Springsteen cancels show because of North Carolina law

[Chicog]

Absolutely things were better left as they were. But I certainly oppose any law that gives men the right to enter the ladies room. It's one thing to let life's inconveniences work themselves out under the radar, it is another to give legal assent to perv's. Again, I am not calling any of these speciality groups pervs, I am talking about regular pervs)

Perhaps if you liberals weren't so hell bent on tearing up the fabric of society you would see that some things are better left alone.

Perhaps if you conservatives weren't so hell bent on persecuting people who don't fit your archaic biblical definition of a believer, you would see that some things are better left alone.

Except priests, with children, of course.

[Pinot]

So in a world with predators hiding in plain site (as in your article) you feel comfortable letting men in to the little girl's room because they say they are TG.

and of course we know a TG is an oppressed minority and incapable of any wrong action. So much so that even fake TG's are made morally superior by association.

I feel comfortable with transgender women, who were born men, being allowed into the little girls room.

As for your second absurd claim:

"We know a TG is an oppressed minority and incapable of any wrong action".

Substitute TG for Christian or Republican and you have hit the jackpot.

When in fact things could not be further from the truth.

There are already laws in place to protect children from adult molesters.

Although in the case of the church there seems to be an attempt to circumvent them.

You should add up how many anti Christian statements you have made in this thread. If any one her e has a hate agenda it's you.

As for transgenders using the bathrooms with little girls. Sure your fine with it, but that wasn't ever my point. I am speaking of the baby you have thrown out with the bathwater. The security of kids from straight predators masquerading as TG. When you come up with a plan for that then you can move forward. The needs of the many are currently outweighing the needs of the few.

"The security of kids from straight predators masquerading as TG."

The essence of all the wingnut nonsense in one sentence. Predators masquerading as TG? Why does the wingnut mind need to go there? That place, that scares the shit of you, doesn't exist.

The next door neighbor with an arsenal of weapons is fine but the non-existent TG predator is the one we need laws against.

Okay, we understand your position. The normal people on here all understand your position.

I suggest this thread be closed. Wingnuts need to be scared of terrible things in their imaginations and there is no talking them out of it.

[up-country_sinclair]

"The security of kids from straight predators masquerading as TG."

The essence of all the wingnut nonsense in one sentence. Predators masquerading as TG? Why does the wingnut mind need to go there? That place, that scares the shit of you, doesn't exist.

Sadly, this is simply not true.

[canuckamuck]

So in a world with predators hiding in plain site (as in your article) you feel comfortable letting men in to the little girl's room because they say they are TG.

and of course we know a TG is an oppressed minority and incapable of any wrong action. So much so that even fake TG's are made morally superior by association.

I feel comfortable with transgender women, who were born men, being allowed into the little girls room.

As for your second absurd claim:

"We know a TG is an oppressed minority and incapable of any wrong action".

Substitute TG for Christian or Republican and you have hit the jackpot.

When in fact things could not be further from the truth.

There are already laws in place to protect children from adult molesters.

Although in the case of the church there seems to be an attempt to circumvent them.

You should add up how many anti Christian statements you have made in this thread. If any one her e has a hate agenda it's you.

As for transgenders using the bathrooms with little girls. Sure your fine with it, but that wasn't ever my point. I am speaking of the baby you have thrown out with the bathwater. The security of kids from straight predators masquerading as TG. When you come up with a plan for that then you can move forward. The needs of the many are currently outweighing the needs of the few.

"The security of kids from straight predators masquerading as TG."

The essence of all the wingnut nonsense in one sentence. Predators masquerading as TG? Why does the wingnut mind need to go there? That place, that scares the shit of you, doesn't exist.

The next door neighbor with an arsenal of weapons is fine but the non-existent TG predator is the one we need laws against.

Okay, we understand your position. The normal people on here all understand your position.

I suggest this thread be closed. Wingnuts need to be scared of terrible things in their imaginations and there is no talking them out of it.

I know you won't watch it, but if you want to see abundant evidence that you totally wrong please check out post 303 above.

