Red wine

[amexpat]

You're not getting a decent red at 300 THB. Think 500+. Then you also need to know what you like. I like Cabs. All reds are not the same. Check out Rim Ping. Best of luck.

Keep in mind all wine drinkers are not the same either.

BTW, Foodland in Pattaya sells it for 590 baht. Does that make it OK?

[elektrified]

At one time - years ago - if you searched around Rimping (or even Wine Connection) you could find an O.K. bottle of red for 300 THB. Usually from Chile or Australia. Then it got to the point that 300 THB bottles became undrinkable and you had to look for 400 THB bottles, then 500 THB bottles. Now, anything in Rimping under 600 is absolutely terrible. I did try and look for the Cabernet that neilrob recommended around the Christmas holidays on sale for about 380THB but have never been able to find a bottle; only the Merlot which is not very good. I don't know what happened at Wine Connection but now, anything up to around 600-700 is absolutely terrible there. Thank god you can buy a glass of their featured wines to try before you make the mistake of purchasing a bottle. I mostly do without these days as I get tired of the disappointments and can't really afford 1000 THB bottles of wine on a regular basis at this point in time.

[just_Elaine]

At one time - years ago - if you searched around Rimping (or even Wine Connection) you could find an O.K. bottle of red for 300 THB. Usually from Chile or Australia. Then it got to the point that 300 THB bottles became undrinkable and you had to look for 400 THB bottles, then 500 THB bottles. Now, anything in Rimping under 600 is absolutely terrible. I did try and look for the Cabernet that neilrob recommended around the Christmas holidays on sale for about 380THB but have never been able to find a bottle; only the Merlot which is not very good. I don't know what happened at Wine Connection but now, anything up to around 600-700 is absolutely terrible there. Thank god you can buy a glass of their featured wines to try before you make the mistake of purchasing a bottle. I mostly do without these days as I get tired of the disappointments and can't really afford 1000 THB bottles of wine on a regular basis at this point in time.

Regarding price, we have had bottles for 800-900 baht that were terrible. We miss the Carrefour store. That's where one used to be able to get reasonably priced good tasting wine... For now, it is box wine which has been not so good this year, mixed drinks and beer. We'll wait until we are out of Thailand to try to find some good wine.

[vogie]

Home brew kits are excellent and easy to make? works out at about 50 THB a litre

Will help while away some time.

'Kettles' for extracting natural herbs ( about 7000 THB ) give up to 60 proof add some flavourings and barrel chips an voila... JD or JB at about 200 THB a litre.

At least this is possible, not that I would recommend any one to break Thai Law, it does work in "Other countries"

Yes I concur, and certainly not worth the risk of a 200 baht fine. ?

[Sparkles]

Thailand has had many offers from Australian wine growers to get a wine industry off the ground here

and as far as I can find out its not been taken up.Would employ many Thais and aready a market as more middle class Thai's are becoming wine drinkers.

The so called fruit wines we are offered here now are just awful and unless you pay way over the odds for the real stuff you can keep looking and hoping.

So bad I have switched to a couple of Gin and Tonics, when the sun goes down,nice in the hot weather

[elektrified]

At one time - years ago - if you searched around Rimping (or even Wine Connection) you could find an O.K. bottle of red for 300 THB. Usually from Chile or Australia. Then it got to the point that 300 THB bottles became undrinkable and you had to look for 400 THB bottles, then 500 THB bottles. Now, anything in Rimping under 600 is absolutely terrible. I did try and look for the Cabernet that neilrob recommended around the Christmas holidays on sale for about 380THB but have never been able to find a bottle; only the Merlot which is not very good. I don't know what happened at Wine Connection but now, anything up to around 600-700 is absolutely terrible there. Thank god you can buy a glass of their featured wines to try before you make the mistake of purchasing a bottle. I mostly do without these days as I get tired of the disappointments and can't really afford 1000 THB bottles of wine on a regular basis at this point in time.

Regarding price, we have had bottles for 800-900 baht that were terrible. We miss the Carrefour store. That's where one used to be able to get reasonably priced good tasting wine... For now, it is box wine which has been not so good this year, mixed drinks and beer. We'll wait until we are out of Thailand to try to find some good wine.

