VFS staff told us to change our visa application

[brewsterbudgen]

My (Lao) girlfriend has applied for a UK Marriage Visitor visa and I thought we had all the bases covered. Our plan was to make one trip to the UK in April and give notice to marry (after waiting the statutory 9 days after landing), then return to Thailand, and go back to the UK in August for the marriage ceremony. All the dates had been booked, confirmed and paid for with the UK Registry.

She submitted the application at VFS yesterday but they rejected it as, according to them, a Marriage Visitor visa is Single Entry only and therefore would not cover her for 2 trips. They told us to apply for a General Visitor visa (tourism) for the April trip and then we would have to apply for the Marriage Visitor visa for the August trip.

As our flights are already booked for April, and there was no one else to consult at VFS (we were already speaking with a VFS Manager), I completed a new online application then and there, paid another visa fee, and the General Visitor visa application was accepted.

I made scribbled notes on my Sponsor's letter, and in the online notes, explaining why we were now applying for a General Visitor visa, however all the supporting documentation relates to our marriage which is "not allowed" on a general Visitor visa.

I thought all UK Visitor visas were Multiple Entry?

I have made an official complaint as the UKVI website doesn't state that the Marriage Visitor visa is Single Entry only (unless I missed this).

Edit: If she does travel on a General Visitor visa will we still be able to give notice to marry? We will obviously need the Marriage Visitor visa for the actual ceremony in August.

Edited March 4, 2016 by brewsterbudgen

[beano2274]

only info I found

https://www.gov.uk/marriage-visa/overview

[brewsterbudgen]

only info I found

https://www.gov.uk/marriage-visa/overview

Thanks. I've tried to find and read everything I can and I haven't found anything that states or implies a Marriage Visitor visa is Single Entry only.

The VFS staff were very friendly and helpful but should they be giving out advice like this?

[brewsterbudgen]

I found this. Although not an official site it does suggest that I was right and the VFS staff wrong!

Single-entry visit visas must not be routinely issued to first time family or other visitors.
ECOs may also consider limiting the leave granted in these types of cases by restricting the strength of the visa to less than six months. In these cases ECOs should obtain the authority of the ECM and a brief note must be kept in the notes field of Proviso to explain the course of action and the name of the authorizing ECM.

http://www.visaforuk.com/long_term_multiple_entries.html

[sunnyjim5]

My understanding is that VFS staff are not authorised to provide advise or to reject applications.

I believe you should lodge a complaint.

[Donutz]

I was not sure if I should comment as I know only little about UK visa's but this topic made me errrr....

Afterall, AFAIK:

- VFS are paperpushers. They basically take in the documents, check boxes on a checklist and forward the application. So how can they refuse any application even if you would have messed up any paperwork? The ECO would be to rule on this (ask for more documents, deny the visa for reasons such as wrong type of application, give an other visa type etc.) , certainly not VFS.

- Why make a new appointment and payment if you are already there? Sounds like robbery to me!

Let's wait for 7by7 or other knowledgeable members to give some guidance but to me it sounds like things went awfully wrong and they should have accepted the application, so a complaint and refund should be in order?

[brewsterbudgen]

My understanding is that VFS staff are not authorised to provide advise or to reject applications.

I believe you should lodge a complaint.

I was not sure if I should comment as I know only little about UK visa's but this topic made me errrr....

Afterall, AFAIK:

- VFS are paperpushers. They basically take in the documents, check boxes on a checklist and forward the application. So how can they refuse any application even if you would have messed up any paperwork? The ECO would be to rule on this (ask for more documents, deny the visa for reasons such as wrong type of application, give an other visa type etc.) , certainly not VFS.

- Why make a new appointment and payment if you are already there? Sounds like robbery to me!

Let's wait for 7by7 or other knowledgeable members to give some guidance but to me it sounds like things went awfully wrong and they should have accepted the application, so a complaint and refund should be in order?

Thanks. I have made a complaint as, although I think they thought they were being helpful, they shouldn't be advising on visa types. They didn't force me to complete a new application, but they were adamant that a Marriage Visitor visa would only be a single entry. In retrospect, I wish I'd insisted in submitting the application as it was, but in the noisy and frantic atmosphere of the room and the confident "advice" being proffered, I caved!

I have a friend who used to work as an ECO assistant in Bangkok and he's on the case as well. Hopefully they will be able to tie up the two applications and issue a multiple entry Marriage visa. Unless of course the visa gets denied on other grounds.

[brewsterbudgen]

I just got this reply from UKVI (which doesn't help much!)

