Pattaya Suicides

[Avrock]

Greetings TV..what's up with all these jumping off balconies in Pattaya..it seems quite frequent also.. what might be the reason behind such incidents there ? Maybe the lifestyle that ends up in regrets & sense of failure.. I'm curious because Pattaya seems to be a desireable place for a dive by many foreigners..

[BudRight]

Before someone says that the rate is no higher than elsewhere, consider that between 1999 and 2009 the suicide rate in, say, California was 9.4 per 100,000.

There are about 40,000 expats in Pattaya, so if the rate was the same as California one would expect about 3.76 suicides per year.

There's probably that many per week in Pattaya, at least according to the Royal Thai Police, but let's take very conservative number of 1 per week.

Even Guyana, with the highest overall rate in the world, is only 44.2 per 100,000 per year, working out to one every three weeks if it had the expat population of Pattaya.

Whatever environmental factor would explain the difference, it would have to account for a rate about three times higher than the next highest in the world.

It seems much more likely that the RTP commonly mis-classify deaths as suicides when they are not.

Edited March 28, 2016 by BudRight

[kannot]

is it so hard to understand jumpers aint happy people?

[BudRight]

is it so hard to understand jumpers aint happy people?

Circular logic. 1 demerit.

Edited March 28, 2016 by BudRight

[daoyai]

Expat (retired) populaton demographics compared to general California population demographics holds a clue and then add the fact that many retired expats in Thailand are without family..another clue.

[colinneil]

A lot of ex-pats come to Thailand and get carried away with birds ,booze, partying etc.

Then they wake up to the real world, monies gone, alone depression kicks in.

What to do now? some end it by jumping, some die at the hands of others.

Police find it easier just to say suicide, then job done, whats next.

[chiang mai]

A lot of ex-pats come to Thailand and get carried away with birds ,booze, partying etc.

Then they wake up to the real world, monies gone, alone depression kicks in.

What to do now? some end it by jumping, some die at the hands of others.

Police find it easier just to say suicide, then job done, whats next.

A lot of tourists come to Thailand and get carried away with birds, booze, partying etc.

Late at night they'll often go out onto a balcony for a cigarette and, being slightly intoxicated and not realising the balcony railing is of a much lower height than back home, lean forward, lose control of their centre of balance and over they go.

Some older retired expats end it all by jumping, often in poor health they succumb to the temptation rather than endure the slow and painful death.

A difficult job to determine cause and motive, a UK Coroner may well issue an open verdict in such cases but I doubt that option exists here.

[DMC1]

I've personally known 2 guys who committed suicide in Pattaya. Neither were residents but chose to do it here:

German guy mid-forties recently lost his high paid job back home. Went out one night took a load of pills & then placed a plastic bag on his head until he suffocated. Suicide note written months before stating his intentions and found by his younger brother in Germany after the suicide. Lovely guy, never expected it.

English guy early twenties. Hanged himself in a sitting position from his hotel balcony rail. This was definitely related to Thai GF problems. Really sad, I remember having to help his close friend deal with the Embassy while still on his holiday & have to call his family members.

Edited March 29, 2016 by DMC1

[i claudius]

Retired guys come here , live alone ,not a lot of money ,health problems ,no safety net like the west , holidaymaker comes here meets young hooker thinks he is the love of her life and gets rooked(i am seeing it at the moment ,he is blind to it) cant take it , lots of lonely people here also many losers , you would not think it , but there are ,cant get on at home same here , its the easy fast way out the Pattaya high dive .

[morrobay]

If its not suicide by jumping then its suicide by total neglect of health:

Look around and you see these grey paper thin faced 60+ foreigners walking ( some barely ) smoking cigarettes.

And also look at the replacements - thirties, forties, fifties. foreigners walking around all day smoking cigarettes.

Ive never seen such a high concentration , about 80%, of cigarette smokers

And dont forget all these Asian males next in line smoking cigarettes all day.

Its not surprising.

Edited March 29, 2016 by morrobay

[uthaithanirules]

Police arent going to distinguish or even look for a head injury that occured moments before a balcony fall

[giddyup]

If its not suicide by jumping then its suicide by total neglect of health:

Look around and you see these grey paper thin faced 60+ foreigners walking ( some barely ) smoking cigarettes.

And also look at the replacements - thirties, forties, fifties. foreigners walking around all day smoking cigarettes.