[canuckamuck]

Absolutely things were better left as they were. But I certainly oppose any law that gives men the right to enter the ladies room. It's one thing to let life's inconveniences work themselves out under the radar, it is another to give legal assent to perv's. Again, I am not calling any of these speciality groups pervs, I am talking about regular pervs)

Perhaps if you liberals weren't so hell bent on tearing up the fabric of society you would see that some things are better left alone.

Perhaps if you conservatives weren't so hell bent on persecuting people who don't fit your archaic biblical definition of a believer, you would see that some things are better left alone.

Except priests, with children, of course.

You used to have a decent argument style. You should look at how poorly you are doing here. I haven't said a single thing in this thread against anyone other than sex criminals. And your constant attacks are bigoted and without provocation. You are the only one bringing up religion here, and it is only because you haven't got an argument.

[Chicog]

This is a religiously motivated decision whether you like it or not.

It is a cure for a problem that doesn't exist.

[up-country_sinclair]

For some people I'm sure religion plays a role in this. However, I know that for many it isn't a factor at all.

[Chicog]

[rijit]

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Edited April 27, 2016 by rijit

[rijit]

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[rijit]

This is a religiously motivated decision whether you like it or not.

It is a cure for a problem that doesn't exist.

but making it an issue it gets them coverage and to 'believers' reinforces their 'steadfastness'

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[Scotwight]

This is a religiously motivated decision whether you like it or not.

It is a cure for a problem that doesn't exist.

I wouldn't be too hard on yourself for your anti Catholic feelings as stated above. A lot of people feel that way.

[lannarebirth]

I don't think I've seen this question asked here before, but after a transgender person has undergone gender re-assignment surgery, is there no mechanism whereby there public records can be modified to reflect their new gender?

[Jingthing]

Birth certificate? NO!

Driver's license or passport? Yes.

Another reason the N.C. law is insane.

[chuckd]

Birth certificate? NO!

Driver's license or passport? Yes.

Another reason the N.C. law is insane.

This link tells it all: http://www.lambdalegal.org/know-your-rights/transgender/changing-birth-certificate-sex-designations

Here us what it says about North Carolina:

-------------------------------------------------------------------

North Carolina

Statute: N.C. Gen. Stat. §§ 130A-118((4), (e) (2005).

Text: ( A new certificate of birth shall be made by the State Registrar when . . .

(4) A written request from an individual is received by the State Registrar to change the sex on that individual's birth record because of sex reassignment surgery, if the request is accompanied by a notarized statement from the physician who performed the sex reassignment surgery or from a physician licensed to practice medicine who has examined the individual and can certify that the person has undergone sex reassignment surgery.

Summary: North Carolina will issue a birth certificate reflecting the proper sex.

Edit in: Only three states will not issue an amended birth certificate.

Those states are Idaho, Ohio and Tennessee.

Edited April 27, 2016 by chuckd

[lannarebirth]

Birth certificate? NO!

Driver's license or passport? Yes.

Another reason the N.C. law is insane.

This link tells it all: http://www.lambdalegal.org/know-your-rights/transgender/changing-birth-certificate-sex-designations

Here us what it says about North Carolina:

-------------------------------------------------------------------

North Carolina

Statute: N.C. Gen. Stat. §§ 130A-118((4), (e) (2005).

Text: ( A new certificate of birth shall be made by the State Registrar when . . .

(4) A written request from an individual is received by the State Registrar to change the sex on that individual's birth record because of sex reassignment surgery, if the request is accompanied by a notarized statement from the physician who performed the sex reassignment surgery or from a physician licensed to practice medicine who has examined the individual and can certify that the person has undergone sex reassignment surgery.

Summary: North Carolina will issue a birth certificate reflecting the proper sex.

Edit in: Only three states will not issue an amended birth certificate.

Those states are Idaho, Ohio and Tennessee.

That seems pretty straightforward. So what's all the hulabaloo about?

[Jingthing]

Because it's totally fascistic to suggest a transgender person needs to physically change their genitals to change their gender IDENTIFICATION.

The law remains totally insane.
You can't have officers at bathroom doors checking birth certificates and groping people in the groin. Grow up and focus on REAL problems.

Another group being harmed by these laws, already facing harassment are people who do not identify as transgender at all but happen to present with AMBIGUOUS gender. There must be millions of Americans like that.

