Off to the motor Show

[Ace of Pop]

Yes shame about the 330 ActiveHybrid as that was the one i was looking at with the 3 litre Twin Turbo engine plus electric giving well over 300+ bhp for a reasonable price, not interested in the 2 litre 330e plug in either

I do feel that Benz and BMW seem to change their lineup in terms of engines quite a bit, at least on the more 'niche' engines part. Last Year Benz brought the Diesel Hybrid C300, now not anymore available and it is a petrol plug in instead.

If i am not mistaken BMW just updated the 328i with the 330i mentioned....now not available anymore and from what i see not available engine choice in other models too. Also, not to long ago I believe there was a 220i, now only 218i.

So it seems if you want some decent performance you need to go the Hybrid way....for both! kinda funny....

5.99 for the M2 seems very steep though....great car...but the price is hard to digest.

I bought the 220i when they imported them last year, very capable car with reasonable performance. This year they have switched to the slightly cheaper but woefully underpowered 218i.

Get a Civic Turbo for 1.2 Mil then ,aint much difference fom my Mrs 2 benz door thing , part from ego

[burgerking]

Who goes there for the cars....

[ChesneyHawkes]

Who goes there for the cars....

People who want to buy cars, hence the reason why I go there before the pretties and zoom lensed muppets get in the way.

[Pdaz]

Never thought I actually be considering a Merc over a BMW but 2mil Baht is a helluva difference. The A45 has become a performance bargain in Thai terms.. Grey Market Golf R is similar price, New Audi TTS can't match the performance and no TTRS in view. Porsche Cayman is 7 Mil for 2.7 entry model. Subaru WRX and Mitsu are past it. What else with around 300hp is available in this market ? 8ugger all ...

Meanwhile in The US you can buy an M2 for US52K or a GT4 for US64K...... Sickening

Well, remove the pricing difference of imported cars and you would singlehandedly decimate the car industry here, create huge unemployment and the economy would tank.

I'd like to know how that works. As I understand it, there are no "Thai" car manufacturers so no "Thai" car industry as such. There are only foreign car companies that have factories in Thailand to produce cars ( Toyota, Honda etc ) that I thought were mostly for export ? Surely offering a niche market sports car like a Caterham Seven or even the BMW M2 at a lower price would have very little effect on the car market and may even stimulate sales by offering middle class consumers a choice ?

Okay I understand the reasons for low tax on 2 door base model pick-ups and having cheap eco-cars for first time buyers. But your basic family man who needs a Thai assembled Fortuna for 1.6 mil isn't going to buy an M2 even if they were available for 2.9 mil.. He may like the car but he can't get his three kids, wife, mother-in-law and maid in there.. Sure the same could be said for a Camry/Accord for less than 2mil compared to a similar sized 5 series BM or E class Merc... They may be able to afford 1.8 mil for the Jap but can't stretch to 3 mil for the Jerry.

My other feeling is that having very high taxation of up to 300% kills aspiration because it makes "nice" cars so out of reach. The guy that would probably work harder to save and reward himself with a BMW for an extra million just doesn't bother cos he know he can never save the extra 3 million required. I'm not expecting prices to be the same as the US or Europe but if say a 911 or an M3 was 20, 25 or even 30% more expensive than the West I would have bought one by now. So I'm sure would a lot of Thais.. But not so many that Toyota could no longer sell Camrys..

I'd like the reasoning explained to me as I really can't see how making sports sedans and larger capacity multi cylinder engined cars cheaper would ruin the Thai car market. Unless of course there was no tax and a BMW 320i was the same price as a Accord. But then I'm sure brainwashed Thais would still buy the bloody Honda.... 555 To my mind taxing "luxuries" is just an easy revenue gathering exercise.. They don't have the systems in place to tax the populations income reliably so banging import taxes on designer goods, wines, watches and cars is easier..

[ChesneyHawkes]

Never thought I actually be considering a Merc over a BMW but 2mil Baht is a helluva difference. The A45 has become a performance bargain in Thai terms.. Grey Market Golf R is similar price, New Audi TTS can't match the performance and no TTRS in view. Porsche Cayman is 7 Mil for 2.7 entry model. Subaru WRX and Mitsu are past it. What else with around 300hp is available in this market ? 8ugger all ...

Meanwhile in The US you can buy an M2 for US52K or a GT4 for US64K...... Sickening

Well, remove the pricing difference of imported cars and you would singlehandedly decimate the car industry here, create huge unemployment and the economy would tank.

I'd like to know how that works. As I understand it, there are no "Thai" car manufacturers so no "Thai" car industry as such. There are only foreign car companies that have factories in Thailand to produce cars ( Toyota, Honda etc ) that I thought were mostly for export ? Surely offering a niche market sports car like a Caterham Seven or even the BMW M2 at a lower price would have very little effect on the car market and may even stimulate sales by offering middle class consumers a choice ?