Yes I agree, Carrefour used to stock some of the better bottles of wine. Wine Connection around the same period of time did as well. Then something changed. They discontinued their monthly email newsletter which included a description of the recommended wines , and it seemed the entire direction of the wines changed; like maybe a new buyer came on board or something. I've given up on wine here.

[MadMac]

Was mentioned already, probably tax related. Same happened with beer, just far more obvious as there are only 3 major brands one could possibly consume.

[neilrob]

You're not getting a decent red at 300 THB. Think 500+. Then you also need to know what you like. I like Cabs. All reds are not the same. Check out Rim Ping. Best of luck.

Keep in mind all wine drinkers are not the same either.

BTW, Foodland in Pattaya sells it for 590 baht. Does that make it OK?

That is about the price I would expect for this wine (properly stored). So it may well be OK if it is indeed in good condition.

[MadMac]

I don't know why you insist it was spoiled. The wine was just fine. And for the price you usually get much worse stuff.

[Bantex]

Does anyone know of a place with decent red wine that is imported and not fruit wine?

!

Not fruit wine, what the hell are grapes ?

[MadMac]

Does anyone know of a place with decent red wine that is imported and not fruit wine?

!

Not fruit wine, what the hell are grapes ?

This whole country is one big scam. Buy apple juice and they put grapes inside. Buy grape wine and they mix it with apples and oranges . Go figure....

[xylophone]

Bottle is open, wine is ok, nothing to brag about but certainly not spoiled. Drinkable.

Saw that for sale the other day in Villa Market and tried a bottle and although it is not "spoiled" it certainly is not what it should be, suggesting as another has said, that it has not been stored well. Okay for a pizza or a spicy Thai dish, provided the wine is chilled a little, otherwise I wouldn't keep it long

As for others mentioned: – Berri Estates, Brookford, and the one from France "Galets", well they all contain fruit juice unfortunately and you would be extremely unlikely to get a decent bottle of red for under 300 baht as per the original poster's request.

Wine Connection does have a couple of reds and whites which are about 369 baht a bottle, however these also contain fruit juice and are bottled in Vietnam. The red is mixed with "juice of red fruits" (blackcurrant etc) and the white has predominantly passionfruit juice added.

I and many others have posted about this practice on the "Mont Clair" thread and indeed that thread contains the names of many others which have fruit juice added, and this is very easy to spot on some of them because it actually says so, and very hard on others because the only thing you will see on the back of the label are the words (very often in small print) "Fruit Wine".

The most "infamous" of these wines is Mont Clair, which was followed by many from Australia, such a shame that this practice is ruining the "brand Australia" which has a great reputation for its wine, quickly followed by some from South Africa and even France, whereas some from the USA have been here for quite a few years but have been operating "under the radar".

[Dmaxdan]

You could always try chateau Lamphun. Their mulberry wine isn't too bad as an alternative. You can go and visit their winery, have lunch and try their products.

Prices used to be about 270 baht a bottle.

[JaseTheBass]

Thank heavens I can buy good beer cheaper here than in the USA.

7/11 have a Jacobs Creek CabSav for around 750b. Should be drinkable.

[Oscar2]

You could always try chateau Lamphun. Their mulberry wine isn't too bad as an alternative. You can go and visit their winery, have lunch and try their products.

Prices used to be about 270 baht a bottle.

could you provide contact details? thank you. (tried some provided by Thai friends and although not special it was O.K. with Thai food).

[bamboozled]

I bought a bottle of the Bushman's Gully a few months ago and it was great. I then went back and bought another bottle a week later or so and ended up pouring it down the kitchen sink. Undrinkable. I kept wondering if somehow I had mistaken the name but after reading this thread where some folks found it enjoyable and some folks poured it down the sink…I tend to think I did not make a mistake. It seems some bottles of the Bushman's Gully are ok and others complete crap.

[mr chow]

Under 300b for a bottle. Yeah, it's called vinegar!

[xylophone]

I bought a bottle of the Bushman's Gully a few months ago and it was great. I then went back and bought another bottle a week later or so and ended up pouring it down the kitchen sink. Undrinkable. I kept wondering if somehow I had mistaken the name but after reading this thread where some folks found it enjoyable and some folks poured it down the sink…I tend to think I did not make a mistake. It seems some bottles of the Bushman's Gully are ok and others complete crap.

