How to explain World War 2 to a Thai person

[englansi]

In answer to the OP; Simple: The US wanted an empire but couldn't beat Britain at sea. They engineered an illegal Asian and European war, and blackmailed a washed out British spokesman (hero in his early days certainly) to be the worst traitor in British history (that's saying something).

This post will probably be deleted because the victors claptrap is still widely held to be the truth despite the palpable absurdity to those who have bothered to check and do not have a vested interest in the establishment.

It's a sad story for us that inherited Churchill's price for hanging on to Chartwell and a place in history. Serving his mother's homeland interests more closely than his father's.

I think FDR was probably the biggest and most successful opportunist in history. Fair play to him; audacious and a winner, wish we'd had one.

I think that is succinct enough for a Thai.

Hmm, interesting opinion, stated as if it were fact.

Forgive me, I'm not British, I'm American, and I don't understand what you're talking about. I'm not denying what you say, don't get me wrong, and I'm not criticizing. I just really, really don't know what the deuce you're on about. Like, how was Churchill a traitor, again? For fighting the Germans? Hey, maybe you're right. Maybe Hitler knew Churchill was being blackmailed (for what, exactly? I have no idea), which might explain Dunkirk?

I am impressed, really. I was expecting much worse.

I can substantiate everything I said, plus a plethora more. I grew up Germany and England shortly after the war, to declare my interest and motivation.

I researched this question that I posed to myself (which led to the synopsis above); "Why was the only World Power between the world wars so threatened by a so recently totally emasculated Germany?"

The answer is mind boggling, simple and completely in the open to find. But most don't, because of the red herrings.

If you are genuinely interested in researching my sources for yourself; please PM me.

[ThaiKneeTim]

There is no excuse for not knowing about World War One or two. Regardless of which country you live in . They died for our freedom of today. Ignorance is no excuse .

True, but my country never said a word about it at school in the 50's/60's.......ENGLAND...

I started secondary school in England in 1958 and left in 1963 and one of the teachers their started teaching the second world war as history in 1961 and he was the first teacher to do it. Why because for many teachers at the time to them it was not history but their recent past and those who had served in the armed forces quite often did not want to talk about their experiences

One of my high school teachers, and the father of a middle school classmate, was a prisoner of war with the Japanese, my elder brother used to joke that this teacher would hide in the stock room for a smoke and a cry. My brother has always been insensitive!

I went to school in the 60's & 70's we had some WWII history in school but most informative was 'World at War' and 'All Our Yesterdays' on TV. Even as a young boy I was captivated by the scenes of misery in the battlefields.

My parents were too young to be caught up in the war, but I did know a German POW, conscripted at 15, who was held at a POW in Worcestershire. He met a local girl, settled in the UK and held a grudge against his homeland for sending him to war at so young an age.

My small town had air raid shelters everywhere, and as kids we used to find stashes of gas masks and tin helmets rotting away, and we used to play in the ruins of the old American military hospital. The old gas mask cases were used as lunch bags for loads of men for many years after the war.

So there was no escaping the war, unless you had your head up your arse!

[eastendanto]

I had UK comprehensive school education 60's early 70's and history classes only went up to around the Henry VIII era so modern history (as it was then) was not on the syllabus. Surprised that PresburyPark had it on his syllabus as I thought the history syllabus was the same all around the country.... obviously I stand corrected!!

As for Kannot and Russia's millions of deaths ..... whilst some contributable by War I think that their very own Mr. Stalin in his quest to change the Peasant style country into an Industrial powerhouse to rule the world may have had a far greater contribution to the demise of many a Russian life..

[Khon Kaen Dave]

Its not easy,most of them don't even know that the country was called Siam in those days.

[Krataiboy]

just don't try.

thais had their own bit of trouble with the vietnam incident.

ww2 happened 80 years ago, time to let go and focus on stuff happening today.

for you and me - involved or directly related to people involved, this might be different.

but why would a 35 year old thai be interested in adolf, winston and josef?

A 35-year-old Thai might well be the direct descendant of the thousands of Siamese men and women who were forced into slavery by the Japanese. The Allied losses during the construction of this monumentally brutal project were a fraction of those suffered by the Thai nation. Thai people have as much right to know what was done to their forebears as have the Brits, Kiwis or Aussies. This was Thailand's holocaust and should always be remembered for the lessons it teaches us all.

