Retirement in Thailand, Some quetions and Thoughts....

[scoooooby]

Firstly I do apologise if I have started this topic in the wrong forum, but surprisingly I could not find a dedicated Retirement room and thought with many of us Farangs wanting to begin our retirement outside of the cold and expensive western world there would be a chat dedicated area.....please move this thread if it needs to be placed elsewhere...thanks

So..... Recently I turned 50 and with 12+ years of travel to LOS, and a dream to retire as soon as I could, I have reached the threshold for a retirement visa, however unsure I have enough income as yet to make the bold move to Thailand on a permanent basis....yes I have the visa requirements for ££££ in the bank and I would not be severing my ties with the UK (I think this would be crazy at this time) so will have a house in the UK and will look to get £800/£1000 per month return from this as living money......but to be honest I am trying to understand how realistic this is for living (without eroding my savings pot) ....

Well the question I know from you all will be 'that depends on how you want to live' and this is a good question..... I will not be living the butterfly Pattaya life.... I am happily married (to a Thai lady) and we have a fully paid up Thai house in a village outside Korat so no rental to pay..... Obviously the village is cheap living but I have read many threads and know all too well that boredom will eventually set in (Its ok for a few weeks there chilling by my pool with a cool Leo in hand but that's just an escape at the moment from work). So I will need to get out and about (yes we have the essential Hilux also for travel) but of course those 4/6 hour trips to Rayong are never cheap and I am sure I will want to visit so many more places when I have this spare time on my hands.....Also there will be the return trips to the UK to factor in for the family and a list of items such as medical cover, school fees, bills, food etc. that I need to cater for....

Blimey, when I think of all this its scary to understand when I will be able to afford it ha ha..... I do have a private pension and can start to draw on this from 55.....to be honest the state pension will be worth jack <deleted> when I am old enough, so anyone in the UK relying on a state pension will be on the breadline later in life....

So the Dilemma is...do I bite the bullet, move now, and try to survive with the risk of not being happy on a budget, or do I wait another 4/5 years and try to secure a larger savings pot and have the ability to start drawing a pension also ?......but of course remaining in the UK for this time, and not being happy at all !!!

I am so sure so many others have been at this junction in life and would really be interesting to read their thoughts and experiences, and how retiree's enjoy a frugal yet happy life in Thailand....... Please share your comments...... not sure it will clear my thoughts but always good to understand how others have tackled such major directional changes in life.

Cheers to you all from a cold miserable and expensive UK !

[lovelomsak]

I would suggest wait the 4 /5 years. Can never have to much. Never know what the future has to hold.Costs go up things happen that cost more than you think. etc.I left early giving up quite a bit of money every year.That money could come in handy now. Costs have gone up,and exchange has gone down.

I still donot spend what I gave myself to spend yearly,but the savings part is definitely not as much annually. It seems to me the longer a person lives her the more he wants out of retirement. So a frugal start can end in lavish splendor of spending.

So bring way more than you need and watch it unfold.

[CharlieH]

Comes under "Expat life' which is the Pub forum.

MOVED

[scoooooby]

Comes under "Expat life' which is the Pub forum.

MOVED

Mr Mod.... thanks

[scoooooby]

I would suggest wait the 4 /5 years. Can never have to much. Never know what the future has to hold.Costs go up things happen that cost more than you think. etc.I left early giving up quite a bit of money every year.That money could come in handy now. Costs have gone up,and exchange has gone down.

I still donot spend what I gave myself to spend yearly,but the savings part is definitely not as much annually. It seems to me the longer a person lives her the more he wants out of retirement. So a frugal start can end in lavish splendor of spending.

So bring way more than you need and watch it unfold.

I know you are right and in my mind I know I have to bank as much as possible.....its just torture living here, never ever thought I would feel about my own country like this but it seems the old England is just a distant memory and the new England is not a good place, well for us English folk anyway! Everyone I talk too wants to retire outside of the UK whether it be Spain, Greece, France of the far East...... our doors have been too free for EU traffic and our Social Benefit system is not only a joke but has crippled the country......such a bloody shame.....and they think the Europe referendum will change things.....hahaha politicians eh! and we think Thailand has issues.....!

[Sheryl]

Like you I have a fully paid for home in a rural area, and my lifestyle is modest.

It costs me more than twice what you would have to live on. So no, I don't think you are financially in a position yet to retire. Especially as costs of living in Thailand keeps rising.

Be sure to include the cost of health insurance in your budget calculations. As a Thai citizen your wife will be eligible for free health care but you will not An adequate policy -- inpatient only - will cost you about £2000 per year now and the premium will rise by about 7% annually (or by about 35% every 5 years if it is a policy with 5 year age bands). So this is a major expense. And it does not include the cost of outpatient care, though if you use government hospitals that is not too steep.