You might be onto something...........the bottle that I tried was a 2013 Shiraz/Cab blend and was very ordinary, selling at 360 baht (or thereabouts). Whereas the Bushmans Gully 2013 Shiraz was selling for its "normal" price of just under 500 baht.

Perhaps the wine had been discounted because of storage problems or simply because it was a poor wine/blend to start with and has not lasted the distance well?

PS. Addendum to my previous post: some cheaper wines from Italy also have fruit juice added.

PPS. The cheapest 'reasonable' red wine I have seen comes from Chile at around 460 baht and an Aussie wine, Barwang, (both Shiraz and Cab Sauv) at around 529 baht (Big C).

PPPS. Stay away from the "Dom Simeon" range of Spanish wines as they will take the enamel off your teeth. Quite why they bothered to bottle and export such cr@p is a mystery.

[Dmaxdan]

You could always try chateau Lamphun. Their mulberry wine isn't too bad as an alternative. You can go and visit their winery, have lunch and try their products.

Prices used to be about 270 baht a bottle.

could you provide contact details? thank you. (tried some provided by Thai friends and although not special it was O.K. with Thai food).

To be honest, the winery is in the middle of nowhere..

I do have an email and telephone number, but apologies to the moderators if I'm breaking forum rules by posting this information, but here goes.

Email. - [email protected]

Telephone - 081-4591869

[mcm991]

Its not a case of "some genius deciding" etc etc, its to do with the massive tax the government slap on "luxury goods" and which they increased a couple of years ago taking decent bottles from around 399 baht up to over 1000 baht each.

----------

P.P.: I actually meant the geniuses who decided to inflict this massive tax. I know it has everything to do with the tax. I often wonder if they've actually increased their revenues on wine or if they've declined. My guess is they've declined. I drink more beer now and hear so many people complaining about the current crap juice that's on the market now and which one doesn't suck too much! What's next, beer? Increase the tax on that to a ridicules level and then let the companies alter that also!

I'm always a little baffled where people always quote the massive taxes on wine. 300% is the figure usually quoted.

Truth is ......

Australian and Chilean wine come in at exactly 0% duty - due to free trade agreements with Thailand.

There is of course excise tax at 60% of FOB price.

and VAT - 7% of FOB price

Municipal tax is 10% of excise tax.

and lastly 2% health tax.

It all totals about 70% of the FOB wholesale price.

The reason wine sells for a lot of money here is because every label needs to be registered to a specific importer - essentially giving a monopoly to a few big players. The importers/agents are making a ton of money while happily promoting the story that the taxes are huge. Nobody really wants to rock the boat.

Adding fruit to wine reduces the taxes further.

PS. Old world wine is taxed at 54% duty in addition to the others listed. - still not the 300% often quoted.

Edited March 17, 2016 by mcm991

[JaseTheBass]

Its not a case of "some genius deciding" etc etc, its to do with the massive tax the government slap on "luxury goods" and which they increased a couple of years ago taking decent bottles from around 399 baht up to over 1000 baht each.

----------

P.P.: I actually meant the geniuses who decided to inflict this massive tax. I know it has everything to do with the tax. I often wonder if they've actually increased their revenues on wine or if they've declined. My guess is they've declined. I drink more beer now and hear so many people complaining about the current crap juice that's on the market now and which one doesn't suck too much! What's next, beer? Increase the tax on that to a ridicules level and then let the companies alter that also!

I'm always a little baffled where people always quote the massive taxes on wine. 300% is the figure usually quoted.

Truth is ......

Australian and Chilean wine come in at exactly 0% duty - due to free trade agreements with Thailand.

There is of course excise tax at 60% of FOB price.

and VAT - 7% of FOB price

Municipal tax is 10% of excise tax.

and lastly 2% health tax.

It all totals about 70% of the FOB wholesale price.

The reason wine sells for a lot of money here is because every label needs to be registered to a specific importer - essentially giving a monopoly to a few big players. The importers/agents are making a ton of money while happily promoting the story that the taxes are huge. Nobody really wants to rock the boat.

