http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/907702-academic-jobs/Academic jobs

[Usernames]

3. - Ph.D. holders who are not full time academics and are often retired business people (business and other professions), have never done any research and have no intention to start.

As for number 3, I would say unlikely. At least from my perspective. And I've hired them, only to be deluged with student complaints about people telling "war stories," not knowing how to teach, and completely adrift in a classroom. Not to mention that research isn't separate from teaching, it's integral to it. Anybody in a classroom quite literally doesn't know what they're talking about if they don't keep current with the review of the literature in their field, which is the first stop in any research project. People who fail to do research in order to keep on the cutting edge of their field are the very definition of "dead wood."

Slightly misses the point! "Scholarly practitioners" as they are sometimes referred to are active practitioners in their field and are very useful to give an applied and real-world perspective. They complement the views of "Scholarly academics", who are not necessarily practitioners themselves but primarily focus on research.

If these people are permanently going of topic or don't understand the wider current developments, HR skills and criteria need reviewing. Similarly, if they are deployed at introductory or elementary level, management needs to do some serious re-evaluating.

Then what you're discussing is not actually considered to be of university content. It is vocational training.

[Morakot]

^^ Of course it would be "vocational training" if you consider those instructed for a DBA, DEng, MD, etc. taking up a vocation. I'm sorry to tell you, universities around the world, nowadays, have more than a faculty of theology or arts.

[scorecard]

Thai universities are desperate for PhDs. Any PhDs. They'll even sponsor people for online PhD programs of a dubious nature. They only want the piece of paper. That's all that counts here. You can go to Mahidol and Chula and see people with suspect PhD credentials and NO research record whatsoever. The international colleges are even more desperate, taking people who walk through the doors if they speak passable English for their pre-college (in one instance) and full time faculty appointments. And also peppering their divisions with division chairmen and program directors who don't even have PhDs or research records.

I don't totally accept your very negative summation.

Just one point - pretty much all universities today have a mixture of:

1. - Ph,D. holders who never / almost never teach, they are devoted to research in many disciplines and do often have a long list of books published, papers accept by recognized international journals etc.

2. - Ph.D. holders who do a lot of teaching and quite a bit of professional research.

3. - Ph.D. holders who are not full time academics and are often retired business people (business and other professions), have never done any research and have no intention to start.

Do a survey of masters students in most universities and I suggest you will find most students perhaps almost all students prefer for many subjects to be taught by group 3 above.

As for number 3, I would say unlikely. At least from my perspective. And I've hired them, only to be deluged with student complaints about people telling "war stories," not knowing how to teach, and completely adrift in a classroom. Not to mention that research isn't separate from teaching, it's integral to it. Anybody in a classroom quite literally doesn't know what they're talking about if they don't keep current with the review of the literature in their field, which is the first stop in any research project. People who fail to do research in order to keep on the cutting edge of their field are the very definition of "dead wood."

Don't agree with you on many points. enough said.

[Usernames]

Thai universities are desperate for PhDs. Any PhDs. They'll even sponsor people for online PhD programs of a dubious nature. They only want the piece of paper. That's all that counts here. You can go to Mahidol and Chula and see people with suspect PhD credentials and NO research record whatsoever. The international colleges are even more desperate, taking people who walk through the doors if they speak passable English for their pre-college (in one instance) and full time faculty appointments. And also peppering their divisions with division chairmen and program directors who don't even have PhDs or research records.

I don't totally accept your very negative summation.

Just one point - pretty much all universities today have a mixture of:

1. - Ph,D. holders who never / almost never teach, they are devoted to research in many disciplines and do often have a long list of books published, papers accept by recognized international journals etc.

2. - Ph.D. holders who do a lot of teaching and quite a bit of professional research.

3. - Ph.D. holders who are not full time academics and are often retired business people (business and other professions), have never done any research and have no intention to start.

Do a survey of masters students in most universities and I suggest you will find most students perhaps almost all students prefer for many subjects to be taught by group 3 above.