Edited April 27, 2016 by Jingthing

[lannarebirth]

Because it's totally fascistic to suggest a transgender person needs to physically change their genitals to change their gender IDENTIFICATION.

The law remains totally insane.

You can't have officers at bathroom doors checking birth certificates and groping people in the groin. Grow up and focus on REAL problems.

Another group being harmed by these laws, already facing harassment are people who do not identify as transgender at all but happen to present with AMBIGUOUS gender. There must be millions of Americans like that.

I'm not sure I follow. How would one be a transgender person if they didn't modify their genitals? That's what trans means. To go from something to something else. Don't follow the IDENTIFICATION aspect either. That's what a birth certificate, drivers license, passport etc. is; identification.

[Jingthing]

Because it's totally fascistic to suggest a transgender person needs to physically change their genitals to change their gender IDENTIFICATION.

The law remains totally insane.

You can't have officers at bathroom doors checking birth certificates and groping people in the groin. Grow up and focus on REAL problems.

Another group being harmed by these laws, already facing harassment are people who do not identify as transgender at all but happen to present with AMBIGUOUS gender. There must be millions of Americans like that.

I'm not sure I follow. How would one be a transgender person if they didn't modify their genitals? That's what trans means. To go from something to something else. Don't follow the IDENTIFICATION aspect either. That's what a birth certificate, drivers license, passport etc. is; identification.

Dude, you should get educated. Actually changing your genitals is an extreme choice. A huge percentage of trangender people never do it. Just because you are ignorant of basic facts about people who identify other than their birth gender and people similarly ignorant as you doesn't give the right to trash the CIVIL RIGHTS of that minority group. It's really nobody's business except sex partner or doctor to know the current state of a person's GENITALS.

Actually talk to some real life transgender people and one of the most common complaints they have is that TOTAL STRANGERS asking them what's happening in their crotch and if they haven't changed it, what's their plan. That's PRIVATE for them. Don't ask. None of your business.

I see you ignored the issue effecting so many more people than transgender people.

The gender ambiguous. For example butch lesbians. There must be millions of them in the U.S. They don't think they're men, they are not transgender, but many are mistaken all the time for men. Same with feminine appearing men who are not transgender.

The bigots now have open season to harass such people, demand I.D., call police when they see such people enter a bathroom.

Does that sound reasonable? No, it's not. It's a new flavor of scapegoating and it's not only against some GLBT people, many totally hetero people are also very gender AMBIGUOUS in appearance.

I get it though. This was never about actually THINKING through the CONSEQUENCES of this hateful law ... it was about right wing politics and SCAPEGOATING a certain unpopular and widely misunderstood minority group.

That's why people who care about CIVIL RIGHTS are resisting this law and all similar laws, even when they are not part of the targeted groups themselves in any way.

Edited April 27, 2016 by Jingthing

[lannarebirth]

Actually, two of my closet friends here in the states are butch lesbians. They're a hoot! They're married to each other, with one being a little butchier than the other. Their boy (from one's prior straight marriage) went to school with my daughter. He's a bit of a genius and astonishingly is the leader of a students for Trump group at our states largest university. Talk about a persecuted minority! Takes all kinds and i don't have a problem with any of it. Some people do however, and their rights are just as legitimate as the rights of someone who "feels" like a different gender.Though I worry about their mental health I've got a certain respect for someone who feels strongly enough about it to act on those feelings and commit to their new gender. That seems much less weird to me than someone that simply says they're a different sex, despite all evidence to the contrary.

[Jingthing]

I'm not transgender but I feel disgusted for their sake when people TRIVIALIZE their situation in the above manner. Ignorance hurts people.

http://www.apa.org/topics/lgbt/transgender.aspx

Transitioning from one gender to another is a complex process and may involve transition to a gender that is neither traditionally male nor female. People who transition often start by expressing their preferred gender in situations where they feel safe. They typically work up to living full time as members of their preferred gender by making many changes a little at a time. While there is no “right” way to transition genders, there are some common social changes transgender people experience that may involve one or more of the following: adopting the appearance of the desired sex through changes in clothing and grooming, adopting a new name, changing sex designation on identity documents (if possible), using hormone therapy treatment, and/or undergoing medical procedures that modify their body to conform with their gender identity

Surgery (of different kinds, not only genitals) is an OPTION. These are personal decisions for each individual. Also of course many people who want more surgery can't ever afford it.

