London's Boris Johnson backs Britain leaving 28-nation EU

[Alwyn]

Good, finally he does the right thing. Get rid of that old ball and chain called EU.

And possible a smaller country to boot. I fully expect that Scotland will have another referendum on succession - both because of unfulfilled promises and because of a change of status of UK as a whole.....

That really would be the icing on the cake!

[RuamRudy]

RuamRudy, on 22 Feb 2016 - 14:57, said:

SgtRock, on 22 Feb 2016 - 14:18, said:

cumgranosalum, on 22 Feb 2016 - 13:53, said:
cumgranosalum, on 22 Feb 2016 - 13:53, said:cumgranosalum, on 22 Feb 2016 - 13:53, said:

SgtRock, on 22 Feb 2016 - 11:13, said:
SgtRock, on 22 Feb 2016 - 11:13, said:SgtRock, on 22 Feb 2016 - 11:13, said:


Yes, of course, you have no idea of who they actually are, but they must be rightwing nutters.

Stock answer for those that have no argument to make.

If the SNP had campaigned on an out of UK and out of EU ticket, IMO, it would probably be still negotiating Independence.

Some people have a warped interpretation of Independence, and by no stretch of the imagination can being a member of the EU be construed as being Independent.

You don't seem to hve much grasp of what's happening in Scotland. any independence referendum now would lead to a landslide in favor. Scotland would then negotiate EU membership. This would of course be easier with England outside the EU.

You do not have a grasp of what the word Independent means. You cannot be Independent and an EU member, it is an oxymoron.

Under the current criteria for EU membership, Scotland would not qualify for EU membership. It would also be blocked by Spain and probably a few others.

But don't let facts get in your way.

Favor ? Epic fail.

Those aren't facts, but merely your suppositions, the same tired old arguments that remain unanswered from the Scottish referendum. Even the experts couldn't settle these questions at the time.

I would suggest that you familiarise yourself with these:

http://ec.europa.eu/enlargement/policy/conditions-membership/chapters-of-the-acquis/index_en.htm

Then come back and tell me that it is supposition on my part.

When you have done that, then in your own words, you could try explaining why you think being an EU member can possibly be considered as being Independent.

I was referring to your assertion that Scotland would be blocked by Spain from applying for membership - that is assuming it is ever considered to have left the EU. That was another question that was never resolved.

However it may become clearer soon - recent polls (this week) have Scots between 66% and 77% in favour of staying in the EU. Sorry, on my mobile so I cannot link to them, but Google will show you the way.

As for your final point, I thought that would be obvious, but I will try to clarify.

The UK is in the driving seat when it comes to EU membership. It can decide to leave should it choose to do so. Scotland, despite looking overwhelmingly pro-EU, will quite possibly be dragged out against its will.

Scotland, however, does not hold the same amount of power within the UK. We are afforded powers from Westminster which can be arbitrarily withdrawn at any time.

Our position within the UK is weaker than the UK's position within the EU.

[bkkcanuck8]

Good, finally he does the right thing. Get rid of that old ball and chain called EU.

And possible a smaller country to boot. I fully expect that Scotland will have another referendum on succession - both because of unfulfilled promises and because of a change of status of UK as a whole.....

That really would be the icing on the cake!

According to some of my (few) Scottish friends, they are definitely looking at a rerun.

The No side won last time, but the exit polls indicated that without last minute promises it would have been a Yes vote -- and that the perception that the promises have not been kept could tip the scales.

One of the big arguments used by the No side was -- an independent Scotland would have to reapply to join EU and would lose membership.... that argument would be off the table. I suspect an independent Scotland would be fast-tracked -- since EU would not have to worry about upsetting one of it's members.

For the few that think this is not a potential problem with an independence vote - consider two edge cases.

Scotland voting to stay in the EU, England voting to exit - net vote indicating stay (this would cause political stresses by those in England that would be bitterly disappointed at the outcome).

Scotland voting to stay in the EU, England voting to exit - net vote indicating leave.... this would definitely trigger another referendum vote and a likely Yes to succeed.

Either way - Scottish nationalists believe that this is an opportunity that will lead to them achieving their goals.

[Alwyn]

Boris Johnson more clown than a mayor

He's not a clown or buffoon at all. He's a very intelligent and concise person. He puts on a persona like this to get people who don't understand him (like yourself - no offence) to drop their guard as they're not taking him seriously.

