Debt

[paulsmithson]

I am hoping to retire to Thailand in two years time and have been avidly researching the visa requirements.

I am satisfied that I could meet the requirments for a visa but have only two worries.

Following the break up of my marriage I have debts of almost £50,000 in the UK and I am faced with the choice of either working till I die in the UK or making a trivial offer of repayment leaving me with sufficient pension to live out my life in Thailand

Will civil debt in the UK be recoverable from monies I can bring to Thailand and deposit in an Thai bank?

Will the Thai immigration become aware of such debts and refuse me a retirement visa on account of them.

These debts were not fraudulently acquired rather caused by the trauma of divorce.

[Casanundra]

Here is an important point to ponder:

Unless you specifically give permission under the governance of the UK data protection act DPA 1998 or under articles 7 and 8 of the EU Data Protection Directive 95/46/EC then the Thai's should never get to know about your debts or financial position.

If they do and you have not provided consent then you have sufficient legal grounds to pursue for damages providing of course you can prove who it was that released such sensitive personal information.

Hope that helps.

Edited October 30, 2006 by Casanundra

[GuestHouse]

How old are you? Have you any children, how old are they?

I ask because these two points are hugely important in deciding the best advice.

Edited October 30, 2006 by GuestHouse

[paulsmithson]

How old are you? Have you any children, how old are they?

I ask because these two points are hugely important in deciding the best advice.

I am 61 years old. No children. I will have a small private pension untill the state pension kicks in at 65.

[GuestHouse]

The problem I see then is how to legally get around your debt problems, while at the same time maintianing enough capital to establish yourself in Thailand.

Keep in mind the biggest single problem people face setting up in Thailand is under capitalization. Either they do not have enough funds to establish their life in Thailand and/or they do not have enough income from overseas to support them in Thailand.

Debt back home (an perhaps more importantly finacial liabilities) is a real problem if it is not legally resolved, because it can place you in two different risks:

A) The risk of assets you hold back home being seized - and with the assets the income.

The existance of unpaid debts or unresolved debts can prevent you from returning.

Two golden rules should be considered before you think of any other ways of getting around your debt.

Rule 1. "Never Take Any Money To Thailand That You Can't Afford To Loose"

Your assets need to be secure back home, taking them to Thailand for security is a very bad decision.

Rule 2. "Never Burn You Bridges"

We here a great deal about people moving to Thailand and having a great life - We hear very few accounts of failure. It would be a big mistake to think that failures do not occur. You absoutley need to be in the posistion where you can go home (at least for the first five of so years of your move over, to ensure you can fit in and that you can make a life in Thailand).

On top of that, recent divorce and debt are each on their own very bad reasons to make a move anywhere anmd are usually flagged as warnings to reconsider plans, or at least to take good stock before continuing with a plan.

I wish you the best of luck but think the starting point for your plans would be to talk to a debt councillor to see what it is you can do to sort out what I am sure are difficult problems.

A frank discussion with a councillor about each of the debts, and liabilities might offer some options you have not considered.

What ever you do, don't consider just dropping out as an option, it can be done, but it closes a lot of other doors that we all need to be there for us as we get older.

[Maizefarmer]

Paulsmithson

These are civil matters as opposed to criminal matters, and not withstanding someone may well come along and post a whole host of legal links and bits 'n pieces which will confuse the issue even more, my personal opinion is that:

a) it sounds like a "civil" matter and as such I just can't see anyway that Immigration would be in the least concerned about how much money you owe others. It is, to put it bluntly, none of their business.

the enforcement in Thailand of any "civil" judegement/proceedings issued in the Uk, would be close to impossible if you declined to go along with it. I would think there would be so many legal hoops & hurdles to jump through, no-one in the UK would be willing to throw money at a civil proceeding they had no garuntee of been able to enforce.

I any event, however looked at, I just can't see it been of any interest to Immigration.

What I will warn you about though is that the Thai banking system is not discreet or confidential - with just a persons full name it is possible to trace a persons account to which ever bank it is they use in Thailand.

To avoid been jumped on for encouraging readers how to conceal personal funds in Thailands bank, I shall not post the info here, but if you are interested, let me know and I will PM you how to go about it.

If you have a lump sum you may well wish to withdraw that in cash and move it elsewhere offshore (I say cash because you will need to sever any bank to bank link/papertrail to avoid it been traced) - and not Thailand, but some other suitable location (e.g. Singapore or Kuala Lumpar - both of which you can travel to and back to Thailand on the same day - and are safe modern world banking systems).

