Overstay Solution?

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Here's a letter from today's Nation newspaper, at least the online edition, 31 Oct 2006:

How about an amnesty for visa overstayers?

There was a proposal to grant some form of "amnesty" to those who have broken the law in respect to the "nominee" systems used by many foreigners to structure their companies here. Might it not be appropriate to grant an amnesty to all the many foreigners who have found themselves on visa overstays, many of whom cannot leave without either paying the fine of Bt20,000 at the airport or surrendering to the Immigration Department and having to be processed through the Immigration Detention Centre, with the consequential loss of everything they have in Thailand. This is also followed by a court appearance, possible blacklisting to prevent them returning, and the payment of a smaller fine in court. In addition they have to purchase a one-way (expensive) air ticket to their home country, where they may well find themselves in further hardship.

Many cannot afford the cost of leaving, having had to pay out so much after losing all their money in Thailand and being denied the opportunity to earn anything here without further breaking the law.

The hardship and humiliation of being treated like a hardened criminal by the immigration authorities procedures leaves nothing but a bad impression of Thailand. This is in turn passed around when the unfortunate gets home. Wouldn't it be in everyone's interests to let everyone clear their slate and start afresh? Or would this be too expensive for certain parties who make money out of the present situation?

If the authorities are serious about "cleaning things up" they should have an amnesty and allow those who are at present classed as illegal an opportunity to arrange everything so that they don't lose out, comply with the law without fear and leave with the opportunity of coming back.

Many language teachers who have Thai wives and families are in this terrible situation, due mainly to unreasonable and ever-changing rules and regulations. They have not earnt sufficient income to meet their obligations here and at the same time comply with the government requirements. They are not in the same position as their fellow countrymen who work here for multinational companies, with the associated protection and extraordinarily high salaries and benefits. Clean things up, yes, but show some respect and give people a fair chance to get their house in order without fear.

D Amaan

Bangkok

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Reckon such folks created the problem themselves, if they couldn't afford to work here legally to support their lifestyle and family, then they shouldn't have tried to stay. I guess I could support an amnesty if it provided for no maximum fine, but included a self-paid for departure out of Thailand. Continuted stay probably could not be permitted as that'd just lead to further work without work permit and getting back into debt.

Sorry about that, but thems the rules! Actually much more lenient rules to live legally in Thailand than in the U.S.!!

Mac

[sting01]

Who want to live in USA?

And why always speak about a remote North american country? Who is inerrested in it? Why not copare with the situation in the Low March of Cambresi, or maybe more relevant with the situation of the illegal migrants in the North Gatinois?

On the topic, amnesty would be great, but what after? Does the overstayer will still overstay? Does they will leave willingly? Waht about their familly and their students?

[kudroz]

if they couldn't afford to work here legally to support their lifestyle and family, then they shouldn't have tried to stay.

My thoughts exactly.

[dantilley]

I think it's one thing to stay in Thailand for however long working without a work permit, doing visa runs or whatever and it is fairly common practice. A different situation entirely is to start a family here when you are in the precarious position of working illegally and at the whim of the flimsy loopholes that can keep you here on tourist or other visas.

Regardless of the ethics / legal issues behind working illegally, at least it is only yourself you're putting at risk. To bring a wife and kids into the equation though is quite irresponsible I think.

[Firefan]

They must know the exact number of over stayers (not counting the ones sneaking over the borders of course) as a red light should pop up in computer when time of visa is up? Many are probably still living in the area they put on their arrival cards (most probably put in correct details as did not "plan" to overstay+we as humans tend to want to stick around where we feel at home).

Police seems resonably good at finding people that home countries want to persecute - so hunting down a lot of the over stayers should really not be that hard?

Amnesty? Not a bad idea really.

Cheers!

[george]

There is "amnesty" for overstayers. If you still have a valid passport, just exit trough Suvarnabhumi Airport, pay the 20K at Immigration on exit, and return to Thailand at a later stage.

[Firefan]

Valid point George - but for some here the 20k + a ticket home/out of another 40k or so is outside their budget. They are in fact caught here.

If the 20k was waived for a period it might convince some to at least cross a land border and go "legal". (hmm... for a while... ).

(here we can start a loooong discussion about WHY/HOW they ended in such a situation but that is not really the point of the thread).

Cheers!

[Noel]

Giving an amnesty to people who have already burnt any bridges they may or may not have had to their home country is essentially pointless in my view.

Knowing that they have nothing to go 'home' to is hardly going to be an incentive, fine waiver and one-way free ticket 'home' or not. Doubtless many will prefer to stay put in the hope they can remain under the radar.

It would seem that the Thai authorities are ostensibly addressing the problem by stemming the inward flow of potential overstayers or law-breakers which, however 'unfair' the strategy appears to be in some categories, does have some merit in general.

Moreover, anyone prepared to deliberately overstay in the hope of never being caught has to be a more than questionable entity in the first place.

I know such logic will not sit well with some, but what value do such types have for Thailand in the eyes of the Thai?

Fire away...

[Firefan]

Valid points Noel.

Cheers!

[cwilliam]

if they couldn't afford to work here legally to support their lifestyle and family, then they shouldn't have tried to stay.

My thoughts exactly.

Put them in jail,illegal is illegal.What don't you get about illegal?

[dsfbrit]

if they couldn't afford to work here legally to support their lifestyle and family, then they shouldn't have tried to stay.

My thoughts exactly.

Put them in jail,illegal is illegal.What don't you get about illegal?

In Thailand 'illegal' is not always illegal. If it were this thread below would suggest that all the farang lawyers would be 'arrested' by now (see item 39)- including the farangs working (with legal work permits I am sure) for the useful sponsors of this forum - Sunbelt.

