Scottish police investigate killing of Muslim shopkeeper

[Steely Dan]

Here is a good article covering the questions the press and politicians seem reluctant to ask.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/03/the-questions-nobody-wants-to-ask-about-asad-shahs-murder/

That there is a known problem with Muslim religious conservatives is illustrated by the fact that the police have advised his family not to give any information as to where they live, or they too might be targeted.

[uptheos]

No wonder Muslims never protest against atrocities committed against non Muslims!

[seedy]

Derogatory Post - with Picture - and Many Quoted Replies - Removed

Suspensions Given

[stevecm]

the death which is being treated as religiously prejudiced

I suppose it would be politically incorrect to treat it as a hate crime.

hate crime against your own, unheard of. Only white Christian males can do such a thing against another.

[7by7]

No wonder Muslims never protest against atrocities committed against non Muslims!

Except, of course. they do; frequently. As shown many times on this forum, but ignored by you and others because it doesn't fit your politics/prejudices.

[SgtRock]

Here is a good article covering the questions the press and politicians seem reluctant to ask.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/03/the-questions-nobody-wants-to-ask-about-asad-shahs-murder/

That there is a known problem with Muslim religious conservatives is illustrated by the fact that the police have advised his family not to give any information as to where they live, or they too might be targeted.

Hardly surprising.

Police probe Scottish mosque figures' links to banned sectarian group

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-35928089

[stillbornagain]

Because it's what the Guardian does, just like the BBC, bury's its head in the sand many many years ago in my old home town this is the sort of Muslim that lived there,those days are long gone,

I couldn't agree with you more. They were enthusiastic backers of Tony Blair and George Bush's war in Iraq. They turned a blind eye towards all the evidence that ran counter to what those 2 goons were claiming.

[Yunla]

I was very moved by the tributes from the local community, many of them customers at this poor gentleman's shop.

The thing that struck me about the tributes, from people of all races and beliefs, they all spoke of what a nice man he was, a true friend, a lovely chap. The tributes never mentioned his religion, they all just spoke about what a lovely man he was, and how he had been a very happy and uplifting presence in their daily lives for years. I think that his customers have a very good take on life and philosophy, they felt that his religion was nobody's business, and they didn't even mention it really. He was a lovely guy, and that is all that mattered to his customers. If only everybody in the world could share this perspective.

From reading this story, it becomes clear that he was a true local shopkeeper, in the very finest traditions, providing not only things that people want to buy, but also friendship and kind-hearted conversation, things that are the only rays of sunlight in some peoples' lives. Pensioners, disabled persons, or others who live alone, for some of them the only time they get some friendly banter is in the local shop. This man understood this, and he always had time for his customers. RIP.

Edited March 31, 2016 by Yunla

[geriatrickid]

That is the kind of Muslim the UK needs - i.e. one who is willing to integrate and respect the country he is so fortunate to have come to. RIP and hope they find the murderer soon.

Uhh, he's dead.

The man accused of his murder will most likely be out and about soon enough.

[F4UCorsair]

There is a serious problem with the islamic 'faith'.

Compare the shopkeeper's actions with a Christian wishing muslims happy ramadan, or other islamic celebration, and wait for the disenchanted Christians to show up and kill him. It won't happen.....not on religious grounds.

I know, I know, it's only a small minority who perpetrate these actions, but they do happen with muslims, not other religions.

Edited March 31, 2016 by F4UCorsair

[Steely Dan]

No wonder Muslims never protest against atrocities committed against non Muslims!

Except, of course. they do; frequently. As shown many times on this forum, but ignored by you and others because it doesn't fit your politics/prejudices.

Just as you persist in spinning a tissue of half truths and deflections. This is no 'tiny minority' of radicals, it is an attitude prevalent in Pakistan and exported through the Southern Asian based Deobandi sect, who control 45% of the Mosques in the UK. Nicola Sturgeon recently paid a visit to the main Glasgow Mosque in a show of solidarity either ignorant or unconcerned that the Imam of said Mosque regretted the execution in Pakistan of the murderer of the governor of Punjab state. The Imam praised the murderer for upholding Islamic blasphemy laws, the same ones the poor shopkeeper supposedly violated.

