Haze starts to cover Phayao despite 60-day burning ban

[vivid]

Worse than yesterday.

I'd have to put out the health advisory warning that the air quality in Chiang Rai is getting hazardous for both 24-hr mean as well as those few hours spikes in the purple region.

This is because once the PM10 concentration figures are converted to PM2.5 concentration figures, the AQI would be much higher.

It looks like the 24-hr mean for PM10 is going to shoot past 300 ug/m3 comfortably in the next hour or so. 24-mean PM2.5 should be over 250 ug/m3.

But seriously like others have said, the figures just give you data to work on. You can clearly see that it's getting real bad. So do take care with your N95 masks and HEPA filtration etc.

[KC 71]

Its 177 here in mae fah luang- ive got a sore throat& chest infection

Im thinking nxt time go cha am or something for 2 months !

[SoilSpoil]

And the silence of the authorities is deafening.

[villagefarang]

I have read many articles on this subject. If you think there is silence perhaps you need to expand your sources of information. This won't be fixed in a day, this year or next year. This kind of thing takes time.

Edited March 23, 2016 by villagefarang

[SoilSpoil]

I have read many articles on this subject. If you think there is silence perhaps you need to expand your sources of information. This won't be fixed in a day, this year or next year. This kind of thing takes time.

Could you mention your sources, also in Thai? Would be greatly appreciated to have some updated info.

Seems to me were heading into an emergency situation. Its very difficult for me to convince my Thai family of the seriousness of the situation.

I remember we evacuated in 2012 when the PM levels reached 400 in Mae Sai and my new born started coughing.

This problem could be fixed in a couple of years if the government would take it serious. Fine every farmer/land owner 1 million baht per rai for lighting fires (no money, straight to jail), ban the sale and consumption of these mountain mushrooms. Send in military personnel and station them in and around the hill tribe villages and corn fields, etc... Just talking wont solve a thing. Fight fire with fire. Greed versus the right to breath. Easy choice.

For those we think this is too harsh, then how do you justify the tens/hundreds of thousands of people that need medical care year in year out for respiratory problems.

[vivid]

Hi soilspoil, good to know that you evacuated your newborn in 2012 when it hit 400 ug/m3. Well it's also 400+ ug/m3 range now and for the past 5 days the peaks were all over 300 ug/m3. 24-hr mean values are not low as well. Your kid should be 4 years old now, still pretty young and barely out of the toddler stage.

I have 2 kids myself. I am not trying to fear-monger, but if you believe me, currerntly there ought to be some protection for your kid in terms of HEPA filtration. Unfortunately there are probably no N95 masks sized for kids esp 4-year olds. (We do have such small kids masks here in Singapore, locally produced as well as 3M 1860S/8110S for maybe 10 year olds). But HEPA filtration is key, as you probably can't make them wear respirator masks for longer periods as there are risks too if worn too long a period, even if they are willing!

Your family's in Chiang Rai? Just hope that it does not deteriorate further....

[SoilSpoil]

Hi soilspoil, good to know that you evacuated your newborn in 2012 when it hit 400 ug/m3. Well it's also 400+ ug/m3 range now and for the past 5 days the peaks were all over 300 ug/m3. 24-hr mean values are not low as well. Your kid should be 4 years old now, still pretty young and barely out of the toddler stage.

I have 2 kids myself. I am not trying to fear-monger, but if you believe me, currerntly there ought to be some protection for your kid in terms of HEPA filtration. Unfortunately there are probably no N95 masks sized for kids esp 4-year olds. (We do have such small kids masks here in Singapore, locally produced as well as 3M 1860S/8110S for maybe 10 year olds). But HEPA filtration is key, as you probably can't make them wear respirator masks for longer periods as there are risks too if worn too long a period, even if they are willing!

Your family's in Chiang Rai? Just hope that it does not deteriorate further....

Good advice, I'll get one asap. We are in Bangkok now and plan to move to our house in Chiang Rai in 2 years. My MIL is too stubborn to leave Chiang Rai during the smog. Typical.

[vivid]

Well, dont really have to leave CR during smog season, but since you and your family will be there for the long run, getting a HEPA air purifier makes sense.

Dont really have to look at expensive brands like Blueair or IQair. Just lookat the airflow (or CADR), a 300m3/hr is minimum for CR haze (get 2 if your finances allow). Make sure your house or room is not "leaky" as the smoke can very easily get in and render the air purifiers nearly useless, of course don't make it 99.99% airtight. Lol.