Ive never seen such a high concentration , about 80%, of cigarette smokers

And dont forget all these Asian males next in line smoking cigarettes all day.

Its not surprising.

So, all these jumpers were dying from a smoking related disease? One of the most ridiculous comments I've read on Thai Visa.

[Hal65]

If its not suicide by jumping then its suicide by total neglect of health:

Look around and you see these grey paper thin faced 60+ foreigners walking ( some barely ) smoking cigarettes.

And also look at the replacements - thirties, forties, fifties. foreigners walking around all day smoking cigarettes.

Ive never seen such a high concentration , about 80%, of cigarette smokers

And dont forget all these Asian males next in line smoking cigarettes all day.

Its not surprising.

So, all these jumpers were dying from a smoking related disease? One of the most ridiculous comments I've read on Thai Visa.

Do you have statistics of the jumpers you speak of or is this based off of a guesstimate?

Edited March 29, 2016 by Hal65

[giddyup]

If its not suicide by jumping then its suicide by total neglect of health:

Look around and you see these grey paper thin faced 60+ foreigners walking ( some barely ) smoking cigarettes.

And also look at the replacements - thirties, forties, fifties. foreigners walking around all day smoking cigarettes.

Ive never seen such a high concentration , about 80%, of cigarette smokers

And dont forget all these Asian males next in line smoking cigarettes all day.

Its not surprising.

So, all these jumpers were dying from a smoking related disease? One of the most ridiculous comments I've read on Thai Visa.

Do you have statistics of the jumpers you speak of or is this based off of a guesstimate?

I doubt if any such statistics exist, at least in Thailand, but to suggest that smoking and suicides are linked is plainly absurd. I'm sure there have been people that committed suicide after being diagnosed with lung cancer or something else smoking related, but there are many other terminal diseases not related to smoking. Other causes are depression from relationship breakdowns, loss of income etc.

[JESSVANPELT]

One has to Understand the majority of the men who come here are not psychologically or socially fir to begin with, so it does not take much negativity in there lives to set them off. Consider this the place where the misfits come to die.

[lonewolf99]

I have to agree...so many smokers here... coupled with the lack of oxygen at altitude on a high balcony makes them woozy and ....woooops over they go.

There was an article I think on BBC world internet the other day ? about the most dangerous place for Americans abroad and it was Thailand ..also stated that something like nearly 400 people from the UK died here from high rise falls and motor accidents in one year....!!! If that is true that is basically everyday the UK Embassy has to report a death ?

I guess they would be the real people to ask about the stats rather what you read on the internet.... and maybe they won't say coz it would put them in a bad position with the present Gov's 20 year plan. To make every one happy, clappy and smiley.

Clappy in the hands, not the STD one....

Edited March 29, 2016 by lonewolf99

[morrobay]

If its not suicide by jumping then its suicide by total neglect of health:

Look around and you see these grey paper thin faced 60+ foreigners walking ( some barely ) smoking cigarettes.

And also look at the replacements - thirties, forties, fifties. foreigners walking around all day smoking cigarettes.

Ive never seen such a high concentration , about 80%, of cigarette smokers

And dont forget all these Asian males next in line smoking cigarettes all day.

Its not surprising.

So, all these jumpers were dying from a smoking related disease? One of the most ridiculous comments I've read on Thai Visa.

The OP : Pattaya Suicides. Read first line above ; suicide by total neglect of health ( not necessarily by jumping )

Having clarified that for you I would in fact now say there most likely is a correlation here:

Smoking degrades one physically and mentally ( you can do a search on this ). So someone in a physically/mentally degraded state is more likely to jump.

Edited March 29, 2016 by morrobay

[giddyup]

If its not suicide by jumping then its suicide by total neglect of health:

Look around and you see these grey paper thin faced 60+ foreigners walking ( some barely ) smoking cigarettes.

And also look at the replacements - thirties, forties, fifties. foreigners walking around all day smoking cigarettes.

Ive never seen such a high concentration , about 80%, of cigarette smokers

And dont forget all these Asian males next in line smoking cigarettes all day.

Its not surprising.

So, all these jumpers were dying from a smoking related disease? One of the most ridiculous comments I've read on Thai Visa.

The OP : Pattaya Suicides. Read first line above ; suicide by total neglect of health ( not necessarily by jumping )

Having clarified that for you I would in fact now say there most likely is a correlation here:

Smoking degrades one physically and mentally ( you can do a search on this ). So someone in a physically/mentally degraded state is more likely to jump.