[lovelomsak]

I would suggest wait the 4 /5 years. Can never have to much. Never know what the future has to hold.Costs go up things happen that cost more than you think. etc.I left early giving up quite a bit of money every year.That money could come in handy now. Costs have gone up,and exchange has gone down.

I still donot spend what I gave myself to spend yearly,but the savings part is definitely not as much annually. It seems to me the longer a person lives her the more he wants out of retirement. So a frugal start can end in lavish splendor of spending.

So bring way more than you need and watch it unfold.

I know you are right and in my mind I know I have to bank as much as possible.....its just torture living here, never ever thought I would feel about my own country like this but it seems the old England is just a distant memory and the new England is not a good place, well for us English folk anyway! Everyone I talk too wants to retire outside of the UK whether it be Spain, Greece, France of the far East...... our doors have been too free for EU traffic and our Social Benefit system is not only a joke but has crippled the country......such a bloody shame.....and they think the Europe referendum will change things.....hahaha politicians eh! and we think Thailand has issues.....!

I can relate strongly to what you are going through. I went through the same in Canada.My country also changed so much I had to leave,and many of the same reasons as yours. That is why I retired early also. But in hind sight should have bit the bullet and remained the last few years. Once you are retired your income stops.Investments can go sideways. House rentals in another country can be problematic. Have your ducks in order before making the plunge.

[slipperylobster]

You are already married to a Thai lady, and your wife has a home here (paid for)....so what else is to know. You seem already briefed on the subject.

Bar hopping and bargirl jumping is not what you are after...and you have free rent. I would only worry about health/auto insurance...and then you are home free.

Retirement here is like anywhere else...if you don't have hobbies or friends, then it can get slow. I like it though. Gardening, eat out and some decent places, go out on the town once a week.....some parties at home....and alot of traveling. Traveling for 4 day cost me 20,000, so we no longer do that very often. (Hotel, meals, gas, shopping).

I know bored people who retired back home, and I think I am better off here...for the money.

You need a minimum of 40,000 baht a month...or you will be disappointed, I think. Your wife may need quite a bit more...for the relatives.

Edited February 29, 2016 by slipperylobster

[CharlieH]

For modest living, the Thai Govt guidline of 65k per month (which is the requirement for an extension based on retirement) is about right in my opinion.

Obviously it depends on your individual lifestyle and that wouldnt include (as sheryl correctly pointed out) Medical insurance.

[steve187]

are you in a position to return and work in the UK for some of the year, only you know how cheaply you could live here, with children, insurances etc, put together a list of possible outgoings on the larger amounts and go from there,

in my mind the sooner the better, if you only have to wait 5 years for financial help , by way of your pension.

What about delaying for one year and saving in the UK, the time could be used in planning.

good luck and i wish you well.

[i claudius]

There is only one piece of advice I can give you, you only live once,so do what makes you happy ,I would hate to be anything but I always lived as if tomorrow may be your last ,for many it is .

[slipperylobster]

For modest living, the Thai Govt guidline of 65k per month (which is the requirement for an extension based on retirement) is about right in my opinion.

Obviously it depends on your individual lifestyle and that wouldnt include (as sheryl correctly pointed out) Medical insurance.

65,000 is correct for the rules.

However...this man owns his house and car. So his expenses would not be as high as for one who did not own a house and car (that was free and clear).

Can definitely get by on 40,000 (forgoing 10,000 car payment and 15,000 rent)

[YeahSiam]

So..... Recently I turned 50 and with 12+ years of travel to LOS, and a dream to retire as soon as I could, I have reached the threshold for a retirement visa, however unsure I have enough income as yet to make the bold move to Thailand on a permanent basis....yes I have the visa requirements for ££££ in the bank and I would not be severing my ties with the UK (I think this would be crazy at this time) so will have a house in the UK and will look to get £800/£1000 per month return from this as living money......but to be honest I am trying to understand how realistic this is for living (without eroding my savings pot) ....

Your dream of early

retirement isn't going

to come true.

Stay home-you can't

afford it yet

[bwpage3]

Not only are the costs rising in Thailand, the entire situation of expats living in Thailand is changing. This current gov't seems hell-bent on making things harder and less welcome.

Boredom in the village is inevitable and something that needs to be well thought out before you find yourself trapped.

Sometimes the weather may be nicer where you want to move but the grass may not be greener.

If you live in a village with no friends or anyone speaking your language, that could get pretty rough.

The whole idea requires a ton of thought because if you base your entire existence on a fixed retirement today and move to Thailand, what happens someday if the costs rise to the point that you have to struggle to meet the rules just to survive in Thailand.

[YeahSiam]

Not only are the costs rising in Thailand, the entire situation of expats living in Thailand is changing. This current gov't seems hell-bent on making things harder and less welcome.