[SoilSpoil]

Well, dont really have to leave CR during smog season, but since you and your family will be there for the long run, getting a HEPA air purifier makes sense.

Dont really have to look at expensive brands like Blueair or IQair. Just lookat the airflow (or CADR), a 300m3/hr is minimum for CR haze (get 2 if your finances allow). Make sure your house or room is not "leaky" as the smoke can very easily get in and render the air purifiers nearly useless, of course don't make it 99.99% airtight. Lol.

We are planning to make 1 'safe room' where we can all sleep during the smog period with AC and HEPA purifiers. But if the smog gets too much , we'll either go to Europe or rent a house in Chumpon. The smog season runs mostly parallel to the school breaks here. I really hate the smog, we teach our kids not to drink, not to smoke, but at the same time we let them breath in this cancerous smoke. Some people would say, why live up there? But we made this decision a long time ago, bought land, built a nice house etc.

For this year I am extra concerned because of the droughts caused by El Nino. Everything is as dry as a bone and there's a lot of dust circulating as well. Also in Bangkok the air quality is bad at the moment. Happy to say that we're flying to Europe for 3 weeks coming Friday.

[vivid]

We are planning to make 1 'safe room' where we can all sleep during the smog period with AC and HEPA purifiers. But if the smog gets too much , we'll either go to Europe or rent a house in Chumpon. The smog season runs mostly parallel to the school breaks here. I really hate the smog, we teach our kids not to drink, not to smoke, but at the same time we let them breath in this cancerous smoke. Some people would say, why live up there? But we made this decision a long time ago, bought land, built a nice house etc.

For this year I am extra concerned because of the droughts caused by El Nino. Everything is as dry as a bone and there's a lot of dust circulating as well. Also in Bangkok the air quality is bad at the moment. Happy to say that we're flying to Europe for 3 weeks coming Friday.

I just checked BKK's air quality, yeah it's not too good also though bearable.

The safe room idea is good. Just remember to make sure the windows and doors are not leaky, that is really key. Use some foam strips if needed, but don't over-do it.

Well, enjoy your holidays!

[geriatrickid]

Lovely. I am in Chiang Rai next week for a few days,

Yes, I am an idiot.

If you are coming for the panoramic views then, yes, this is not the best time of year but that is not the only reason for one to come to Chiang Rai. I hope you have a great visit.

Many thanks. We are on our way. Never been.

[pastafarian]

Lovely. I am in Chiang Rai next week for a few days,

Yes, I am an idiot.

If you are coming for the panoramic views then, yes, this is not the best time of year but that is not the only reason for one to come to Chiang Rai. I hope you have a great visit.

Many thanks. We are on our way. Never been.

You know that the air quality is currently so bad yet you are still coming?! Strange decision! http://aqicn.org/city/mueang-chiang-rai/

And folks,it isn't smog which is a mixture of smoke and fog, please stop calling it smog as that is something the officials call it to lessen the seriousness of the situation instead of the correct term which is smoke. It is 100% carcinogenic smoke that will cause thousands of people long-term health issues, if you have kids you should be very concerned. And villagefarang, nothing is being done, stop with the nonsense...you are a known Thai apologist yet there are some things that you shouldn't try defending and this is definitely one of them.

[Bardeh]

It is awful out there today, really really bad. It's blotting out the sun for God's sake. I'm honestly not sure the wonderful climate here for the rest of the year is worth enduring this, especially with a three year old. I suppose the solution would be to head south for a few months out of the year, but it's not really feasible with my son starting school soon.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Bardeh

[villagefarang]

Lovely. I am in Chiang Rai next week for a few days,

Yes, I am an idiot.

If you are coming for the panoramic views then, yes, this is not the best time of year but that is not the only reason for one to come to Chiang Rai. I hope you have a great visit.

Many thanks. We are on our way. Never been.

You know that the air quality is currently so bad yet you are still coming?! Strange decision! http://aqicn.org/city/mueang-chiang-rai/

And folks,it isn't smog which is a mixture of smoke and fog, please stop calling it smog as that is something the officials call it to lessen the seriousness of the situation instead of the correct term which is smoke. It is 100% carcinogenic smoke that will cause thousands of people long-term health issues, if you have kids you should be very concerned. And villagefarang, nothing is being done, stop with the nonsense...you are a known Thai apologist yet there are some things that you shouldn't try defending and this is definitely one of them.