Adding fruit to wine reduces the taxes further.

PS. Old world wine is taxed at 54% duty in addition to the others listed. - still not the 300% often quoted.

All the taxes added up come to 312% on alcohol imported from non FTA countries because the taxes are piled on top of each other. This was the case when I was an importer a dozen or so years ago (beer, not wine).

The job of your lawyer is to agree on a value of the goods being imported to obviously make the taxes as low as possible, so forget about the actual value of them.

Edited March 17, 2016 by JaseTheBass

[masuk]

Ten days ago, I saw bottles of Penfolds (Australian) wine on sale at the "Duty Free" shop at Chiang Mai airport, for THB3500 a bottle. I forget which BIN it came from, but I'll look at our local Wine shop and see what the various Penfolds cost there.

Irrespective of what the Total Duty and Taxes are, the costs in Thailand are ludicrous. Meanwhile, what does Thai "Whiskey" cost a bottle? Is the high cost of wine really to prevent alcoholism, drunkenness or whatever?

[Lizard2010]

Ten days ago, I saw bottles of Penfolds (Australian) wine on sale at the "Duty Free" shop at Chiang Mai airport, for THB3500 a bottle. I forget which BIN it came from, but I'll look at our local Wine shop and see what the various Penfolds cost there.

Irrespective of what the Total Duty and Taxes are, the costs in Thailand are ludicrous. Meanwhile, what does Thai "Whiskey" cost a bottle? Is the high cost of wine really to prevent alcoholism, drunkenness or whatever?

I think you hit the nail on the head on this one

I beleive that the tx on Wines is just another way of sticking it into us to make us spens more money

There is not other reason

If they had not watered down the wine

There would be more wine sold

You can not win in Thailand

[masuk]

Well, it's been pointed out that 300% tax is not correct. The fact remains that Australian wine, entering Thailand at 0% tax under a free trade agreement, costs more than 300% than the retail price in wine outlets in Australia. This is in Chiang Mai. Wine is noticeably cheaper around Pattaya/Jom Tien.

I checked some Penfolds wine today and a good red costs $19.00. As I said earlier, asking 3500baht at CNX Duty Free is ludicrous, piracy and a rip-off.

[neilrob]

Well, it's been pointed out that 300% tax is not correct. The fact remains that Australian wine, entering Thailand at 0% tax under a free trade agreement, costs more than 300% than the retail price in wine outlets in Australia. This is in Chiang Mai. Wine is noticeably cheaper around Pattaya/Jom Tien.

I checked some Penfolds wine today and a good red costs $19.00. As I said earlier, asking 3500baht at CNX Duty Free is ludicrous, piracy and a rip-off.

This is a meaningless comparison---you are comparing apples and oranges! You have to compare like with like, knowing which Penfolds wine it is. Penfolds make wines at a wide range of prices. Typically, the wines sold in Duty Free Shops are higher end wines. For example, if this is a bottle of Penfolds RWT Shiraz 2013, then 3500B is a bargain. This wine retails in Australia for about 160AUD, more than 4000B. At the other of the scale, a bottle of Penfolds Koonunga Hill Shiraz Cabernet is only about 16AUD in Australia.

If you really compare the exact same wine you will find that wines from, say, Chile or Australia are typically about 50 to 75% higher than in countries like the US or UK. For example, Root 1 Cabernet Sauvignon 2013 from Chile is available in the US for about $12, including tax, which is about 420B. I buy this exact same wine in CM for 645B, just 54% higher than the US price. All this talk of 300% tax is just that, all empty talk.

[uhhh ohhh]

Well, it's been pointed out that 300% tax is not correct. The fact remains that Australian wine, entering Thailand at 0% tax under a free trade agreement, costs more than 300% than the retail price in wine outlets in Australia. This is in Chiang Mai. Wine is noticeably cheaper around Pattaya/Jom Tien.

I checked some Penfolds wine today and a good red costs $19.00. As I said earlier, asking 3500baht at CNX Duty Free is ludicrous, piracy and a rip-off.