As for number 3, I would say unlikely. At least from my perspective. And I've hired them, only to be deluged with student complaints about people telling "war stories," not knowing how to teach, and completely adrift in a classroom. Not to mention that research isn't separate from teaching, it's integral to it. Anybody in a classroom quite literally doesn't know what they're talking about if they don't keep current with the review of the literature in their field, which is the first stop in any research project. People who fail to do research in order to keep on the cutting edge of their field are the very definition of "dead wood."

Don't agree with you on many points. enough said.

Probably because you have never held an administrative position and don't know the facts of the matter.

[Usernames]

^^ Of course it would be "vocational training" if you consider those instructed for a DBA, DEng, MD, etc. taking up a vocation. I'm sorry to tell you, universities around the world, nowadays, have more than a faculty of theology or arts.

DBA. Right. Now, I know where you're coming from.

[scorecard]

As for number 3, I would say unlikely. At least from my perspective. And I've hired them, only to be deluged with student complaints about people telling "war stories," not knowing how to teach, and completely adrift in a classroom. Not to mention that research isn't separate from teaching, it's integral to it. Anybody in a classroom quite literally doesn't know what they're talking about if they don't keep current with the review of the literature in their field, which is the first stop in any research project. People who fail to do research in order to keep on the cutting edge of their field are the very definition of "dead wood."

Don't agree with you on many points. enough said.

Probably because you have never held an administrative position and don't know the facts of the matter.

I belong to group 3, and at the several universities where I lecture at masters level here and abroad, I and similar professors, always get very high ratings on the student surveys conducted by the admin. teams for all the questions on the survey, conducted after the course has finished but usually before grades are published.

I'm also aware that Thai students (and in other countries) at masters level will very quickly complain (way before the survey) if the lecturer goes off topic etc., etc.

I'm also aware of masters and bachelor students quickly complaining about:

- The 'quality' of lecturing from group 2 professors - students often saying they have no idea what the professor is talking about.

- Total lack of response if any questions are asked / students ask for an example, the lecturer just changes the subject / lecturer gets angry when students ask for examples so that they can get clarity in their understanding.

- Professor just sits and reads from the textbook, no additional comments, no further explanations, questions not allowed - usually group 2 lecturers.

- At course registration time students avoid some lecturers, more often group 2 lecturers and in some cases the courses are deferred and offered in later semesters probably with a different lecturer.

[scorecard]

Thai universities are desperate for PhDs. Any PhDs. They'll even sponsor people for online PhD programs of a dubious nature. They only want the piece of paper. That's all that counts here. You can go to Mahidol and Chula and see people with suspect PhD credentials and NO research record whatsoever. The international colleges are even more desperate, taking people who walk through the doors if they speak passable English for their pre-college (in one instance) and full time faculty appointments. And also peppering their divisions with division chairmen and program directors who don't even have PhDs or research records.

I don't totally accept your very negative summation.

Just one point - pretty much all universities today have a mixture of:

1. - Ph,D. holders who never / almost never teach, they are devoted to research in many disciplines and do often have a long list of books published, papers accept by recognized international journals etc.

2. - Ph.D. holders who do a lot of teaching and quite a bit of professional research.

3. - Ph.D. holders who are not full time academics and are often retired business people (business and other professions), have never done any research and have no intention to start.

Do a survey of masters students in most universities and I suggest you will find most students perhaps almost all students prefer for many subjects to be taught by group 3 above.

As for number 3, I would say unlikely. At least from my perspective. And I've hired them, only to be deluged with student complaints about people telling "war stories," not knowing how to teach, and completely adrift in a classroom. Not to mention that research isn't separate from teaching, it's integral to it. Anybody in a classroom quite literally doesn't know what they're talking about if they don't keep current with the review of the literature in their field, which is the first stop in any research project. People who fail to do research in order to keep on the cutting edge of their field are the very definition of "dead wood."

"deluged with student complaints...." I seriously doubt that.

On the other hand perhaps you simply hired the wrong people. Some people are suitable for any given job, some aren't.

[scorecard]

^^ Of course it would be "vocational training" if you consider those instructed for a DBA, DEng, MD, etc. taking up a vocation. I'm sorry to tell you, universities around the world, nowadays, have more than a faculty of theology or arts.

DBA. Right. Now, I know where you're coming from.

What do you mean?

