Uninsured foreigners burdens Thai public hospitals

[Sheryl]

Real tourists who intend to stay here for up to 2-3 months should not be allowed to travel without an insurance .

A simple check could be done at the airport , no insurance and you're not allowed to enter the plane.

For the rest of us living here without insurance, stupidity comes first in my mind.

You say that but my reserve fund is almost 5 million baht currently and it's off my spending radar, a combination of avoided premiums and investment returns, I can get a lot of sick treated for 5 mill.!

Indeed you can, even the worst case scenario will not exceed this in cost. But once it has been spent, it is gone. Can you replenish this, or do you have another fall back plan after that emergency fund is exhausted?

[SOTIRIOS]

...they better have a closer look..

....but good luck on that.....

[Patanawet]

Most of these hospitals are grossly expensive as all of them love to overcharge.

Really?

Please do provide examples. Do you have access to 'all' and 'most' hospitals accounting systems?

Edited March 7, 2016 by Patanawet

[chiang mai]

Real tourists who intend to stay here for up to 2-3 months should not be allowed to travel without an insurance .

A simple check could be done at the airport , no insurance and you're not allowed to enter the plane.

For the rest of us living here without insurance, stupidity comes first in my mind.

You say that but my reserve fund is almost 5 million baht currently and it's off my spending radar, a combination of avoided premiums and investment returns, I can get a lot of sick treated for 5 mill.!

Indeed you can, even the worst case scenario will not exceed this in cost. But once it has been spent, it is gone. Can you replenish this, or do you have another fall back plan after that emergency fund is exhausted?

Yes I can, the 5 mill. is money that is ring fenced, after that's gone I'm down to spending my money, my savings and my income, after that's exhausted I'm going to fly back to the UK and very lamely attempt to hold up a bank and spend my final years in Parkhurst, three squares a day, free medical for life and a nice view of the Solent.

[starchild5]

Most of these hospitals are grossly expensive as all of them love to overcharge.

Another Farang Logic here

...Don't make excuses....

Many farangs are stingy and refuse to buy a decent health insurance.

[alfieconn]

Real tourists who intend to stay here for up to 2-3 months should not be allowed to travel without an insurance .

A simple check could be done at the airport , no insurance and you're not allowed to enter the plane.

For the rest of us living here without insurance, stupidity comes first in my mind.

You say that but my reserve fund is almost 5 million baht currently and it's off my spending radar, a combination of avoided premiums and investment returns, I can get a lot of sick treated for 5 mill.!

Well 5m wouldn't cover 2 or 3 major events

I'll try to keep it down to one then!

More seriously, having now seen the internal workings of the Provincial Hospital here I would be quite happy to put myself in their hands rather than in a very expensive private hospital that has marble walls and fountains in the lobby so yes, 5 million may actually cover more than one significant episode. And actually, I could afford to have two major events at private hospitals before my self insured reserve approach became uneconomical compared to traditional medical insurance, simply, I would end up paying an amount that is equal to the premiums I would have paid anyway.

So 2 major events at 4m baht each comes to less than 5m

[starchild5]

Most of these hospitals are grossly expensive as all of them love to overcharge.

Really?

Please do provide examples. Do you have access to 'all' and 'most' hospitals accounting systems?

No He doesn't have anything...Just making stuff up from you know where

[wabothai]

All depends on who or what caused the foreigners to be in the hospital in the first place.

Possibly caused by uninsured thai traffic violators or attacks by lady boys who take off their shoes? Or just plain mass attack from drunk boys hating farang?

Please let us know.

[razer]

1. If a tourist ends up at the hospital as a result of an assault by a Thai or vehicle accident the fault of a Thai ... the government should take responsibility since Thais don't carry insurance.

2. The Thai government could enter an agreement with foreign governments that provide national health coverage and recover their costs.

Don't just cry about it ... do something. Make policy.

[Sheryl]

I have been in public hospitals mostly up country due to lack of private I was never charged more than 7000 THB and that bill was for a shit load of tests and 2 night stay I paid and left too easy. Firstly if you can afford to be in holidaying in Thailand you can afford a bill of less than 10,000THB & secondly how do you leave the hospital with out paying....those who never paid send there names to emigration ban them or wait till they come back and hit them up giving the rest of us a bad name.

