Dog bite in Thailand - a word of Warning

[falang07]

The correct immediate first aid is to wash the bite wound with soap and water, then put iodine on the bite; that done, I went to the local hospital.

I'd go for Hydrogen Peroxide as the first step, then iodine... (ignore the crazy ranting in the vid btw!)

the video is very misleading, see http://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/science-questions/question115.htm

[sandyf]

Seems like they love dogs so much in this country yet neglect them and allow them to run riot. I was bitten in Phetchaburi, whilst doing some sightseeing around town. I only had a bottle of Sprite with me but immediately washed the wound, then went to the nearest chemist and got some antiseptic and clean cloth. Then when back in Bkk (maybe 2 days later) went to travel clinic and got treatment and also treatment when I got back home, all good thankfully. Bloody animals I would like to see all those f***** animals put down bloody nuisance and danger to public. Dont they have local councils that manage this sort of thing? of course not, we know where their pointless priorities lie!

The local councils go round and vaccinate the cats every year? few years?... the dogs I don't think so. But of course each council is it's own entity and some better than others...

I didn't know about the rabies threat, although I knew locals get shots if bitten.

Going to mash up some hot chillies in a squirt bottle as posted above...

The rabies threat is very real, one of our dogs got bitten and contracted rabies. We were quite fortunate the dog did not become aggressive, just lethargic before it died. It should have been put down but the family do not believe in killing for any reason.

Cats are just as much of a risk, they tend to carry the virus rather than suffer from the disease.

Many are very quick to condemn the Thais on management but they are caught between a rock and a hard place with high profile foreigners interfering. Dame Judy Dench and Ricky Gervais had a campaign to protect soi dogs, the government probably thought better to stay out and do nothing.

I do not know if there is any truth in it, but when I first came to Thailand about 17 years ago there were rumours that the stray dogs were rounded up in the Pattaya area and taken to the crocodile farm. Supposed to have been stopped when someone found out the dogs were being eaten alive.

[geriatrickid]

I would be very hesitant to suggest to anyone that they shrug off a dog bite and not get treatment.

Thailand does not always follow WHO guidelines to the letter but they DO always give the vaccine...it is the immunoglobulin part that is often skipped. And Thai people are pretty well informed about the risk and quick to seek treatment. So the number of rabies deaths has to be put in the context of most bites receiving post-exposure course of vaccine.

Whatever campaigns there may have been in isolated localities, the overwhelming majority of street/stray dogs in Thailand have NOT been vaccinated.

I have seen someone die of rabies. It is a truly horrible death and well worth not taking even the smallest risk of undergoing.

I offer that the complications and adverse reaction associated with unnecessary injections present a risk too.

I do not in any way counsel against a rabies treatment in circumstances where it is warranted (type of attack, region, symptoms of animal etc.) However, there is no need to undertake such a treatment if bitten by a neighbour's dog in Hua Hin or Ao Nang, or Patong etc,. According to the article I referenced, it is not standard practice to administer rabies treatment in urban areas of Thailand, even though it is the recommended practice to do so.

Let's deal with actual rabies cases in Thailand, with actual transmission to humans. It does not make public health sense to undertake treatment if the experience is 0-4 cases per annum. If someone gets bitten by a stray monkey or dog up in rural Surin or Ubon,, then yes, you have a valid point. However, 95%+ of TVF readers live in urban regions like Bangkok, Pattaya, Chiang Mai which haven't recorded any rabies cases in years.

[Sheryl]

Again, the lack of recorded cases of human rabies has to be put in the context of the vast majority of people bitten by dogs receiving rabies prophylaxis.

It is not the case that rabies has been eradicated in Thailand or that it is impossible for dogs -- including in the locations mentioned -- being rabid.

(Also not the case that 95%+ TVF members live in major urban areas)

Then Thai MoPH continues to advise that people bitten by unvaccinated dogs (or dogs whose vaccination status cannot be ascertained) receive a course of vaccination and I concur. The odds of getting rabies are low, but it is 100% fatal.