Dear,  Thank you for contacting UK Visas and Immigration international enquiryservice. With regards to your query, please note that, although most are, not allvisas are multiple entry.  We strongly recommend not to book prepaid travel and accommodation beforereceiving the visa. For any further details, or should you need to contact us again pleaserefer to our website at https://ukvi-international.faq-help.com/, selectappropriate country, click next and then select “E-Mail form” andcomplete as instructed. We will aim to come back to you within 1 day. Kind regards, UK Visas and Immigration International Enquiry Service

[Tony M]

This sounds like "advice" from VFS to me, and they cannot give advice ( as we all know). It can't really be anything else, can it ?

It also appears to be fatal advice, as an ECO cannot issue a general (Standard) visit visa if you intend to marry. The immigration rules state :

Marriage or civil partnership

V 4.10 The applicant must not intend to marry or form a civil partnership, or to give notice of this, in the UK, except where they have a visit visa endorsed for marriage or civil partnership.

Hopefully, though, the ECO will see that the error is VFS's ( from your explanation), and not yours, and will go ahead with issuing a marriage visit visa. If not, then you have a very good case against VFS, and a new application will be successful.

[brewsterbudgen]

Thanks Tony. Presumably the ECOs can access my original online Marriage Visitor visa application, even though the printed application submitted was for the General Visitor visa? In my complaint I've quoted both GWF numbers.

[Tony M]

Thanks Tony. Presumably the ECOs can access my original online Marriage Visitor visa application, even though the printed application submitted was for the General Visitor visa? In my complaint I've quoted both GWF numbers.

I hope the ECO will use "common sense". And I hope VFS get a rollicking !

[jacksam]

My understanding is that VFS staff are not authorised to provide advise or to reject applications.

I believe you should lodge a complaint.

The good thing about VSF is they do offer advice.They carefully go through the application and point out anything missing. Could be as simple as sponsors not including one copy of something required. They also it seems in this case point out that the visa as applied for was for single entry.

I have trotted along 4 times with Thai gf applicant. Each time I have be required to nip out and photo copy this or that. I regard that as advice.

Edited March 5, 2016 by jacksam

[sometimewoodworker]

Thanks Tony. Presumably the ECOs can access my original online Marriage Visitor visa application, even though the printed application submitted was for the General Visitor visa? In my complaint I've quoted both GWF numbers.

I hope the ECO will use "common sense". And I hope VFS get a rollicking !

Regrettably I do not think that ECO's are issued with, or permitted to use, "common sense"

I sincerely hope that you will be successful in getting the visa but I wouldn't hold my breath.

It looks like a case where the ECO should give an answer you will not like.

[brewsterbudgen]

My understanding is that VFS staff are not authorised to provide advise or to reject applications.

I believe you should lodge a complaint.

The good thing about VSF is they do offer advice.They carefully go through the application and point out anything missing. Could be as simple as sponsors not including one copy of something required. They also it seems in this case point out that the visa as applied for was for single entry.

I have trotted along 4 times with Thai gf applicant. Each time I have be required to nip out and photo copy this or that. I regard that as advice.

Except I had applied for a Marriage Visitor visa, with no reference to it being either single or multiple entry. On the contrary all the information I can find, says that "most" visitor visas are multiple entry. If the advice given to me by VFS is true, then the UKVI website should make it clear that all Marriage Visitor visas are single entry.

[jacksam]

Brew, your correct. Every country is different. UK very different to AU. The au visitor visa is rarely given multiple entry first time application. Good luck with your application

[manfredtillmann]

My understanding is that VFS staff are not authorised to provide advise or to reject applications.

I believe you should lodge a complaint.

The good thing about VSF is they do offer advice.They carefully go through the application and point out anything missing. Could be as simple as sponsors not including one copy of something required. They also it seems in this case point out that the visa as applied for was for single entry.

I have trotted along 4 times with Thai gf applicant. Each time I have be required to nip out and photo copy this or that. I regard that as advice.

NO, they don't. made several applications through vfs khon kaen and who ever processes the application has no clue of what goes on. using a printed check list, asking fellow staff - and every time there is a query back from the embassy, even after the 5th application. vfs kk has been of no help or professional assistance to us.

sorry, just realised i got something wrong about this. the vfs agent in kk is the post office.

Edited March 5, 2016 by manfredtillmann

[steve0367]

Vfs tried to reject our visa application for a partner visa to oz because we were not married or in a defacto relationship. I stood my ground and they made contact with the embassy before accepting our application

[7by7]

With respect to our Australian members, this topic is about the UK visa application centre, who by the way do not have a branch in Khon Kaen. All UK applicants have to submit their applications in Bangkok.