Bills in government hospitals can exceed 1 million baht and often do. A 2 day stay and some tests bears no relation to what occurs after say a catastrophic accident resulting in major head trauma, fractured pelvis etc etc - several neurosurgeries, other surgeries, long stays in ICU.

Even elective surgery if complicated enough and requiring implantation of prosthetic devises (stents; titanium rods etc) can run several hundred thousand baht at a government hospital. If you google the innumerable internet campaigns that have been launched to raise money for farang unable to pay heir hospital bills in Thailand you will see what sort of sums have been involved. No 10,00 baht, not even 100,00 baht. much more.

BUT - since this happens to only a small minority of people,and tourists in general are a healthy bunch to begin with, through risk sharing, everyone could get full insurance cover very affordably if a system for it were put in place. The larger question is how efficient would the govt prove to be at managing such a fund if established, and how logistically the collection of the fees would be managed in cases of visa exempt entry.

[sunnyjim5]

... Researched possible cover & all refused to insure after 65.

Plus, if had any prior serious illness, i.e. heart, cancer, irrespective of time or no ongoing problem, you won't be covered for any illness slightly related to the original illness...

You did not research very thoroughly, or perhaps limited yourself to Thai companies. A number of international companies will insure well past 65, some even at age 100.

Statement about pre-existing is also not true of all companies. Many will cover in full if the condition has been stable for several years. others will insure for just "acute exacerbations" of pre-exisitng conditions. And often exclusions will be dropped if no related claims in the first few years.

As for what is considered related to a pre-existing condition, that varies with the underwriter and company. In my experience European based insurers are quite reasonable. Someone with simple hypertension, for example, will not have heart conditions or stroke excluded, and even direct complications of the hypertension will not be excluded if it has well controlled for say 2 years prior to getting the policy. But it does depend on the company.

The services of a broker in navigating all this are very helpful.

I doubt there are many companies who will offer new health insurance to those well past the age of sixty five who have pre- existing condition without charging a price many would not be able to afford. What often happens is that people are sold policies which are so restricted by exclusions,limits, excesses and co-pays that the policy for all practical purposes is useless.

[Alan Jazeera]

Most of these hospitals are grossly expensive as all of them love to overcharge.

Here we go, it's not the foreigner's fault for being a scumbag defaulter it's the Thailand health system?

Read the article. A lot of the money is drunken foreigners ( at an age when they should know better ) getting into trouble and their insurance refusing to cover them.

From my own perspective, even in the UK if someone presented to the hospital drunk and suffering an ailment caused by their inebriety, I'd charge them the real cost of the treatment plus a surcharge. Why shouldn't Thailand treat such morons the same

[wabothai]

How about 1000's of Thai nationals getting free or almost free health care in western Europe.

And the trillions of baht the foreigners bring into Thailand.

Please stop complaining.

[evadgib]

I see number things that are needed.

1) A fair pricing system employed by the hospitals (and overseen by an independent governing body).

2) An insistence that all foreigners have Medical Insurance before entering Thailand.

3) Fair insurance that covers the elderly with fair premiums.

One further point:

The complaints are that foreigners are burdening the health care system, however, there are many cultural aspects which also burden the healthcare system here. i.e. drinking excessively, road safety (seatbelts, motorcycle helmets, education), poor quality street foods, pesticides on veg etc etc..

Addressing some of the issues may in the long term reduce the overall burden on the healthcare system by a far greater degree than that caused by foreigners.

another further point to add to the above.

all the serious injuries caused every day by uninsured thai drivers.

...& billing based on nature of injury instead of ethnicity of patient.

[Sheryl]

You're over 65 and it's a first time policy. No underwriter wants this business, that's why it's so expensive. You're lucky to get a quote in the first place.

No, it is so expensive because he opted for the most expensive policy covering everything included OPD, which is unnecessary, and did not opt for even a minimal deductible or copay.

Either he did not understand the options and much about how insurance works, or was wanting it to come out ridiculously high so as to reinforce a preconceived belief and justify remaining uninsured.

