Neighbours Encroaching

[romeijoe]

Hi all. My wife has had some land owned by her mother given to her, so we decided we would make some improvements to it, and there starts the problem. Which leads me to ask for some advise before i waste good money with a lawyer.

This land which isnt that large--approx 2 lai. needs fencing on the back and one side.

#1 problem at the back the people have claimed 2 mtrs of her land, plus havent yet paid for the land sold to them as was agreed yrs ago, they say they have no intention of doing so . how this occurred is beyond me ?

#2 problem the people on the side have encroached by 2 mtrs as well and to add to it have biult a home out of tin and wood that goes over their border and on her land, plus small structures along the border.

We have had the land surveyed and have informed them all we intend to close the access off as they use it to get to the road, this of course has led to all sorts of threats. the threats of course have been ignored as we dont wish to have things get any worse and end up with the usual death to farang.

Question is are we within our right asking for the land to be cleared and is there any way to have the land paid for or reclaim it.

personally i think we will get no satisfaction but really would like to know by law what can be done. Any ideas ?

[CharlieH]

Get the local land office to survey and replace the concrete pegs with the stamp in them to redefine the boundary as per the paperwork/title held.

Then after doing that, go see and talk to the Phuyai Baan, who should then easily sort out the neighbours.

Thats what I did, worked out just fine.

As a "ferang" stay right out of it, leave it to your wife, its always better to let 'Thais' deal with 'Thai' problems.

[romeijoe]

dont worry i learnt long ago (from the mistakes of others ) never involve yourself among thais if you want peace and quiet.

[fey]

have had a good deal of experience with this personally, its a common problem.

my suggestion is dont get involved personally. dont go the nice neighbor route, dont show your face at all, dont ask nicely.

hire a lawyer and follow up with a reputable construction crew (not locals)

the lawyer expense is just something your going to have to pay to get the land back. it will not get solved any other way and they will never agree on a compromise with you or your wife and give the land back without being forced to. they wont say ok, that sounds fair, well be reasonable, heres some berries from our yard. they wont become suddenly reasonable when faced with a plan that clearly states yhe boundry, and say you win, lets be good neighbors and forget the lawyer, ok?

once the boundry is secured have the construction crew build a tall solid fence so you can neither see through any cracks or over the top. then plant vines on your side of the fence so you can no longer see the fence.

good luck with it.

[aussiandrew]

Some sound advice given on this complex problem. I also know of flang when building a new fence/wall have come inside half a Metre and informed the neighbor not to hang anything on the fence. Good luck happy wife happy life.

[romeijoe]

Thanks for the advice. So far have already been doing as advised. Been here for a while just need the lawyers now

[gomangosteen]

dont wish to have things get any worse and end up with the usual death to farang.

When we lived in Sa Kaeo province there was what seemed a minor boundary dispute two properties away. Approx 2m wide, the length of three rai. Phuyai baan and man from orbortor office came to mediate, all agreed/settled, they went away thinking that was the end of it... later that evening the 'encroacher' liquored up decided he'd been humiliated etc, popped in on the neighbour and shot him in the head. Result - he was imprisoned, and as compensation his total land title (think it was eight rai) was handed over to the deceased's family; outcome him in prison and family homeless. He's a winner!!

My partner bought a section in a new subdivision here in Chanthaburi three years ago as a long term investment. When surrounding properties had fill brought in to raise the level for house builds, survey pegs covered and it was evident her area had got smaller on two of three sides... Had it re-surveyed and she has had 2.4m concrete posts put in at each corner and midway as well, 20x20cm posts in a concrete base, planted 1.4m deep, could eventually be part of a fence, but meantime, plain where the real boundaries are and ideally no future disagreements.

Edited March 25, 2016 by gomangosteen

[bark]

dont worry i learnt long ago (from the mistakes of others ) never involve yourself among thais if you want peace and quiet.

How can you sell someone land and close off access for them to get to the road. How do they get in and out ? I don't understand ?

[torpedo1970]

Recommending the same as one said before.

You already have the pegs from land office, now you just need to get your wife go see and talk to the Phuyai Baan, he will sort it out. as a fallang, stay out of it....

If you are going down the way of lawyers etc and get yourself involved, you are only setting yourself up for a pay-out. fallangs = you have to pay that is Thainess logic. Let the Thais deal with the Thais.

another issue is that the "plus havent yet paid for the land sold to them as was agreed yrs ago, they say they have no intention of doing so . how this occurred is beyond me ?" That is also something that you should leave for your wife to look at with a lawyer or the same thing can be discussed by Phuyai Baan's help. After years staying here it seems like the villages is still mostly "run" by help of the Phuyai Baan,

good luck

[romeijoe]

Easy really they have been using the back yard as short cut rather than go the long way round and using the road. Has been used for a long time as most of the neighborhood are family.

[callaway]

Had same issues. When the surveyor comes there you need to have the pui yai and any affected parties there when the survey is done. The surveyor will want them to sign off on it but if they don't then no problems. He will submit his paperwork and the land is yours. Our neighbours did not want to be there but we had village head there and cement markers put in. The main thing to consider is that you must put your fence on your property. Not on the boundary line as in western countries. We just come in 100mm and erected the block fence. They then have no right to hang anything or do anything to the wall as it is yours and is on your property. The other side of the property I wanted to render the wall near where I was putting in the pool but could not as it was not ours. I had to put in another wall around that side of the pool.

[Khun Robert]

dont worry i learnt long ago (from the mistakes of others ) never involve yourself among thais if you want peace and quiet.

