Thailand's 'F' word: Offensive or harmless?

[rogeroc]

I agree with you 100 percent Gecko. Don't you just love these "fluent" members. Their very posts show me they are fluent only in their own minds.

My son was laughing at some of the responses on here. He is Thai by birth, and as a luk kreung has seen and heard things from both sides of the tracks. Actually, he had some quite strong words for those who believe "farang" is offensive, basically being along the lines of being ignorant and probably not having any true understanding of the language or the culture. As to the use of "mun" being derogatory, he expressed disbelief that someone claiming fluency could be so ignorant.

Another example of a defender of the word 'Farang' throwing insults but this time through a 3rd party.

[Agent Sumo]

Personally, I've never spoken to anybody in real life who has a problem with the word. Most expats I know use it themselves. It seems to be a Thaivisa thing.

When a white guy starts talking 'farang' in front of me, I tell him I find it offensive and ask him to stop.

No, you bloody well don't.

I do wish people would stop making things up to lend weight to fake indignation

[GarryP]

I agree with you 100 percent Gecko. Don't you just love these "fluent" members. Their very posts show me they are fluent only in their own minds.

My son was laughing at some of the responses on here. He is Thai by birth, and as a luk kreung has seen and heard things from both sides of the tracks. Actually, he had some quite strong words for those who believe "farang" is offensive, basically being along the lines of being ignorant and probably not having any true understanding of the language or the culture. As to the use of "mun" being derogatory, he expressed disbelief that someone claiming fluency could be so ignorant.

Another example of a defender of the word 'Farang' throwing insults but this time through a 3rd party.

I was stating a fact. The poster in question is clearly not fluent, yet he claims he is. He cannot even get the use of "mun" correct. So how can one be expected to accept his interpretation of the word "farang" without question.

My son, who is a native speaker of the language simply agreed with me but used stronger language to get his point across, language which I thought should be toned down when putting fingers to keyboard. I even asked him if I was a farang and he said of course I was. Absolutely no disrespect whatsoever. Would you have me punish him and demand he never say that again? He would have some rejoinder ready to the effect that no matter what punishment I levied, I could not change the fact that I am a farang and will die a farang.

As to defending the word "farang", there is nothing to defend. It is what it is. A word used to describe those from a certain group of people with common characteristics.

[eldragon]

Could care less. Only time I find it annoying is when it's used in an otherwise English sentence. Like, "You're a farang. You pay more."

[Berkshire]

It is interesting to see how in this debate that those who have reservations about the word are generally polite in their arguments .On the other hand those who believe the word is OK (with a few exceptions) are very often offensive.

SB - 'I would rather they revel in their ignorance than educate them'.

Berkshire = uses 'deluded Farangs' amongst numerous other insults

Gecko123 - 'these morons'

Whether or not the word is offensive or not in derivation it clearly is disliked by a significant number (possibly around the 50% mark) of Westerners. Surely this should be a good enough reason alone for other Westerners and Thai alike (if they are aware of this) to avoid using it especially as it is as unnecessary as the word 'n....r'. Growing up in London 40 years ago this word, amongst others like 'd..o' and 'w..p' were used so frequently by Uk citizens who were quite frankly racist (including my parents). Credit to the UK for pretty well consigning these terms to the history books.

It's interesting that you feel the need to both attribute entirely inaccurate quotes to people and make up spurious statistics in order to support your argument. Both these actions somewhat undermine your bid for the moral high-ground.

Agree. He's being rather disingenuous in choosing only comments from people he disagrees with while ignoring insulting comments from those he agrees with. What's more revealing about this debate is the dishonesty of people who claim the word is offensive.

[rogeroc]

So demonstrate what you preach and quote away. Shame us !

[Berkshire]

So demonstrate what you preach and quote away. Shame us !

You can go back 16 pages if you'd like. But I can say that calling someone an "Uncle Tom" is not particularly nice. Courtesy of one of your kind.