I can’t really see how your attitude makes the air any cleaner. Yes, the air quality is awful today and probably won’t get any better until the first big rain. I just don’t agree with the simpletons who think this will all go away with threats of punitive action. There isn’t enough prison space to lockup everyone who burns. Who is going to turn in their grandparents, parents, relatives and neighbors for burning?

You simply can’t change generations of behavior in one day and yelling or insulting people doesn’t help either. I have seen some improvement in our village over time but that has had no effect on the quality of our air because the problem is much bigger than one community. Feel free to rant if it makes you feel better but it won’t change anything.

Some people are such bullies and their answer to everything is punishment or violence. If you actually lived amongst these people you want to punish and understood their plight in life or saw the incredible amount of biomass which needs to be dealt with, you might be more interested in a solution which is less punitive.

This is a tropical climate and things grow like crazy pretty much all year long. We are not talking about little city gardens tended by hobbyists. We are talking millions of rai under cultivation and the encroaching wild vegetation.

Edited March 24, 2016 by villagefarang

[VincentRJ]

I have read many articles on this subject. If you think there is silence perhaps you need to expand your sources of information. This won't be fixed in a day, this year or next year. This kind of thing takes time.

This problem could be fixed in a couple of years if the government would take it serious. Fine every farmer/land owner 1 million baht per rai for lighting fires (no money, straight to jail), ban the sale and consumption of these mountain mushrooms. Send in military personnel and station them in and around the hill tribe villages and corn fields, etc... Just talking wont solve a thing. Fight fire with fire. Greed versus the right to breath. Easy choice.

For those we think this is too harsh, then how do you justify the tens/hundreds of thousands of people that need medical care year in year out for respiratory problems.

Harsh penalties by themselves might have political repercussions if it is felt by the poor farmers who are struggling in the best way they know to make a subsistence living, that they are being discriminated against.

I believe the reason why Shinawatra Thaksin was so popular amongst the farming community, when he was in power, is because of the programs he launched to reduce poverty and help small, rural communities.

As I understand, the current practice of annual burn-off is considered to be the most efficient method of getting rid of unwanted biomass, whether crop residue or trees and foliage.

Alternative methods include the extra labour of gathering the biomass material, transporting it to a biochar kiln, or to a biomass shredder, or to a biomass buyer, or buying one's own biochar kiln or shredder.

Before fining, and/or jailing the poor farmers and hill-tribe people, such alternative methods have to be made readily available at an affordable cost that makes economic sense to the subsistence farmers.

Perhaps the government could set up a number of centres in all regions where annual burn-off takes place. Such centres could buy all types of biomass from local farmers in the surrounding area and turn it into biochar, or simply shred it for compost.

For those communities which are particularly isolated, perhaps the government could provide small biochar kilns for free and teach the locals how to use them. That might be a cheaper process than constantly monitoring communities, arresting people who engage in burn-off activity, spending many police hours determining who was actually responsible for the burn-off, and much expense in court procedures prosecuting such people, and further expense keeping such people in jail because they can't afford the fines.

A solution is needed which actually raises the living standards of those who find it advantageous to engage in burn-off practices. I've got other ideas for a solution, but those involve the rebel Buddhist sect, Santi Asoke. Are there any Santi Asoke communities near Chiang Rai, Chiang Mai, Phayao, or Mae Hong Son? The internet is not providing any definite answers.

[Bardeh]

Exactly, VincentRJ. Threats of punitive action aren't going to solve this problem - it's too widespread, and the people doing the burning are poor and just trying to make a living as best they can. It's sad that the Government's response seems to boil down to saying "burning is banned, don't do it" without actually enforcing the ban, or providing any workable alternative whatsoever. Until they do, the problem is never going to go away.

[SoilSpoil]

Exactly, VincentRJ. Threats of punitive action aren't going to solve this problem - it's too widespread, and the people doing the burning are poor and just trying to make a living as best they can. It's sad that the Government's response seems to boil down to saying "burning is banned, don't do it" without actually enforcing the ban, or providing any workable alternative whatsoever. Until they do, the problem is never going to go away.

