Ignorance about the Third Gender

[Jonathan Fairfield]

LIFESTYLE

Ignorance about the Third Gender

Welcome to “Every Picture Tells a Story”; a weekly post about living in Thailand. Each week we’ll post a picture that illustrates some of the little things those of us fortunate enough to live here hold dear.

Last year I spent some time in the US. The hot news topic of the day was Kaitlin Jenner.

For those that haven’t heard the story; it’s about an American Olympic Gold Medalist named Bruce Jenner. Back when I was a teenager, he was the epitome of American manhood. He was tan and handsome. His wife was gorgeous. Bruce Jenner didn’t just wind a Gold Medal … he won the decathlon; the ultimate test of male athletic prowess. He was on the front of my breakfast cereal box.

Now Bruce says he’s a girl. Apparently his manliness was all a rouse, and he’s making some changes … literally. It is the subject of every other television show. It is the top conversation from coffee shops to cocktail parties.

People are polarized on the subject. Many applaud “her” bravery for coming out. Some are repulsed. Most just don’t understand.

After 15 years in Thailand, I am amused by their ignorance. For a place that calls itself “the land of the free”, they sure are restrictive when it comes to sex and gender. Here in Thailand, a place many in the west call a third world country, they have transcended all those draconian gender rules.

Nobody snickers when you say “lady-boy”. Transsexuals don’t have to hide who they are. You’ll find them in all levels of society working in every career field. you live in Thailand any length of time, you will inevitably interact with a transsexual person.

The difference is simple mathematics. Rather than force the transsexual population into one of two categories, Thais simply make a third gender. Transgender people are free to express themselves and society is richer for it. Some of those “free” countries out there could take some lessons from Thailand.

And that’s the story this week’s picture tells. It was taken at a light and sound show called Mimosa just south of Pattaya. Mimosa is a replica of a European village that features food, shopping and a music and laser light extravaganza for the whole family.

Every night at show-time, visitors gather in the village square to watch a series of performances that feature everything from Thai traditional dance to magicians and clowns. The atmosphere is like a big outdoor cabaret.

There’s singing and dancing and spectacular costumes … there’s a laser light show … and there’s a lot of lady-boys.

I was perched on one of the village square’s balconies sandwiched between a trio of elderly Canadian ladies and a Dutch family of four. When the beautiful lead dancer pictured here appeared on stage, they all swooned with delight, cheering and clapping and taking pictures.

I wondered if any of them knew.

Orlando Barton

Source: http://www.inspirepattaya.com/lifestyle/ignorance-third-gender/

-- Inspire Pattaya 2016-02-27

[maoro2013]

Why do they call it a third 'gender'. Gender is determine by your chromosomes, not through a wish to be something that you're not.

[Suradit69]

Assuming "gender" (usually intended to mean sexual orientation) to be a social or cultural term rather than biological, then numbering genders is pointless since sexual orientation is on a continuum rather than being discrete groupings.

Males do not represent two discrete populations, heterosexual and homosexual. The world is not to be divided into sheep and goats. It is a fundamental of taxonomy that nature rarely deals with discrete categories... The living world is a continuum in each and every one of its aspects. While emphasizing the continuity of the gradations between exclusively heterosexual and exclusively homosexual histories, it has seemed desirable to develop some sort of classification which could be based on the relative amounts of heterosexual and homosexual experience or response in each history ...

[Suradit69]

Why do they call it a third 'gender'. Gender is determine by your chromosomes, not through a wish to be something that you're not.

Assigning this topic to the "Farang Pub - fun, entertainment, etc " forum demonstrates that such issues are considered risible and only intended for laughs.

It's sort of like middle school mentality for "adults." Let the bashing commence.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Suradit69

[ezzra]

The truly ' third gender ' are the shemale, (hermaphrodite ) who possess both man/women gentile while

looking like a full female, unlike the ladyboys who simply want to manipulate their organs to become

male or female, the shemale are mostly born with fully developed male pines while also having a very

pronounced vegina.....