[little mary sunshine]

Slanted, misinformed, inaccurate, fictional account of

WWII... Can some Thai explain to..englis...WWII.

Edited March 9, 2016 by little mary sunshine

[TKDfella]

I've had similar experiences and one such argument with a school teacher who claimed that 'Thailand was the Land of the Free' because it had never been been conquered. He knew nothing about the French-Thai conflict and denied that the French Navy overpowered the Thai Navy. He also denied that the Japanese 'invaded' Thailand saying that they always had some friendly connection. Perhaps it's a matter of perspective. Way back of course the Burmese and Khmer held certain parts of Thailand until overthrown by joint Thai armies from various regions. But at that time it wasn't called 'Thailand' so perhaps it doesn't count, Ha!

[mankondang]

More Thais, through forced labour, died on the Burma railway than all the Western POWs put together. The same applied to the ones who were forced to construct roads, such as from Mae Teng to Pai etc.

None of this was on any history curriculum during my educational years. Much was learned from post war movies, as previously stated. Also by my travels through Thailand.

From my experience of the educational system in Australia, much is made of this and of WWI, Gallipoli, on ANZAC day, without much referennce that in the latter four times more Btits died there than the total nomber Aussies and Kiwis. Its just the collective inferiority complex that drives the Aussies nationalist need for international regocnition that requires a white only history like this to be taught. Maybe a recognition of Marbo will be taught soon?

How much do you know about the history of Thailand?

Maybe the age gap between you and your tgf, and relevant number of years of both your countries history should be considered?

Edited March 9, 2016 by mankondang

[BarnicaleBob]

Here is a link to a Youtube video that covers everything that lead to WWll and everything that happened in the West and the East. This link is to the first of the 13 episodes covering the whole thing. Very interesting to watch and if you watch it with her you can explain some of the details as it plays.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mFG0Du_DKU

[englansi]

More Thais, through forced labour, died on the Burma railway than all the Western POWs put together. The same applied to the ones who were forced to construct roads, such as from Mae Tent to Pai etc.

None of this was on any history curriculum during my educational years. Much was learned from post war movies, as previously stated. Also by my travels through Thailand. From my experience of the educational system in Australia, much is made of this and of WWI, Gallipoli, on ANZAC day, without much referennce that four times more Btits died there than the total nomber Aussies and Kiwis. Its just the collective inferiority complex that drives the Aussies nationalist need for international regocnition that requires a white only history like this.

Maybe a recognition of Mambo will be taught soon?

How much do you know about the history of Thailand?

Maybe the age gap between you and your tgf, and relevant years of both your countries history should be considered?

I often try to point out the %age of ANZACS at Galliploi vs French and British; to similar effect.

[cumgranosalum]

I had UK comprehensive school education 60's early 70's and history classes only went up to around the Henry VIII era so modern history (as it was then) was not on the syllabus. Surprised that PresburyPark had it on his syllabus as I thought the history syllabus was the same all around the country.... obviously I stand corrected!!

As for Kannot and Russia's millions of deaths ..... whilst some contributable by War I think that their very own Mr. Stalin in his quest to change the Peasant style country into an Industrial powerhouse to rule the world may have had a far greater contribution to the demise of many a Russian life..

..and there you have an example of someone who knows next to nothing about the deaths in WW2

[englansi]

Here is a link to a Youtube video that covers everything that lead to WWll and everything that happened in the West and the East. This link is to the first of the 13 episodes covering the whole thing. Very interesting to watch and if you watch it with her you can explain some of the details as it plays.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mFG0Du_DKU

It doesn't even go into any detail of the profound importance of the Balfour declaration or the reality of the Lusitania sinking, much less the jostling over Mesopotamia which is the linchpin of the story. Victor red herring claptrap to disguise the reality of ... oh never-mind. They won convincingly, both the war and the propaganda. To this day.

The pop version of history for people who want to eat cake only.

[cumgranosalum]

More Thais, through forced labour, died on the Burma railway than all the Western POWs put together. The same applied to the ones who were forced to construct roads, such as from Mae Teng to Pai etc.

None of this was on any history curriculum during my educational years. Much was learned from post war movies, as previously stated. Also by my travels through Thailand.