How are they 'making

things harder and less

welcome'? I don't see

any changes to the

criteria for retirement

visas.

[Muzarella]

Depending in your life style and location in Thailand, and specially if you are single and without extra responsibilities, you can live very well here with a total spend of 20.000 THB/month. If married, using a car, paying health insurance, and dating a lot..you may need another 20.000 THB/month.

Anyway..you will find expats, even single, spending 100,000 THB/month and not happy with their lives here. By a 'coincidence" most of them are dating or married with "gold diggers". Spending too much money in Thailand attract bad company.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Muzarella

[Muzarella]

For modest living, the Thai Govt guidline of 65k per month (which is the requirement for an extension based on retirement) is about right in my opinion.

Obviously it depends on your individual lifestyle and that wouldnt include (as sheryl correctly pointed out) Medical insurance.

Interesting is that the guideline for a marriage extension is 40000K/month, even when married life may be more expensive than single life.

But.....65000thb life in Pattaya or Phuket equals to a 30000K life in Issan or North Thailand. If I can spend 65000THB every month I will have a lot more than a modest life in Phayao...even married.

Edited February 29, 2016 by Muzarella

[kannot]

I moved here full time a couple of years ago but had been married for 10 years working for 3 months in the Uk then here for 3 months to see how things panned out. I did that for about 6-7 years and am 52 yrs old now

Im probably pretty different to most here in that my Wife "keeps" me although the extension of stay is for me to support her.

The reason was simple, she earnt way more money than me each month after starting up a business here about 5 years ago so I no longer needed to work.

Boredom could be a big issue, we bought some land and I built two house by myself and I mean with no help and am landscaping at the moment, it gives me plenty to do each day though I do wonder when its all done what ill do??

[cyberfarang]

If you have to depend on an income other then a pension from abroad to exist in Thailand, then forget it.

[kokesaat]

I'm not British.......rather American......lived here just 19 years.

If you don't have good health insurance, you're way too short on income. No matter how good you feel today, tomorrow's another day. Even without health concerns, $1000 (by my figuring), even with a paid up house and truck, leaves precious little for vacations, emergencies....and definitely not enough for a major stay in the hospital.

Finally, I'd consider the worst case scenario for exchange rates. That 49ish baht you're getting for a pound today could change to 47 tomorrow.

[Sheryl]

For modest living, the Thai Govt guidline of 65k per month (which is the requirement for an extension based on retirement) is about right in my opinion.

Obviously it depends on your individual lifestyle and that wouldnt include (as sheryl correctly pointed out) Medical insurance.

65,000 is correct for the rules.

However...this man owns his house and car. So his expenses would not be as high as for one who did not own a house and car (that was free and clear).

Can definitely get by on 40,000 (forgoing 10,000 car payment and 15,000 rent)

Ah but the flip side of no rent is house repairs. Which can be very expensive and unavoidable. Roofs do not last forever and new roofs cost big time. Electrical wiring shorts out and expensive to redo...plumbing issues..etc etc. Periodic replacement of water pump and air conditioners and other major appliances. House repairs here are more frequent than in farangland, due both to the effects of the climate and also frankly lower standard of workmanship. It is not so much cheaper to own your home than to rent. And in OP's case, as he owns a place in the UK he will be renting out, he will also be responsible for repairs there as well. I've rented out properties, the rental income is not pure income. You have to use parts of it to maintain and repair the place, sometimes a lot of it.

That fully paid for car will also need maintanance and repairs, on top of course of fuel and insurance.

I did a budgeting exercise for myself recently trying to figure out if I could afford to retire. Started with the regular monthly expenses but then added in all the things that are occasional but significant (like house repairs, health and auto insurance etc, annual trips back to farangland, one or two short vacations in Thailand or the region each year- etc). The total more than doubled when I put in all those things, and I probably still forgot some.

Came out at about US $25,000 a year and that is with paid for house and car, almost always eating in, and no particular extravagances. $5,000 of that is yearly trip back to farangland, so the just living in Thailand part is maybe US $20,000 ( 58K baht a month). And these are current costs, have to keep in mind inflation, increased medical and dental expenses with one gets older, likewise increased need for household help as one ages.

I run into a lot of cases of elderly expats living on very tight fixed incomes who are no longer able to adequately provide for themselves here and/or unable to afford urgent medical cares/pay their medical bills/pay for either live-in help or moving into a retirement home. I know NancyL does too. Even before it hits crisis stage (which is where i usually encounter it), these folk have been living a hand-to-mouth existence, unable to travel or afford anything beyond the absolute essentials, for many years.