[SgtRock]

The UK is in the driving seat when it comes to EU membership. It can decide to leave should it choose to do so. Scotland, despite looking overwhelmingly pro-EU, will quite possibly be dragged out against its will.

You can stop right there.

No need to say anything else.

Cameron. being the highly talented individual that he is, manage to completely wreck the driving seat.

[RuamRudy]

The UK is in the driving seat when it comes to EU membership. It can decide to leave should it choose to do so. Scotland, despite looking overwhelmingly pro-EU, will quite possibly be dragged out against its will.

You can stop right there.

No need to say anything else.

Cameron. being the highly talented individual that he is, manage to completely wreck the driving seat.

I didn't claim that I was going to explain my point in a single sentence. Try reading the subsequent ones - or don't ask questions if you are not prepared to consider the full reply.

[Alwyn]

Good, finally he does the right thing. Get rid of that old ball and chain called EU.

And possible a smaller country to boot. I fully expect that Scotland will have another referendum on succession - both because of unfulfilled promises and because of a change of status of UK as a whole.....

That really would be the icing on the cake!

According to some of my (few) Scottish friends, they are definitely looking at a rerun.

The No side won last time, but the exit polls indicated that without last minute promises it would have been a Yes vote -- and that the perception that the promises have not been kept could tip the scales.

One of the big arguments used by the No side was -- an independent Scotland would have to reapply to join EU and would lose membership.... that argument would be off the table. I suspect an independent Scotland would be fast-tracked -- since EU would not have to worry about upsetting one of it's members.

For the few that think this is not a potential problem with an independence vote - consider two edge cases.

Scotland voting to stay in the EU, England voting to exit - net vote indicating stay (this would cause political stresses by those in England that would be bitterly disappointed at the outcome).

Scotland voting to stay in the EU, England voting to exit - net vote indicating leave.... this would definitely trigger another referendum vote and a likely Yes to succeed.

Either way - Scottish nationalists believe that this is an opportunity that will lead to them achieving their goals.

I obviously can't speak for all Englishmen but most I know - if not all - really wish Scotland a win on this matter and get their independence. They should be independent and that would leave us unmolested by their constant whining and complaining about both Westminster and the English as a nation.

[RuamRudy]

Good, finally he does the right thing. Get rid of that old ball and chain called EU.

And possible a smaller country to boot. I fully expect that Scotland will have another referendum on succession - both because of unfulfilled promises and because of a change of status of UK as a whole.....

That really would be the icing on the cake!

According to some of my (few) Scottish friends, they are definitely looking at a rerun.

The No side won last time, but the exit polls indicated that without last minute promises it would have been a Yes vote -- and that the perception that the promises have not been kept could tip the scales.

One of the big arguments used by the No side was -- an independent Scotland would have to reapply to join EU and would lose membership.... that argument would be off the table. I suspect an independent Scotland would be fast-tracked -- since EU would not have to worry about upsetting one of it's members.

For the few that think this is not a potential problem with an independence vote - consider two edge cases.

Scotland voting to stay in the EU, England voting to exit - net vote indicating stay (this would cause political stresses by those in England that would be bitterly disappointed at the outcome).

Scotland voting to stay in the EU, England voting to exit - net vote indicating leave.... this would definitely trigger another referendum vote and a likely Yes to succeed.

Either way - Scottish nationalists believe that this is an opportunity that will lead to them achieving their goals.

I obviously can't speak for all Englishmen but most I know - if not all - really wish Scotland a win on this matter and get their independence. They should be independent and that would leave us unmolested by their constant whining and complaining about both Westminster and the English as a nation.

This is the great myth that, while often quoted, is never demonstrated. It is true that we complain about Westminster because there is much to complain about, but other than the inevitable few idiots who live and breathe Braveheart, there is no discernible anti English sentiment in Scotland. Or maybe I am wrong and you will point me to mainstream anti English rhetoric?

On the other hand, have a look at the Telegraph or Mail forums and appreciate just how much invective our English neighbours pile upon us routinely - usually with the claim that, ironically, that we are anti English!

[bkkcanuck8]

This is the great myth that, while often quoted, is never demonstrated. It is true that we complain about Westminster because there is much to complain about, but other than the inevitable few idiots who live and breathe Braveheart, there is no discernible anti English sentiment in Scotland. Or maybe I am wrong and you will point me to mainstream anti English rhetoric?

