Building permit issue Phangan

[Phanganguy]

I have recently taken out a lease on land on Phangan with the intention of building a house.

On visiting the municipality planning office to get plans approved and get a building permit... I was told... Can not do.

According to the planning officers there it isnonly possible to give a planning permit to a farang-thai company not an individual farang.

I know this not to be the case in thai law... Farang can not own land but can own their house built on leased land... Does not have to be via company ownership.

Has anyone on Phangan or samui obtained a planning permit as an individual, which planning office was used (I believe there are 3 on phangan and probably more on samui)

Any help with this unexpected glitch appreciated.

Cheers

[Rooo]

Builder organises building permit, that would be the simplest way..

Edited February 26, 2016 by Rooo

[Phanganguy]

Thanks... But the planning officers said... Can not transfer from builder to farang!!! They seem adamant that a farang can not own a house.... I think I need real local examples where this has been done... I dont want to antagonise them by bluntly saying... You are wtong... Loss of face blabla...

[AlQaholic]

I think the problem is there is no legal framework in Thailand where one can own a fixed property (house) and not also own the land it sits on. The house and land comes as one unit and cannot be split. I recommend you follow the guys advice and do the company thing. There may be others in the place who have built houses probably without even having a permit, probably before the govt. got more involved in what is happening there, as it was previously pretty much unregulated and "wild west" there.

If you know the person you are leasing from very well, you may ask him/her to get the permit to build, after all, he/she is the owner of the land but I do not think that the land office cares who is actually paying for the building.

Then there is always that thing with the brown envelope....

Edited February 26, 2016 by AlQaholic

[Phanganguy]

My understanding (samuiforsale and other legalese advice) is that house and land can be separated... Land is governed by land laws.. House by possession laws... Hence can be split... Correct me if Im wrong.. I quote:

When it comes to rent or lease of immovable property in Thailand foreigners have the same rights as Thai nationals. Hire of immovable property (land, house, condominium) for residential purpose is governed by Civil and Commercial Code (sections 537 to 571) and further specified by the Thailand Supreme Court. Foreigners are under Thai law allowed to lease real estate property for terms of up to 30 years.

I know the Lessor well.. And an option is to get the building permit issued in their name... But this then leaves me exposed having a house I dont own... Unless I buy the completed house pay transfer taxes blabla... Even then I wonder if a thai official will come up with a reason why farang can not buy house!!!

[Autonuaq]

I am afraid there is not a straight solution for you as you want to have it.

Because the perception is that you build a house. You are 100% foreigner.

A house is in most cases a fixed property foreigner cannot fully own fixed items and land by law as far as we all understood without special permissions.

In general there is a quorum of 51% Thai /49% Foreigner. when look all condominium, resort, villages are build with this rule.

Thailand want the money and investments but in many in fact it not makes it possible to do it easy and straight.

Personally I not understand the mentioning of the suggestion about the 'brown envelope'. As we all know the 'brown envelope' is a short term solution. A solution that is not future proof as we all have seen in many occasions and in the news on this website too.

Based on what you write the Officer gave you already the solution how to solve it.

You need have to have a quorum of 51% Thai /49% Foreigner.

Your partner and you build the house.

Your partner has a loan from you.

You partner sign the loan document for about the loan with you.

You make a Last Will to give your partner the loan when you die (not forget this one to do important so your partner can proof how it got the money to prevent that people try to get the property, and sure there are some who will try)

Problems like this are solved in most cases.

Then there are a few possible other options. If one of those options is possible need to have more information about the area and situation of course. Although most things are common there are still small things that make every situation is unique..

.

Edited February 26, 2016 by Autonuaq

[BigFun]

I have built over 12 houses in Phangan for clients and have NEVER had a problem with planning issues.

1).who is your 'architect' - on phangan currently there are NONE qualified - only designers.

2). Who registered ghd land lease for you? Maybe they can assist?

3). This is exactly why professionals exist for this kind of thing - most have cultivated relationships with the right guys for years.

Good luck...

[BigFun]

4). where is the land? It affects which department you deal with as someone (you?) pointed out.

[Phanganguy]

Pmd you... Is baan tai but thong sala municipality

[bazza40]

I have a friend who has been waiting for approval from the planning office for two and a half years. Meantime, there are houses popping up around his land ( Thai wife ) like mushrooms. Put simply, he neglected the brown envelope in the initial stages.

[khunPer]

Has anyone on Phangan or samui obtained a planning permit as an individual, which planning office was used (I believe there are 3 on phangan and probably more on samui)

Tessa Ban use to be the office to issue Building Permit.

Yes, I have obtained Building Permission in my farang name on leased land at Samui, from Tessa Ban in Nathon.

The architect in charge of the drawings and calculations applied for me, but – and that may be the important thing missing in your case – I had to supply a document with permission from the owner of the land, that I (my name) was allowed to build a house on the owner’s land. Also, all drawings and other documents had to carry my name. My permission was given 2009, so I cannot say if anything has changed since then.

As user Rooo suggested, let your building constructor (or architect) apply for building permission on your behalf (you’ll need to sign a proxy). Sometimes a VIP or Express service fee may be worth spending – fast and hassle-free – your building constructor (or architect) will know the actual status for that kind of service.