[evadgib]

Can I please nip something in the bud?

a couple of months ago a farang husband of a friend of my wifes was bitten by a dog on Koh Samui where he used to run a couple of bars with his wife. i had only met him on a few occasions. he seemed like a good bloke. one of the few decent folk you meet in this place. he was only in his early 60`s, not a big drinker and in pretty good health.

He was in fact an alcoholic chain smoker in extremely bad health therefore the bite (2-3 months before death) may not have been entirely to blame.

HTH

Edited March 23, 2016 by evadgib

[loppylugs1]

2012 First contact with rabied dog : 5 shots on left arm, always joked im right handed so dont need the left one lol, Lupus like symptoms overnight for months

2013 bitten by dog 5 shots, one forced by a dozen nurses coming in a van to my house to force vaccinate me. Neurological problems began; memory loss, difficulties to communicate, limbs legs arms non responsive; tremors.

2014 bitten by dogs 3 shots, same troubles plus left arm paralyzed

2015 bitten by a dog 1 shot, starting getting suspicious just about getting over the last vaccines and recovering but left arm still not well

2016 bitten by a dog forced vaccination at hospital while I was semi conscious. After 3 months left arm got worse, then better now recovering.

I will never get vaccinated ever again

Hell,that's some dog biting.

Lived in India quite a few years,helped out at animal rescue,seemed it was rabies-a-go-go. Call went up when I went to local villages "whiteys here" to pick 'em up ,do not know if was the dogs name or me. One dog always remember got it by scruff of neck ,when pole otc,now that dog could twist its neck through 360 degrees ,caught me on the arm well and truly,partner doing the necessary at pts fainted all blood loss

Yes I certainly overdosed on rabies vacs,not as bad as you

[whiterussian]

The correct immediate first aid is to wash the bite wound with soap and water, then put iodine on the bite; that done, I went to the local hospital.

I'd go for Hydrogen Peroxide as the first step, then iodine... (ignore the crazy ranting in the vid btw!)

the video is very misleading, see http://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/science-questions/question115.htm

The guy is a nutcase, but only vid I could find of H202 on a bite.

From the net:

Dr. Nichol:

Good question. The answer is no. Do not use hydrogen peroxide. Here is why.

This stuff works because it breaks down degenerate organic matter by oxidation, hence the foaming-in other words those are oxygen bubbles. But while it’s doing that it’s also harsh on the normal tissue in the wound.

However, I'd want to nuke a bite as fast as possible... as far as I know H202 is the most harsh (oxidation is pdq) - after which iodine etc can be put on. I read this on a prepper site long ago, and I'm no expert...

http://www.theprepperjournal.com/2016/01/02/prepper-medical-myths-that-drive-me-nuts/

My background is a couple of decades in trauma intensive care nursing... For deep and superficial wounds I use 3% hydrogen peroxide for the first cleaning. Bubbles and does not hurt. Great to push out debris but then flush well with saline as it will retard healing. However debris left inside the body will cause sepsis and death.

Edited March 23, 2016 by whiterussian

[Catoni]

2012 First contact with rabied dog : 5 shots on left arm, always joked im right handed so dont need the left one lol, Lupus like symptoms overnight for months

2013 bitten by dog 5 shots, one forced by a dozen nurses coming in a van to my house to force vaccinate me. Neurological problems began; memory loss, difficulties to communicate, limbs legs arms non responsive; tremors.

2014 bitten by dogs 3 shots, same troubles plus left arm paralyzed

2015 bitten by a dog 1 shot, starting getting suspicious just about getting over the last vaccines and recovering but left arm still not well

2016 bitten by a dog forced vaccination at hospital while I was semi conscious. After 3 months left arm got worse, then better now recovering.

I will never get vaccinated ever again

All our kids have had many vaccinations...... as have me....long with the rabies vaccinations. No symptoms of anything.