On the other hand, have a look at the Telegraph or Mail forums and appreciate just how much invective our English neighbours pile upon us routinely - usually with the claim that, ironically, that we are anti English!

Pro-independence is often cast as being anti-(who you are gaining independence from) -- which it can be for some, while for others it is being able to control one's destiny. People that cast it that way, do so one way when they are against, while turn around and argue the exact opposite when they are on the other side (re England -> EU; Scotland -> England). From the outside there seems to be as much of a political schism between Scotland / England as there is in Canada with Quebec / rest of Canada. The problem is that you have areas which are significantly politically different that want control of certain aspects of governance that are held centrally, then it becomes an argument that if you devolve these powers to Scotland (in this case) we have to devolve them to everyone.... but it does not happen because other parts of the union don't really need or want them. It is an argument that we have in Canada -- and at a certain point this lack of respect for differences leads to stress and eventually a need to push for full independence.

I find it funny though that people currently living in Thailand (on either side) would actually like this to happen -- because they are the ones that are going to be hit the hardest. England will have to exchange more money externally to buy oil, the additional instability and balance of payments will drive the value of the English currency down.... An independent Scotland would have to either adopt the EU or negotiate with England to use it (anti-independence politicians say this is not possible). For quite a while after the vote of independence the amount of Baht people will get for their English pensions will fall through the floor so to speak.

[Grouse]

emilymat, on 22 Feb 2016 - 13:26, said:

SgtRock, on 22 Feb 2016 - 10:53, said:

cumgranosalum, on 22 Feb 2016 - 09:07, said:cumgranosalum, on 22 Feb 2016 - 09:07, said:

If UK leaves the EU within months Scotland will leave the union. England (maybe Wales) will then have to renegotiate 40 years of laws and treaties to maintain any semblance of trade with europe. People with property in Europe will have to renegotiate both the ownership and their rights of residence. Those with jobs in Europe will have to get new visas.....those who rely on Europe for food and wine will have to wait for taxes and duties to be re-allotted, those with foreign cars will find they all have import duties. the NHS will be completely dismantled all labour laws will be re-written to the advantage of employers and the UK diet will consist of boiled mutton and turnips.

Sturgeon made this claim yesterday.

You might want to check out the comments sections in the Scottish press. She has made a grave error in judgement.

The vast majority of commentators disagree with her claims that Scotland should be a part of the EU in the event of a Brexit.

I watched her interview on the Andrew Marr programme yesterday. She said she believes a Brexit by the UK as a whole, with Scotland voting to stay, would trigger a referendum. There's nothing new here as this is a mantra the SNP have been running since they lost the referendum. It raises some interesting issues though.

If you're Scottish and believe in independence then do you vote to exit the EU to 'trigger' the referendum ?

But.....If too many Scots did that then Scotland would vote to leave the EU, and the UK might vote to stay!.

How hard does Nicola S campaign for a 'remain' vote, given she says she is passionate about not leaving?.

Essentially, as with Boris, this forthcoming referendum is not about what's best for Britain, but what is best for internal political futures.

One thing I can agree with Nigel F about, is that we wouldn't be having this referendum if it were not for the percieved threat of UKIP in the couple of years run up to last years general election

Agreed.

The SNP want Independence from the rest of the UK. That has always been the case and it will not change. I cannot understand the SNP logic in being Independent from the rest of the UK but remain in the EU. Being a member of the EU in no way means being Independent, it means the exact opposite.

The comments sections in the Scottish Press clearly show that people do not agree with her assertion that the Public in Scotland wish to remain in the EU. It is not just one newspaper, it is all of the ones I read the article on.

Roughly 55% against 45% voted to remain in the UK. I believe that this figure would have been reversed if the SNP were also advocating being free of the EU.

For sure, it is always politics first and the public far behind. That is never going to change until the whole political system is scrapped and thought out again. Farage and UKIP certainly had their part to play in bringing about this referendum. I really think the real reason it was offered was because Cameron never thought for one second that he would have won the GE outright. He probably thought the best he would have got would have been another coalition and that was his get out of jail free card for calling it off.

It is being reported in some of the press that his much vaunted benefits deal is going to be taken to the EU Courts, as it is possibly illegal.

You should also have a read at some of the analysis and observations in the EU Press over this '' Deal ''

I posted some of them in this thread.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/896734-camerons-eu-reform-deal-gets-mixed-reactions-from-britons/

Wanting to leave the UK but remain in Europe is entirely consistent.