The smoke levels we see the last couple of years have nothing to do with the traditional slash and burn anymore. This is burning on industrial scale, and a lot of the fields being cleared are used for animal feed. How pathetic is that?

Being poor is no reason and does not justify polluting the air we breath in this day of age. Neither does stealing, thieving and whatever shenanigan.

The problem will only go away the moment people will be locked up. Just simple law enforcement.

[geriatrickid]

Lovely. I am in Chiang Rai next week for a few days,

Yes, I am an idiot.

If you are coming for the panoramic views then, yes, this is not the best time of year but that is not the only reason for one to come to Chiang Rai. I hope you have a great visit.

Many thanks. We are on our way. Never been.

You know that the air quality is currently so bad yet you are still coming?! Strange decision! http://aqicn.org/city/mueang-chiang-rai/

And folks,it isn't smog which is a mixture of smoke and fog, please stop calling it smog as that is something the officials call it to lessen the seriousness of the situation instead of the correct term which is smoke. It is 100% carcinogenic smoke that will cause thousands of people long-term health issues, if you have kids you should be very concerned. And villagefarang, nothing is being done, stop with the nonsense...you are a known Thai apologist yet there are some things that you shouldn't try defending and this is definitely one of them.

Absolutely right in criticizing me. I will be evacuating the 27th at the latest Landing at the airport today was unbelievable. Almost no visibility and you could smell the cinders. Now in Chiang Rai, the air is thick. I walked over to that joke of a temporary busstation to see if I could get a ticket to Chiang Mai asap, I give credit to the buses for turning off the bus engines. I haven't experienced anything like this before, and it's not being treated as the public health crisis that it is. The government isn't being honest on how dangerous, deadly and damaging the air quality is. There needs to be immediate action now, even if it means using live fire on the people setting the fires. Yes, live fire. Would you let an arsonist burn your house down or poison you? The army has all sorts of helicopters, personnel and vehicles at its disposal. It needs to deploys and stop this now. The people setting the fires know what they are doing is wrong and they have been told to stop. They don't give a sh*t, because they know they can do it. Shoot a few of them in the fields, force them to experience the damage, confiscate their lands etc. and they'll get the message. It's war. This could be stopped in a few days with some leadership. It's disgusting. If the Thais don't care and the government doesn't care, then screw them. it's not worth getting aggravated about. Foreigners should just leave and let these people enjoy the death spiral.

[villagefarang]

Wow, absolutely amazing! I think we may have hit an all time low.

[harrry]

I must agree this is the least reasoned of geriatrickid's posts that I have seen. It is also the only one I even agree with him slightly about though. No one is recognising the problem that this causes. AQIs of 279 are a major community health hazard and little recognition is being taken of this.

The only action I have seen is the approval without enviromental assesment of a waste burning electric power station in chiangrai....it can only make this worse.

we do need investment in mulcing type machinery but we can also force......and I mean forrce people to plow in their waste which is more labour but benificial to growth.

I think the time has done to jail a few people as eamples. The message at the moment is that it does not matter...it does and it is the Thai people of the North that will suffer the most. They cannot afford the airpurifyers I am forced to use and the electricity to go with it. I bought one for my Mother in Law today and the difference in her face after one hour in the room with it on was amazing.

It is serious village farang and it is a thai problem affecting thai people the most.

Edited March 24, 2016 by harrry

[SoilSpoil]

Wow, absolutely amazing! I think we may have hit an all time low.

We just heard that doctors around Mae Sai and Chiang Rai are advising people to evacuate their children.

We have already offered a couple of families to stay with us in Bangkok.

I think you're just in denial on how serious this problem is. Or is it ignorance? Shame on you sir!!!

Edited March 24, 2016 by SoilSpoil

[villagefarang]

This is the view at our place today. That shadow barely visible in the distance was not visible earlier in the day and the one right behind it has been gone for days. No one is saying it is OK but to suggest you kill people is ridiculous. There has been no local burning lately but things continue to get worse. Some may think you can solve the twin problems of global warming and over population at one go but what are you going to do about the neighbors and who is going to grow the food if you shoot the farmers? I agree, this is a Thai and regional problem but I am not Thai and no Thai has ever asked for my opinion. I hope someone can come up with an affordable solution which does not penalize the poorest members of society but if Thais are not ready to change, I am not going to suggest we start shooting our neighbors. Until things change we are all responsible for our own health. I am simply being pragmatic and giving my opinion as someone who lives here year round and does not escape when things get bad.