As a treat for you here is someone you can't label as 'far right', our very own former extremist turned house Muslim Maajid Nawaz (who makes some excellent observations).

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/04/06/another-dead-blasphemer-in-scotland.html

Over the years, in survey after survey, British Muslim attitudes have reflected dangerously high levels of support for enforcing “blasphemy” taboos. A 2007 poll found that 36 percent of young British Muslims thought that apostates should be killed. A 2008 YouGov poll found that a third of Muslim students claimed that killing for religion can be justified, while 33 percent expressed a desire to see the return of a worldwide theocratic Caliphate. A ComRes poll commissioned by the BBC in 2015 found that a quarter of British Muslims sympathized with the Charlie Hebdo “blasphemy” attacks.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Steely Dan

[SgtRock]

It would appear that there is a severe problem with Glasgow Central Mosque.

A prominent human rights lawyer has said he received death threats after calling for unity within Scotland’s Muslim community. Aamer Anwar said he was taking the threats from “fanatics” extremely seriously and that police were investigating.

Anwar chaired an event at Glasgow central mosque last week calling for unity and condemning violence and extremism after the killing of the shopkeeper Asad Shah and the terrorist attacks in Brussels and Lahore.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/03/human-rights-lawyer-aamer-anwar-death-threats-scottish-muslims

[johnatong]

It would appear that there is a severe problem with Glasgow Central Mosque.

A prominent human rights lawyer has said he received death threats after calling for unity within Scotland’s Muslim community. Aamer Anwar said he was taking the threats from “fanatics” extremely seriously and that police were investigating.

Anwar chaired an event at Glasgow central mosque last week calling for unity and condemning violence and extremism after the killing of the shopkeeper Asad Shah and the terrorist attacks in Brussels and Lahore.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/03/human-rights-lawyer-aamer-anwar-death-threats-scottish-muslims

t would appear that there is a severe problem with Glasgow Central all Mosques in the UK.

Fixed it for you !

[7by7]

The first two of the articles used as sources in the Daily Beast article do not say what the questions actually asked were, and only one of those articles say how many people were questioned; the YouGov one which only asked 600 people. 600 out of approximately 2.5 million British Muslims; vey representative, not!

The third article, the poll about the Charlie Hebdo killings, says a lot more than Mr Nawaz quoted; most of it showing that British Muslims do feel British and do condemn killings such as the murders at Charlie Hebdo.

Of course, Mr. Nawaz has a political agenda, but in his condemnation of extremism, fanaticism and terrorism he does share the views of the majority of British Muslims and Muslims worldwide.

Nothing in the Guardian article suggests that there is "a severe problem" with Glasgow Central Mosque. Indeed, if there was such a problem they would not have held the meeting at which Mr Anwar spoke!

The threats against Mr Anwar, and therefore the problem, come from a few isolated fanatics, not from the Mosque.

Yet again, the resident Islamaphobes highlight unrepresentative polls and isolated incidents to 'prove' that all Muslims are intent of establishing a worldwide Caliphate and subjecting all of us to Sharia law.

Whilst they still ignore the far, far greater number of Muslims who have no such intentions at all. In the telegraph article on the poll after the Charlie Hebdo murders over 98% of respondents said that they were loyal to Britain. Of course, the Islamaphobes ignore that!

That is the difference between the Islamaphobes and the rest of us.

We know that there is a problem with extreme Islamism; but we also know that the vast majority of Muslims want nothing to do with it.

[Grouse]

So why is there so little attempt to integrate with the rest of our society

Why do they want to live by laws from the dark ages

My dislike is a personal opinion but I would like to make Muslims who do not fully integrate feel less welcome

Edited April 6, 2016 by Grouse

[arjunadawn]

It is the nature of these terrorist acts ad nuseaum that some posters join the thread to disassemble, reduce to isolated incidents, defend, make counter-accusations, defend, ridicule, disassemble... etc. It must be exhausting to apply sophistry to each and every act of islamic jihad in the news in order to suggest the meaning of such acts in a disingenuous way.

It is basically defending as a leaky faucet what is in actuality a torrent of religious death.