[DrTuner]

I just asked my missus what she'd like to watch on TV. She said she feels like watching a farang movie. Should I be offended?

Try

Black Book, good WW2 movie in Dutch.

Amerlie, strange romance movie in French.

see what she thinks.

I'd go with Inglourious Basterds instead of Black Book if choosing that genre. Very farangy.

[BritManToo]

I just asked my missus what she'd like to watch on TV. She said she feels like watching a farang movie. Should I be offended?

Try

Black Book, good WW2 movie in Dutch.

Amerlie, strange romance movie in French.

see what she thinks.

I'd go with Inglourious Basterds instead of Black Book if choosing that genre. Very farangy.

But it's in English, and the whole point of the choices was to point out Farangs aren't a cohesive cultural group all speaking the same language.

As a white British person I probably have more in common with a black American than a white German.

This is where the Thai 'farang' concept becomes racist ignorance.

All white people can't be thrown in the same box, same as all black and all brown people.

White people using the word 'farang' is just sad and ignorant, they have had the educational opportunities to know better.

Whereas Thais can be excused to some extent, because of their poor educational system, forced on them by a corrupt and repressive ruling classes.

Edited April 16, 2016 by BritManToo

[DrTuner]

I just asked my missus what she'd like to watch on TV. She said she feels like watching a farang movie. Should I be offended?

Try

Black Book, good WW2 movie in Dutch.

Amerlie, strange romance movie in French.

see what she thinks.

I'd go with Inglourious Basterds instead of Black Book if choosing that genre. Very farangy.

But it's in English, and the whole point of the choices was to point out Farangs aren't a cohesive cultural group all speaking the same language.

Ermh...

[Kenny202]

I just asked my missus what she'd like to watch on TV. She said she feels like watching a farang movie. Should I be offended?

Try

Black Book, good WW2 movie in Dutch.

Amerlie, strange romance movie in French.

see what she thinks.

I'd go with Inglourious Basterds instead of Black Book if choosing that genre. Very farangy.

But it's in English, and the whole point of the choices was to point out Farangs aren't a cohesive cultural group all speaking the same language.

As a white British person I probably have more in common with a black American than a white German.

This is where the Thai 'farang' concept becomes racist ignorance.

All white people can't be thrown in the same box, same as all black and all brown people.

White people using the word 'farang' is just sad and ignorant, they have had the educational opportunities to know better.

Whereas Thais can be excused to some extent, because of their poor educational system, forced on them by a corrupt and repressive ruling classes.

it's ignorance according to our western values. I'm sure we're ignorant to many of their paradigms too

[Kenny202]

I just asked my missus what she'd like to watch on TV. She said she feels like watching a farang movie. Should I be offended?

Try

Black Book, good WW2 movie in Dutch.

Amerlie, strange romance movie in French.

see what she thinks.

I'd go with Inglourious Basterds instead of Black Book if choosing that genre. Very farangy.

Farangy! Now your really going to pss them off haha. Maybe farang just is a collective word for foreigner. Foreigner isn't offensive is it?

[BritManToo]

it's ignorance according to our western values. I'm sure we're ignorant to many of their paradigms too

It's to white foreigners using 'farang' that I object, they have no excuse for racism.

As I said the natives don't know any better, and I don't have all that much to do with them, so what they say doesn't bother me, because I'm not interested.

Edited April 16, 2016 by BritManToo

[Kenny202]

it's ignorance according to our western values. I'm sure we're ignorant to many of their paradigms too

It's to white foreigners using 'farang' that I object, they have no excuse for racism.

As I said the natives don't know any better, and I don't have all that much to do with them, so what they say doesn't bother me, because I'm not interested.

life's too short BritMan. I'm sure foreigners don't use the word in an ignorant or racist way. More of a "when in Rome thing". I'm not having a go here, but if you go back and read ur last post it sounds a tad ignorant and bigoted. "White foreigners" "natives don't know any better" . You sound like an old colonial haha. Lighten up buddy and relax. We're all different with different views

[GarryP]

I just asked my missus what she'd like to watch on TV. She said she feels like watching a farang movie. Should I be offended?