Many Scots can not abide Westminster attitudes and the social injustice this inculcates.

I might just buy a place in Edinburgh if an independent Scotland is part of the EU and the Little Englanders are out

[Grouse]

I suspect that Boris might have seen this chart:

Which shows that the UK is the 3rd largest contributor to the EU budget. That is about 4% of the overall budget or about 5 billion Euros. Now that may be a small figure compared to the benefits of belonging to the EU, but it is a large enough amount to get people's attention!

Current figures can be found here.... with a bit of clicking around:

http://ec.europa.eu/budget/figures/interactive/index_en.cfm

28 counties? 4%? 5th largest GDP in the world? Third largest contributor?

Sounds entirely reasonable to me.....

For the mathematically challenged, if 28 countries contributed equally, they would each pay about 3.6%. As I say 4% from us seems not excessive.

Is the data correct? I thought the UK would be paying more...:

[Grouse]

RuamRudy, on 22 Feb 2016 - 11:01, said:

SgtRock, on 22 Feb 2016 - 10:53, said:

cumgranosalum, on 22 Feb 2016 - 09:07, said:

cumgranosalum, on 22 Feb 2016 - 09:07, said:

If UK leaves the EU within months Scotland will leave the union. England (maybe Wales) will then have to renegotiate 40 years of laws and treaties to maintain any semblance of trade with europe. People with property in Europe will have to renegotiate both the ownership and their rights of residence. Those with jobs in Europe will have to get new visas.....those who rely on Europe for food and wine will have to wait for taxes and duties to be re-allotted, those with foreign cars will find they all have import duties. the NHS will be completely dismantled all labour laws will be re-written to the advantage of employers and the UK diet will consist of boiled mutton and turnips.

Sturgeon made this claim yesterday.

You might want to check out the comments sections in the Scottish press. She has made a grave error in judgement.

The vast majority of commentators disagree with her claims that Scotland should be a part of the EU in the event of a Brexit.

The SNP has been staunchly supportive of remaining in the EU long before last year's referendum. Since that time, they have seen their membership increase to levels unprecedented even for UK wide parties. It seems that the majority of Scots don't share your views, regardless of what the right wingnuts have to say on the comments sections.

Yes, of course, you have no idea of who they actually are, but they must be rightwing nutters.

Stock answer for those that have no argument to make.

If the SNP had campaigned on an out of UK and out of EU ticket, IMO, it would probably be still negotiating Independence.

Some people have a warped interpretation of Independence, and by no stretch of the imagination can being a member of the EU be construed as being Independent.

You don't seem to hve much grasp of what's happening in Scotland. any independence referendum now would lead to a landslide in favor. Scotland would then negotiate EU membership. This would of course be easier with England outside the EU.

Cameron would probably resign after presiding over such a double disaster (Conservative and Unionists as they were).

This would leave the ultra right in the driving seat. Any election without Scotland would result in a Tory majority.

England's ability to find nations to sign treaties with would be seriously flawed, we'd just have to take what we can get and end up pouring any other money into supporting the US wars out of desperation.

under a right wing govt any minorities would be more militant and radicalised and civil unrest and terrorism would increase.........the only people who make will be those who sell stock and then invest elsewhere....leading to a crash in investment in English industry.......

Yes. I'm inclined to agree.

Sad, but true

[Grouse]

cumgranosalum, on 22 Feb 2016 - 13:53, said:cumgranosalum, on 22 Feb 2016 - 13:53, said:

SgtRock, on 22 Feb 2016 - 11:13, said:SgtRock, on 22 Feb 2016 - 11:13, said:

RuamRudy, on 22 Feb 2016 - 11:01, said:RuamRudy, on 22 Feb 2016 - 11:01, said:RuamRudy, on 22 Feb 2016 - 11:01, said:

The SNP has been staunchly supportive of remaining in the EU long before last year's referendum. Since that time, they have seen their membership increase to levels unprecedented even for UK wide parties. It seems that the majority of Scots don't share your views, regardless of what the right wingnuts have to say on the comments sections.

Yes, of course, you have no idea of who they actually are, but they must be rightwing nutters.

Stock answer for those that have no argument to make.

If the SNP had campaigned on an out of UK and out of EU ticket, IMO, it would probably be still negotiating Independence.