What an advice. So his only option is to leave Thailand. There is no way to live in Thailand without getting involved with Thais.

I see more discussions ending up with threats to fight between Expats visiting bars then sitting relaxed and quiet with Thai friends in a bar.

At least other posters had good advice for OP. Hope it will work out well for you.

[little mary sunshine]

Sounds like trouble and a ghetto neighborhood .

I would sell and move.

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

Not that easy. If the land is not Chanote land they only need to have used your wife's land as a through road or to stay on for 1 year to have gained legal access rights. If it's chanote land this period is 10 years. If you are cutting of their access after selling to them the land you will have no chance of enforcing it in court. If there is a chanote in place invite the Dept. of land, the village head and the neighbors to a meeting. The Dept. can confirm the boundaries and the parties can come to an agreement. If this however fails you could be kept busy in court for years and the costs will be greater than the value of the land. The lesson to be learned is if you own land here, demarcate the boundaries with a clear fence and sort out any encroachment immediately.

[ggt]

end up with the usual death to farang.

This statement really says all one needs to know about Thailand...

One thing you should have learned by now...one can not reason with Thais...they are highly charged emotionally...and consider their false honor to be more important than life itself...

So, the moral of this story is...as unacceptable as it may sound...if you plan to continue to live there...throw a big party with lots of food and gifts for the neighbors...invite the local monks over and either let him broach the subject...or forget the whole thing and hope the Thai animosity that has been created by trying to regain 2 meters of land had not done irreparable damage...

Remember...you are not dealing with either fair or rational people...

[fey]

i would bet the current problem is partially tied to the dealing with the past sale of the small tract.

thats what happens is they sense something and will keep encroaching more and more depending on how you react. in the end you have nothing. does not matter how you respond, your screwed either way.

thus my rule of thumb to leave the immediate neighbors alone. i even wait if i hear them around and avoid them. rule of the day is 'problem avoidance'.

you can make those happy memories with ones that live a block away, plenty of those to do that with is what i always say.

in my experience they will always feel you out before encroaching and rarely just take blindly. its like a dog sniffing anothers arse.

so that hi and greeting stuff has some pretty primitive stuff attached to it underneath. pretty nasty primitive territorial stuff.

Edited March 25, 2016 by fey

[avocadowangnamkeouw]

In Thai Law the one encroaches with a building structure someone's else his property unintentionally, can be required to pay rent, but the structure cannot be removed until it is not suitable to serve its purpose

[louse1953]

have had a good deal of experience with this personally, its a common problem.

my suggestion is dont get involved personally. dont go the nice neighbor route, dont show your face at all, dont ask nicely.

hire a lawyer and follow up with a reputable construction crew (not locals)

the lawyer expense is just something your going to have to pay to get the land back. it will not get solved any other way and they will never agree on a compromise with you or your wife and give the land back without being forced to. they wont say ok, that sounds fair, well be reasonable, heres some berries from our yard. they wont become suddenly reasonable when faced with a plan that clearly states yhe boundry, and say you win, lets be good neighbors and forget the lawyer, ok?

once the boundry is secured have the construction crew build a tall solid fence so you can neither see through any cracks or over the top. then plant vines on your side of the fence so you can no longer see the fence.

good luck with it.

I always wondered why Thais built great big walls on a property years before any house construction.Now i know.

[louse1953]

end up with the usual death to farang.

This statement really says all one needs to know about Thailand...

One thing you should have learned by now...one can not reason with Thais...they are highly charged emotionally...and consider their false honor to be more important than life itself...

So, the moral of this story is...as unacceptable as it may sound...if you plan to continue to live there...throw a big party with lots of food and gifts for the neighbors...invite the local monks over and either let him broach the subject...or forget the whole thing and hope the Thai animosity that has been created by trying to regain 2 meters of land had not done irreparable damage...

Remember...you are not dealing with either fair or rational people...

Rubbish.

[ggt]

end up with the usual death to farang.

This statement really says all one needs to know about Thailand...

One thing you should have learned by now...one can not reason with Thais...they are highly charged emotionally...and consider their false honor to be more important than life itself...

So, the moral of this story is...as unacceptable as it may sound...if you plan to continue to live there...throw a big party with lots of food and gifts for the neighbors...invite the local monks over and either let him broach the subject...or forget the whole thing and hope the Thai animosity that has been created by trying to regain 2 meters of land had not done irreparable damage...

Remember...you are not dealing with either fair or rational people...

Rubbish.

What is you Non-rubbish contribution dear?

[blackcab]

In Thai Law the one encroaches with a building structure someone's else his property unintentionally, can be required to pay rent, but the structure cannot be removed until it is not suitable to serve its purpose

Who told you that?

[mike324]

In Thai Law the one encroaches with a building structure someone's else his property unintentionally, can be required to pay rent, but the structure cannot be removed until it is not suitable to serve its purpose

Who told you that?

In Thailand there is a law about squatting and land usage. Something like if the person has been on your land for 10 years without paying rent, you cannot tell him to leave. Same goes for part of the land that the public walks on, if they have been walking on it for at least 10 years, you can't reclaim it.

[blackcab]

Sure, if you have a chanote it's 10 years for adverse possession. But that's not what avocadowangnamkeouw said.

The way I read their post, it was as if someone makes a mistake at any point and builds on your land then you are forced to suffer it.

Which of course is not true.

Indeed, if your neighbour builds on their land and it is too close to your land you can petition the district office to get their construction altered.