Try

Black Book, good WW2 movie in Dutch.

Amerlie, strange romance movie in French.

see what she thinks.

I'd go with Inglourious Basterds instead of Black Book if choosing that genre. Very farangy.

But it's in English, and the whole point of the choices was to point out Farangs aren't a cohesive cultural group all speaking the same language.

As a white British person I probably have more in common with a black American than a white German.

This is where the Thai 'farang' concept becomes racist ignorance.

All white people can't be thrown in the same box, same as all black and all brown people.

White people using the word 'farang' is just sad and ignorant, they have had the educational opportunities to know better.

Whereas Thais can be excused to some extent, because of their poor educational system, forced on them by a corrupt and repressive ruling classes.

And people can see that you have more in common with a black American? Those commonalities are not visible to the naked eye, you know?

How are the locals to identify you in a group of others, Thais, Japanese and Chinese for example? I have asked before but no one has answered. How the hell do they know where you are from? So it is impossible to satisfy your sensitivities as they are unable to identify your origin. How are they to describe you in a way that is both natural and does not offend you? If farang is such an evil word, tell us what it should be replaced with.

Talk about condescending: "As I said the natives don't know any better". With comments like that, it is you who comes over as the racist. And then you go on to say you do not have much to do with them. Have you ever thought that perhaps your ignorance as to the meaning of the word is in part due to the very fact that you do not deign to spend time with Thais nor understand the intricacies of the culture and language.

[BritManToo]

How are the locals to identify you in a group of others, Thais, Japanese and Chinese for example? I have asked before but no one has answered. How the hell do they know where you are from? So it is impossible to satisfy your sensitivities as they are unable to identify your origin. How are they to describe you in a way that is both natural and does not offend you? If farang is such an evil word, tell us what it should be replaced with.

Talk about condescending: "As I said the natives don't know any better". With comments like that, it is you who comes over as the racist. And then you go on to say you do not have much to do with them. Have you ever thought that perhaps your ignorance as to the meaning of the word is in part due to the very fact that you do not deign to spend time with Thais nor understand the intricacies of the culture and language.

As I said, I don't care about the locals. But almost any foreigner could identify me as British after 1 sentence.

Not to mention I specified 'natives' (not a race) as opposed to 'Asians' (a race).

I know many Koreans (civilized and educated) and a few Japanese (also civilized and educated).

I have spent a lot of time in Thailand, I speak, read and write Thai within the boundaries of my needs, but choose not to interact on any level beyond 'commercial' with them any more.

'Within the boundaries of my needs' (as your comprehension skills appear iffy)

I can talk to a Thai doctor about my body and symptoms of any illness, but may have to look up specialized words.

(example fie lam tung = erysipelas, had to look that up last year)

I can discuss repairs to my scooter (example look been law lang = back wheel bearings)

I can order from a Thai menu and ask for most common items in shops, although usually I have to write it down as shop assistants often refuse to talk Thai with foreigners. But agree my Thai spelling is poor, I can never remember the correct tone marks.

I can chat in Thai about non specialized subjects, but no longer have any interest in doing so.

Edited April 16, 2016 by BritManToo

[SoiBiker]

Ah, the old classic - I speak Thai fine, but the locals don't listen properly!

[GarryP]

How are the locals to identify you in a group of others, Thais, Japanese and Chinese for example? I have asked before but no one has answered. How the hell do they know where you are from? So it is impossible to satisfy your sensitivities as they are unable to identify your origin. How are they to describe you in a way that is both natural and does not offend you? If farang is such an evil word, tell us what it should be replaced with.

Talk about condescending: "As I said the natives don't know any better". With comments like that, it is you who comes over as the racist. And then you go on to say you do not have much to do with them. Have you ever thought that perhaps your ignorance as to the meaning of the word is in part due to the very fact that you do not deign to spend time with Thais nor understand the intricacies of the culture and language.