With Building Permission (and drawings) in your name, you will be able to later obtain a Yellow House Book with your name mentioned as something like master-of-the-house, which is the closest you can come to an owners document for a new build, farang owned house on leased lead. The Blue House Book cannot carry alien names, but will be issued for the house when 80 percent of construction is finished. You have to apply for the Blue House Book not later than 12 month after Building Permission has been given (if rules have not changed since 2010).

I wish you good luck with your project...

[khunPer]

I am afraid there is not a straight solution for you as you want to have it.

Because the perception is that you build a house. You are 100% foreigner.

A house is in most cases a fixed property foreigner cannot fully own fixed items and land by law as far as we all understood without special permissions.

In general there is a quorum of 51% Thai /49% Foreigner. when look all condominium, resort, villages are build with this rule.

Thailand want the money and investments but in many in fact it not makes it possible to do it easy and straight.

Personally I not understand the mentioning of the suggestion about the 'brown envelope'. As we all know the 'brown envelope' is a short term solution. A solution that is not future proof as we all have seen in many occasions and in the news on this website too.

Based on what you write the Officer gave you already the solution how to solve it.

You need have to have a quorum of 51% Thai /49% Foreigner.

Your partner and you build the house.

Your partner has a loan from you.

You partner sign the loan document for about the loan with you.

You make a Last Will to give your partner the loan when you die (not forget this one to do important so your partner can proof how it got the money to prevent that people try to get the property, and sure there are some who will try)

Problems like this are solved in most cases.

Then there are a few possible other options. If one of those options is possible need to have more information about the area and situation of course. Although most things are common there are still small things that make every situation is unique..

.

I'm afraid you are wrong, talking about a house, your information is about owing a condo in a foreigners name – an alien can own a house, but not the land under the house (talk from experience).

[Hammock]

Owning a house for farang is quite tricky in this country unless you have a company or register a house on your Thai wife. If long-term rent is not acceptable for you, then a 30 yrs lease could be a solution however even in this case the land owners can come anyday and demand their land back especially after you finish all refurbishement and the owners would like your house design. I hope you have not made any payments to anyone yet.

[Phanganguy]

Hmmm... Some confusion of issues....

I am in the process of obtaining a 30 year lease on the Land.. The lease specifically allows me to build a house... The land office (after many revisions of the lease, countersigned, witnessed, in thai blabla) seem happy with this and should issue the lease in a month or so...

The problem lies with the municipality planning department... Different department completely from the land office.... They are happy to draw up plans for me (paid for of course)... But say that a building permit can not be issued in a farang name.... It is the name on the building permit which shows ownership of a house not a blue or yellow book... This just signifies residency

According to Thai law.. Farang can not own land. Farang can lease land, farang should be able to own a house on leased land (thai civil code)... But not according to the interpretation of the local land officers!!! I asked the planning officers if it was possible for the constructor to obtain building permission... Yes.... And then transfer to me during construction (there is a garuda topped transfer form available from the planning officers)... Answer... No... Can not transfer to farang

In spite of what is fairly clear in thai land law and civil code.... Farang can not own land, but can lease land and own a house built on the Land.... This is NOT the interpretation of my local planning department!!!

Khunper and bigfun are the only persons to date that appears to have direct experience of land lease and build permissions.... Do the majority of farang go down the thai wife route or quasi legal thai limited company route?

Edited February 27, 2016 by Phanganguy

[Gsxrnz]

OP - you appear to have missed the vital points being made by those in the know who have already posted about brown envelopes.

Brown envelopes expedite all/any processes in Thailand when it comes to officialdom. What the law says is virtually irrelevant - what is relevant is the official's willingness to interpret the law (correctly) in your favour. He will need a laxative to encourage him to see things the way you do in the form of you guessed it, a brown envelope (or a manila envelope if you're a Brit).

As Roo and KhunPer have advised, get your constructor or designer to provide the lubricant (brown envelope) to the official to solve your problem. There will be a recognised amount that should be inserted into the envelope and your designer will be able to suss that out discreetly without any embarrassment.

[jvs]

Op,i also responded to your other thread.Don't listen to the people in the office,go higher up the ladder or get a lawyer.A phone call or letter from a well known lawyer can make things change really fast.

I have build two houses in my own name and it took about five minutes to get permission to start building.

Officially it takes thirty days for the permit to pass but they told me if i would stick to the floorplan i could start right away.

[Phanganguy]

Generally I agree with the brown envelope approach... In this case it was still a no can do... The brown envelope being proffered by the Lessor.... A thai government official herself.

Maybe the officers are getting more dilligent recently due to the government crackdowns on graft

I appreciate the comments.... Im not a novice in thailand but have never come across such an apparently Un errrr pesuadable set of officials... 3 separate officers all independently said.... No can do...

Next approach is... Get a thai with links higher up the food chain....

[Lung Mike]

You can legally own a house as a foreigner but not the land. Hire a good Thai architect and let him/her handle the building permit application. Never try to be cheap by doing any government related dealings by yourself. As you noticed that will never work and you will only end up spending more money.