[LolaS]

^^ Of course it would be "vocational training" if you consider those instructed for a DBA, DEng, MD, etc. taking up a vocation. I'm sorry to tell you, universities around the world, nowadays, have more than a faculty of theology or arts.

DBA. Right. Now, I know where you're coming from.

What do you mean?

DBA is usa system

[sandbox]

There are times when this article comes across a little bit as Thai bashing but it also makes some perceptive comments about working in Thai Tertiary Education.


I picked up this link from somewhere, perhaps even Thaivisa, so apologies if it's been seen before.


http://kyotoreview.org/yav/dysfunctional-thai-academia/

[Morakot]

DBA is usa system

'DBA programs are offered worldwide. The majority, however, is offered in Europe (42 percent), followed by North America (28 percent) and the Asia-Pacific region (22 percent). 6 percent of the programs are offered in Africa and 2 percent in Latin America and the Caribbean. Most professional doctorates in management were founded in the last 10 years and more than half of them in Europe.'

http://www.dba-compass.com/Survey

[scorecard]

DBA is usa system

'DBA programs are offered worldwide. The majority, however, is offered in Europe (42 percent), followed by North America (28 percent) and the Asia-Pacific region (22 percent). 6 percent of the programs are offered in Africa and 2 percent in Latin America and the Caribbean. Most professional doctorates in management were founded in the last 10 years and more than half of them in Europe.'

http://www.dba-compass.com/Survey

And worth mentioning, all universities world wide have different levels of rigour as to what is finally accepted by the doctoral dissertation committee. Yes, some Thai universities are at a low level and there are some who operate at a high level. The exact same comment can be made about many countries including the USA.

Different point - I am an adviser to one such committee - a position set up by the insightful business school dean who had a personal philosophy that a doctorate today (any doctorate - Ph.D. or DBA) should provide value.

The dean's belief - In terms of business schools subject areas it should provide value in terms of capability and provide something which can lift performance.

I do have a Ph.D. and I do have nearly 50 years of operational and senior executive work experience across all of Asia and some western countries. The dean asked me to look at the business related dissertations and create some question and discussion points.

On several occasions I was invited by the dissertation committee chairperson to sit in the room at the final dissertation and when asked by the committee chairman (only when asked) I have asked the candidates to explain further, to clarify etc.

[Morakot]

I am an adviser to one such committee - a position set up by the insightful business school dean who had a personal philosophy that a doctorate today (any doctorate - Ph.D. or DBA) should provide value.

The dean's belief - In terms of business schools subject areas it should provide value in terms of capability and provide something which can lift performance.

This belief may be problematic, but I understand how this can be seen as the norm.

A doctoral thesis should foremost make a contribution to an existing body of knowledge, regardless whether this body is concerned with applied or theoretical issues.

If this contribution improves business performance that's good too; but making this a requisite is dangerous, as it could severally constrain research directions. Some brilliant doctoral theses in management--which I have reviewed--provide a critique of existing ideas of how we organise business in the contemporary world. Their contributions is a "tracing" how existing ideologies have come about that underline our current business practices. They don't change anything as such, but allow a serious systematic reflection of our doings as practitioners.

This is not better or worse--not more or less valuable--than a thesis that would allow to optimise performances. It's a possible path of research. But this is usually not the main concern for doctoral candidates at Thai business or management schools. Unlike in Western Europe and North America, people who embarking on a PhD or DBA in Thailand, don't intend to become academics who in the future have to publish in academic journals. They often are practitioners who are in for a "title".

I am a researcher in (healthcare) management with substantial practical fieldwork experience. In the end, I'm assessed by the actual publications in ABS-listed journals and not by the improvement of organizational processes that happened when working together with management practitioners during the ethnographic research phase. For me (and for many other academics), we're in a position where improvement is highly desirable but secondary.

[Rhys]

Thai universities are desperate for PhDs. Any PhDs. They'll even sponsor people for online PhD programs of a dubious nature. They only want the piece of paper. That's all that counts here. You can go to Mahidol and Chula and see people with suspect PhD credentials and NO research record whatsoever. The international colleges are even more desperate, taking people who walk through the doors if they speak passable English for their pre-college (in one instance) and full time faculty appointments. And also peppering their divisions with division chairmen and program directors who don't even have PhDs or research records.

