Crackdown On 'Coyote Girls'

[rockhardbkk]

You are forgetting that Thais are not going to say the words "we were wrong" or "we screwed up." Never will there be an admission of guilt.

[Choscura]

no, I crack you down.

[ramidin]

Well, that just got the half bar dancers in Pattaya sent back to Isan!!!!

Another unenforceable rule, and a way for the boys in brown to extort money.

I fully agree with HM, keep it away from temples, and family gatherings.

[Foggy Bottom]

...but...it seems to me that I heard that in times gone by there used to be young women dancing with bare breasts as a regular thing at temple festivals.....am I mistaken or has anyone else heard of this?

Chownah

?

[gbswales]

Several persons in this thread have inquired as to whether under 20yo's are children. In fact, they are. By Thai law, one does not reach the age of majority until 20, until which point every decision they make (including dating) is theoretically subject to parental approval.

"Steven"

What are you talking about? Even the age of consent in Thailand is only 15. This includes Male/Female sex, M/M sex, and F/F sex.

This is technically true, but there is an "age of majority" legally which is 20, until which time the parents must also approve of anything that happens to their children for it to be legal (technically).

"Steven"

According to CIA factbook, the age limit for voting for example is 18 and not 20 years.

As it is in the US, so why can't you drink in a bar under 21?

Quite a few countries have different ages for different things - in the UK age of consent is 16, marriage and driving 17 and majority (voting) is 18. However most countries in the world are gradually realising that people mature earlier these days and there is some argument that basic human rights should become involved here. The 15 age of consent is for Thais's only and doesn not apply if the partner is farang (even if the partner is 15!!) - at least thats what I have been told.

Most of the "clean up" in Thailand originated from pressure from the United States and other western countries - which is a tad hypocritical since much of the worst sexual exploitation began with the us troops holidaying from Vietnam -- err I believe Pattaya used to be a fishing village before then.

[DrDweeb]

First of all I happen to totally agree with the statement, regarding scantily clad dancers, made by Her Majesty. Coyote girl style dancing in the vicinity of a temple is inappropriate according to the Five precepts of Buddhism. I doubt the comments would have been so public if the dancing had taken place at a sports stadium or other suitable venue

THE FIVE PRECEPTS

All religions have some basic rules that define what is good conduct and what kind of conduct should be avoided. In Buddhism, the most important rules are the Five Precepts. These have been passed down from the Buddha himself.

1. No killing---------- Respect for life ( Ask politicians and police involved in slayings of drug dealers two years ago. Ask personnel involved in Tak bai incident))

2. No stealing--------- Respect for others' property (Ask Thaksin and his cronies)

3. No sexual misconduct-------Respect for our pure nature (Ask any Thai woman and man involved in sex industry)

4. No lying ----------Respect for honesty. (Ask any Thai politician)

5. No intoxicants----------Respect for a clear mind. (Ask any Thai citizen who drinks alcohol)

Western culture is always used as a scapegoat by Thais as having a negative and destructive influence on their culture. Really?

They (the culture vultures) seem to react by immediately blaming the decadent west. How about a little self examination?

Was there killing in Siam before westerners came?

Have land grabs, cheating, scamming the poor, acquiring vast wealth and paying no taxes,only been a recent phenomenon?

Have Thais only recently discovered sex and sexy behaviour? Who mostly uses Thai brothels? Farangs ?

Was there prostitution in Siam before western influence?

When did some Thais learn to lie their heads off? Did they import corruption from America or Europe? I don't think so.

Has alcohol use only been allowed since the first western tourists arrived? Ask any rice farmer.

Moderation in all things would be a good start here instead of overreaction to every problem.

Think things out before planning an event and think twice before banning something.

Certainly the intent of the comments made by H.M. The Queen was totally appropriate but the people in the administation need to think wisely before passing ineffective laws.

Absolutely. It was the LOCATION that was inappropriate - the age thing subsidiary.