You do know I hope that your symptoms can be brought on by catching something else from the dog, or from some other thing your body picked up.. There are a variety of things you could have gotten, with none of them related to your rabies shots.

Or are you getting some third world poorly trained nurse that doesn't know what their doing, and injecting you in a nerve, and not in the proper muscle or using dirty needles ? ?

People at the Travel Clinic where I go, get rabies vaccine injections every day... with no ill effect.

Children in my part of the world ..by law.... must get certain vaccinations against disease in order to attend school..... and it is the law to attend school.

Vaccines do much more good than any possible bad.. Lot's of people alive today because of vaccines.

Do you know what it is like to die from Rabies ? ? ? Read about it.

[MiKT]

All dogs should have a collar with the owner's contact number and address . If the dog is found running loose in a soi the owner can be contacted and the incident recorded . If it happens a second time a fine to be paid by the owner . Third time the dog is destroyed .

Any dog without i.d. should be placed in a pound for a short period of time and if claimed the owner pays a fine . If the dog is not claimed it is destroyed . A dog warden to patrol the sois and to deal with any public complaints .

I think also it would be a viable business for whoever runs it . A good opportunity to make money is not normally missed by the Thai people .

Could it really be that simple or have I missed something ?

It is that simple, but what you seem to have missed is that you are living in the wrong country if you think it's ever going to happen.

[MiKT]

2012 First contact with rabied dog : 5 shots on left arm, always joked im right handed so dont need the left one lol, Lupus like symptoms overnight for months

2013 bitten by dog 5 shots, one forced by a dozen nurses coming in a van to my house to force vaccinate me. Neurological problems began; memory loss, difficulties to communicate, limbs legs arms non responsive; tremors.

2014 bitten by dogs 3 shots, same troubles plus left arm paralyzed

2015 bitten by a dog 1 shot, starting getting suspicious just about getting over the last vaccines and recovering but left arm still not well

2016 bitten by a dog forced vaccination at hospital while I was semi conscious. After 3 months left arm got worse, then better now recovering.

I will never get vaccinated ever again

Would you care to elaborate on:

1. Where you met-up with all these rabid dogs?

2. What is it you do to keep getting bitten by dogs so many times, it can't just be coincidence?

3. Are you a vet?

[loppylugs1]

2012 First contact with rabied dog : 5 shots on left arm, always joked im right handed so dont need the left one lol, Lupus like symptoms overnight for months

2013 bitten by dog 5 shots, one forced by a dozen nurses coming in a van to my house to force vaccinate me. Neurological problems began; memory loss, difficulties to communicate, limbs legs arms non responsive; tremors.

2014 bitten by dogs 3 shots, same troubles plus left arm paralyzed

2015 bitten by a dog 1 shot, starting getting suspicious just about getting over the last vaccines and recovering but left arm still not well

2016 bitten by a dog forced vaccination at hospital while I was semi conscious. After 3 months left arm got worse, then better now recovering.

I will never get vaccinated ever again

Would you care to elaborate on:

1. Where you met-up with all these rabid dogs?

2. What is it you do to keep getting bitten by dogs so many times, it can't just be coincidence?

3. Are you a vet?

Never been bitten on the arse must be a blessing there ,least he saw them coming

[geriatrickid]

One evening after school hours before it got dark when I was teaching, I was working out in the school exercise yard, a couple of people drew up next to me and let this really huge dog out of their car, then

drove away. this beast then came towards me growling and baring it's teeth, it was going to attack me, I was terrified and shouted at a school employee who was working nearby. He shouted and chased it off

with a stick or something he had in his hand.

I immediately picked up two big lumps of concrete from near by, put one in my motorbike basket. kept the other one in my hand.

I then rode after the dog which was standing about 30 Mts away, hit it full on, did a U turn, took the second lump of concrete, again rode towards the dog, hit it again, how I loved getting my revenge without having

to worry if I would need to take on six dogs.

Yet another self-congratulatory sicko who has just admitted breaking the law on animal cruelty in Thailand.