Edited April 6, 2016 by arjunadawn

[Steely Dan]

The first two of the articles used as sources in the Daily Beast article do not say what the questions actually asked were, and only one of those articles say how many people were questioned; the YouGov one which only asked 600 people. 600 out of approximately 2.5 million British Muslims; vey representative, not!

The third article, the poll about the Charlie Hebdo killings, says a lot more than Mr Nawaz quoted; most of it showing that British Muslims do feel British and do condemn killings such as the murders at Charlie Hebdo.

Of course, Mr. Nawaz has a political agenda, but in his condemnation of extremism, fanaticism and terrorism he does share the views of the majority of British Muslims and Muslims worldwide.

Nothing in the Guardian article suggests that there is "a severe problem" with Glasgow Central Mosque. Indeed, if there was such a problem they would not have held the meeting at which Mr Anwar spoke!

The threats against Mr Anwar, and therefore the problem, come from a few isolated fanatics, not from the Mosque.

Yet again, the resident Islamaphobes highlight unrepresentative polls and isolated incidents to 'prove' that all Muslims are intent of establishing a worldwide Caliphate and subjecting all of us to Sharia law.

Whilst they still ignore the far, far greater number of Muslims who have no such intentions at all. In the telegraph article on the poll after the Charlie Hebdo murders over 98% of respondents said that they were loyal to Britain. Of course, the Islamaphobes ignore that!

That is the difference between the Islamaphobes and the rest of us.

We know that there is a problem with extreme Islamism; but we also know that the vast majority of Muslims want nothing to do with it.

Sorry, not going down your usual diversionary wormhole with regard to polls, there are hundreds pointing in the same direction.

As for Mr Nawaz, so he has an 'agenda' does he? I suppose being a Muslim your stock accusation of Islamophobia was never going to stick was it?

The article I liked to couldn't be clearer, it is one of many showing the regressive influence of Pakistani Islamic extremists and their damaging influence on the Muslim communities in the UK. The Deobandi sect came about as a rejection of British colonial rule intending to replace all aspects of secular law with Sharia. One has to rhetorically ask what could therefore possibly go wrong when the colonization process was reversed? I'm sure the family of Mr Shah have their views on that one. Really Nawaz often uses the term 'regressive left' and is scathing as to how it demonizes moderate Muslims and apologizes for the Islamist far right (for reasons that far exceed stupidity).

Your 'tiny minority' dissembling has set sail long ago, but it would seem you are stubbornly stood on the pier awaiting its return.

Edit; In reply to Grouse regarding integration or lack of it, perhaps this is because 'many millions of Muslims are fundamentally incompatible with the modern world', as Tony Blair stated recently.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Steely Dan

[7by7]

And there we have it.

Despite all the overwhelming evidence regularly presented to them, the above three posters, and those of a similar persuasion, know that Muslims won't integrate, know that they all support Islamic terrorism, know that they all want to murder apostates and anyone else who they feel has insulted their religion, know that they all want to impose Sharia law on us all, know that they want to force us to eat only Halal food, etc., etc., etc.

How do they know all this?

Because people like Pamela Gellar, Jihad Watch, The Gates of Vienna, etc. have told them this is so and, apparently being incapable of thinking for themselves and discovering the truth, they, and those like them, have swallowed the "Some Muslims are bad, therefore all Muslims are bad" BS wholesale.

Swallowed it to such an extent that even when presented with the truth they simply refuse to believe it. Instead the accuse those who present the truth of being apologists, dissemblers, etc.

These people may be in the majority when it comes to posts on Muslim related subjects on this forum and elsewhere in cyberspace, but, fortunately, they are in a tiny minority in the real world.

Just as Muslims who do support Islamic terrorism etc. are also in a tiny minority in the real world.

That is not to say that there is not a real problem with Islamic extremism; there is and no one here has ever denied it; despite the feeble accusations thrown out by some when they cannot counter the truth.

But demonising the entire Muslim population because of the views and actions of a minority is not the way to deal with that problem.

Fortunately, those whose task it is to deal with it have the intelligence to know that.

Finally, it saddens me that the murder of a good, kind man; a murder caused by hate, is being used by people here to spread even more hate.