[prakhonchai nick]

The topic title is Ignorance about the Third Gender

I would prefer to remain ignorant!

[gemguy]

Can we all assume the OP likes Transgenders ??

No need to defend anything as the whole issue.... is what it is..... while people will do what they want to do anyhow even if there are loads of critics out there to criticize what they do.

The transgender population here in Thailand is flourishing all the more, so people better get used to it or just learn to tolerate all that is entailed or ignore all that is entailed.

Cheers

[Khon Kaen Dave]

If you read 'Klienfelters syndrome' a literary piece on the 'true transsexual' it gives a good insight to how they are born with chromosome differences.This is evident in the height and build of a true transsexual.They also differ in genitalia,sometimes being born as hermaphrodites,possessing two sets of organs,with one being predominant over the other.Their hirsuteness also differs to the normal chromosome make up of the normal sex of male and female.They also suffer from brittle bone syndrome and a shorter life span than the male/female genders.I was fascinated when i read it.Of course, there is also the mental condition of the normal male who believes himself born in the wrong body,and will strive to live his life as female.Thai men are by nature smaller and slimmer than other nations,such is the Asian make up.It is easier for a male to transsex,if you will,into a female using only 'surface' methods,without having to resort to surgery.This type of 'transsexual' can be very beautiful and sexually alluring,whilst still having the strength of a man,and can lead to problems,as we read here on TV from time to time.Whilst having no problems with Transsexuals( i hate to call them lady boys,they consider this as a slur)and having met and spoke to them,i find that generally they feel that they live in a 'twilight world'where they can ever find true love.many men will make absurd and insulting remarks about them,whilst not having taken the time to try to understand them.I think that to live here you have to try and accept them,they have been here for hundreds of years.Who are we to come here and insult an indigenous creature for its being.

the only other thing i have to say,is that to the uninitiated,who have never seen these people before,and are captivated by them.You must remember that not all "lady boys' are transsexuals.Where as they maybe beautiful and sexy,this is only an illusion,because should you entertain one in private,when she removes her clothes,she becomes a man.

[NeilSA1]

Some people seem to be very familiar with computers, tissue, lotion .... ​

Google is your friend ------

• Third gender - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender

  Third gender or third sex is the concept that some individuals are categorized, either by themselves or by society, as neither man nor woman. It also describes a ...

  • Biology and intersex ·
  • Modern societies ·
  • History ·
  • Art and literature
• The Third Gender - Scientific American
  www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-third-gender

  The Third Gender. Transsexuals are illuminating the biology and psychology of sex--and revealing just how diverse the human species really is

• Third gender - LGBT Info - Wikia
  lgbt.wikia.com/wiki/Third_gender

  The terms third gender and third sex describe individuals who are considered to be neither women nor men, as well as the social category present in those societies ...

​

[Krataiboy]

Why do they call it a third 'gender'. Gender is determine by your chromosomes, not through a wish to be something that you're not.

Sex is not the same as gender, as the story of the US Olympic athlete clearly shows. You can be born a man - with the Y chromosome and male sex organs and yet feel 100 per cent female - and vice versa. The body then becomes a prison from which society should make escape easier, not more difficult.

[csabo]

The truly ' third gender ' are the shemale, (hermaphrodite ) who possess both man/women gentile while

looking like a full female, unlike the ladyboys who simply want to manipulate their organs to become

male or female, the shemale are mostly born with fully developed male pines while also having a very

pronounced vegina.....

"vegina"? Is that a vagina with no meat?

Edited February 28, 2016 by csabo

[yellowboat]

By taking estrogen, they do shorten their lives to achieve femininity. Been told they do not live much past 50 years old.

[Bernard Flint]

Starting to get more impressed with thaivisa again. No mention of ladyboy/shemale bar girls who drug/rob/ farangs/non thais, good to here that many know that not all ladyboys work bar or freelance on the streets.