It never touched you and it was standing 30m away, what a brave hero you are not.

Yes, I'm proud of what I did, that dog was going to attack me, and if it was not for someone nearby, I would have been at least maimed.

Anyone, man or beast who tries to attack me or even threaten me with injury or violence will have to take the consequences, if that makes

me a sicko, then that is what I am.

Now run along and get back to hiding behind your keyboard.

This is not the behaviour of a well adjusted person. Please discuss your behaviour with a mental health professional. He or she will explain to you why the behaviour is unacceptable. A course of remedial action can then be considered.

[NoshowJones]

One evening after school hours before it got dark when I was teaching, I was working out in the school exercise yard, a couple of people drew up next to me and let this really huge dog out of their car, then

drove away. this beast then came towards me growling and baring it's teeth, it was going to attack me, I was terrified and shouted at a school employee who was working nearby. He shouted and chased it off

with a stick or something he had in his hand.

I immediately picked up two big lumps of concrete from near by, put one in my motorbike basket. kept the other one in my hand.

I then rode after the dog which was standing about 30 Mts away, hit it full on, did a U turn, took the second lump of concrete, again rode towards the dog, hit it again, how I loved getting my revenge without having

to worry if I would need to take on six dogs.

Yet another self-congratulatory sicko who has just admitted breaking the law on animal cruelty in Thailand.

It never touched you and it was standing 30m away, what a brave hero you are not.

Yes, I'm proud of what I did, that dog was going to attack me, and if it was not for someone nearby, I would have been at least maimed.

Anyone, man or beast who tries to attack me or even threaten me with injury or violence will have to take the consequences, if that makes

me a sicko, then that is what I am.

Now run along and get back to hiding behind your keyboard.

This is not the behaviour of a well adjusted person. Please discuss your behaviour with a mental health professional. He or she will explain to you why the behaviour is unacceptable. A course of remedial action can then be considered.

I take it you are referring to me, ok, I will ask you. Someone saves you from a possible mauling by a very large dog. the dog is standing about thirty mts

away, the only way out is on a narrow path where the dog is waiting.

Do you wait until the dogs owners return to pick it up which will be after dark maybe hours later? There was a strong possibility that the dog would have attacked me if I

had attempted to ride past it, I got in there first and made sure it could not attack me, and just like it was a human, I made sure it did not get back up

for obvious reasons.

[pedro01]

2012 First contact with rabied dog : 5 shots on left arm, always joked im right handed so dont need the left one lol, Lupus like symptoms overnight for months

2013 bitten by dog 5 shots, one forced by a dozen nurses coming in a van to my house to force vaccinate me. Neurological problems began; memory loss, difficulties to communicate, limbs legs arms non responsive; tremors.

2014 bitten by dogs 3 shots, same troubles plus left arm paralyzed

2015 bitten by a dog 1 shot, starting getting suspicious just about getting over the last vaccines and recovering but left arm still not well

2016 bitten by a dog forced vaccination at hospital while I was semi conscious. After 3 months left arm got worse, then better now recovering.

I will never get vaccinated ever again

Would you care to elaborate on:

1. Where you met-up with all these rabid dogs?

2. What is it you do to keep getting bitten by dogs so many times, it can't just be coincidence?

3. Are you a vet?

The amount if times he's been bitten, he may well be a leg of lamb.

[roberta]

I just found this thread, so I ask forgiveness if any reader finds my contribution repetitive.

About ten days ago I was bitten by a dog while out walking for exercise. The dog came up silently behind me, bit me low on my leg and then ran back the way it had come. I had a wound bleeding copiously, massive swelling, and felt faint and vertiginous. My breathing was affected. I had to walk nearly three kilometers in that condition to the nearest clinic, and I barely made it. I had all the shots previously mentioned, and antibiotic, but the wound still became infected and now I'm on another course of antibiotics, and at last my leg is healing.

