot afford. And there is little legally that a Thai can do to enforce this debt agreement in a US court of law. Especially if the husband is the primary wage earner, there is even less leverage. And no, the US will not deport her. Don't be silly.

As to those that co-signed the loan ... I have no sympathy. The whole point of having a co-signer is to guarantee a loan if it goes south. Don't sign if you are not willing to pay.

I have a lot of sympathy for the innocent victims in this case as I do for anyone so cruelly exploited. The university understood the risk that she would abscond beyond their legal reach. So, they insisted on guarantors who could not escape. That's certainly what any prudent lender would do if making such a loan. Mahidol has no incentive now to chase a wild goose looking for repayment from her when they will be made whole by the co-signors.

"The university understood the risk that she would abscond beyond their legal reach. So, they insisted on guarantors who could not escape"

Your comment is so wrong it borders on stupidity as they didn't have to understand anything - they simply applied standard procedure , all loans must be guaranteed before they are issued.

[CockneyGit]

Firstly, how the <deleted> does it cost 30m THB ($800,000) to train to be a dentist..??

Secondly, the word 'scholarship' surely means that it doesn't have to be paid back..??

[Mister Fixit]

Why doesn't he just state the obvious, Thais rarely re-pay debts ?

Quite. You don't lend money here, you kiss it goodbye ...

[Bench499d]

So the husband's net salary falls $1,100 short of the mortgage repayments. How on earth did he manage to get a mortgage?

Her salary is used totally for their son's daycare. A dentist in USA only earning enough to cover one child's daycare cost?

Their combined salaries do not cover the mortgage+ daycare??

How do they eat, pay utility bills or any other expenses?

I just don't believe it.

I "think" what hubby is saying is that, where he to cover the 30mm baht over the time period suggested, he would be $1100 short of the mortgage repayments.

And the Thai wife is an "Instructor" at Harvard Dental School, not a Professor, or an Assistant Professor. And who knows if her small (1-4 person) dental practice makes any money at all? I can envision a scenario where she really makes next to nothing at the moment.

I'm not trying to defend her, but the University is being foolish not to negotiate with the couple. Despite the speculation on this forum, we have no idea what the couple can and cannot afford. And there is little legally that a Thai can do to enforce this debt agreement in a US court of law. Especially if the husband is the primary wage earner, there is even less leverage. And no, the US will not deport her. Don't be silly.

As to those that co-signed the loan ... I have no sympathy. The whole point of having a co-signer is to guarantee a loan if it goes south. Don't sign if you are not willing to pay.

I have a lot of sympathy for the innocent victims in this case as I do for anyone so cruelly exploited. The university understood the risk that she would abscond beyond their legal reach. So, they insisted on guarantors who could not escape. That's certainly what any prudent lender would do if making such a loan. Mahidol has no incentive now to chase a wild goose looking for repayment from her when they will be made whole by the co-signors.

"The university understood the risk that she would abscond beyond their legal reach. So, they insisted on guarantors who could not escape"

Your comment is so wrong it borders on stupidity as they didn't have to understand anything - they simply applied standard procedure , all loans must be guaranteed before they are issued.

Yeah they understood the risk and applied standard procedure they had developed to mitigate such risks as...the debtor absconding. All loans must be guaranteed before they are issued? Not in every jurisdiction and not in Thailand.

[NickJ]

Many many Thai students that finish there studies after being in the US for years. Partner up with each other and go on spending sprees with there credit cards. Ship this stuff home and tear up there maxed out cards......That would be fraud. I think this dentist should pay off her loans over a fair period.

[CaptHaddock]

So the husband's net salary falls $1,100 short of the mortgage repayments. How on earth did he manage to get a mortgage?

Her salary is used totally for their son's daycare. A dentist in USA only earning enough to cover one child's daycare cost?

Their combined salaries do not cover the mortgage+ daycare??

How do they eat, pay utility bills or any other expenses?

I just don't believe it.

I "think" what hubby is saying is that, where he to cover the 30mm baht over the time period suggested, he would be $1100 short of the mortgage repayments.

And the Thai wife is an "Instructor" at Harvard Dental School, not a Professor, or an Assistant Professor. And who knows if her small (1-4 person) dental practice makes any money at all? I can envision a scenario where she really makes next to nothing at the moment.

I'm not trying to defend her, but the University is being foolish not to negotiate with the couple. Despite the speculation on this forum, we have no idea what the couple can and cannot afford. And there is little legally that a Thai can do to enforce this debt agreement in a US court of law. Especially if the husband is the primary wage earner, there is even less leverage. And no, the US will not deport her. Don't be silly.

As to those that co-signed the loan ... I have no sympathy. The whole point of having a co-signer is to guarantee a loan if it goes south. Don't sign if you are not willing to pay.

I have a lot of sympathy for the innocent victims in this case as I do for anyone so cruelly exploited. The university understood the risk that she would abscond beyond their legal reach. So, they insisted on guarantors who could not escape. That's certainly what any prudent lender would do if making such a loan. Mahidol has no incentive now to chase a wild goose looking for repayment from her when they will be made whole by the co-signors.