Okay I understand the reasons for low tax on 2 door base model pick-ups and having cheap eco-cars for first time buyers. But your basic family man who needs a Thai assembled Fortuna for 1.6 mil isn't going to buy an M2 even if they were available for 2.9 mil.. He may like the car but he can't get his three kids, wife, mother-in-law and maid in there.. Sure the same could be said for a Camry/Accord for less than 2mil compared to a similar sized 5 series BM or E class Merc... They may be able to afford 1.8 mil for the Jap but can't stretch to 3 mil for the Jerry.

My other feeling is that having very high taxation of up to 300% kills aspiration because it makes "nice" cars so out of reach. The guy that would probably work harder to save and reward himself with a BMW for an extra million just doesn't bother cos he know he can never save the extra 3 million required. I'm not expecting prices to be the same as the US or Europe but if say a 911 or an M3 was 20, 25 or even 30% more expensive than the West I would have bought one by now. So I'm sure would a lot of Thais.. But not so many that Toyota could no longer sell Camrys..

I'd like the reasoning explained to me as I really can't see how making sports sedans and larger capacity multi cylinder engined cars cheaper would ruin the Thai car market. Unless of course there was no tax and a BMW 320i was the same price as a Accord. But then I'm sure brainwashed Thais would still buy the bloody Honda.... 555 To my mind taxing "luxuries" is just an easy revenue gathering exercise.. They don't have the systems in place to tax the populations income reliably so banging import taxes on designer goods, wines, watches and cars is easier..

How would you define what is and what isn't a sports sedan or larger capacity multi cylinder engined car? If we said two door for sports sedans I guarantee you there'll be influx so huge that anything remotely similar from a car locally manufactured or assembled would plummet in sales.

The government want people to buy cars made here, they want the companies to build the cars here to create jobs, they want to export not import. If Porsche et al wanted to build here I'm sure they wouldn't care less about taxes anymore because they are creating opportunities for Thais.

My personal belief has been it should be a free market and they should not prevent competition, we do local assemblers no favours by allowing them to not feel the pressure of cars built overseas in terms of quality and efficiency. That said, if BMWs and Mercs suddenly become available at prices 15-20% more than the equivalent Toyota/Honda I'm pretty certain they would take almost all the business and kill off the Japanese manufacturers here. It would also encourage these companies to set up shop in places like Vietnam or anywhere else with lower skilled labour costs as there wouldn't be any advantage to building in Thailand.

I'm not gonna write an essay about this topic but put simple there isn't any motivation to jeopardize a key segment of business for the country, and the specific categories you've highlight for tax deductions aren't clearly defined enough for any country to implement. And could you imagine the hell it would create from a political standpoint? Oh, discounts for expensive cars, huge rich/poor divide but the wealthy can get some additional tax breaks. The poor can get them too, but oh that's right you can't afford a Camry so there's no chance of a 520d for you even though we've waived huge chunks of import duties and taxes.

Edited April 2, 2016 by ChesneyHawkes

[JaseTheBass]

Not everyone wants a BMW or a Merc. BMW in particular are overrated especially in Europe/US where more can be had for less.

[ChesneyHawkes]

Let's take a 1.8m Camry and a 3.5m 5 Series. If suddenly the price on the 5 series was 2m do you think that most Thais would ignore the BMW? I seriesly doubt it. You may still sell a lot more Camrys because there's a 300k price difference, but the jump in BMW sales could easily knock down Toyota sales by 5%. Over time things would stabalise but I really think you'd collapse a key Thai industry. Remember they're not preventing the Germans from building their cars here. And if Germany wanted an FTA with Thailand they could have it, though if they did that the German brands would probably shutter their factories there over time.

Thailand employs in excess of 500k people in the automotive industry. That number alone says they aren't going to change a thing. They don't want to compete, they do want to protect what hey we got.

[canthai55]

Thailand employs in excess of 500k people in the automotive industry. That number alone says they aren't going to change a thing. They don't want to compete, they do want to protect what hey we got.

A lesson which was sorely learned by people in North America. Allow multi nationals to move to where labour is cheap, close factories, layoff workers.

[Pdaz]

Never thought I actually be considering a Merc over a BMW but 2mil Baht is a helluva difference. The A45 has become a performance bargain in Thai terms.. Grey Market Golf R is similar price, New Audi TTS can't match the performance and no TTRS in view. Porsche Cayman is 7 Mil for 2.7 entry model. Subaru WRX and Mitsu are past it. What else with around 300hp is available in this market ? 8ugger all ...

Meanwhile in The US you can buy an M2 for US52K or a GT4 for US64K...... Sickening

Well, remove the pricing difference of imported cars and you would singlehandedly decimate the car industry here, create huge unemployment and the economy would tank.