Doing the same thing outside the Vatican, or at the Wailing Wall or at Mecca would probably invoke a less restrained and thoughtful response than that made by Her Majesty !

[DrDweeb]

Several persons in this thread have inquired as to whether under 20yo's are children. In fact, they are. By Thai law, one does not reach the age of majority until 20, until which point every decision they make (including dating) is theoretically subject to parental approval.

"Steven"

What are you talking about? Even the age of consent in Thailand is only 15. This includes Male/Female sex, M/M sex, and F/F sex.

Actually according to the Interpol site it is 13.

But hey, what would I know - I just read it in some other thread somewhere else and the link checked out as accurate.

[DrDweeb]

I am neutral on this issue and will leave it up to the Thai people to decide what they want...but...it seems to me that I heard that in times gone by there used to be young women dancing with bare breasts as a regular thing at temple festivals.....am I mistaken or has anyone else heard of this?

Chownah

Yes, ironically toplessness only became "immoral" after western influence.

The "christian west" and its prudish obsessions about the human body havbe a lot to answer for. It is one of the big downsides of western economic power, that it has forced a view of the human body and sexuality upon other cultures which is inapprpriate and IMHO wholly wrong.

A naked body is not "bad" per se, unless you are a bible bashing biggot.

[gjones]

"Doing the same thing outside the Vatican, or at the Wailing Wall or at Mecca would" .......

Yes that would be interesting, especially at Mecca! but that's why the Muslims are here - just pop down soi 3, same goes for the jews, god knows which soi they are, but as for the Catholics - ummm don't they do worst things?

[DrDweeb]

"Doing the same thing outside the Vatican, or at the Wailing Wall or at Mecca would" .......

Yes that would be interesting, especially at Mecca! but that's why the Muslims are here - just pop down soi 3, same goes for the jews, god knows which soi they are, but as for the Catholics - ummm don't they do worst things?

I am investigating Buddhism as a guiding set of precepts for my life from now on

[Ch4co]

I thought 'Coyote Girls' were at a certain A go-go place in Soi Marine Pattaya ?

Yeah, that place is special. Hope its not too near a temple.

Thailand a centre of Buddism?

[konangrit]

Quite a few countries have different ages for different things - in the UK age of consent is 16, marriage and driving 17 and majority (voting) is 18

Actually 16 for marriage, 18 without parents consent (except in Scotland, where 16 without parents consent is allowed), but your point is valid, which is why I think it's stupid to criticise Thailand for this alone.

Personally, I think if you're old enough to pay taxes, or die or kill for your country, then you're old enough to do anything the rest of the population can do. I don't mean to single out the US, as many other countries do similar, but their laws on drinking make them the most appropriate to point out. Can't buy alcohol until 21, but can die or kill in Iraq at 18....ridiculous. Some other ridiculous laws....age of consent in US 18, but if they go to another country under the age of 18, but over the age of consent in that country (UK 16 for example), they can still be prosecuted in the US. Thailand has similar laws, it is ilegal for Thais to perform in pornography, even if they made it in a country where it is legal. So before everyone criticises Thai law, remember what it is all based on!

[mitrapaap]

Unfortunately a lot of Thais, especially young Thais, think that all that comes from west is primarly good while they actually are not even familiar with the rules in the west. They would not realize that one sitting on Jesus Christ's head would be offending while they get upset when one sits on Buddha's head.

What I try to illustrate here is that among the quantity of bull shit they get fed with through western TV and movies, they are not able to distinguish what is acceptable and what is not really to be copied and/or imported as even in the west it would be inappropriate.

I see an increasing number of female students wearing skirts getting shorter and shorter so that one would be tempted to ask whether they are on their way to school or to "work". Trying not to let this phenomen escalate appears reasonable and understandable. I think Thailand is very generously offering sexual freedom in given areas.

I find it absolutely ridiculous that half naked chickie's are needed at every spot where some brand or non-brand product is sold or where otherwise people need to be attracted. Thais should realize that they have their own culture and their own values. It is normal that these values and do's and don'ts change (they do in the west), but it's moving too fast and going too far.