If you have a regular pension paid to you monthly, you would want to ensure that there is a solid firewall between the pension funds and any capital reserve you have i.e. no link at all - keep them completely seperated - and make sure that from the time of receiving to been spent thet do not inadeveratatnly cross paths (e.g. make sure you don't "accidently" transfer funds from one acount to the other on any occassion - that will immdeiatly provide a paper trail between the 2 accounts)

I sound like a dodgy soliciter!!

I am not expert in this, I am speaking from the personal experiance of seperating my Thai finances and off-shore finances, enabling acces to both at any time I wish, while ensuring that there is no link between the 2 - for no other reason than if things here in Thailand went "pear shaped", I and the family wouldn't be left standing with the clothes on our back

Quite how you could avoid any civil proceedings against your monthly pension, especialy if paid out of a pension fund in the UK/EU jurisdiction, I just wouldn't know. You may just have to accept they are going to target that.

PM me if you want advise about keeping money in a Thai account under your control but not in your name. And lastly, Innigration interest in your civil financial affairs in another country? - I go so far as to say "impossible": it's got nothing to do with them.

All the best

Tim

Tim

[tk47]

Isn't there a new system in operation in the UK for people with debts of more than 10k ? I am almost certain that the advice is free and they can sort all your debts into one and I believe they get large reductions on the amount of capital and interest you repay. Ant Citizens Advice cenntre can help and that way maybe you can come to Thailand without the threat of being chased or assets being threatened.

Must be worth considering?

[opothai]

i have a friend in spain

normal guy worked hard good credit rating the lot,

he woke up on the monday morning had enough, applied for and got £20,000 loan a credit card with 5,000 credit within thee weeks, sold all his belongings and b+ggered off to spain, that was 4 years ago, never paid any money back and now has a life working in spain with new bank accounts and credit.

when he's had enough he will come back to the uk, by that time his debt will be written off and no doubt will get housing benifit and dole money.

also one guy in pattaya, left the uk with debts in excess of 30,000 and has been back and forth for 2.5 years with no reprocussions.

it seems to me that the debts get forgotten after so long or the creditors just give up the chase.

so unless the laws have changed very recently i should not be unduly concerned, although i would not reccomend such actions.

[Noel]

Will the Thai immigration become aware of such debts and refuse me a retirement visa on account of them.

Absolutely not.

Provided you can meet the stipulated financial requirements for an extension on the grounds of retirement, you need not concern yourself.

If debt in your home country was an issue to Thai Immigration, they would doubtless ask questions to that effect when you apply.

They do not...

[smilingjim]

How old are you? Have you any children, how old are they?

I ask because these two points are hugely important in deciding the best advice.

I am 61 years old. No children. I will have a small private pension untill the state pension kicks in at 65.

Suggest you approach the organisations you have the debts with and tell them you have little income, no prospects of getting any more, and want to make an offer to repay as much as you can afford.

Normally they will send you a form to fill in which is basically a statement of your assets and liabilites and of your income and expenditure. You then offer to pay a weekly/monthly amount based on what you can afford. They are reluctant to take anyone to court who has little income/prospects and if he has made an offer to settle, as the judges in such cases tend to take the side of the debtor.

If in doubt about how to do this contact your local Citizens Advice Bureau.

[GuestHouse]

There is a clear distinction between debts and liabilities.

Debts to credit cards, banks even to lawyers can be dealt with by negotiation, bankruptcy etc.

But if the OP has a legal liability to, for example support his former wife with maintenance payments (and yes that can happen in the UK), then running away overseas is not going to help and may make things worse.

Under circumstances where he ran overseas and stopped paying maintenance his wife could very easily get a court order to snatch part or all of his private pension.

Running away from debt is seldom a good idea, we might find a few that have done so without consequences, but we don't hear from people who find them selves in deeper <deleted> for having tried to run away from their problems.

Get the help of debt councillors and or the Citizen's Advice Bereau.

[backflip]

Running away from your debts and your responsibilities. You are a real man.

[paulsmithson]

Running away from your debts and your responsibilities. You are a real man.

Yes I am a real man -worked all my life and owed nothing! Now the choice is between dying here or running off leaving debts that were incurred by my now ex wife=all to easily because the lenders threw money at her in thier greed for profit. i have no children and have no maintenence to pay so hurt no one except the financial institutions who lent us the money.

My taxes have been used for years to pay for a muticultural cesspit that i have always objected to and at the end of the day i am not buddhist---I belive that you pass this way just the one time.

[Beavis and Butthead]

Just fullfill your obligations then come here dude