[Caspersfriend]

How many times has this old chestnut been roasted? Getting medical insurance is perfectly possible (ask Sheryl) even for 90-year-olds - see threads I referenced above.

www.CignaGlobal.com

Charging 30/40/50 baht per head at the airport is ridiculous since some people only stay a week and others 3 months or a lot more. Asking already hard-pressed immigration offices to check incomers medical insurance is equally ridiculous. Check against what database, format, standards? It is actually CHEAPER for Thailand to pay the bill in the cases where the farang can't/won't pay,,,,,

I have just got an online quote from Cigna.

Their cheapest rate plan, Silver, comes to £341.01 per month or a little over 17,000 thb per month or 204.606 thb per year using 50thb/£1 as an exchange rate.

The Gold plan is £426,27 or 21,310 thb per month and 255,760 thb per year.

The Platinum plan is £532.83 or 26,640 thb pcm and 319,700 thb per year.

Dunno what happened to you -- I'm 69 and my quote was...

1 monthly payment of £ 95.48 then 11 monthly payments of £ 95.51 inc tax

You might need to take another look at that: My quote is similar to billd766, ranging from 289 > 452 Gbp per month and I am a bit younger than you. If I accept a deductable of 6650 GBP [ ] silver comes down to 124 GBP

The silver doesn't include maternity but I can work around that by never having a sex change; which also would probably not come under the cover!

[cumgranosalum]

Hospitals all over the world give health care to foreigners and don't get paid for it.......it is part of their Hippocratic oath to treat first and worry about getting paid later, but Thailand is deciding to be different....they want to put money first, why is that no surprise...it's not as if the health care here is any good in the first place......

[jpinx]

Real tourists who intend to stay here for up to 2-3 months should not be allowed to travel without an insurance .

A simple check could be done at the airport , no insurance and you're not allowed to enter the plane.

For the rest of us living here without insurance, stupidity comes first in my mind.

You say that but my reserve fund is almost 5 million baht currently and it's off my spending radar, a combination of avoided premiums and investment returns, I can get a lot of sick treated for 5 mill.!

Indeed you can, even the worst case scenario will not exceed this in cost. But once it has been spent, it is gone. Can you replenish this, or do you have another fall back plan after that emergency fund is exhausted?

Yes I can, the 5 mill. is money that is ring fenced, after that's gone I'm down to spending my money, my savings and my income, after that's exhausted I'm going to fly back to the UK and very lamely attempt to hold up a bank and spend my final years in Parkhurst, three squares a day, free medical for life and a nice view of the Solent.

Love the logic! made me laugh

Here's the thing -- you have a decent enough "reserve" and you also have income, so why not release the reserve, pay the premiums and have money for enjoying life? No need to end up viewing the Solent through bars.

[jpinx]

How many times has this old chestnut been roasted? Getting medical insurance is perfectly possible (ask Sheryl) even for 90-year-olds - see threads I referenced above.

www.CignaGlobal.com

Charging 30/40/50 baht per head at the airport is ridiculous since some people only stay a week and others 3 months or a lot more. Asking already hard-pressed immigration offices to check incomers medical insurance is equally ridiculous. Check against what database, format, standards? It is actually CHEAPER for Thailand to pay the bill in the cases where the farang can't/won't pay,,,,,

I have just got an online quote from Cigna.

Their cheapest rate plan, Silver, comes to £341.01 per month or a little over 17,000 thb per month or 204.606 thb per year using 50thb/£1 as an exchange rate.

The Gold plan is £426,27 or 21,310 thb per month and 255,760 thb per year.

The Platinum plan is £532.83 or 26,640 thb pcm and 319,700 thb per year.

Dunno what happened to you -- I'm 69 and my quote was...

1 monthly payment of £ 95.48 then 11 monthly payments of £ 95.51 inc tax

You might need to take another look at that: My quote is similar to billd766, ranging from 289 > 452 Gbp per month and I am a bit younger than you. If I accept a deductable of 6650 GBP [ ] silver comes down to 124 GBP

The silver doesn't include maternity but I can work around that by never having a sex change; which also would probably not come under the cover!

Go for the maximum deductible and shared payments -- stop trying to get something for nothing,,,,

[chiang mai]

You say that but my reserve fund is almost 5 million baht currently and it's off my spending radar, a combination of avoided premiums and investment returns, I can get a lot of sick treated for 5 mill.!