Some people have a warped interpretation of Independence, and by no stretch of the imagination can being a member of the EU be construed as being Independent.

You don't seem to hve much grasp of what's happening in Scotland. any independence referendum now would lead to a landslide in favor. Scotland would then negotiate EU membership. This would of course be easier with England outside the EU.

You do not have a grasp of what the word Independent means. You cannot be Independent and an EU member, it is an oxymoron.

Under the current criteria for EU membership, Scotland would not qualify for EU membership. It would also be blocked by Spain and probably a few others.

But don't let facts get in your way.

Favor ? Epic fail.

Many Scots want independence from Westminster. They would still like to be members of the human race!

Social justice you see? Oh well, never mind

[Grouse]

Boris Johnson more clown than a mayor

makes more money than you though

Is that how you judge a person's contribution to society?

No, just stating a fact, calling someone a clown who has made the use of his talents to make a lot of money and gain a high position in society seems rather strange, unless of course the person calling him a clown can up the stakes.

He is hardly a self made man. Old Etonian, descendent of King George II, lifetime of privilege. I cannot help but wonder if he were born a coal miner's son would he be where he is now.

More of a Richard III !

[sunnyjim5]

Boris by announcing he is supporting the "out " campaign has triggered a fall in the value of the pound

£ v Baht down by 1.58%

£ v $US down by 1.8%

That will make a significant difference to those living on pension or other income derived from the UK

[lungmi]

45 Baht for one Pound will be the result of a Brexit,

[RuamRudy]

But don't let facts get in your way.

Favor ? Epic fail.

Epic fail? Have I stumbled into Facebook by mistake?

[Top man]

cumgranosalum, on 22 Feb 2016 - 09:07, said:

If UK leaves the EU within months Scotland will leave the union. England (maybe Wales) will then have to renegotiate 40 years of laws and treaties to maintain any semblance of trade with europe. People with property in Europe will have to renegotiate both the ownership and their rights of residence. Those with jobs in Europe will have to get new visas.....those who rely on Europe for food and wine will have to wait for taxes and duties to be re-allotted, those with foreign cars will find they all have import duties. the NHS will be completely dismantled all labour laws will be re-written to the advantage of employers and the UK diet will consist of boiled mutton and turnips.

Sure it will.

Just like the sky will fall in and the sun will never rise again.

How one person can write such unsubstantiated crap is unbelievable.

[Top man]

cumgranosalum, on 22 Feb 2016 - 09:07, said:

If UK leaves the EU within months Scotland will leave the union. England (maybe Wales) will then have to renegotiate 40 years of laws and treaties to maintain any semblance of trade with europe. People with property in Europe will have to renegotiate both the ownership and their rights of residence. Those with jobs in Europe will have to get new visas.....those who rely on Europe for food and wine will have to wait for taxes and duties to be re-allotted, those with foreign cars will find they all have import duties. the NHS will be completely dismantled all labour laws will be re-written to the advantage of employers and the UK diet will consist of boiled mutton and turnips.

Sure it will.

Just like the sky will fall in and the sun will never rise again.

How one person can write such unsubstantiated crap is unbelievable.

[Top man]

You're so right sgtrock

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

cumgranosalum, on 22 Feb 2016 - 09:07, said:

If UK leaves the EU within months Scotland will leave the union. England (maybe Wales) will then have to renegotiate 40 years of laws and treaties to maintain any semblance of trade with europe. People with property in Europe will have to renegotiate both the ownership and their rights of residence. Those with jobs in Europe will have to get new visas.....those who rely on Europe for food and wine will have to wait for taxes and duties to be re-allotted, those with foreign cars will find they all have import duties. the NHS will be completely dismantled all labour laws will be re-written to the advantage of employers and the UK diet will consist of boiled mutton and turnips.

Sturgeon made this claim yesterday.

You might want to check out the comments sections in the Scottish press. She has made a grave error in judgement.

The vast majority of commentators disagree with her claims that Scotland should be a part of the EU in the event of a Brexit.

The SNP has been staunchly supportive of remaining in the EU long before last year's referendum. Since that time, they have seen their membership increase to levels unprecedented even for UK wide parties. It seems that the majority of Scots don't share your views, regardless of what the right wingnuts have to say on the comments sections.