As I said, I don't care about the locals. But almost any foreigner could identify me as British after 1 sentence.

Not to mention I specified 'natives' (not a race) as opposed to 'Asians' (a race).

I know many Koreans (civilized and educated) and a few Japanese (also civilized and educated).

I have spent a lot of time in Thailand, I speak, read and write Thai within the boundaries of my needs, but choose not to interact on any level beyond 'commercial' with them any more.

'Within the boundaries of my needs' (as your comprehension skills appear iffy)

I can talk to a Thai doctor about my body and symptoms of any illness, but may have to look up specialized words.

(example fie lam tung = erysipelas, had to look that up last year)

I can discuss repairs to my scooter (example look been law lang = back wheel bearings)

I can order from a Thai menu and ask for most common items in shops, although usually I have to write it down as shop assistants often refuse to talk Thai with foreigners. But agree my Thai spelling is poor, I can never remember the correct tone marks.

I can chat in Thai about non specialized subjects, but no longer have any interest in doing so.

My comprehension skills are fine. Could you please answer the question as to how you are to be identified?

"Not to mention I specified 'natives' (not a race) as opposed to 'Asians' (a race)." This does not qualify the statement "As I said the natives don't know any better". In this statement you are claiming the Thais are ignorant - plain and simple. Being pedantic as to the definition of "race" does not excuse you. Now I do not know any single word that would apply to a specific nationality, but you are certainly displaying your prejudices.

FYI Not once have I ever encountered a shop assistant who refused to speak to me in Thai. Perhaps that could tell you something about yourself.

[BritManToo]

Ah, the old classic - I speak Thai fine, but the locals don't listen properly!

And your old classic - I'm here for the temples and culture, I don't use Thai hookers.

[Kenny202]

Ah, the old classic - I speak Thai fine, but the locals don't listen properly!

And your old classic - I'm here for the temples and culture, I don't use Thai hookers.

Don't start SB on Hookers! :-(

[BritManToo]

In this statement you are claiming the Thais are ignorant - plain and simple.

Of course most Thais are ignorant, they haven't had much in the way of education or opportunity.

Are you claiming they aren't ignorant?

If I were a racist, I would be claiming Asians were ignorant, but Koreans and Japanese appear to be well educated.

(Don't know any Asians from other countries that well so can't be more inclusive)

But there appears to be a real educational problem with most local Thais. Which is sort of strange as Chiang Mai is a university town.

As you appear to know so much better, could you have a go explaining why I have formed such a poor opinion of Thai education, while appear to have good opinions of Korea and Japan?

Ever asked a random Thai how many weeks in a year? (or god forbid, how many days in a year?)

Now ask a random Korean, Japanese, German, Australian, Brit, et al the same question.

Edited April 16, 2016 by BritManToo

[SoiBiker]

I'm here because I like it here. Life's too short to spend any of it somewhere you don't like.

[Kenny202]

In this statement you are claiming the Thais are ignorant - plain and simple.

Of course most Thais are ignorant, they haven't had much in the way of education or opportunity.

Are you claiming they aren't ignorant?

If I were a racist, I would be claiming Asians were ignorant, but Koreans and Japanese appear to be well educated.

(Don't know any Asians from other countries that well so can't be more inclusive)

But there appears to be a real educational problem with most local Thais. Which is sort of strange as Chiang Mai is a university town.

As you appear to know so much better, could you have a go explaining why I have formed such a poor opinion of Thai education, while appear to have good opinions of Korea and Japan?

Ever asked a random Thai how many weeks in a year? (or god forbid, how many days in a year?)