Well 5m wouldn't cover 2 or 3 major events

I'll try to keep it down to one then!

More seriously, having now seen the internal workings of the Provincial Hospital here I would be quite happy to put myself in their hands rather than in a very expensive private hospital that has marble walls and fountains in the lobby so yes, 5 million may actually cover more than one significant episode. And actually, I could afford to have two major events at private hospitals before my self insured reserve approach became uneconomical compared to traditional medical insurance, simply, I would end up paying an amount that is equal to the premiums I would have paid anyway.

So 2 major events at 4m baht each comes to less than 5m

Yes, using the Provincial Hospital Alfred, not the expensive private ones, what costs 5 million in a private hospital costs substantially less in a government hospital, potentially only a quarter as Sheryl described earlier. Are you with it yet!

[chiang mai]

You say that but my reserve fund is almost 5 million baht currently and it's off my spending radar, a combination of avoided premiums and investment returns, I can get a lot of sick treated for 5 mill.!

Indeed you can, even the worst case scenario will not exceed this in cost. But once it has been spent, it is gone. Can you replenish this, or do you have another fall back plan after that emergency fund is exhausted?

Yes I can, the 5 mill. is money that is ring fenced, after that's gone I'm down to spending my money, my savings and my income, after that's exhausted I'm going to fly back to the UK and very lamely attempt to hold up a bank and spend my final years in Parkhurst, three squares a day, free medical for life and a nice view of the Solent.

Love the logic! made me laugh

Here's the thing -- you have a decent enough "reserve" and you also have income, so why not release the reserve, pay the premiums and have money for enjoying life? No need to end up viewing the Solent through bars.

There's a pretty fair chance that I may not even have to spend any of that money, in which case it goes to my heirs hence no point throwing it away on a what if basis if I don't have to.

And anyway, I like the Solent, it's a lovely spot.

[eggers]

... Researched possible cover & all refused to insure after 65.

Plus, if had any prior serious illness, i.e. heart, cancer, irrespective of time or no ongoing problem, you won't be covered for any illness slightly related to the original illness...

You did not research very thoroughly, or perhaps limited yourself to Thai companies. A number of international companies will insure well past 65, some even at age 100.

Statement about pre-existing is also not true of all companies. Many will cover in full if the condition has been stable for several years. others will insure for just "acute exacerbations" of pre-exisitng conditions. And often exclusions will be dropped if no related claims in the first few years.

As for what is considered related to a pre-existing condition, that varies with the underwriter and company. In my experience European based insurers are quite reasonable. Someone with simple hypertension, for example, will not have heart conditions or stroke excluded, and even direct complications of the hypertension will not be excluded if it has well controlled for say 2 years prior to getting the policy. But it does depend on the company.

The services of a broker in navigating all this are very helpful.

To say, "did not research very thoroughly..." is completely incorrect .

The Co's were not Thai, but several international brokers, European & US Health Ins. Co's.

To clarify, I'm referring to Health Insurance, not travel insurance,as travel insurance can be more lenient dependant on travel involved .

Maybe you've had different experience, I'm relating what occurred & can assure you, pre-existing or past illnesses will not be covered by reputable insurers.

No way will stroke or heart be covered if have hyper-tension, just nonsense.

[oldwombat]

Most of these hospitals are grossly expensive as all of them love to overcharge.

They are talking about public hospitals.

[jpinx]

... Researched possible cover & all refused to insure after 65.

Plus, if had any prior serious illness, i.e. heart, cancer, irrespective of time or no ongoing problem, you won't be covered for any illness slightly related to the original illness...

You did not research very thoroughly, or perhaps limited yourself to Thai companies. A number of international companies will insure well past 65, some even at age 100.

Statement about pre-existing is also not true of all companies. Many will cover in full if the condition has been stable for several years. others will insure for just "acute exacerbations" of pre-exisitng conditions. And often exclusions will be dropped if no related claims in the first few years.

As for what is considered related to a pre-existing condition, that varies with the underwriter and company. In my experience European based insurers are quite reasonable. Someone with simple hypertension, for example, will not have heart conditions or stroke excluded, and even direct complications of the hypertension will not be excluded if it has well controlled for say 2 years prior to getting the policy. But it does depend on the company.