Good that the OP is asking these questions now. Coming here to retire is not the same as coming to live here on a shoestring for a while when you are still young. You don't have much if any options or recourses when the money proves insufficient, you're basically stuck. Even returning to your home country and getting on public assistance can be problematic in many instances.

[thehelmsman]

Enough for solo living but not enough for carefree lifestyle for 2 or more. House upkeep, car ins. and tags, car maint., I'm in the same boat, have house, car, motorbikes, 2 children in Issan. If 35,000bht/mo was enough I would have stopped working long ago. It won't be any fun being tied down to a busget. 60,000bht/mo. would allow you a carefree lifestyle.

[scoooooby]

Thanks for all the input so far.....please keep it flooding in....just popping out to get a lotto ticket....haha

[thrilled]

If your ok living thrifty having to budget your money go ahead and retire now.If you would rather not count your coins with every

Purchase you make then you should wait A few more years.It also depends on how well you like your job.

[Gonsalviz]

I aim for spending 50,000 baht a month. It is not working at this time but I am still trying to get set up. In the next month or 2, I should have a budget of less than 50,000. I have budgeted 60,000. Still break that regularly.

[NativeSon360]

I aim for spending 50,000 baht a month. It is not working at this time but I am still trying to get set up. In the next month or 2, I should have a budget of less than 50,000. I have budgeted 60,000. Still break that regularly.

[berybert]

I retired to Thailand at the age of 52 by 54 I was back in England because I got bored. Having been back in England for less than a year I am now counting the weeks until I move back to Thailand.

Being bored in Thailand is a lot better than working ones nuts off in England.

I am also the same as you in that I will be letting out a house in England which will more than cover my expenses in Thailand. My house is on the out skirts of London and is raising in price between half to a million baht a year. This is an increase you might not have thought of, in 10 years time your house is going to be worth a lot more than it is now, and you wont live forever, so do you want to enjoy your money or leave it to the government to waste.

I worked out that I probably can not spend the money I am worth now over the next 20/30 years plus add a pension or 2 into the mix and there seems very little point in working any longer. If I can find a job in Thailand then all well and good, but getting up at 6am in the cold and wet is something I don't need anymore.

Good luck.

[Gsxrnz]

OP - there is some good and bad advice in this thread. It's up to you to accept or reject it. But no doubt you will understand some of the advice is based on each poster's particular view on life, the universe, and everything.

I won't give you any financial advice. Instead I'll tell you that in the past 24 months, over a dozen of my friends back home have gone to an early grave - most in their very early 50's. All through sudden illnesses. Most went through short periods of palliative care before they died.

Not one of them expressed a wish that they'd spent more time at the office or the factory. Most expressed totally opposite views.

As the old saying goes, life is not a dress rehearsal and it's only a one-act-play. Unlike many, you seem to have your head screwed on and I suspect you will be able to cope with minor financial issues as they arise.

Sometimes a leap of faith is necessary.

[slipperylobster]

OP - there is some good and bad advice in this thread. It's up to you to accept or reject it. But no doubt you will understand some of the advice is based on each poster's particular view on life, the universe, and everything.

I won't give you any financial advice. Instead I'll tell you that in the past 24 months, over a dozen of my friends back home have gone to an early grave - most in their very early 50's. All through sudden illnesses. Most went through short periods of palliative care before they died.

Not one of them expressed a wish that they'd spent more time at the office or the factory. Most expressed totally opposite views.

As the old saying goes, life is not a dress rehearsal and it's only a one-act-play. Unlike many, you seem to have your head screwed on and I suspect you will be able to cope with minor financial issues as they arise.

Sometimes a leap of faith is necessary.

If you can leave your bridges open, go ahead and try it.

Waiting too long is like window shopping.....the opportunity can disappear.

I do recommend Health Insurance, an open return ticket, and leave enough recovery money left in an untouchable account back home.

If You have no house or car payments....utilities and gas will be 5000 baht per month (more if you travel). Groceries 15,000. That leaves you with more than 20,000 for maintenance on car and home, or entertainment/shopping. I never had to pay that out monthly for repairs. We live on 80,000 per month, but I normally save 30,000 and still give the wife 15,000 for funny money. We have a very low rent, but make a 10,000 baht car payment. I have some health insurance. Also, give an allowance of 11,000 baht to my son over in the Philippines.

A major repair (roof, new aircon or water pump/plumbing) might happen once a year and cost 12,000 or less. A car might need new tires once every two years...or battery....but not every month. Leave a bit in the bank for what you know is coming up.

small repairs are inexpensive.

Edited February 29, 2016 by slipperylobster

[chiang mai]

One thousand Pounds a month is 50k baht which is more than enough for two people to live in on in a rural area if they already own a house and car, it's an effective 65k a month or close enough. The caveats of course include lifestyle, health insurance, one offs and flight costs back to the UK etc.