From my experience of the educational system in Australia, much is made of this and of WWI, Gallipoli, on ANZAC day, without much referennce that in the latter four times more Btits died there than the total nomber Aussies and Kiwis. Its just the collective inferiority complex that drives the Aussies nationalist need for international regocnition that requires a white only history like this to be taught. Maybe a recognition of Marbo will be taught soon?

How much do you know about the history of Thailand?

Maybe the age gap between you and your tgf, and relevant number of years of both your countries history should be considered?

You are right about the maths at Gallipoli, and the fact that there is a lot of misconception about what happened there.....but that isn't what Gallipoli is about for Aussies....it is far more connected with National identity....something that is still not put to rest a century later.

[englansi]

I had UK comprehensive school education 60's early 70's and history classes only went up to around the Henry VIII era so modern history (as it was then) was not on the syllabus. Surprised that PresburyPark had it on his syllabus as I thought the history syllabus was the same all around the country.... obviously I stand corrected!!

As for Kannot and Russia's millions of deaths ..... whilst some contributable by War I think that their very own Mr. Stalin in his quest to change the Peasant style country into an Industrial powerhouse to rule the world may have had a far greater contribution to the demise of many a Russian life..

..and there you have an example of someone who knows next to nothing about the deaths in WW2

Are you sure you are in the right forum cumgranosalum? You appear to have an intact frontal lobe.

[cumgranosalum]

Here is a link to a Youtube video that covers everything that lead to WWll and everything that happened in the West and the East. This link is to the first of the 13 episodes covering the whole thing. Very interesting to watch and if you watch it with her you can explain some of the details as it plays.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mFG0Du_DKU

It doesn't even go into any detail of the profound importance of the Balfour declaration or the reality of the Lusitania sinking, much less the jostling over Mesopotamia which is the linchpin of the story. Victor red herring claptrap to disguise the reality of ... oh never-mind. They won convincingly, both the war and the propaganda. To this day.

The pop version of history for people who want to eat cake only.

Those who rely solely on TV and movies for their history will NEVER get the whole picture.....to do that you need to read and be guided by teachers...there are no shortcuts to understanding.

[siamcrut]

Very easy to explain:

People lived in poverty, no job,

no proper food, majority was hungry and thirsty, people felt cheated by immigrants and their political representatives.

And then finally, just one guy,

no sorry, hold on:

I meant a few guys, on yaba, who blamed it all on them and used the anger of the folks to get it started...

sounds familiar...?

(getting there soon again)

My 2 cents.

[englansi]

Here is a link to a Youtube video that covers everything that lead to WWll and everything that happened in the West and the East. This link is to the first of the 13 episodes covering the whole thing. Very interesting to watch and if you watch it with her you can explain some of the details as it plays.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mFG0Du_DKU

It doesn't even go into any detail of the profound importance of the Balfour declaration or the reality of the Lusitania sinking, much less the jostling over Mesopotamia which is the linchpin of the story. Victor red herring claptrap to disguise the reality of ... oh never-mind. They won convincingly, both the war and the propaganda. To this day.

The pop version of history for people who want to eat cake only.

Those who rely solely on TV and movies for their history will NEVER get the whole picture.....to do that you need to read and be guided by teachers...there are no shortcuts to understanding.

I can't resist quoting someone on youtube (genuine respect and regards to those to whom this does not apply, and I know some very well indeed): Arguing with an American about history is like arguing with a creationist about evolution.

Well, it made me laugh.

[englansi]

Very easy to explain:

People lived in poverty, no job,

no proper food, majority was hungry and thirsty, people felt cheated by immigrants and their political representatives.

And then finally, just one guy,

no sorry, hold on:

I meant a few guys, on yaba, who blamed it all on them and used the anger of the folks to get it started...

sounds familiar...?

(getting there soon again)

My 2 cents.

The correct currency for this wildly inaccurate and misleading synopsis.

[BookMan]

More Thais, through forced labour, died on the Burma railway than all the Western POWs put together. The same applied to the ones who were forced to construct roads, such as from Mae Teng to Pai etc.

None of this was on any history curriculum during my educational years. Much was learned from post war movies, as previously stated. Also by my travels through Thailand.