Total rubbish ! Give me some proof, not conjecture. Quite a lot of the suicides reported involve either young men or women who are depressed over broken relationships. There are also many alcohol induced suicides, so unless you have some facts relating to smoking causing suicide, you're talking hogwash.

Edited March 29, 2016 by giddyup

[Avrock]

I've to agree with the smoking thing..it might not be the only reason but it can be one of the many causes...heavily intoxicated & going to the balcony for a cigarette..I used to smoke before & any smoker knows that the desire to smoke increases soon after a meal or after a few drinks...but then again suicidal tendencies should also be there for a man to jump & end his life..I'm not a big fan of pattaya..for a weekend sure if some friends are going...to live there permanently it's never going to happen..

[giddyup]

I've to agree with the smoking thing..it might not be the only reason but it can be one of the many causes...heavily intoxicated & going to the balcony for a cigarette..I used to smoke before & any smoker knows that the desire to smoke increases soon after a meal or after a few drinks...but then again suicidal tendencies should also be there for a man to jump & end his life..I'm not a big fan of pattaya..for a weekend sure if some friends are going...to live there permanently it's never going to happen..

You are talking about an accidental death. Who goes to their balcony after a meal and a few drinks and then decides, oh well, now that I'm here I might as well jump? I don't know what planet you guys live on, but you seem to know nothing about the real world and even less about Pattaya.

[i claudius]

One has to Understand the majority of the men who come here are not psychologically or socially fir to begin with, so it does not take much negativity in there lives to set them off. Consider this the place where the misfits come to die.

I don't know who you mix with but all the people I know are ordinary business people,family men and retirees,that just want to live the last of their time in the sun ,not huddled in a freezing flat or house back home.

[giddyup]

One has to Understand the majority of the men who come here are not psychologically or socially fir to begin with, so it does not take much negativity in there lives to set them off. Consider this the place where the misfits come to die.

Another off-the -cuff remark that has no facts to back it up.

[tropo]

Before someone says that the rate is no higher than elsewhere, consider that between 1999 and 2009 the suicide rate in, say, California was 9.4 per 100,000.

There are about 40,000 expats in Pattaya, so if the rate was the same as California one would expect about 3.76 suicides per year.

There's probably that many per week in Pattaya, at least according to the Royal Thai Police, but let's take very conservative number of 1 per week.

Even Guyana, with the highest overall rate in the world, is only 44.2 per 100,000 per year, working out to one every three weeks if it had the expat population of Pattaya.

Whatever environmental factor would explain the difference, it would have to account for a rate about three times higher than the next highest in the world.

It seems much more likely that the RTP commonly mis-classify deaths as suicides when they are not.

Once again - lies, damned lies and statistics.

For starters, where do you get the "conservative number of 1 per week"? Imo that number is way too high, even for Pattaya. A lot of Thai people commit suicide too, so if you add that number in maybe your number is more realistic. With the Thais it seems the suiciders are younger, heart broken people. They reincarnate, so they don't have to worry so much.

Let's be realistic. Most of the suiciders are old men in poor health. Take your California stats, only include men over 60 and let's see what you come up with. I'd also venture to say that a lot of the old men who suicide in Pattaya are fairly broke and can't afford decent medical treatment. They're also far away from family support.

If they have money, no problem, there's a Thai partner waiting for them to pass, and in some cases quite willing to lend a helping hand.

Edited March 29, 2016 by tropo

[Lozza]

If its not suicide by jumping then its suicide by total neglect of health:

Look around and you see these grey paper thin faced 60+ foreigners walking ( some barely ) smoking cigarettes.

And also look at the replacements - thirties, forties, fifties. foreigners walking around all day smoking cigarettes.

Ive never seen such a high concentration , about 80%, of cigarette smokers

And dont forget all these Asian males next in line smoking cigarettes all day.

Its not surprising.

Smoking? do you know the coroner, useless comment.. bored are we.

Edited March 29, 2016 by Lozza

[Hal65]

This whole thread is one big conjecture:

1) Comparing a sensitive population in Pattaya to a whole population in California

2) Taking an extremely high suicide rate in Patts as a given based on anecdotes and hearsay

3) Speculating to the causes without first establishing the facts

Unless we uncover some actual evidence to suggest that suicides in Pattaya are abnormal, this discussion is prone to hearsay bias.