This is a meaningless comparison---you are comparing apples and oranges! You have to compare like with like, knowing which Penfolds wine it is. Penfolds make wines at a wide range of prices. Typically, the wines sold in Duty Free Shops are higher end wines. For example, if this is a bottle of Penfolds RWT Shiraz 2013, then 3500B is a bargain. This wine retails in Australia for about 160AUD, more than 4000B. At the other of the scale, a bottle of Penfolds Koonunga Hill Shiraz Cabernet is only about 16AUD in Australia.

If you really compare the exact same wine you will find that wines from, say, Chile or Australia are typically about 50 to 75% higher than in countries like the US or UK. For example, Root 1 Cabernet Sauvignon 2013 from Chile is available in the US for about $12, including tax, which is about 420B. I buy this exact same wine in CM for 645B, just 54% higher than the US price. All this talk of 300% tax is just that, all empty talk.

REALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yellow Tail Australian, is about 700 Baht here in Chiang Mai or about $20.00 USD!!! In America, on sale about $5.00 at Total Wine. I'd have to say Yellow Tail is probably the #1 selling Australian wine in the U.S. We're not talking about an oddball wine. $20.00 versus $5.00?!?!? I don't give a damn if it's tax, mark-up, broker fees, etc.......OUTRAGEOUS!!!!

[masuk]

Ever get the feeling that we farangs are paying a helluva lot for drink and food? A mate of mine has just had 2 weeks in Chiang Mai, and he summed it up by saying the only thing that's cheap is the rent.

However, I must say that an hour or less at one of the markets is far cheaper than the stores.

But it still hurts to pay so much for a drop of red.

[SooKee]

Xylophone pointed me in the direction of Rare Vineyards wines at Wine Connection, I guess they are still stocked. Not bad, but over priced for what it is, but then, TIT. Decent enough similar wines in Europe about 5-7 Euro per bottle but we're not in Europe. I dread to think what really decent stuff would cost here, several thousand baht I guess.

Had a (so he thought) wine boffin at a table with us a few nights ago. Mocked why the restaurant served the red chilled stating it should be at room temperature. Politely pointed out that 'chambre' originated from France when living rooms the size of football pitches were heated by log fires with light to full reds being served somewhere between 12-15, NOT 34 degrees!! Funnier was the fact that he'd ordered the house red (Mont Clair), try drinking that at anything above a 'lager chill' and it ain't nice at all.

I was recommended to try Fleur de Galetis and Fina di Malpicas as boxed reds. I did. I won't again. FDG was slightly better, more fruit juice I guess. I too have switched to drink G&T at sundown now.

Not sure why somebody thought Chiang Mai pricey for food. Depends what you eat, where and what you're used to paying. I find Chiang Mai about half the price of Phuket for instance with a decent Italian 3 course meal for two around 1,000 - 1,400. Good enough Indian food around 600 per head for a meal with starters, nan bread and rice. Thai food dirt cheap. Sure there's some high end restaurants here that can be 1,000 a head, equivalent in Phuket would be 2-3,000. Like anywhere, you have to know where to go.

Edited March 19, 2016 by SooKee

[neilrob]

"Yellow Tail Australian, is about 700 Baht here in Chiang Mai or about $20.00 USD!!! In America, on sale about $5.00 at Total Wine. I'd have to say Yellow Tail is probably the #1 selling Australian wine in the U.S. We're not talking about an oddball wine. $20.00 versus $5.00?!?!? I don't give a damn if it's tax, mark-up, broker fees, etc.......OUTRAGEOUS!!!!"

You are certainly right, uhhh ohhh, that is a ludicrous price for an indifferent wine. When I bought a bottle, a couple of years ago, it was 399B. I wonder who would buy it at this price, since better wines are available much cheaper. Maybe they are trying to trade on the familiar name.

[Lizard2010]

Well, it's been pointed out that 300% tax is not correct. The fact remains that Australian wine, entering Thailand at 0% tax under a free trade agreement, costs more than 300% than the retail price in wine outlets in Australia. This is in Chiang Mai. Wine is noticeably cheaper around Pattaya/Jom Tien.

I checked some Penfolds wine today and a good red costs $19.00. As I said earlier, asking 3500baht at CNX Duty Free is ludicrous, piracy and a rip-off.

Whick Bin was it

Have you tried many Penfolds bins ??