From my experience of the educational system in Australia, much is made of this and of WWI, Gallipoli, on ANZAC day, without much referennce that in the latter four times more Btits died there than the total nomber Aussies and Kiwis. Its just the collective inferiority complex that drives the Aussies nationalist need for international regocnition that requires a white only history like this to be taught. Maybe a recognition of Marbo will be taught soon?

How much do you know about the history of Thailand?

Maybe the age gap between you and your tgf, and relevant number of years of both your countries history should be considered?

It isn't a competition about which country suffered higher POW casualties and the winner is the only one and true country worthy of having their memory honoured.

Bringing total losses at Gallipoli into the equation is nonsensical. There were many reasons Australia identified so strongly with their losses at Gallipoli (volunteer force, new country 1st real conflict (exclude boer war) etc. Have a read on the history and reasons behind that and don't get caught up in who had the bigger total losses.

You seem obsessed that this is a competition and only those who win the numbers should be recognized. It is not and it shows a clear lack of understanding on your part to understand the role these events have in Australian history and psyche and the basics behind the events in context to Australia and its population and how it developed part of its future.

Focusing on one little part of the event in this case the ANZACS, does not discount the tragedy of other groups nor their losses. It is simply different and can be recognized and acknowledged by relevant groups

How much do i know about the History of Thailand? How is it relevant to asking how to explain ww2 to a friend?

From your reckoning I should never ask to want to impart information and to share experiences and pieces of my life with someone unless i have completed a checklist and the ledger says it is okay, parity of knowledge on the subject is achieved and i can now go ahead and deliver some information?

Lastly , regarding any age gap and history of each country.... Is everything in life a competition with you, where only the Biggest and Oldest and most Historied can be worthy of speech and query?

Just focus on the core question here old chap.

[Dumbastheycome]

My wife fully inderstands the significance of WW2 in general.And especially my disgust at the American /Thai commemoration over the River Kwai bridge!

It is not difficult to research the statistics of those who died at the hands of the Japanese in this particular situation alone.

US Americans were in a distinct minority. The majority by far actually were asian.

Thailand is no more deficient in educating than the USA , who were supplying Hitler until the Japanese embarrassed them with Pearl Harbour, portrays itself as the singular winner of the WW2 against both Hitler and Japan and thus the meritorious claimant to global dictatorship!!

Shove it , as hard as, right up!

[Suitcase]

Been there and done that with nurses, secretary at Mitsubishi, bank manager, and a intelegent IT girl.

You need a simpler topic of conversation!

Try smartphone, Facebook, Line, ATM, house, condo,

car, motorcycle.

[GAZZPA]

The limit of my ex's and her family and village knowledge stopped at what was to eat,who was shagging who,she admitted she only voted for Thaksin because she got 200 b ,had no clue about his policies,new nothing of any history,except Thailand was the greatest country in the world,and could beat any other,she watched the news,but when something about syria,or something outside Thailand came up,no interest.Compare this to my friend in the Philippines,who not only can i have a proper conversation with,but knows about Syria,the refugee crisis in Europe,ww2,and heaps of stuff,her biggest dream is to travel,where as my ex mrs refused to ever leave Thailand[mainly due to the panic of no som tam],my freind in the phillippines comes from a poor family,but her EDUCATION has been so much better,and this is the crux of the matter the crazy face saving,and lack of a decent education,Thailand has and never will do anything but sit in it's own insular bubble as the rest of southeast asia draws further and further ahead and away,and the main reason for this they have better educated and informed populations,who actually want to learn about the outside world, i mean my local immigration office has no one who can speak good English,the immigration office.!!!!

"Nobody speaks English at the immigration office? Gee, too bad!" is what many Thais are thinking, and likely saying out loud amongst themselves.Could it possibly be that, unbelievable as it may sound, they're getting tired of us being here? Perish the thought!

Honestly, many of them are sick to death of farangs who come here and constantly denigrate them and their society. Don't think they're not aware of it.

"Don't like it here? Move to Guatemala! Likely you'll be begging to come back here within six months. Can't afford to live in your home country? Don't blame us!"

Boring, boring, boring.. Yet another of the "if you dont like it go home" brigade. When will you find a new song to sing.

People who live here are bound to make comments on the good and bad of living here, get used to it, it isn't going to change. Probably the same way that Thai people do when they live abroad and every other nation for that matter.