I am a woman of almost 70 years, and not strong enough to beat a dog with a stick. I need to take exercise daily for health reasons, and I do so by brisk walking. If I am to continue this essential practice I must find a way to protect myself from further canine attacks. In the area where I was walking (and habitually walk) there are no stones to pick up, and I probably could not do that anyway, and my arm is not strong enough to throw anything heavy. I shall keep a sharp lookout behind me in future, but if a dog starts to follow me, what should I do? Trying to run away would be futile and probably only encourage the beast. I have not been much afraid of dogs in the past, and have walked through packs of dogs in a soi many times without problems, so I don't think the "smell of fear" was the problem. I cannot give up walking, but there are dogs everywhere I go, and now I am certainly terrified of encountering another vicious one without any form of protection.

Does anyone have any advice for me? In any case, I would like to purchase some kind of repellent, such as pepper spray, as I could operate that even with my limited strength. Has anyone been able to purchase it in Bangkok? If so, where? Or a taser? Are they available anywhere?

[lopburi3]

Carry a simple tree branch - or walking stick - dogs know and will avoid anyone having such. Almost all Thai walkers carry such so it is very common.

[Sheryl]

Yes. You do not need to be strong enough to beat a dog with a stick, just have one to wave menacingly. A light bamboo stick works fine.

And for stones need to throw just 1 or 2 in the dog's direction so carry a couple with you. Doesn't matter if you miss by a long ways.

Dogs are used to being stoned and hit with sticks here (alas ) so this is usually all it takes to scare them off.

Also remember not to feel fear. Try for anger as it is fairly easy to convert fear to anger, easier than to just try to not feel fear. While fear provokes dog attacks, anger sends them fleeing. They can sense both very accurately.

Years ago I was walking my Chihuahua in the town and a very large Soi dog tried to attack him. I was so outraged and protective of my dog that I charged at him and beat him with my (not at all heavy) handbag. As I realized afterwards the dog was easily large enough to have done me very serious harm...but he ran off with his tail between his legs. Because all he sensed from me was aggression.

[roberta]

I am sorry but I don't think that brandishing a stick is likely to work. The dog was not simply biting the first available person; it seemed to target me and attacked with stealth and cunning. As soon as it had delivered the bite it ran back whence it had come. I even have a suspicion that it might have been a trained dog and commanded by its master to attack me. There are people in that area who have given me the impression of being very hostile to having strangers, and especially foreigners walking through. It is a public pathway for both pedestrians and bicycles, but many of the residents treat it as an extension of their own property and often obstruct the way with their children, motorbikes, dogs, laundry, chickens, etc.

I shall not dare to walk there again unless I have some protective device with me in which I can feel some confidence. I take it that a firearm is totally out of the question?

[Sheryl]

A very bad idea, certainly. On many levels.

If the dog targeted you specifically with stealth, whether on its own or at someone's behest, better to find an alternative route. While dogs barking and coming towards you will happen in many places (and respond to the previously mentioned measures), what you describe is not that common.

[balo]

You could always try an anti dog whistle.

They produce a sound in a frequency that only dogs can hear and they don't like it so they run away .

[roberta]

You could always try an anti dog whistle.

They produce a sound in a frequency that only dogs can hear and they don't like it so they run away .

Worth trying, perhaps. But where could one be purchased, may I ask?

[roberta]

A very bad idea, certainly. On many levels.

If the dog targeted you specifically with stealth, whether on its own or at someone's behest, better to find an alternative route. While dogs barking and coming towards you will happen in many places (and respond to the previously mentioned measures), what you describe is not that common.

More difficult than it might appear, unfortunately. It is a linear path, beside a canal. The only alternative would be to walk alongside the highway, with six lanes of heavy traffic, breathing toxic fumes all the way.

The dog certainly did not come toward me. It crept up behind me. I knew nothing about it until I felt the infernal thing bite me. By that time the animal was already quite far away. I shall surely be looking over my shoulder in future, but would still be powerless to defend myself. I just don't think a determined aggressor like that would be frightened of a stick.