"The university understood the risk that she would abscond beyond their legal reach. So, they insisted on guarantors who could not escape"

Your comment is so wrong it borders on stupidity as they didn't have to understand anything - they simply applied standard procedure , all loans must be guaranteed before they are issued.

You have some deep misconception going on. Not all loans have guarantors or co-signers even in Thailand, else there would be hardly be such thing as a Non-Performing Loan. In Thailand as I understand it, requiring a co-signor is an exceptional requirement of loans for foreign study because of the very increased risk of default demonstrated in this case. Another special provision of loans for foreign study in Thailand is that the debt is forgiven if the graduate returns to teach in Thailand for a specified period of time. If the borrower decides not to fulfill the teaching requirement the outstanding loan amount is tripled. These certainly sound like exceptional features of a loan to me since I have never heard of such features before. But that's understandable because of the particular risk in this kind of loan that equips the borrower to skip.

[scorecard]

Am I only the only one who's not mad about what this woman has done/is doing?

Don't get me wrong - what's going on is absolutely wrong and if all is true, she needs to pay back what she owes. But I can't help but feel locals are just venting against her because she's a Thai who has a better life abroad and isn't coming back.

With all the blatant corruption and stealing that goes on here with the rich and powerful, I'd love to see some consistency. She's just an easy target. There are a lot worse people here who the public don't even bat an eyelid with.

Where's you comment about the local people who have gone into big time debt to pay her loan because they were the guarantors, some limiting their own ability to take care of their own immediate families?

Should they suffer?

As I said, she should be made to repay her debts. People have every right to be angry.

My point was; what's needed is some consistency. People getting really angry with this and rightly so. But why aren't they getting as angry with people who get away with murder and blatant theft from the people.

You could say she's a product of her society. Little or no reprecussions or consequences for her actions because of who she thinks she is.

I'm sure the authorities are doing all they can to recoup the money so let them get on with it. The authorities on the other are doing very little about other miscarriages and you see very little anger.

Again. It's all about context and consistency.

.

This girl has done basically the same as the other 60,000 govt employees who haven't repaid college debts from current wages...

Likely the thai authority's can't do anything because she's out of their duristiction and harvard won't make her pay....

She will get a lot more negative critics because cowardly Thais will attack her nice American life on Facebook when they won't say anything to the corrupt policeman who lives next door in the community....

It's also true that many / maybe all the other Thai defaulters on student loans are getting pressured to pay. I know, in the last 6 to 8 months several outer circle folks in my family have come forward to ask for money for this purpose.

They know they have to approach my Thai son, not me, he tells them yes we will loan you enough to make a payment to avoid your assets (car, m/cycle etc) being taken. They have to give my son documentation and a signed repayment agreement (repayment to my son). He gives them the money on the basis of when 90% repaid (to my son) they can ask for the next assistance funds. Three people on this plan currently.

Do they privately badmouth the 'stingy farang'?

Yes they do but my son has also made it very plain 'badmouth my father' and no assistance.

[rkidlad]

Am I only the only one who's not mad about what this woman has done/is doing?

Don't get me wrong - what's going on is absolutely wrong and if all is true, she needs to pay back what she owes. But I can't help but feel locals are just venting against her because she's a Thai who has a better life abroad and isn't coming back.

With all the blatant corruption and stealing that goes on here with the rich and powerful, I'd love to see some consistency. She's just an easy target. There are a lot worse people here who the public don't even bat an eyelid with.

Where's you comment about the local people who have gone into big time debt to pay her loan because they were the guarantors, some limiting their own ability to take care of their own immediate families?

Should they suffer?

As I said, she should be made to repay her debts. People have every right to be angry.

My point was; what's needed is some consistency. People getting really angry with this and rightly so. But why aren't they getting as angry with people who get away with murder and blatant theft from the people.

You could say she's a product of her society. Little or no reprecussions or consequences for her actions because of who she thinks she is.

I'm sure the authorities are doing all they can to recoup the money so let them get on with it. The authorities on the other are doing very little about other miscarriages and you see very little anger.

Again. It's all about context and consistency.

Nice attempt at a save, I don't buy your argument.

It's not for you to buy.

[rkidlad]

Am I only the only one who's not mad about what this woman has done/is doing?

Don't get me wrong - what's going on is absolutely wrong and if all is true, she needs to pay back what she owes. But I can't help but feel locals are just venting against her because she's a Thai who has a better life abroad and isn't coming back.

With all the blatant corruption and stealing that goes on here with the rich and powerful, I'd love to see some consistency. She's just an easy target. There are a lot worse people here who the public don't even bat an eyelid with.

So you mean that its ok for everyone to steal? Free for all ? If they catch a kid stealing a minor value thing in a convenience store he will end up in court and very possibly in gaol.

Nope. That's not what I meant.

[CaptHaddock]

Scorecard,

You must be getting usury rates to make it worthwhile to lend to borrowers already on the verge of default. Are you, by any chance, a loan-shark?

[mercman24]

when this topic first hit the headlines, it came out that there are 60,000, who have not repaid loans,so how about putting some heat on the other,59,999, and some of them in high places.