[summerT]

O.K folks this is getting a bit hear the knuckle, better calm it down a tad.

[Ch4co]

...but...it seems to me that I heard that in times gone by there used to be young women dancing with bare breasts as a regular thing at temple festivals.....am I mistaken or has anyone else heard of this?

Chownah

?

Its actually quite interesting this is happening because a similar situation is also occuring in Cambodia, a crack down against immoral activities (i.e. wearing a short skirts, adultery, etc..) that our not part of their culture? Funny thing is if these people actually took a look at their cultural history, they would realise it is a part of their culture. I see this as an increasing trend over the world where conservative governments are becoming increasingly more autocratic.

[mitrapaap]

...but...it seems to me that I heard that in times gone by there used to be young women dancing with bare breasts as a regular thing at temple festivals.....am I mistaken or has anyone else heard of this?

Chownah

?

Its actually quite interesting this is happening because a similar situation is also occuring in Cambodia, a crack down against immoral activities (i.e. wearing a short skirts, adultery, etc..) that our not part of their culture? Funny thing is if these people actually took a look at their cultural history, they would realise it is a part of their culture. I see this as an increasing trend over the world where conservative governments are becoming increasingly more autocratic.

I'm sure if you went back "a few more" years, you would find out that all humans walked around naked. I believe remembering that Italian art has plenty of naked female and male statues. I also remember that Italians are not very conservative in dressing, but still appropriate, at least I've never seen them showing their parts in public - unless those carved in stone. In other words, I don't think you make sense.

[sonnyJ]

What comes to old Khmer temples, they have topless girls all over the walls. What we must realise here is that Thais have basicly nothing to do with the Khmer culture nor religion of that time. There are no topless girls on the walls of thai buddhist temples.

Temple festivals have very little to do with religion though, it's entertainment. Huge parties around the temple grounds. And this was the rocket festival, so a huge event. I don't think anyone would go there if there would be no booze nor entertainment. I would imagine temple festivals are a big thing in the country side in Thailand, never seen one though. I did see some in the Shan States, in the Union of Myanmar. It was a huge party, people getting drunk everywhere. There were two major enterntainment options, ladyboy dancing or kickboxing. I chose the latter. Them both happened inside a walled area, so you had to buy the ticket first.

So I would conclude that this kind of enterntainment is a long going tradition in SEA. Also westernization has a huge influence to the whole cultures in general. That's what the people simply want. Guess they just got too far this time, and it is westernization but it didn't make it happen. Who could stop the time..

I could have another paragraph of the thai buddhism today, which is completely different from what it was say 2000 years ago in another country, but I think you got the point. Let's just say no Buddha statues nor temple festivals...

edit

As someone already mentioned what are the part time work options for these dancers in the future?

Edited October 30, 2006 by sonnyJ

[konangrit]

I'm sure if you went back "a few more" years, you would find out that all humans walked around naked. I believe remembering that Italian art has plenty of naked female and male statues. I also remember that Italians are not very conservative in dressing, but still appropriate, at least I've never seen them showing their parts in public - unless those carved in stone. In other words, I don't think you make sense.

It's quite strange how Catholic countries tend to be the most liberal, then again, when you think about it, they can do whatever they like and get forgiven on a sunday, so not that strange after all.

It's also surprising how many secular states are predominantly Roman Catholic.

[cwheat]

I don't see the issue the people on this thread are making. Her greatness does not want half dressed girls dry humping a pole out side of a budhist church. What is wrong with that?

I would like to see what you same people would say if the crackwhores from your country did sex dances outside of sunday service.

What is wrong with the government wanting to "crack down" on it?

The only thing odd about this story is the age limit. It should be just as much a "crack down" on 18 year olds sex dancing outside the temple as it is for say a 75 year old...