[saakura]

That is the kind of Muslim the UK needs - i.e. one who is willing to integrate and respect the country he is so fortunate to have come to. RIP and hope they find the murderer soon.

On the same tone, should westerners in thailand, especially those who never see any good in any thai's other than their wives, also need to integrate and respect the country they are so fortunate to have come to, since they came here on their own?

[johnatong]

And there we have it.

Despite all the overwhelming evidence regularly presented to them, the above three posters, and those of a similar persuasion, know that Muslims won't integrate, know that they all support Islamic terrorism, know that they all want to murder apostates and anyone else who they feel has insulted their religion, know that they all want to impose Sharia law on us all, know that they want to force us to eat only Halal food, etc., etc., etc.

How do they know all this?

Because people like Pamela Gellar, Jihad Watch, The Gates of Vienna, etc. have told them this is so and, apparently being incapable of thinking for themselves and discovering the truth, they, and those like them, have swallowed the "Some Muslims are bad, therefore all Muslims are bad" BS wholesale.

Swallowed it to such an extent that even when presented with the truth they simply refuse to believe it. Instead the accuse those who present the truth of being apologists, dissemblers, etc.

These people may be in the majority when it comes to posts on Muslim related subjects on this forum and elsewhere in cyberspace, but, fortunately, they are in a tiny minority in the real world.

Just as Muslims who do support Islamic terrorism etc. are also in a tiny minority in the real world.

That is not to say that there is not a real problem with Islamic extremism; there is and no one here has ever denied it; despite the feeble accusations thrown out by some when they cannot counter the truth.

But demonising the entire Muslim population because of the views and actions of a minority is not the way to deal with that problem.

Fortunately, those whose task it is to deal with it have the intelligence to know that.

Finally, it saddens me that the murder of a good, kind man; a murder caused by hate, is being used by people here to spread even more hate.

The day veiled black bin bags cease walking the streets of the UK is the day I will believe that 'muslims" wish to integrate.

[katana]

Asad Shah death: Man admits killing shopkeeper because he 'disrespected' Islam
Continued: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-35976958

[SgtRock]

HATE-FILLED Islamic extremists have praised the sectarian killing of shopkeeper Asad Shah.

A hardline Islamist website has published an article congratulating Asad’s alleged murderer, Tanveer Ahmed, for “another blasphemer sent to hell”.

A Facebook page has also been set up to pay tribute to Ahmed, who claimed this week that he killed Asad to protect the honour of Islam.

And the extremist Haq Baat website has hailed the alleged killer as a hero.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/preachers-hate-praise-asad-shahs-7712244#JIeBdO0JAbpYAmcD.97

I will refrain from making any further comment.

[Grouse]

Look, it's just my personal view but I dislike Muslims and everything they stand for

I don't really care what they believe in but if you want to live in my country you need to integrate into our society and social mores.

Keep your fancy dress at home and respect OUR laws. If you are unwilling to do that then go somewhere else.

I don't want to do anything extreme but I certainly would ban the bin liner outfits in public and I would ban halal meat on grounds of cruelty.

I would like to make life a bit more uncomfortable and dismantle the "gettos" in central Bradford, Rochdale and Leicester for example

Sorry, buts that's my view....

[Steely Dan]

Talking of integration here is a statement from the Muslim Council of Britain regarding Ahmadis.

http://www.mcb.org.uk/position-statement-the-muslim-council-of-britain-and-ahmadis/

Despite our clear theological beliefs, we note that pressure is mounting to describe this community as Muslim. Muslims should not be forced to class Ahmadis as Muslims if they do not wish to do so, at the same time, we call on Muslims to be sensitive, and above all, respect all people irrespective of belief or background.

There you have it, Ahmadis are viewed as heretics or blasphemers by the Muslim authority in the UK. Of course there are the usual sweeteners about being nice to people, which carry as much weight as the 'religion of peace' meme. Of course any Muslim in favour of Sharia law does not recognize the supremacy of UK law and hence some act exactly as they would in a Country governed by Sharia.

[jaidam]

Some news outlets now reporting that a facebook page has been set up praising the murderer in this case for defending islam's honor. It is getting widespread support from the muslim community in the UK and abroad. Zuckerberg will not be removing this - it is the right kind of hate. I think it is time to call it like it is. Islam is not compatible with western democratic lifestyles.