[siamcrut]

Very easy to explain:

People lived in poverty, no job,

no proper food, majority was hungry and thirsty, people felt cheated by immigrants and their political representatives.

And then finally, just one guy,

no sorry, hold on:

I meant a few guys, on yaba, who blamed it all on them and used the anger of the folks to get it started...

sounds familiar...?

(getting there soon again)

My 2 cents.

The correct currency for this wildly inaccurate and misleading synopsis.

The OP's question was: How to explain it to a Thai person!

[englansi]

My wife fully inderstands the significance of WW2 in general.And especially my disgust at the American /Thai commemoration over the River Kwai bridge!

It is not difficult to research the statistics of those who died at the hands of the Japanese in this particular situation alone.

US Americans were in a distinct minority. The majority by far actually were asian.

Thailand is no more deficient in educating than the USA , who were supplying Hitler until the Japanese embarrassed them with Pearl Harbour, portrays itself as the singular winner of the WW2 against both Hitler and Japan and thus the meritorious claimant to global dictatorship!!

Shove it , as hard as, right up!

Whilst I agree with the sentiment; they did win, palpably. Try telling another view to one of their hoi poloi; they can't hear you. The decent ones keep quiet. If that's not victory I need a new definition.

Pearl Harbour was no embarrassment. The principal muscle was well out to sea, and no mistake.

[BookMan]

Been there and done that with nurses, secretary at Mitsubishi, bank manager, and a intelegent IT girl.

You need a simpler topic of conversation!

Try smartphone, Facebook, Line, ATM, house, condo,

car, motorcycle.

Nah, not at all.

I have had plenty of off beat conversations with her. It was simply trying to explain ww2 or find a common reference point

[Dumbastheycome]

The Allied forces won, in both scenarios ! Even the horror of the nuclear weapon was a collaboration of Allied development. !

[Brer Fox]

In that context what does Victory Monument in BKK represent. Does anybody know what Thailand victories are represented by that monument.

[GAZZPA]

Here is a link to a Youtube video that covers everything that lead to WWll and everything that happened in the West and the East. This link is to the first of the 13 episodes covering the whole thing. Very interesting to watch and if you watch it with her you can explain some of the details as it plays.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mFG0Du_DKU

It doesn't even go into any detail of the profound importance of the Balfour declaration or the reality of the Lusitania sinking, much less the jostling over Mesopotamia which is the linchpin of the story. Victor red herring claptrap to disguise the reality of ... oh never-mind. They won convincingly, both the war and the propaganda. To this day.

The pop version of history for people who want to eat cake only.

Those who rely solely on TV and movies for their history will NEVER get the whole picture.....to do that you need to read and be guided by teachers...there are no shortcuts to understanding.

And you are that teacher I suppose. I have seen a few of your condescending posts now, clearly you fancy yourself as a well read intellectual, and you seem to believe that no other person in the Western World can possible understand the details of WW2 like you because you have lived here so long you are enlightened, everyone else is clueless in your eyes.

Total crap, you disastrously underestimate other peoples intelligence in this matter and accuse the West as being blind to the truth,, dear oh dear.

You cannot see the obvious fact that people are poorly educated (here) in this matter, despite all your years living in an "enlightened state", very strange. Wood for the trees perhaps? Polluted and lost the ability to think laterally? Feel the need to defend the locals? Maybe, who knows and who cares, enjoy your reading.

[englansi]

Very easy to explain:

People lived in poverty, no job,

no proper food, majority was hungry and thirsty, people felt cheated by immigrants and their political representatives.

And then finally, just one guy,

no sorry, hold on:

I meant a few guys, on yaba, who blamed it all on them and used the anger of the folks to get it started...

sounds familiar...?

(getting there soon again)

My 2 cents.

The correct currency for this wildly inaccurate and misleading synopsis.

The OP's question was: How to explain it to a Thai person!

Ahhh. Mea Culpa. I thought you meant Germans! Fair play, the Dust Bowl is as good a place to begin as any. Not sure the US elite were taking amphetamines, but I'm sure you have your sources.

[puukao]

luckily i understand every language in the world, but there are a few countries that couldn't write any history on WW2. they are all dead. and 89 publishers rejected other important parts, i spoke with everyone there. and 76 books got it wrong on a few subjects, since new information surfaced later. and in 100-years i will know every single bullet fired!!!!