[RINGO38]

Crackdown on 'Coyote Girls'

Thai Coyote dancers

BANGKOK: -- In apparent response to Her Majesty the Queen's concern over a popular racy dance craze by "Coyote Girls", Thailand's Ministry of Culture is issuing a regulation prohibiting female students aged under 20 to become "Coyote Girls" and "Pretty Girls", young women usually featured in provocative clothing hired by merchants to promote their products.

Seeing TV footage of flirtatious dancing during a broadcast from the recent Rocket Festival in the northeastern province of Nong Khai, Her Majesty Queen Sirikit expressed concern through her secretary that "coyote dancing" seemed inappropriate at such an event and would tarnish the image of Thailand as a centre of Buddhism.

The ministry plans both short-term and long-term measures to deal with the matter. Immediately the ministry ordered heads of provincial cultural offices to coordinate local administration and police to strictly monitor and for inappropriate shows not to be allowed in public places, according to Ladda Tangsupachai, director of the ministry's cultural watchdog centre.

Some businesses had hired the young women to dress and dance provocatively at temple entrances and other places during busy festivals, it was explained. an activity and location which the Queen found inappropriate.

Ms. Ladda said that heads of provincial cultural offices must report to the ministry monthly and the ministry will report progress of its implementation to Her Majesty the Queen's secretary.

Meanwhile, Ms. Ladda said, the Ministry of Culture and the Education Ministry will enact a ministerial regulation banning students aged below 20 to work as Coyote Girls or Pretty Girls. The regulation will be effective immediately upon being issued.

As for the long-term solution, the director said, the ministry will hold a national workshop deliberating establishment of a National Cultural Fund to preserve and protect the Thai culture as well as to solve cultural problems in sustainable manner. The scheme will be put on the national agenda, she said.

-- TNA 2006-10-30

[sonnyJ]

...but...it seems to me that I heard that in times gone by there used to be young women dancing with bare breasts as a regular thing at temple festivals.....am I mistaken or has anyone else heard of this?

Chownah

?

Its actually quite interesting this is happening because a similar situation is also occuring in Cambodia, a crack down against immoral activities (i.e. wearing a short skirts, adultery, etc..) that our not part of their culture? Funny thing is if these people actually took a look at their cultural history, they would realise it is a part of their culture. I see this as an increasing trend over the world where conservative governments are becoming increasingly more autocratic.

I'm sure if you went back "a few more" years, you would find out that all humans walked around naked. I believe remembering that Italian art has plenty of naked female and male statues. I also remember that Italians are not very conservative in dressing, but still appropriate, at least I've never seen them showing their parts in public - unless those carved in stone. In other words, I don't think you make sense.

Well we could say that the cultural developement in SEA has been more continuous than in Europe, except a few short wars. We could also say that in Greek, home of the western culture, insest and pedophilia were commonplace and the norm to go with.

Problem here is again that government is starting at the wrong end again and wasting money if they would start to enforce some new laws... which would be amazing anyway.

[mitrapaap]

What comes to old Khmer temples, they have topless girls all over the walls. What we must realise here is that Thais have basicly nothing to do with the Khmer culture nor religion of that time. There are no topless girls on the walls of thai buddhist temples.

Temple festivals have very little to do with religion though, it's entertainment. Huge parties around the temple grounds. And this was the rocket festival, so a huge event. I don't think anyone would go there if there would be no booze nor entertainment. I would imagine temple festivals are a big thing in the country side in Thailand, never seen one though. I did see some in the Shan States, in the Union of Myanmar. It was a huge party, people getting drunk everywhere. There were two major enterntainment options, ladyboy dancing or kickboxing. I chose the latter. Them both happened inside a walled area, so you had to buy the ticket first.

So I would conclude that this kind of enterntainment is a long going tradition in SEA. Also westernization has a huge influence to the whole cultures in general. That's what the people simply want. Guess they just got too far this time, and it is westernization but it didn't make it happen. Who could stop the time..

I could have another paragraph of the thai buddhism today, which is completely different from what it was say 2000 years ago in another country, but I think you got the point. Let's just say no Buddha statues nor temple festivals...

edit

As someone already mentioned what are the part time work options for these dancers in the future?