P

Especially in English Departments.. however, some... Ph.Ds. become quite PO when the pet makes the same salary or more during the normal course of yearly evaluation increases..

[scorecard]

I am an adviser to one such committee - a position set up by the insightful business school dean who had a personal philosophy that a doctorate today (any doctorate - Ph.D. or DBA) should provide value.

The dean's belief - In terms of business schools subject areas it should provide value in terms of capability and provide something which can lift performance.

This belief may be problematic, but I understand how this can be seen as the norm.

A doctoral thesis should foremost make a contribution to an existing body of knowledge, regardless whether this body is concerned with applied or theoretical issues.

If this contribution improves business performance that's good too; but making this a requisite is dangerous, as it could severally constrain research directions. Some brilliant doctoral theses in management--which I have reviewed--provide a critique of existing ideas of how we organise business in the contemporary world. Their contributions is a "tracing" how existing ideologies have come about that underline our current business practices. They don't change anything as such, but allow a serious systematic reflection of our doings as practitioners.

This is not better or worse--not more or less valuable--than a thesis that would allow to optimise performances. It's a possible path of research. But this is usually not the main concern for doctoral candidates at Thai business or management schools. Unlike in Western Europe and North America, people who embarking on a PhD or DBA in Thailand, don't intend to become academics who in the future have to publish in academic journals. They often are practitioners who are in for a "title".

I am a researcher in (healthcare) management with substantial practical fieldwork experience. In the end, I'm assessed by the actual publications in ABS-listed journals and not by the improvement of organizational processes that happened when working together with management practitioners during the ethnographic research phase. For me (and for many other academics), we're in a position where improvement is highly desirable but secondary.

I respect your comments.

In the situation I mentioned the dean had a strong desire to improve Thailand's business professionalism and performance and also respected the pure approach to research etc.

The dean mentioned retired, the replacement dean changed the focus more towards "A doctoral thesis should foremost make a contribution to an existing body of knowledge, regardless whether this body is concerned with applied or theoretical issues."

Also worth mentioning, the new dean severely disliked the old one and was determined to change whatever the previous dean focused on etc.

IMHO ultimately both approaches are part of the puzzle.

I suspect all folks who are involved with academia know that it's often not a bed of roses in all countries, with plenty of snapping par for the course.

[SheungWan]

On 21/06/2016 at 6:39 AM, scorecard said:

I don't totally accept your very negative summation.

Just one point - pretty much all universities today have a mixture of:

1. - Ph,D. holders who never / almost never teach, they are devoted to research in many disciplines and do often have a long list of books published, papers accept by recognized international journals etc.

2. - Ph.D. holders who do a lot of teaching and quite a bit of professional research.

3. - Ph.D. holders who are not full time academics and are often retired business people (business and other professions), have never done any research and have no intention to start.

Do a survey of masters students in most universities and I suggest you will find most students perhaps almost all students prefer for many subjects to be taught by group 3 above.

 

No, I think he is referring to the growing scourge of so-called Professional doctorates which have become the coach and horses PhD's for those unable to put together a full length thesis.

[Morakot]

3 hours ago, SheungWan said:

 

so-called Professional doctorates which have become the coach and horses PhD's for those unable to put together a full length thesis.

 

Quite a generalization here... nothing to do with ability.

 

Weak comparison, two substantial praxis/ application oriented projects versus one research oriented project... Hence, EngD/ DBA are seen as equivalent to PhD almost everywhere. MD however is not equivalent to PhD.

[SheungWan]

11 hours ago, Morakot said:

 

Quite a generalization here... nothing to do with ability.

 

Weak comparison, two substantial praxis/ application oriented projects versus one research oriented project... Hence, EngD/ DBA are seen as equivalent to PhD almost everywhere. MD however is not equivalent to PhD.

 

Yes, well, the colleagues going down the professional PhD route always the walking wounded. Good luck with the hard sell, please do.

[Morakot]

15 hours ago, SheungWan said:

 

Yes, well, the colleagues going down the professional PhD route always the walking wounded. Good luck with the hard sell, please do.

 

What you're trying to say?

 

EngD and DBA are not meant for academics they are meant for practitioners in senior positions and possibly people who like to furnish their names with titles. If you are a scholar doing research than the PhD is the right choice.