[7by7]

Steely Dan

I’m not going to bother countering the absurdities in your above post, anyone with an ounce of intelligence who actually reads the MCB page you have linked to, or even just your quote from it, can see your post for the garbage it is.

I will say, though, that once again you have shown that your avatar suits you perfectly. Like many of your outpourings previously, your post above could have come directly from the Ministry of Truth.


jaidam

Such messages, on Facebook or anywhere, are sickening and shameful. But to say that they are "getting widespread support from the muslim community in the UK and abroad" is completely untrue.

From the Daily Exppress; hardly a leftie, PC paper:

One of the sick messages, which contains a link to a news story about the killing, said: "Congratulations to all Muslims."

It was posted on the Anti Qadianiat (Tahafuz Khatme Nubuwwat) Facebook page and has been liked 54 times with two likes coming from the UK - one from a web user in Leeds and one from Birmingham

Although such posts are hateful and disgusting, as are the 54 people who 'liked' them, 54 likes in total, with just 2 from the UK, is not widespread support.

However much Steely Dan at the Ministry of Truth and those like him may try to persuade the gullible that it is!

[nausea]

What you need to ask yourself is how many Moslems do you really know. They are the politest of people in daily life, but you overstep the boundaries of their religeon and they go apeshit crazy. I shared an office with a Moslem woman, and she got some pork on her pizza, my God did she go apeshit crazy, it was scary. They're mostly wonderful people, they just have this religeous thing going on in the background. It's such a fundamental part of their identity I really don't know if it's compatitable with Western secularism in the long term.

[F4UCorsair]

This issue I have with islam is that when an atrocity occurs, the muslim leadership is conspicuous by their silence, no condemnation of the act, just silence.

I guess you could say that they would tire of being 'sorry', but I think that's a cop out. If they really do condemn the acts, then they should be doing so in the loudest voice possible.

What sickens me is our politicians pandering to muslims after an atrocity, and saying, "This is not about islam. This was a lone wolf attack".

When you have somebody dressed as a muslim, shouting islamic slogans/hate speech, carrying an IS flag, and killing people in the name of his religion, can you really say it's not about islam? I can't.

Edited April 11, 2016 by F4UCorsair

[Steely Dan]

Steely Dan

I’m not going to bother countering the absurdities in your above post, anyone with an ounce of intelligence who actually reads the MCB page you have linked to, or even just your quote from it, can see your post for the garbage it is.

I will say, though, that once again you have shown that your avatar suits you perfectly. Like many of your outpourings previously, your post above could have come directly from the Ministry of Truth.

jaidam

Such messages, on Facebook or anywhere, are sickening and shameful. But to say that they are "getting widespread support from the muslim community in the UK and abroad" is completely untrue.

From the Daily Exppress; hardly a leftie, PC paper:

One of the sick messages, which contains a link to a news story about the killing, said: "Congratulations to all Muslims."

It was posted on the Anti Qadianiat (Tahafuz Khatme Nubuwwat) Facebook page and has been liked 54 times with two likes coming from the UK - one from a web user in Leeds and one from Birmingham

Although such posts are hateful and disgusting, as are the 54 people who 'liked' them, 54 likes in total, with just 2 from the UK, is not widespread support.

However much Steely Dan at the Ministry of Truth and those like him may try to persuade the gullible that it is!

I take it you were not aware that the MCB statement I linked to was highlighted by Maajid Nawaz. He mentioned how the exact section I quoted spread sectarianism, division and the inevitable consequences. No matter how much

you bloviate or deflect the section quoted is the only section that bears any authority at all with conservative Muslims. It is their strict Koranic interpretation which leads to the murder of 'heretics' in Scotland or secular bloggers in Bangladesh, or blasphemers in Pakistan.