Hey Sunbelt, I am not having a 'dig' at you, but as I said elsewhere I am just giving an example of how this term 'illegal' can be misused / misinterptreted as a black and white issue.

In Thailand things are rarely black and white and 'illegal' when relating to many issues is one of them.

It seems to me that many things that are illegal in Thailand are never enforced. Then the Thai authorities suddenly decide to have a 'crackdown' for 2 weeks or so, nothing much seems to happen - then they announce the crackdown was a great success and life goes on as before.

How can anyone really take this seriously as a deterrent.

Mind you 'overstay' would seem to be pretty much an illegal activity in my opinion.

Although I believe if an overstayer goes to Immigration and pays before he/she is found out - there

is no additional punishment apart from the fine?

So if you overstay and give yourself up and pay the fine then its not as illegal as if you get checked - in the street say - before you submit yourself and pay the fine.

I love Thailand - wouldn't live anywhere else - unless I have to

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=90291

Edited October 31, 2006 by dsfbrit

[sriracha john]

I would proffer that the Immigration Police are making inquiries to The Nation on whether or not there was a return address included in the Letter to the Editor for:

D Amaan

Bangkok

to make their work easier in tracking the overstayer.

[Gumballl]

Who want to live in USA?

And why always speak about a remote North american country? Who is inerrested in it? Why not copare with the situation in the Low March of Cambresi, or maybe more relevant with the situation of the illegal migrants in the North Gatinois?

On the topic, amnesty would be great, but what after? Does the overstayer will still overstay? Does they will leave willingly? Waht about their familly and their students?

Regardless of of one's personal opinion of the US, apparently there are still tens of thousands of people who want to immigrate to the US on a yearly basis... some do it legally, others illegally.

No other country can boast such a statistic, especially not Thailand.

The US continues to be the land of opportunity, and only punters that have failed in every aspect of life find the US to be undesirable. But for millions, it is a haven for becoming successful (do not equate being rich as being successful).

It is amazing that so many foreigners dislike the US concerning its foreign policy of waging wars, manipulating foreign governments, controlling economies (to a certain extent), etc, and blame the individual US citizen for these deeds.

In the US, 99% of the residents don't give one iota to what is going on in the rest of the world. They don't dwell on it at all. We wake up each day, go to work, make a living for our families, enjoy the benefits that the country offers, watch the nightly sporting events on television, etc. Trust me, the majority of US residents are not plotting wars or other mischievous deeds against other nations. The well-being of other nations barely enters our thoughts. We have our own personal agendas and problems to occupy our minds. As for the foriegn issues, that is why we have politicians.

I suspect the average Thai or other 3rd-world national is the same. They dwell upon what is important to them; their jobs and their families (not necessarily in that order). Only a small minority people in foreign countries swallow the vile propaganda that is spoon-fed to them by punters that can't accept their failures and thus need to blame the US (or other Western country) for every misery on the planet.

The bottom line is that it is a statistical fact that the US continues to be the most desirable location for people wanting to immigrate to attain better success with their lives. I'm not trying to put down other Western nations... they also have their fair share of wannabe immigrants... but nowhere near as many at the US.

P.S. Btw, it is my opinion that the US exerts its foreign policy to tilt the world in a certain direction, so as to preserve the standards of living back home in the US. This is an advantage that any powerful nation would undertake. Look thru your history books to see this has always been the case in the past with other nations. Maybe in the next century China will be doing this deed. It sure won't be Thailand or some other nation that does not have strong natural and financial resources.

[dantilley]

In the US, 99% of the residents don't give one iota to what is going on in the rest of the world.

The well-being of other nations barely enters our thoughts.

I could be wrong, but I think for many people this is one of the chief reasons for the dislike of the US...

[sting01]

Well, during the second Iraqui war I had some US clients who called me an anti patriotic person because I was french and was supporting my government. Funny joke indeed.

What I was trying to point out, is exactly what Gumball said : 99% of the rest of the world are not interested in USA, US policy (foreign or internal). Or maybe just to make a laught at it (count, recount ,re re re .... count).

Just I do not see why all have to be reliate or compared with USA. It's trully silly, I do not even think EU can be compared with USA. Why not compare Thailand with Wisconsin alone, or Wyoming?

About the ' the standards of living back home in the US ', I do not think people around the world wanmt to be over weight, touch by the correctness disease, or even speak only english (the average US citisen will speak american english with some words in spanish and it will be all; shall I compare with a dutch who speak fluently 3 or 4 languages for exemple?).

But that is OT ... up to a certain extent : laws that apply in one countries do not necessary apply in another one. Same can be say about moral, as overstaying is both a legal problem, and a moral problem.

Personaly I would never advice to overstay (too risky and it will also be followed by problem back home), nor I thnk an amnesty can be a good thing if the rules as they are actually are not changed. The real problem is not overstay or not, the real problem is WHY overstay? If the person is trap by some events in Thailand, yes it should be given to him/her a chance to make things right (actually it's the famous 20 000 bht fine). But someone overstaying because not able to get a real life on the long run will gain nothng with an amnesty, nor the thai society will do. I say so because I witnessed someone who taught english getting fired, then in huge financial problems (can not handle the visa run, not pay electricity), then found a new job, and who went to pay the fine ... So yes it's a kind of amnesty, and I do not see what to cahnge in that (maybe make it lower, or maybe payable in Sathorn directly ...).

Edited November 1, 2006 by sting01

[ovenman]

I would proffer that the Immigration Police are making inquiries to The Nation on whether or not there was a return address included in the Letter to the Editor for:

D Amaan

Bangkok

to make their work easier in tracking the overstayer.

Do you honestly think da man left a useful return address?