[NanLaew]

Before someone says that the rate is no higher than elsewhere, consider that between 1999 and 2009 the suicide rate in, say, California was 9.4 per 100,000.

There are about 40,000 expats in Pattaya, so if the rate was the same as California one would expect about 3.76 suicides per year.

There's probably that many per week in Pattaya, at least according to the Royal Thai Police, but let's take very conservative number of 1 per week.

Even Guyana, with the highest overall rate in the world, is only 44.2 per 100,000 per year, working out to one every three weeks if it had the expat population of Pattaya.

Whatever environmental factor would explain the difference, it would have to account for a rate about three times higher than the next highest in the world.

It seems much more likely that the RTP commonly mis-classify deaths as suicides when they are not.

There's a lot less balconies in Guyana but don't let that logic get in the way of good conspiracy theory.

[chiang mai]

Before someone says that the rate is no higher than elsewhere, consider that between 1999 and 2009 the suicide rate in, say, California was 9.4 per 100,000.

There are about 40,000 expats in Pattaya, so if the rate was the same as California one would expect about 3.76 suicides per year.

There's probably that many per week in Pattaya, at least according to the Royal Thai Police, but let's take very conservative number of 1 per week.

Even Guyana, with the highest overall rate in the world, is only 44.2 per 100,000 per year, working out to one every three weeks if it had the expat population of Pattaya.

Whatever environmental factor would explain the difference, it would have to account for a rate about three times higher than the next highest in the world.

It seems much more likely that the RTP commonly mis-classify deaths as suicides when they are not.

Except:

A resident of California would have substantially different end of life care options than do those in Pattaya;

There are substantially fewer high rise western style condo buildings, with balconies, occupied by western expats in Guyana;

The difference between an accidental (falling) death and suicide is small in the sense it does not directly involve a third party, the difference between those two and murder is of course substantial but the latter would almost certainly have other associated clues. Does it really matter that much in statistical terms if suicides and accidental falling deaths are grouped together.

[amexpat]

If its not suicide by jumping then its suicide by total neglect of health:

Look around and you see these grey paper thin faced 60+ foreigners walking ( some barely ) smoking cigarettes.

And also look at the replacements - thirties, forties, fifties. foreigners walking around all day smoking cigarettes.

Ive never seen such a high concentration , about 80%, of cigarette smokers

And dont forget all these Asian males next in line smoking cigarettes all day.

Its not surprising.

It's amazing how many posters (smokers?) chose to believe this post implies that smoking causes balcony jumping suicides.

He said smoking IS suicide - a view shared by most medical institutions.

Astonishing lack of comprehension. Caused by smoking?

[chiang mai]

If its not suicide by jumping then its suicide by total neglect of health:

Look around and you see these grey paper thin faced 60+ foreigners walking ( some barely ) smoking cigarettes.

And also look at the replacements - thirties, forties, fifties. foreigners walking around all day smoking cigarettes.

Ive never seen such a high concentration , about 80%, of cigarette smokers

And dont forget all these Asian males next in line smoking cigarettes all day.

Its not surprising.

It's amazing how many posters (smokers?) chose to believe this post implies that smoking causes balcony jumping suicides.

He said smoking IS suicide - a view shared by most medical institutions.

Astonishing lack of comprehension. Caused by smoking?

Most if not all hotels and condo's have strict regulations governing smoking in the rooms, not so on balconies - so perhaps there is a link between smoking and falling from balconies.

[giddyup]

If its not suicide by jumping then its suicide by total neglect of health:

Look around and you see these grey paper thin faced 60+ foreigners walking ( some barely ) smoking cigarettes.

And also look at the replacements - thirties, forties, fifties. foreigners walking around all day smoking cigarettes.

Ive never seen such a high concentration , about 80%, of cigarette smokers

And dont forget all these Asian males next in line smoking cigarettes all day.

Its not surprising.

It's amazing how many posters (smokers?) chose to believe this post implies that smoking causes balcony jumping suicides.

He said smoking IS suicide - a view shared by most medical institutions.

Astonishing lack of comprehension. Caused by smoking?

Most if not all hotels and condo's have strict regulations governing smoking in the rooms, not so on balconies - so perhaps there is a link between smoking and falling from balconies.

We are talking about suicides, not accidental deaths, and I don't know why smoking a cigarette on a balcony would make someone fall off.