Whether a particular transgender person has changed their physical GENITALS or not is their own damn business. It's not your business. And where people feel most comfortable when visiting a toilet is also their business.

In the picture in the CARTOON of the female to male transgender person, where that person OBVIOUSLY would fit better in a MEN'S TOILET, it makes ZERO difference whats in his pants, a vagina, a penis, or whatever (or indeed what gender is indicated on his birth certificate or driver's license).

So what's the plan. Police at every toilet to check I.D.s? Of course not, because the right wing never had a plan.

Edited April 27, 2016 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Some good information for the open minded who wish to LEARN more about the realities of transgender people.

Of no use for the extremists who have bought into the far right wing trans boogeyman scare tactics:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2016/04/27/how_to_respond_to_questions_about_transgender_bathroom_access.html

While transgender equality does not cause harm, transgender discrimination does. Trans people, particularly transgender women of color, are at enormous risk for harassment, bullying, and violence. Therigid bathroom codes can only exacerbate that risk and the anxiety that goes along with it, forcing people into places where they don’t feel safe just for the sake of laws and policies that have little connection to reality.

[Jingthing]

Now a toileting break for some truthiness style humor:

To all those lawmakers out there who are so obsessed with who is using what bathroom and what plumbing they've got downtown ...

NEWS FLASH

You're the WEIRDOS!

Edited April 27, 2016 by Jingthing

[canuckamuck]

JIngthing, you seem to be saying that when it comes to restrooms or change rooms, it is no longer acceptable to be concerned over who is using which bathroom?

Am I right?

[rijit]

JIngthing, you seem to be saying that when it comes to restrooms or change rooms, it is no longer acceptable to be concerned over who is using which bathroom?

Am I right?

^if there are private cubicle does it really matter?

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[Diplomatico]

"Debate" all you want.....it's a minority special interest group demanding special treatment by society. Ranks right up there with the delusional peanut allergy fanatics.

[Jingthing]

"Debate" all you want.....it's a minority special interest group demanding special treatment by society. Ranks right up there with the delusional peanut allergy fanatics.

Not special treatment to not be scapegoated by fanatical bigots. Nobody should have to show an I.d. to go to a toilet.

[up-country_sinclair]

"Debate" all you want.....it's a minority special interest group demanding special treatment by society. Ranks right up there with the delusional peanut allergy fanatics.

Not special treatment to not be scapegoated by fanatical bigots. Nobody should have to show an I.d. to go to a toilet.

These people are most certainly demanding special treatment. To state otherwise is ludicrous. They were born a certain gender, and they are still biologically that gender. They can take their "identity politics" to the Oprah Show, because normal people are not going to buy into that silliness. The target boycott is approaching 1,000,000 people.

These people should use the bathroom of their actual, biological gender. But instead they are demanding special treatment because of how they feel on a particular day.

It's quite simple really:

1. Use the bathroom that matches your genitals.

2. If you don't feel special enough, use a single stall bathroom. There are plenty of handicapped bathrooms available.

3. Hold it until you get home.

This was a classic case of over reach by strident political activists. Americans shouldn't and aren't going to put up with this sort of nonsense.

[Jingthing]

"By the way, Ted, nobody got molested."

Caitlyn Jenner Pees At Trump Hotel, Makes Video Directed at Ted Cruz

The transgender Republican star of I am Cait stands up against transphobic presidential candidate Ted Cruz.

http://www.advocate.com/caitlyn-jenner/2016/4/28/caitlyn-jenner-pees-trump-hotel-makes-video-directed-ted-cruz

Of more substance ...

Edited April 28, 2016 by Jingthing

[canuckamuck]

JIngthing, you seem to be saying that when it comes to restrooms or change rooms, it is no longer acceptable to be concerned over who is using which bathroom?

Am I right?

^if there are private cubicle does it really matter?

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

So why don't we just have unisex bathrooms? In fact why don't you campaign to make single sex bathrooms illegal. That would seem to be the next step.

Edited April 28, 2016 by canuckamuck