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

So be it, and the sooner the better. Scotland can pay back all the extra money they get per head of population, which I believe is something like £400Bn after their share the oil money is deducted. How is their electoral system allowed to provide then with 52 seats, with so few votes.Ukip polled 3 times as many and got 1 seat. They have a parliament of their own, but won't raise taxes in Scotland, and moan about austerity caused by Westminster.

Hadrian was right, England should get a quote to have it rebuilt.

Good on Boris.

I hope he gets leader of the conservatives after Cameron resigns in disgrace.

[RuamRudy]

So be it, and the sooner the better. Scotland can pay back all the extra money they get per head of population, which I believe is something like £400Bn after their share the oil money is deducted. How is their electoral system allowed to provide then with 52 seats, with so few votes.Ukip polled 3 times as many and got 1 seat. They have a parliament of their own, but won't raise taxes in Scotland, and moan about austerity caused by Westminster.

Hadrian was right, England should get a quote to have it rebuilt.

Good on Boris.

I hope he gets leader of the conservatives after Cameron resigns in disgrace.

Well, I must admit, you've got me stumped. Are you telling me that Westminster is giving my countrymen £400billion each? They certainly aren't giving me anything close to that. In fact, I understood that, by 2019, they expect the block grant to be almost £30billion but I also understood that we had to share it amongst all of us. Sounds like someone is telling me porkies. Or maybe you are a little confused?

But don't worry, there is actually one little nugget of accuracy in your text - austerity is a Westminster device, and wholly unnecessary.

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

If UK leaves the EU within months Scotland will leave the union. England (maybe Wales) will then have to renegotiate 40 years of laws and treaties to maintain any semblance of trade with europe. People with property in Europe will have to renegotiate both the ownership and their rights of residence. Those with jobs in Europe will have to get new visas.....those who rely on Europe for food and wine will have to wait for taxes and duties to be re-allotted, those with foreign cars will find they all have import duties. the NHS will be completely dismantled all labour laws will be re-written to the advantage of employers and the UK diet will consist of boiled mutton and turnips.

Sorry, the £400Bn is the Scots share of the UK deficit, after oil money is deducted.

.

[Steely Dan]

Suck it up. According to a recent poll the most popular politician in the Country has just endorsed Brexit.

[MJP]

45 Baht for one Pound will be the result of a Brexit,

Good for rebalancing Blighty's economy, increasing exports and at the same time devaluing the debt and increasing domestic inflation to cover debt.

Looks like a good option to me.

I earn in £ and most of my costs are in Baht (house, three nippers and a large wife who feeds all day), but I'm not complaining about the bigger picture.

Boris is exactly right about the EU. Need to consider where it will be in a decades time, I reckon like the USSR.

[uptheos]

The 16.5 billion we pay Brussels, would create the finest NHS ever, but they won't use it for that and I wonder why?

[SheungWan]

45 Baht for one Pound will be the result of a Brexit,

Good for rebalancing Blighty's economy, increasing exports and at the same time devaluing the debt and increasing domestic inflation to cover debt.

Looks like a good option to me.

I earn in £ and most of my costs are in Baht (house, three nippers and a large wife who feeds all day), but I'm not complaining about the bigger picture.

Boris is exactly right about the EU. Need to consider where it will be in a decades time, I reckon like the USSR.

All the heroes lining up to shoot themselves in the foot for the 'bigger picture'. That's the spirit.

[SheungWan]

Boris Johnson more clown than a mayor

He's not a clown or buffoon at all. He's a very intelligent and concise person. He puts on a persona like this to get people who don't understand him (like yourself - no offence) to drop their guard as they're not taking him seriously.

He's a very naughty boy. Since returning to parliament, Boris has been a damp squib and failing to supplant Osborne as the next Tory leader. Going for the opposition baton to leave the EU a last desperate throw of the dice.

[bkkcanuck8]

If UK leaves the EU within months Scotland will leave the union. England (maybe Wales) will then have to renegotiate 40 years of laws and treaties to maintain any semblance of trade with europe. People with property in Europe will have to renegotiate both the ownership and their rights of residence. Those with jobs in Europe will have to get new visas.....those who rely on Europe for food and wine will have to wait for taxes and duties to be re-allotted, those with foreign cars will find they all have import duties. the NHS will be completely dismantled all labour laws will be re-written to the advantage of employers and the UK diet will consist of boiled mutton and turnips.

Sorry, the £400Bn is the Scots share of the UK deficit, after oil money is deducted.

.

I would actually expect it to be around 123bn (based on 1.53 trillion divided by population).