[Ireland32]

I am sorry but I don't think that brandishing a stick is likely to work. The dog was not simply biting the first available person; it seemed to target me and attacked with stealth and cunning. As soon as it had delivered the bite it ran back whence it had come. I even have a suspicion that it might have been a trained dog and commanded by its master to attack me. There are people in that area who have given me the impression of being very hostile to having strangers, and especially foreigners walking through. It is a public pathway for both pedestrians and bicycles, but many of the residents treat it as an extension of their own property and often obstruct the way with their children, motorbikes, dogs, laundry, chickens, etc.

I shall not dare to walk there again unless I have some protective device with me in which I can feel some confidence. I take it that a firearm is totally out of the question?

Stun Gun , Problem Solved

[Spaniel]

Sorry to hear about your problem with the dog. I walk daily too for exercise and am always on the lookout for unfriendly dogs. I walk in our housing compound and security does a good job of keeping out the strays but I was bit last year by a neighbors dog! I think this is what you need, pepper spray, but I'm not sure if you can purchase it here in Thailand. I got this one in the USA. I think one of those stun guns, although effective, might be a bit to unwieldy for you. Until you can find something better I would do as already suggested, and at least carry stick, A thin piece of bamboo about 1 meter long would be great.

[Kwasaki]

A friend has one of these, no other dogs within sight.

[roberta]

The suggestions so far seem to be pepper spray or a stun gun.

I had never heard of stun guns before, but I have investigated and see that there are many types. The small compact ones would not be suitable as I would have to let the dog get very close to me before I could use it. It would probably bite me on the hands or even face, and that would be far worse. But the " cattle prod" style looks interesting. I could poke the dog with that and hope to knock it out for long enough that I could reach safety. I think tasers are too complex and difficult to deploy, although I like the longer range. The farther I can stay away from the dog the better I like it. But if I could buy a cattle prod somewhere I would try it first.

Pepper spray (or Mace, as it is sometimes called) would be another way. Easier to carry, and no worry about keeping the battery charged. But perhaps less effective. I really don't know. All academic because I cannot find it here, and all retailers on Ebay say they cannot ship it outside the continental USA, due to Federal law.

But all of the above is of little use unless I can actually obtain one or another of these devices here in Thailand. I cannot imagine where I would buy one, and my pitiful Thai language skills are not up to the task of asking around among the various sellers on the street.

[BKKdreaming]

What do Thai mailmen use ?

Mace - pepper spray is available in BKK , but not sure if its "legal"

[cumgranosalum]

dogs spread diseases....the rabies risk has been covered here.

however they are a constant problem in Thailand - it is tempting to suggest a cul, but a permenant solution is to make sure they don't have a food supply.

the dogs live of rubbish and food left for them by well-meaning but sadly misinformed people ...many of whom feel they gain merit by feeding the dogs - they seem oblivious to the amount of merit they lose by allowing the dog to pass on rabies to fellow creatures and us humans.

In a society with proper rubbish disposal and no-one leaving food out will soon see a reduction in the amount of dogs about.

[Kwasaki]

Sad and distressing for some people here, many here would be better off to find another place and there are places to either live or walk if they feel they are unable to defend themselves and are so threaten.

Our immediate village surrounding area is reasonably safe from dogs because of it being visited by tourists.

Complaining many would say is useless but reporting by Thais and tourists has taken effect here by some degree.

I stated on post before because of complaints the local gov got people to come and round up all dogs without collars and l for one have noticed the difference.

Report.....Report......Report.....Complain....Complain......Complain......about these things which insult the name dog or get a Thai friend who has a legal gun licence to shoot the dirty biting 4 legged <deleted> machines.

[evadgib]

A jiff lemon or kiddies water pistol full of vinegar guarantees a 4m exclusion zone as soon as a squirt lands near mouth, nose or eyes.

Harmless, legal, prevents further trips to A & E and readily available at your nearest supermarket.

HTH

Edited April 7, 2016 by evadgib