[smotherb]

The truly ' third gender ' are the shemale, (hermaphrodite ) who possess both man/women gentile while

looking like a full female, unlike the ladyboys who simply want to manipulate their organs to become

male or female, the shemale are mostly born with fully developed male pines while also having a very

pronounced vegina.....

Gentiles with pines and veginas eh? Are you talking of fourth or fifth genders?

[Walter Travolta]

Everyone is born either male or female. TWO GENDERS. End of.

[smotherb]

Assuming "gender" (usually intended to mean sexual orientation) to be a social or cultural term rather than biological, then numbering genders is pointless since sexual orientation is on a continuum rather than being discrete groupings.

Males do not represent two discrete populations, heterosexual and homosexual. The world is not to be divided into sheep and goats. It is a fundamental of taxonomy that nature rarely deals with discrete categories... The living world is a continuum in each and every one of its aspects. While emphasizing the continuity of the gradations between exclusively heterosexual and exclusively homosexual histories, it has seemed desirable to develop some sort of classification which could be based on the relative amounts of heterosexual and homosexual experience or response in each history ...

You’ve given your opinion and quoted the opinion of some uncited source. The unknown source appears confused; it starts discussing sexual orientation--heterosexual and homosexual--then switches to taxonomy—sheep and goats—which are not even gender terms. To further obfuscate its validity, the unknown source says, “ . . . It is a fundamental of taxonomy that nature rarely deals with discrete categories . . . ” Taxonomy is scientific classification, which are discrete categories of scientific identification.

A continuum is any set of elements where there is a third element between any two of them. That means there must be an infinite number of variations to have a third element between any two. Consequently, I doubt sexual orientation is a continuum.

One can be oriented toward the opposite, same, or both sexes. I suppose you could extend that to preferring pre-op or post-op transgenders. However, I see no infinite number of variations unless you consider non-gender related characteristics.

[metisdead]

An offensive post has been removed.

[gandalf12]

There are only TWO genders no matter how much you want to think there is another. As one post here says it is to do with the chromosomes. You are either one or the other but you can not be a different gender to these. If people dont understand the "third gender" it is because it is not natural and there is no third gender

[Suradit69]

The topic title is Ignorance about the Third Gender

I would prefer to remain ignorant!

"I would prefer to remain ignorant!"

A lifelong goal, intentional or not, of many people and not only on this issue. Unfortunately those same people rarely consider ignorance an impediment to expressing their opinions on the subjects they studiously ignore.

In many western democracies this stance is a prerequisite for running for political office or establishing a fringe religion.

[Asheron]

There are like 90 different genders (stupid shiet like "flowergender")... that is if you actually want to believe the people who should be in soft rooms without corners. I just read an article that in Sweden they now have introduced "hen" toilets (newly invented for for the "third" gender, "han" is for male and "hon" is for female) at an university but not even that was good enough for the "should be on strong medication" people as the toilet didn't have any regards for the "non binary" genders.

"Non binary" eh? What next?

[northernphil]

The truly ' third gender ' are the shemale, (hermaphrodite ) who possess both man/women gentile while

looking like a full female, unlike the ladyboys who simply want to manipulate their organs to become

male or female, the shemale are mostly born with fully developed male pines while also having a very

pronounced vegina.....

"vegina"? Is that a vagina with no meat?

Screen Shot 2016-02-28 at 1.28.44 PM.png

And aren't Pines trees ?

[chickenslegs]

... in Thailand, a place many in the west call a third world country, they have transcended all those draconian gender rules.

Nobody snickers when you say “lady-boy”. Transsexuals don’t have to hide who they are. You’ll find them in all levels of society working in every career field. you live in Thailand any length of time, you will inevitably interact with a transsexual person.

I think the author of this article ought to have spoken with a few transgender Thai's first.

[northernphil]

Starting to get more impressed with thaivisa again. No mention of ladyboy/shemale bar girls who drug/rob/ farangs/non thais, good to here that many know that not all ladyboys work bar or freelance on the streets.