Maybe they'll have to do some brain work instead of body shop

[Whitey]

I don't see what scantily clad girls have to do with selling just about any product other than scantily clad girls. I don't care if DTAC has scantily clad girls gyrating in front of a display if the dtac service sucks. same goes for girls selling Nescafe or Leo Beer or whatever. Of course, I may not be a typical consumer in Thailand, I suppose.

[wpcoe]

I don't see what scantily clad girls have to do with selling just about any product other than scantily clad girls. I don't care if DTAC has scantily clad girls gyrating in front of a display if the dtac service sucks. same goes for girls selling Nescafe or Leo Beer or whatever. Of course, I may not be a typical consumer in Thailand, I suppose.

Whitey, I'm with you on that one.

Once I was at Pantip Plaza and the ground floor had a dance troup of young ladies half clad in sparkly silver outfits performing for a computer manufacturer. I thought to myself: "How bad must their products be that they can't be sold on features, performance and reliability alone? How does a gyrating half-naked lady in any way persuade me to buy their computer?"

[wpcoe]

BTW, what are "Coyote Girls"?

[DrDweeb]

I don't see what scantily clad girls have to do with selling just about any product other than scantily clad girls. I don't care if DTAC has scantily clad girls gyrating in front of a display if the dtac service sucks. same goes for girls selling Nescafe or Leo Beer or whatever. Of course, I may not be a typical consumer in Thailand, I suppose.

Whitey, I'm with you on that one.

Once I was at Pantip Plaza and the ground floor had a dance troup of young ladies half clad in sparkly silver outfits performing for a computer manufacturer. I thought to myself: "How bad must their products be that they can't be sold on features, performance and reliability alone? How does a gyrating half-naked lady in any way persuade me to buy their computer?"

I believe they were wearing stockings, mini skirts and quite sexy tops. Outfits quite commonplace on any western street (in terms of the amount of material - not the silver/red colour).

Having "eye-candy" to pull in the punters is a strategy older than civilization itself. The Canon girls (of whom I believe you refer) were really cute and made me stop by. That is the intention.

You should go to a technology trade show in Asia sometime - it is eye-candy city.

I have no problems with this at all !!

I would have a problem of a pole dancer in my place of worship (if I had one which I do not) - so it is a question of respect and of what is apprpriate in a given lication

[sonnyJ]

BTW, what are "Coyote Girls"?

I've got this VCD a friend left at my place, Coyote Sexy Show Vol 1. 29 THB from 7/11.

Incredibly booring 1 hour dancing show. You can have it, just pay the shipping from Bangkok.

Edited October 30, 2006 by sonnyJ

[Neeranam]

Are 19 year olds children?

Yes.

[sanook1]

I don't see what scantily clad girls have to do with selling just about any product other than scantily clad girls. I don't care if DTAC has scantily clad girls gyrating in front of a display if the dtac service sucks. same goes for girls selling Nescafe or Leo Beer or whatever. Of course, I may not be a typical consumer in Thailand, I suppose.

Whitey, I'm with you on that one.

Once I was at Pantip Plaza and the ground floor had a dance troup of young ladies half clad in sparkly silver outfits performing for a computer manufacturer. I thought to myself: "How bad must their products be that they can't be sold on features, performance and reliability alone? How does a gyrating half-naked lady in any way persuade me to buy their computer?"

it gets your attention, you look and there, you buy...are you gay? of course it works that why marketing companies do this. maybe in thailand they should use 20 year old boys haha

[dantilley]

What is thai for crack down?

Seems to be a very popular saying.

Well, only by the writers of these headlines on ThaiVisa. Do a search through the forum on the word "crackdown" and you will find some truly comical uses of this phrase! But they usually have nothing to do with any official government announcement using the word. Essentially, in this context, "crackdown" just means any time when the government expresses their concern over something they disapprove of, and want to try an regulate or put a stop to.