I'd like to know how that works. As I understand it, there are no "Thai" car manufacturers so no "Thai" car industry as such. There are only foreign car companies that have factories in Thailand to produce cars ( Toyota, Honda etc ) that I thought were mostly for export ? Surely offering a niche market sports car like a Caterham Seven or even the BMW M2 at a lower price would have very little effect on the car market and may even stimulate sales by offering middle class consumers a choice ?

Okay I understand the reasons for low tax on 2 door base model pick-ups and having cheap eco-cars for first time buyers. But your basic family man who needs a Thai assembled Fortuna for 1.6 mil isn't going to buy an M2 even if they were available for 2.9 mil.. He may like the car but he can't get his three kids, wife, mother-in-law and maid in there.. Sure the same could be said for a Camry/Accord for less than 2mil compared to a similar sized 5 series BM or E class Merc... They may be able to afford 1.8 mil for the Jap but can't stretch to 3 mil for the Jerry.

My other feeling is that having very high taxation of up to 300% kills aspiration because it makes "nice" cars so out of reach. The guy that would probably work harder to save and reward himself with a BMW for an extra million just doesn't bother cos he know he can never save the extra 3 million required. I'm not expecting prices to be the same as the US or Europe but if say a 911 or an M3 was 20, 25 or even 30% more expensive than the West I would have bought one by now. So I'm sure would a lot of Thais.. But not so many that Toyota could no longer sell Camrys..

I'd like the reasoning explained to me as I really can't see how making sports sedans and larger capacity multi cylinder engined cars cheaper would ruin the Thai car market. Unless of course there was no tax and a BMW 320i was the same price as a Accord. But then I'm sure brainwashed Thais would still buy the bloody Honda.... 555 To my mind taxing "luxuries" is just an easy revenue gathering exercise.. They don't have the systems in place to tax the populations income reliably so banging import taxes on designer goods, wines, watches and cars is easier..

How would you define what is and what isn't a sports sedan or larger capacity multi cylinder engined car? If we said two door for sports sedans I guarantee you there'll be influx so huge that anything remotely similar from a car locally manufactured or assembled would plummet in sales.

The government want people to buy cars made here, they want the companies to build the cars here to create jobs, they want to export not import. If Porsche et al wanted to build here I'm sure they wouldn't care less about taxes anymore because they are creating opportunities for Thais.

My personal belief has been it should be a free market and they should not prevent competition, we do local assemblers no favours by allowing them to not feel the pressure of cars built overseas in terms of quality and efficiency. That said, if BMWs and Mercs suddenly become available at prices 15-20% more than the equivalent Toyota/Honda I'm pretty certain they would take almost all the business and kill off the Japanese manufacturers here. It would also encourage these companies to set up shop in places like Vietnam or anywhere else with lower skilled labour costs as there wouldn't be any advantage to building in Thailand.

I'm not gonna write an essay about this topic but put simple there isn't any motivation to jeopardize a key segment of business for the country, and the specific categories you've highlight for tax deductions aren't clearly defined enough for any country to implement. And could you imagine the hell it would create from a political standpoint? Oh, discounts for expensive cars, huge rich/poor divide but the wealthy can get some additional tax breaks. The poor can get them too, but oh that's right you can't afford a Camry so there's no chance of a 520d for you even though we've waived huge chunks of import duties and taxes.

Thanks for your reply. I too would expect a free market to level out over time. Other free markets show that people don't always choose cars purely based on price or practicality.. Some forgo practicality because they love sports cars others are forced to buy a family SUV as a two door wouldn't suit their family members. Thailand does need to gradually get out of the protectionism rut is in by offering more choice for the middle class and the aspirational. There are many models that are just not offered here, this includes those companies that manufacture here Honda, Ford, Toyota etc. Many of my Thai friends are frustrated with the lack of choice (not just in the auto sector) and annoyed at having to pay much higher prices than overseas. You only have to read some of the Thai language forums to see their dismay when a new RS Ford or Honda Type R is released overseas, knowing it will never come here at a reasonable price. Obviously the internet and overseas travel has opened their eyes. Anyone going to Singapore, US or Europe is given a wish list by friends for stuff they'd like carried back. It's not just farangs that fill their suitcases on trips to the old country. Cars have come a long way since I was a teen but at least I was able to buy a Mini cooper, Escort Mexico or even a Mitsu Starion if I wanted... All Thai lads have to drool over is a poxy Toyota Vios with a pin stripe and TRD spoiler...

As for upsetting the proletariat with "tax cuts" for the rich... I don't think that it would be seen that way, many people would rejoice at the chance of second hand imported cars being available at a lower price..

I agree there is no incentive for change though.. The filthy rich can get anything they want ( Just check out the rare high end luxury cars available in BKK) and there aren't enough middle class voters to push for change.. Shame.. After close to 20 yrs here the only thing that I can honestly say that bothers me is having such a poor line-up of cars available under 5m baht oh well