The services of a broker in navigating all this are very helpful.

To say, "did not research very thoroughly..." is completely incorrect .

The Co's were not Thai, but several international brokers, European & US Health Ins. Co's.

To clarify, I'm referring to Health Insurance, not travel insurance,as travel insurance can be more lenient dependant on travel involved .

Maybe you've had different experience, I'm relating what occurred & can assure you, pre-existing or past illnesses will not be covered by reputable insurers.

No way will stroke or heart be covered if have hyper-tension, just nonsense.

Factually incorrect. I have a quote and I have declared the pre-existing conditions and and they are covered if no treatment required within 5 years. The details were confirmed by email, not only the online form....

[cumgranosalum]

for 5 mill.!

Indeed you can, even the worst case scenario will not exceed this in cost. But once it has been spent, it is gone. Can you replenish this, or do you have another fall back plan after that emergency fund is exhausted?

Yes I can, the 5 mill. is money that is ring fenced, after that's gone I'm down to spending my money, my savings and my income, after that's exhausted I'm going to fly back to the UK and very lamely attempt to hold up a bank and spend my final years in Parkhurst, three squares a day, free medical for life and a nice view of the Solent.

Love the logic! made me laugh

Here's the thing -- you have a decent enough "reserve" and you also have income, so why not release the reserve, pay the premiums and have money for enjoying life? No need to end up viewing the Solent through bars.

There's a pretty fair chance that I may not even have to spend any of that money, in which case it goes to my heirs hence no point throwing it away on a what if basis if I don't have to.

And anyway, I like the Solent, it's a lovely spot.

you don't need to be in the nick to get free healthcare in the UK..........

[chiang mai]

You don't do humour do you, I can tell.

[mrmicbkktxl]

Where does all the money goes foreigner have to pay here?For example 400bt in national parks,airport tax,visa fees,overstay fees,hidden whatever costs and etc..30million tourists per year why this government is so greedy and can't open up a fond from all this money???Or make it easy let every arriving tourist buy an insurance for a small amount of money if they can't show a valid travel insurance and put long stayers into the 30bt scheme[for a higher amount]or open up a similar.

[GordonP]

Most of these hospitals are grossly expensive as all of them love to overcharge.

Banglamung is a government and probably the least expensive in Pattaya.

[eggers]

... Researched possible cover & all refused to insure after 65.

Plus, if had any prior serious illness, i.e. heart, cancer, irrespective of time or no ongoing problem, you won't be covered for any illness slightly related to the original illness...

You did not research very thoroughly, or perhaps limited yourself to Thai companies. A number of international companies will insure well past 65, some even at age 100.

Statement about pre-existing is also not true of all companies. Many will cover in full if the condition has been stable for several years. others will insure for just "acute exacerbations" of pre-exisitng conditions. And often exclusions will be dropped if no related claims in the first few years.

As for what is considered related to a pre-existing condition, that varies with the underwriter and company. In my experience European based insurers are quite reasonable. Someone with simple hypertension, for example, will not have heart conditions or stroke excluded, and even direct complications of the hypertension will not be excluded if it has well controlled for say 2 years prior to getting the policy. But it does depend on the company.

The services of a broker in navigating all this are very helpful.

To say, "did not research very thoroughly..." is completely incorrect .

The Co's were not Thai, but several international brokers, European & US Health Ins. Co's.

To clarify, I'm referring to Health Insurance, not travel insurance,as travel insurance can be more lenient dependant on travel involved .

Maybe you've had different experience, I'm relating what occurred & can assure you, pre-existing or past illnesses will not be covered by reputable insurers.

No way will stroke or heart be covered if have hyper-tension, just nonsense.

Factually incorrect. I have a quote and I have declared the pre-existing conditions and and they are covered if no treatment required within 5 years. The details were confirmed by email, not only the online form....

Just as you've had an Ok acceptance,simply put an opposite experience; not factually incorrect as you put it.

Good luck, hope you don't have any re-occurrences of prior illnesses; the test will be when make a claim!!

[Colabamumbai]

I pay all my hospital bills.