 

Yet having said this, professional doctorates are not lower or easier than research doctorates; they are meant for a different group of people.

 

I neither have obtained such a professional degree, nor I'm "selling" any. If for some reasons you're interested in a rigorous programme of such nature, I recommend this one: http://bit.ly/2bhA4je

[SheungWan]

3 hours ago, Morakot said:

 

What you're trying to say?

 

EngD and DBA are not meant for academics they are meant for practitioners in senior positions and possibly people who like to furnish their names with titles. If you are a scholar doing research than the PhD is the right choice.

 

Yet having said this, professional doctorates are not lower or easier than research doctorates; they are meant for a different group of people.

 

I neither have obtained such a professional degree, nor I'm "selling" any. If for some reasons you're interested in a rigorous programme of such nature, I recommend this one: http://bit.ly/2bhA4je

 

I think we know what they are meant for. That's not what we are referring to. It is what they are increasingly used for, namely some academics in new unis (primarily trying to navigate themselves up the admin pole) plus private colleges overseas looking to navigate an 'easier' path to academic recognition as a potential money spinner.

[Morakot]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

 

I think we know what they are meant for. That's not what we are referring to. It is what they are increasingly used for, namely some academics in new unis (primarily trying to navigate themselves up the admin pole) plus private colleges overseas looking to navigate an 'easier' path to academic recognition as a potential money spinner.

 

I'm still not clear what this is all about.

 

You are talking about Thailand and there are academics without a PhD who want to become a Dean or something? They go for a DBA instead of a PhD...?  Why?

 

Or are you talking about why more professional doctoral programmes are on offer than research doctoral programmes? If so, the reason is that the majority Thai academics have PhDs from aboard. Doctoral programmes offered by Thai universities seem to cater for a local market, where potential candidates are not necessarily academics. Those who have missed the boat on scholarships abroad, or hadn't had the flexibility to go abroad because they already had a family,  or are outsiders from industry, might end up with a local degree, which incidently might be professional one.

 

It takes more or less the same time/ effort and (in the West) can be considerably more expensive than a PhD.

[LolaS]

On 8/25/2016 at 6:59 PM, Morakot said:

 

I'm still not clear what this is all about.

 

You are talking about Thailand and there are academics without a PhD who want to become a Dean or something? They go for a DBA instead of a PhD...?  Why?

 

Or are you talking about why more professional doctoral programmes are on offer than research doctoral programmes? If so, the reason is that the majority Thai academics have PhDs from aboard. Doctoral programmes offered by Thai universities seem to cater for a local market, where potential candidates are not necessarily academics. Those who have missed the boat on scholarships abroad, or hadn't had the flexibility to go abroad because they already had a family,  or are outsiders from industry, might end up with a local degree, which incidently might be professional one.

 

It takes more or less the same time/ effort and (in the West) can be considerably more expensive than a PhD.

 

you dont need PhD to become dean in Thailand, and I think almost elsewhere

 

[Morakot]

On 24/09/2016 at 0:29 PM, LolaS said:

become dean

 

Becoming dean = Thankless task!

[SheungWan]

15 hours ago, Morakot said:

 

Becoming dean = Thankless task!

 

Deans certainly do have a certain self-regard.

[Morakot]

5 hours ago, SheungWan said:

 

Deans certainly do have a certain self-regard.

 

Here some useful tips for aspiring candidates... 

http://bit.ly/2d6CuSz

[LolaS]

If you want to progress in academia and you dont have high research publication record, holding executive function is one of them

[Rhys]

On 24/9/2559 at 0:29 PM, LolaS said:

you dont need PhD to become dean in Thailand, and I think almost elsewhere

 

 

Oh yes you do.... si.

[LolaS]

On 10/4/2016 at 0:48 AM, Rhys said:

 

Oh yes you do.... si.

 

one dean at uni on north, have only BA. can I link ? 

[Rhys]

Well then bro, good for that dude.  However, "generally" at the top 100 Thai universities (According to that ITF poll ?)   will require the deans to have a Ph.D. At my place they all do. 

[Morakot]

18 hours ago, LolaS said:

can I link ? 

 

Yes.