Under the terms of their contract with UKVI, VFS staff are not allowed to give any visa advice.

As it says in their FAQs

What documents do I submit for a visa application?

VFS Global or its staffs are not authorised to advise/suggest the category or comment on the documents and duration of Visa issued.

Maybe their contract with the Australian equivalent does allow them to do so?

Although, hopefully in an attempt to be helpful, the UKVAC staff do at times break this rule and comment on the documents presented; they must forward the application as presented to the entry clearance section if the applicant instructs them to do so.

All UK visit visas are multiple entry unless the ECO has reason to restrict the number of entries; If they do, they must get the approval of their manager first.

From Visit guidance
Version 4.0
08 January 2016

Single entry visit visa – when and how to grant

Entry Clearance Officers must obtain the authority of the Entry Clearance Manager before issuing a single-entry visit visa (except for ADS or PPE visas).

Most visit visas allow the person to enter the UK multiple times during its period of validity except for Permitted Paid Engagements and Approved Destination Scheme.

For other visitors, you must only issue a single-entry visit visa in certain cases, such as:
• children whose visit is sponsored by charities
• in residual doubt cases where the applicant meets the rules but you have a residual doubt and there is nonetheless a clearly established, verifiable and compelling reason to visit the UK (see examples below)......

Short duration visa – when and how to grant

Unless there are grounds for not issuing a multi-entry or long term visit visa, you should issue the visa applied for.

[steve0367]

vfs are only allowed to process paper work not advise or reject for Australian visas, my point was that they overstep their authority regardless of country

[brewsterbudgen]

With respect to our Australian members, this topic is about the UK visa application centre, who by the way do not have a branch in Khon Kaen. All UK applicants have to submit their applications in Bangkok.

Under the terms of their contract with UKVI, VFS staff are not allowed to give any visa advice.

As it says in their FAQs

What documents do I submit for a visa application?

VFS Global or its staffs are not authorised to advise/suggest the category or comment on the documents and duration of Visa issued.

Maybe their contract with the Australian equivalent does allow them to do so?

Although, hopefully in an attempt to be helpful, the UKVAC staff do at times break this rule and comment on the documents presented; they must forward the application as presented to the entry clearance section if the applicant instructs them to do so.

All UK visit visas are multiple entry unless the ECO has reason to restrict the number of entries; If they do, they must get the approval of their manager first.

From Visit guidance

Version 4.0

08 January 2016

Single entry visit visa – when and how to grant

Entry Clearance Officers must obtain the authority of the Entry Clearance Manager before issuing a single-entry visit visa (except for ADS or PPE visas).

Most visit visas allow the person to enter the UK multiple times during its period of validity except for Permitted Paid Engagements and Approved Destination Scheme.

For other visitors, you must only issue a single-entry visit visa in certain cases, such as:

• children whose visit is sponsored by charities

• in residual doubt cases where the applicant meets the rules but you have a residual doubt and there is nonetheless a clearly established, verifiable and compelling reason to visit the UK (see examples below)......

Short duration visa – when and how to grant

Unless there are grounds for not issuing a multi-entry or long term visit visa, you should issue the visa applied for.

I wish I had stood my ground and insisted that they accept the application. While they were definitely trying to be helpful, it is now clear to me that they gave incorrect advice (thanks 7by7) and I have now submitted an application for the wrong type of visa.

Hopefully they will tie up the online application and the one actually submitted, read the supporting documents/paperwork, and use common sense to issue the appropriate visa. I also expect to be refunded!

[sir charles IV]

You're not the first person who didn't do the right thing in the first place then panicked and blamed someone else followed by lodging a complaint etc. and you won't be the last. Lol we comply with the rules and not the other way around.

[brewsterbudgen]

You're not the first person who didn't do the right thing in the first place then panicked and blamed someone else followed by lodging a complaint etc. and you won't be the last. Lol we comply with the rules and not the other way around.

Everything posted on this thread so far, suggests I had done the right thing and it was VFS who were giving wrong advice. I'm not sure what rule you are referring to?

In any case, I expect to find out next week.

[sir charles IV]

You're not the first person who didn't do the right thing in the first place then panicked and blamed someone else followed by lodging a complaint etc. and you won't be the last. Lol we comply with the rules and not the other way around.

Everything posted on this thread so far, suggests I had done the right thing and it was VFS who were giving wrong advice. I'm not sure what rule you are referring to?