[SoilSpoil]

This is the view at our place today. That shadow barely visible in the distance was not visible earlier in the day and the one right behind it has been gone for days. No one is saying it is OK but to suggest you kill people is ridiculous. There has been no local burning lately but things continue to get worse. Some may think you can solve the twin problems of global warming and over population at one go but what are you going to do about the neighbors and who is going to grow the food if you shoot the farmers? I agree, this is a Thai and regional problem but I am not Thai and no Thai has ever asked for my opinion. I hope someone can come up with an affordable solution which does not penalize the poorest members of society but if Thais are not ready to change, I am not going to suggest we start shooting our neighbors. Until things change we are all responsible for our own health. I am simply being pragmatic and giving my opinion as someone who lives here year round and does not escape when things get bad.

To me I feel you sound as an apologist.

[villagefarang]

This is the view at our place today. That shadow barely visible in the distance was not visible earlier in the day and the one right behind it has been gone for days. No one is saying it is OK but to suggest you kill people is ridiculous. There has been no local burning lately but things continue to get worse. Some may think you can solve the twin problems of global warming and over population at one go but what are you going to do about the neighbors and who is going to grow the food if you shoot the farmers? I agree, this is a Thai and regional problem but I am not Thai and no Thai has ever asked for my opinion. I hope someone can come up with an affordable solution which does not penalize the poorest members of society but if Thais are not ready to change, I am not going to suggest we start shooting our neighbors. Until things change we are all responsible for our own health. I am simply being pragmatic and giving my opinion as someone who lives here year round and does not escape when things get bad.

To me I feel you sound as an apologist.

I am far too polite to say what some of you guys sound like.

[harrry]

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/03/150319193122.htm

http://news.thaivisa.com/chiang-mai/risk-of-a-calamity-if-north-haze-not-tackled-urgently/54692/

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=ADA387131

from the last document true it is not thailand but the same problem

quote

Table 4 shows that for the entire population, deaths due to non-traumatic causes are 21% higher after a high pollution day and this effect is statistically significant at the ten-percent level. Mortality due to non-traumatic causes is the best overall measure to focus on because the effects of accidents and injuries (which together comprise traumatic mortality) could reasonably be positively or negatively associated with the smoke haze. Substantively, the most important pattern in the table is the concentrated mortality effect on people aged 65-74. On the day after a high air pollution episode, all-cause mortality increases by 57% and deaths due to non-traumatic causes increase by 72%. Deaths due to non-traumatic causes other than cardiovascular and respiratory factors are also significantly higher, but these effects are somewhat difficult to interpret given the problems with cause of death coding. Finally, high air pollution days are consistently associated with increased mortality for those aged 75 and over, but these effects are relatively modest and are statistically insignificant.

Visibility

[SoilSpoil]

Well whatever, tomorrow will be the 3rd 'evacuation' in 4 years. Europe it is, kids are excited and bags are packed. Shame to miss Songkran again thanks to the criminal farmers in SEA.

Edited March 24, 2016 by SoilSpoil

[villagefarang]

Some of the hills they farm are so steep they are barely walkable and there is no way to get heavy machinery in there, even if they could afford to hire the equipment. Good luck trying to catch someone in the act or finding someone to shoot or vent your rage on.

[harrry]

will get in those high places........

just call it an early Sonkram

Edited March 24, 2016 by harrry

[SoilSpoil]

Some of the hills they farm are so steep they are barely walkable and there is no way to get heavy machinery in there, even if they could afford to hire the equipment. Good luck trying to catch someone in the act or finding someone to shoot or vent your rage on.

And yet another excuse for those poor farmers who are threatening the health of the people in the North. The hills are hardly walk-able because they should be covered with trees and forests and not corn. Trees can hold water and prevent a deadly run off that can and has flooded big parts of the country.

Double crime by these 'poor' farmers: responsible for cancerous smoke and flooding.

But keep playing the 'they are poor' trump card.

Edited March 25, 2016 by SoilSpoil

[villagefarang]

What a difference a day makes. We had ten minutes of rain last night around 4 am and today there is a strong wind from the North. A good sailing breeze like you might get on the windward coast of Hawaii. Anyway there is much better visibility today.

Before:

After:

Edited March 25, 2016 by villagefarang