Now ask a random Korean, Japanese, German, Australian, Brit, et al the same question.

there is no doubt even many university educated Thais have a poor education. I know many teachers and many know little of Thailand history or Geography...let alone the rest of the world. Senior teacher asked me if Australia was up or down Thailand. Same teacher didn't seem to know neighbouring countries of Thailand. Thailand biggest problem as I see it. They certainly arent encouraged to use any sort of thinking or questioning. But the education system here seems to be purposely bad ie keep em dumb. Same as mushrooms. Keep them in the dark and feed them BS. Give em plenty of cheap whisky and ciggies and enough to buy some chilli sauce. When I first came here my missus was growing Tapioca / casava. Had done for 10 years same as the rest of the locals. I asked her what it is used for....Blank stare...then she said "up to company. Shed been growing it for 10 years and never thought to ask what it was for haha Edited April 16, 2016 by Kenny202

[GarryP]

In this statement you are claiming the Thais are ignorant - plain and simple.

Of course most Thais are ignorant, they haven't had much in the way of education or opportunity.

Are you claiming they aren't ignorant?

If I were a racist, I would be claiming Asians were ignorant, but Koreans and Japanese appear to be well educated.

(Don't know any Asians from other countries that well so can't be more inclusive)

But there appears to be a real educational problem with most local Thais. Which is sort of strange as Chiang Mai is a university town.

As you appear to know so much better, could you have a go explaining why I have formed such a poor opinion of Thai education, while appear to have good opinions of Korea and Japan?

Ever asked a random Thai how many weeks in a year? (or god forbid, how many days in a year?)

Now ask a random Korean, Japanese, German, Australian, Brit, et al the same question.

Unfortunately, ignorance is not exclusive to the uneducated.

I have no idea and could care even less as to how you developed your opinion on Thai education. I do not believe it pertinent to the subject.

Does gaijin also get your juices flowing?

[BritManToo]

^^ So you agree with me 'Thais are ignorant'.

But you don't want to come right out and say it?

[GarryP]

^^ So you agree with me 'Thais are ignorant'.

But you don't want to come right out and say it?

I see comprehension is a weak point for you. It is a tongue in cheek comment that for someone who is supposedly educated, you are pretty ignorant.

You are tarring the whole population with your argument that Thais are ignorant because of a poor education. This is blatantly not true.

There are many ignorant people in this world and many of them will have had a very good education.

[BritManToo]

^^ So you agree with me 'Thais are ignorant'.

But you don't want to come right out and say it?

You are tarring the whole population with your argument that Thais are ignorant because of a poor education. This is blatantly not true.

There are many ignorant people in this world and many of them will have had a very good education.

I'm fairly sure I can include the whole lot.

The general seems to think it's OK to murder foreigners who wear bikinis, and he's right at the top.

The doctors I have met, don't seem to have much of a clue.

I stick by my 'How many weeks in a year?'

That's around a 95% fail rate with the locals in CM, degree or not, the other 5% can't number the days in a year.

There's always one or two exceptions I suppose, but I've never met one and I mix with doctors, lawyers, teachers (not really by choice).

Edited April 16, 2016 by BritManToo

[Kenny202]

^^ So you agree with me 'Thais are ignorant'.

But you don't want to come right out and say it?

I find ignorant offensive even though by definition it's not. Just me. Poor education system here yes. Kids not taught to question, wonder or dream...yes. but that has nothing to do with racism or the use of the word Farang.

[Mudcrab]

I have no problem with being called farang, BUT I do have one when referred to as an Alien by immigration.

Which immigration would that be?

Pretty well the whole world's immigration refers to non nationals attempting to enter their country as Aliens.

Ooops sorry I made the mistake of assuming you have actually been out of you country of birth,

[Mudcrab]

^^ So you agree with me 'Thais are ignorant'.

But you don't want to come right out and say it?

I certainly do not agree with you statement about Thais are ignorant.

Perhaps some Thais of the bar girl variety who left school at 12 years old who you have met may be.

My wife is university educated,a very funny lady whom I adore.

I especially love calling her the farang when we are in Australia. She laughs her head off as well seeing the irony.