In any case, I expect to find out next week.

had you read the conditions/eligibility criteria for Marriage Visitor Visa carefully you would have noticed that it does not have provisions for multiple entry. Unless otherwise stated visitors visas are single entries with specific reasons. In your case she has to stay no more than six months and get married in this period before departing. VFS was right in suggesting that she should get a visitor visa now and apply for the Marriage Visa Visitor when she gets back. They know more about these things than you or I. Speaking to manager or complaining will only make you look arrogant and silly. I'm sure they talk about people like you in a joking manner after you leave their office. For the sake less complication I always get them to process my partners visas. A few dollars spent is worth the hassle you might face later. Live and learn. Edited March 6, 2016 by sir charles IV

[sir charles IV]

No country in the world allows multiple entries for a visitor willy nilly for obvious reasons. You need compelling reasons to secure a multiple entry visa. Now you know!!!!!!

[sometimewoodworker]

No country in the world allows multiple entries for a visitor willy nilly for obvious reasons. You need compelling reasons to secure a multiple entry visa. Now you know!!!!!!

Maybe you should re-read the guidance given to UK ECO's before making incorrect statements. Most UK visas permit multiple entries.

[NanLaew]

No country in the world allows multiple entries for a visitor willy nilly for obvious reasons. You need compelling reasons to secure a multiple entry visa. Now you know!!!!!!

Maybe you should re-read the guidance given to UK ECO's before making incorrect statements. Most UK visas permit multiple entries.

Yes, but sir charles is commenting specifically on the 'willy nilly' category multiple entry visa for "no country in the world."

[brewsterbudgen]

You're not the first person who didn't do the right thing in the first place then panicked and blamed someone else followed by lodging a complaint etc. and you won't be the last. Lol we comply with the rules and not the other way around.

Everything posted on this thread so far, suggests I had done the right thing and it was VFS who were giving wrong advice. I'm not sure what rule you are referring to?

In any case, I expect to find out next week.

had you read the conditions/eligibility criteria for Marriage Visitor Visa carefully you would have noticed that it does not have provisions for multiple entry. Unless otherwise stated visitors visas are single entries with specific reasons. In your case she has to stay no more than six months and get married in this period before departing. VFS was right in suggesting that she should get a visitor visa now and apply for the Marriage Visa Visitor when she gets back. They know more about these things than you or I. Speaking to manager or complaining will only make you look arrogant and silly. I'm sure they talk about people like you in a joking manner after you leave their office. For the sake less complication I always get them to process my partners visas. A few dollars spent is worth the hassle you might face later. Live and learn.

Thanks. Can you provide a link where it states this?

[TCA]

They know more about these things than you or I. Speaking to manager or complaining will only make you look arrogant and silly. I'm sure they talk about people like you in a joking manner after you leave their office. For the sake less complication I always get them to process my partners visas. A few dollars spent is worth the hassle you might face later. Live and learn.

You're either on the wind up or just ignorant of the facts. VFS are paperwork collectors, not immigration officers. I don't know what you mean by "always get them to process my partners visas". VFS collect applications and send to UKVI who process them. Applicants have no choice other than to comply with the process. As for "a few dollars spent", are you saying you pay VFS to check your applications? They make a very rudimentary check for obvious omissions, but that's it. And they do this anyway without payment. They aren't qualified to give immigration advice.

I really sympathise with the OP. My wife submitted a settlement visa application for her daughter last week. Had she listened to the staff at VFS she would have left to get her daughter's Thai I.D card translated into English by a translation service. Firstly, it's not a required document anyway and secondly, it already has English translations on it! Thankfully my wife politely refused, but God knows what else they could've asked for. It puts the applicant in a very awkward position.

Brewsterbudgen, I wish you all the best for a successful outcome.

[pagan1]

B

Having gone through the visa process on several occasions for my wife I must admit my initial reaction was that VFS had provided you with the correct information.

My initial reaction & thought process was

(a) why is he making a visit just to set up the wedding ?

( the marriage visa / fiancé visa is a settlement visa so it makes sense that it is a single entry visa

© the dates specified are close to the 6 months allowed on the fiancé visa and VFS may have been trying to cover the possible timeline delay in issuing the visa. (it appears that visas are now dated from the date provided to VFS unless otherwise requested)

(d) they might be trying to save you some money or make the process easier

HOWEVER I took a look at my wife[s old passport to see the restrictions on her Fiance visa from 2010. It clearly states MULTIPLE entries are allowed.

Unless there has been a poorly circulated change in regulations I would tend to agree that you had all the bases covered and although you have chosen an unconventional way of doing things your request was valid.

Sorry to hear of your problems.

P

[7by7]

With respect, pagan1, Brewsterbudgen has not chosen "an unconventional way of doing things."

Brewsterbudgen and his fiance have no intention of remaining in the UK after the wedding, so a marriage visit visa is the correct one.