Yes , plenty to be seen on television and they don't attack folk with high heels nor to they work on the streets. My best Thai mate is a ladyboy , have known him/her for nearly 2 years and despite his very poor English and my Thai much the same we get on great. , I said he would look better with a pair of noms , he asked me to by him a pair , I said I would buy one this coming birthday and one next year , That tickled him.

[whaleboneman]

The truly ' third gender ' are the shemale, (hermaphrodite ) who possess both man/women gentile while

looking like a full female, unlike the ladyboys who simply want to manipulate their organs to become

male or female, the shemale are mostly born with fully developed male pines while also having a very

pronounced vegina.....

You're just makin' it up aren't you.

[gemguy]

Starting to get more impressed with thaivisa again. No mention of ladyboy/shemale bar girls who drug/rob/ farangs/non thais, good to here that many know that not all ladyboys work bar or freelance on the streets.

Yes , plenty to be seen on television and they don't attack folk with high heels nor to they work on the streets. My best Thai mate is a ladyboy , have known him/her for nearly 2 years and despite his very poor English and my Thai much the same we get on great. , I said he would look better with a pair of noms , he asked me to by him a pair , I said I would buy one this coming birthday and one next year , That tickled him.

Thailand is well known for a number of unusual issues while the relative abundance of ladyboys / shemales is one of them.

Most foreigners will never come in contact with the ladyboys rather just see them on T.V. and Movies and on the Internet maybe see them from afar sometimes.

However if you go to the bar districts then you will see more than enough ladyboys while a good percent of them are very attractive and just as attractive as many of the girls / women.

But what ever you think of them, in the end, they are men dressing and acting like women and trying their best to look feminine while I would surmise most of them really do not feel like they are a women trapped in a mans body rather they are a particular kind of Kinky and they like the erotic aspect of role playing as a female dressed in the image of a sexy looking female.

Cheers

[Social Media]

Why does there have to be a number of genders, why cant people just accept others for who and what they are or choose to be and how they wish to live their life is their choice and not forced on them by convention.

If it isnt imposed on you, who is anyone to judge another, be happy for them that they are living their life, their way, on their terms.

People are people, why should anyone classify them at all.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Black Ops

[Benmart]

Why do they call it a third 'gender'. Gender is determine by your chromosomes, not through a wish to be something that you're not.

Who decides what a chromosome is or what it is called for that matter?

Who determined to call something a "gender"?

Who determined what "up" was, and what was "down"?

Third gender, third gear or third planet from the sun. It matters not to this reader.

Most people that I have met, have wished to be something else, and that's their business.

Live and Let Live.

[Monkeyrobot]

What gender does it say on there ID card . If it's a ladyboy, Man that thinks he is Lady it still says Male on the ID card. No Third gender there.

[Dumbastheycome]

I am reminded of a past colleague who used the " Third gender" when describing school teachers. I never understood exactly why because it was not seemingly based on actual gender apparent.

But for Thailand I have observed that in my opinnion there are two main catagories. There are those that are genotypically confused and so are genuinely a third sex. The others are a confusion of social/ pshycological impression and/or compulsion.

I have no attraction to either but have found that the majority of the first catagory are usually as much as can be are socially functionally normal people despite obvious gender contradiction. I have no experience to say the same about " working" individuals in Pattaya etc .

Similarly the "Tomboys" in Thailand are not often man hating lesbians. I have the increasing impression that the partners of tomboys in Thailand are more likely to be victims of trauma regarding males .

My overall opinion is that provided they do not demand special social status similar to many western countries I have no issues.

If you do not understand my differentiation .....try to organize a "Hetoresexual Parade" in a western country !

[sunnyjim5]

Gonochorism (look it up) does not exist in the human world where there are only males or females defined by an individuals chromosomes.

Occasionally, due to genetic "mistakes", it can be difficult to determine the gender of a baby by simple physical examination at the time of birth.