But you presume to know more than a Muslim reformer who (with great credit) speaks the truth. Indeed those on the liberal left with even a shred of honesty are quietly issuing a mea culpa. Tony Blair stated millions of Muslims are totally incompatible with the modern world. And now this, the man who popularized your favourite fictional word 'Islamophobia' has admitted he was totally wrong and Muslims do present far greater problems with integration than he ever imagined. Of course feel free to ignore the source and continue your pious and ill informed manner as civilization crashes down around our heads. The tragi-comic aspect of this is you and your ilk are doing active harm to would be moderates whilst empowering religious conservatives.

enjoy

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/04/10/thought-europes-muslims-gradually-blend-britains-diverse-landscape-known-better/

The former head of Britain’s Equalities and Human Rights Commission (EHRC), Trevor Phillips, has admitted he “got almost everything wrong” on Muslim immigration in a damning new report on integration, segregation, and how the followers of Islam are creating “nations within nations” in the West.

[stillbornagain]

Steely Dan

I’m not going to bother countering the absurdities in your above post, anyone with an ounce of intelligence who actually reads the MCB page you have linked to, or even just your quote from it, can see your post for the garbage it is.

I will say, though, that once again you have shown that your avatar suits you perfectly. Like many of your outpourings previously, your post above could have come directly from the Ministry of Truth.

jaidam

Such messages, on Facebook or anywhere, are sickening and shameful. But to say that they are "getting widespread support from the muslim community in the UK and abroad" is completely untrue.

From the Daily Exppress; hardly a leftie, PC paper:

One of the sick messages, which contains a link to a news story about the killing, said: "Congratulations to all Muslims."

It was posted on the Anti Qadianiat (Tahafuz Khatme Nubuwwat) Facebook page and has been liked 54 times with two likes coming from the UK - one from a web user in Leeds and one from Birmingham

Although such posts are hateful and disgusting, as are the 54 people who 'liked' them, 54 likes in total, with just 2 from the UK, is not widespread support.

However much Steely Dan at the Ministry of Truth and those like him may try to persuade the gullible that it is!

I take it you were not aware that the MCB statement I linked to was highlighted by Maajid Nawaz. He mentioned how the exact section I quoted spread sectarianism, division and the inevitable consequences. No matter how much

you bloviate or deflect the section quoted is the only section that bears any authority at all with conservative Muslims. It is their strict Koranic interpretation which leads to the murder of 'heretics' in Scotland or secular bloggers in Bangladesh, or blasphemers in Pakistan.

But you presume to know more than a Muslim reformer who (with great credit) speaks the truth. Indeed those on the liberal left with even a shred of honesty are quietly issuing a mea culpa. Tony Blair stated millions of Muslims are totally incompatible with the modern world. And now this, the man who popularized your favourite fictional word 'Islamophobia' has admitted he was totally wrong and Muslims do present far greater problems with integration than he ever imagined. Of course feel free to ignore the source and continue your pious and ill informed manner as civilization crashes down around our heads. The tragi-comic aspect of this is you and your ilk are doing active harm to would be moderates whilst empowering religious conservatives.

enjoy

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/04/10/thought-europes-muslims-gradually-blend-britains-diverse-landscape-known-better/

The former head of Britain’s Equalities and Human Rights Commission (EHRC), Trevor Phillips, has admitted he “got almost everything wrong” on Muslim immigration in a damning new report on integration, segregation, and how the followers of Islam are creating “nations within nations” in the West.

Yeah, Breitbart.com, that's a great source. And even the polling questions the article cited show that only on the question of homesexuality did the Moslems resemble the legislature of North Caroline. Actually not. While it may have been a majority, it was barely so. Mostly, it was a minority. Did you actually go to the poll and look at all the answers? This is from the Guardian:

"British Muslims are more likely to feel a strong connection to Britain than the population at large, according to polling, which also found that more than half think that homosexuality should be illegal...

The research suggests that 86% of British Muslims feel a strong sense of belonging in Britain, which is higher than the national average of 83%. A large majority (91%) of the British Muslims who took part in the survey said they felt a strong sense of belonging in their local area, which is higher than the national average of 76%.

Of those questioned, 88% said Britain was a good place for Muslims to live in, and 78% said they would like to integrate into British life on most things apart from Islamic schooling and some laws."

This seems hardly the major threat that you contend exists. And the fact that only 4.5 of the UK's population is Muslim makes it downright ridiculous.